Shades of gray

[Nomad]

This is probably kind of a touchy subject, and I wouldn't blame Doom_Dude for closing it.

Any way, this is a purely ethical question, and technically does advocate illegal activity, but I want to keep this purely hypothetical, so no links to warez. :P

If you own a game on a particular platform (say, PS2), and want it on another platform (i.e. PC), do you think it is unethical to pirate that game for your PC, or since you already own the same exact game on another platform, do you think that you should rightfully be able to have another version for another platform without paying for it?

I'm normally opposed to piracy for a variety of reasons, but something like this definitely falls into the shades of gray. Although I realize that different platforms may require completely different code, optimized for that particular platform's architecture, but essentially regardless of the platform it is the same exact game.

I think if you buy a game, you should have the right to obtain that software for whatever platform you wish to play it on. I find it slightly unethical on the developers and publisher's part to require payment for what is essentially the same game, multiple times for different platforms.

Although, for some games I might admit that it is worth it. I, for example, own GTA: San Andreas on both PS2 and PC; I bought the latter because my PS2 no longer functions--so overall I have spent close to, if not over $120 for the same game. It is a very fun game, and I definitly got my money's worth out of the PS2 version, and I am content with the playtime I have gotten out of it for PC.

But the point still stands. What do you guys think?

[blood imp]

Technically, you're "updating" your game for a new system. It's the same exact game, minus all your save files.

Indeed, it would be in shades of gray. On one side, you're pretty much getting a game for free. On the other side, you already own the game, therefor you are entitled to it, so they (the developers/publishers) are making you pay twice for something you already own.

I think it also would come down to the publisher for each individual system. If the same publisher "publishes" the game for different systems, then you should be able to obtain the game for all those systems for one payment. You've already payed them once, and now you're getting the same game, which you already own, so you shouldn't have to pay again.
If, however, there are different publishers for each system, then it's a bit different, since you pay one publisher, but the others would remain empty handed for the same game. So if there wopuld be different publishers, it would be fairer to them if you payed them seperately.

But overall, you already have ownership of the game, so you shouldn't have to pay for it twice.

On the subject of pirating, well, it IS illegal. Although it would be a fairer option for you... hypothetically.

[Aliotroph?]

You guys forget that the game is never the same. The PC and PS2 versions of Half-Life are very different games. Same levels and guns but they play differently. I'd happily fork out for that and so should you. It takes a nasty amount of coding to get that kind of stuff to happen.

What offends me is the companies think we shouldn't be able to copy and format-shift things that take no effort on their part. If my laptop has a copy of DooM and I want to downgrab a copy into my XBox to play Legacy I don't see a problem with that (not that I'd want to do it) because id doesn't have to put any work into that and they're not selling an XBox copy of that game. It's rather like how I reserve the right to copy pages of my Harry Potter books and wallpaper my house with them if I choose.

[blood imp]

Originally Posted by Aliotroph?

What offends me is the companies think we shouldn't be able to copy and format-shift things that take no effort on their part. If my laptop has a copy of DooM and I want to downgrab a copy into my XBox to play Legacy I don't see a problem with that (not that I'd want to do it) because id doesn't have to put any work into that and they're not selling an XBox copy of that game. It's rather like how I reserve the right to copy pages of my Harry Potter books and wallpaper my house with them if I choose.

Agreed. (10)

[Heidi]

Is it ok to steal a 40 inch Sony TV just because you bought 21 inch Sony TV? this freeloading rubbish doesn't fly in America.

[Nomad]

I fail to see the parallel of your argument to mine.

[rustyslacker]

It's not a very good analogy anyway, but it would be more like moving your TV into a different room or something.

[MR_ROCKET]

No, you sell your PS2, buy the game for your PC and plug your PC into the T.v. set

[Nomad]

I'd rather use the monitor. It's 20" widescreen while the TV is just regular 20", and is limited to 600x480 resolution. :P

[Aliotroph?]

NTSC TVs can do about 720x480 it seems. I dunno if games manage that or if they use 640x480. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

Format shifting is fine and should be accepted by all Americans with any sense of ethics. I stand by my argument that console games are not easy ports and are often very different from their PC counterparts though. Like I said, happy to pay the difference.

[ace]

I'm interested in shades of gray regarding over-the-line piracy protection methods such as Steam. I've heard of people who will buy legal retail copies of Steam games, then once they have them they'll get a cracked/pirated version so they aren't forced to run Steam when they play their games. Or the same with other games, so they don't have to put up with whatever over-the-top measures go with them.

Really, I don't see why Valve insists that these games require Steam to run. Sure, there's the ongoing argument, "bu-bu-but you can run Steam offliiiiiine!" Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that Steam is a resource hog. I happen to have a somewhat low-end computer, and when I'm already running these resource-intense games as it is, I don't like an unnecessary thorn in my side running in the background hampering performance. Steam should serve as an authenticator and an optional platform for purchasing and automatically updating alone, no more. I haven't taken such measures to do away with these but I sympathize with the people who have.

More on topic, how do you feel about cross-OS conversions like Mac/Windows conversions, Alio? They still deal with converting the program to a different language, but I think it's a bit more gray than console conversions, which have to take into consideration a completely different platform and interface altogether. It's probably a bit less gray when you consider older games which were converted for newer OSes (like Doom95, for example), but I don't think the difference is still as extreme, no?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Aliotroph?

NTSC TVs can do about 720x480 it seems. I dunno if games manage that or if they use 640x480. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

Format shifting is fine and should be accepted by all Americans with any sense of ethics. I stand by my argument that console games are not easy ports and are often very different from their PC counterparts though. Like I said, happy to pay the difference.

I mean hooking my computer up to it (through S-Video). It only supports 640x480 res.

[Aliotroph?]

Why would I care about a cross-platform conversion when I can run Windows on my Mac?

Yeah, I can see buying the Steam one and then hacking it to run without Steam. License terms against modifying your own copy of something tend not to hold up well in courts in most places. Would be like Scholastic telling you you can't draw little pictures on your Harry Potter books!