Reboot

[Falci]

I don't know why, but my system just keeps rebooting. It's completely random. It may happen 3 or 4 times in a row, it can be hours and hours without a reboot.

The only way to make it reboot without depending on randoness is when I enter Dos BOX and start playing Rise of the Robots 2. In this case it will surelly reboot in a couple of minutes.

It's been like that for eras, so I decided to buy some new parts to my pc. The guys at the info store where pretty sure it was the power source so, I changed it too (I also bought a new HD and some memory). I had to change the power source anyway, as it was 300 watts (I read it's nothing good for a Pentium 4) and it's already been on fire once (And was still working...)

The problem is, it wasn't the power source. Now it reboots the way described at the start of this thread (before it would reboot by itself very rarely). The guys from the store guessed it could be the memory, but after tons of tests they realised it wasn't. Actually the only way the system rebooted in their hands was through the DosBOX/Rise2 method.

A friend of mine thinks it could be the motherboard. His father seens to have had this same problem a while ago when he bought an used motherboard.

So... Anyone knows what the heck is happening? Is it really the motherboard? Or could it be something else?

[Looney]

There are viruses that do this.

[Inga-KX]

I know of a few sudden reboot problems, mostly related to double firewall booting or RPCSS.EXE call conflicts, but the possibilties are endless, every PC is a different world with equally different problems.

But this one sounds pretty much like damaged AUTOEXEC.NT_ and CONFIG.NT_ files. Try replacing them, unless you're under a OS that's not Windows XP.

[Falci]

Consider the fact my PC has been formated a few times since it was bought 2,5 years ago. Even now it has been just "formated", because I changed my HD.

So, it can't really be a virus or an error in a file. It is surelly hardware.

[Inga-KX]

If it was a damaged RAM, it would lockup, not reboot, so you can safely discard that. It can be so many things...

[Looney]

Consider this...
Did you go online to update windows the first time?

Did you Transfer all your old saved emails to your reload?

Boot viruses that effect the MBR (Master Boot Record) could cause this, The only way to solve it is to do a low level format and replace the MBR. Just reloading will not solve an issue with the MBR. Replacing the HDD will fix it, but if you added the old drive in as a slave.... you added the virus back into your system.

Could be a BIOS virus that is causing it, Reflashing the BIOS will fix it. All the reloading on the planet will not stop that from happening.

Either one of these opens you up to a virus or is a virus that reloading will not solve.

Yes, It could be a falty power plug on the Mother Board and not the power supply it's self. In that case, replacing the MB would fix it.

[Doom_Dude]

Originally Posted by Inga-KX

If it was a damaged RAM, it would lockup, not reboot, so you can safely discard that. It can be so many things...

I had a bad stick of ram. Comp kept rebooting randomly and would reboot within a minute of loading Morrowind. Changed the Ram and problem solved. Unfortunately random reboots can be caused by almost everything. Its a pain in the ass I know.

[Falci]

The guys from the store tested my memory pents individualy (even the one that they just sold to me) And all failed the DosBox/Rise2 test.

I'm very sure it ain't a virus because the random reboots increased after changing the parts, something I belive a virus wouldn't be able to do.

I'll try to persuade my father to buy me a new mother board, and I'll have to buy new memory too because the ones I have are Dimm and the mother board the guy offered me uses DDR.

I'll se if I can get a new processor too.

Altought I may end up not getting new anything.

[Tyberious]

Originally Posted by Looney

Consider this...
Did you go online to update windows the first time?

Did you Transfer all your old saved emails to your reload?

Boot viruses that effect the MBR (Master Boot Record) could cause this, The only way to solve it is to do a low level format and replace the MBR. Just reloading will not solve an issue with the MBR. Replacing the HDD will fix it, but if you added the old drive in as a slave.... you added the virus back into your system.

Could be a BIOS virus that is causing it, Reflashing the BIOS will fix it. All the reloading on the planet will not stop that from happening.

Either one of these opens you up to a virus or is a virus that reloading will not solve.

Yes, It could be a falty power plug on the Mother Board and not the power supply it's self. In that case, replacing the MB would fix it.

this is correct, I had a similiar problem, along with the bad stick of ram and whatnot. I am sure we all have our own stories about things like this. You might want to check inside your case for any capacitors that popped (black cyllenders, well they are metal with black sleeves over them). Bad capacitors are buldging, leaking, popped, have burn marks on them or are possibly bent. These have been known for reboots (if you guys remember the time that people been releasing capacitors with a bad formula in them which caused them to fail when introduced to high temperatures). Hopefully its not that because if it is you will either need to RMA the motherboard if its still under warrenty or buy a new one. Crack the case and give 'er a good look around, if you are too nervous then take it to a tech shop and tell em to look at it for you.

EDIT: you also forgot the notorious "voltage virus". Man, those things not only fuxor your hardware but there is a good chance you will nto get your data back. I fear a script kiddie with access to a virus generator and an arsenal of hard drive killers and voltage virus then I do a cracker with a personal dislike to my machines.

[Falci]

I hope my problem isn't THAT complicated...

Oh... and don't mind teaching me what is a capacitor... I'm in the 6th period of Eletrical Engeneering college...

But thanks for the other tips! The voltage virus thing I didn't know...

[Tyberious]

im not assuming your dumb or anything but over the years of helping people with computers, explaining things to people with room temperature IQ's and doing tech work I have to be very technical in explaining things. Otherwise I get the generic "your not helping" answer from the irate/incompatent customer which is irritating to say the least. Its a lot mroe annoying when they argue with you about stupid stuff and say "well my friend knows this" yeah? Well if you already know then why did you call me? I am the tech, I get paid to help you so either cooperate or don't call us. I am sure a lot of techs know what I mean, if I have to call one because the problem is way over my head, I try to be as nice as I can, be prapaired (having my computer on, error messages written down etc.) and follow directions (I find that quite a few people who call me can't do this.)

by the way yes, voltage viruses's exist. They aren't as much of a threat as they were in the past (yeah, im suprised too!) but I was unforionate enough to have some script kiddie with some extra time on his hands upload the damn thing onto my computer. I can tell it was a script kiddie because if it was done right I would have lost more then just my motherboard, my hard drive, my ram, my power supply and my video card. They do LOADS of damage. They communicate (atleast the versions I heard of) witht he bios and sends a request to windows to tell the bios to increase the voltage (computers already do this on the fly but not in hugh sums like these viruses request.) or the virus talks to the bios its self. Either way its "open that wallet ebenezer because you are goin shoppin for a new computer." Also if you are unfortionate to lose your hard drive like I did, don't worry about getting backups because its far too late now.

There are 2 viruses that I know of that do physical hardware damage. The (in)famous "hard drive killer" and the "voltage virus". Luckly thats all I experienced. The good news was it taught me a harsh lesson on reality, I decided to learn security protocols and locked my machine down tighter then a dwarf's ale purse (as the saying goes). I sure hope that is not the problem but since you mentioned MAYBE getting a new motherboard (along with other things) that shouldn't be a problem anyway after you get your new motherboard.

[Falci]

Tyberious, Ops! Guess I offended you, that was not what I meant to do. I know how painfull it is to deal with people who need you help and still think they know more than you...

I was just mentioning I knew what is a capacitor. Anyway, thanks for the tips!

And please cross your fingers or pray to help get the new parts!

[Tyberious]

oh heaven's no you didn't offend me! Just frustrated with irate customer calls, makes any tech want to slit there wrists at the end of the day. I sure hope they replace the phones fast in most tech support canters because the mute and speaker buttons get extra attention if ya know what I mean .

Its really annoying when a customer starts arguing with you about what is right, such as for example. An arguement I had with my friend who thinks he knows a lot about computers. This is the same guy who says "yesterday I programmed (read:INSTALLED!) a game in but now I get an error message and all is broke". For the sake of the arguement, I will name him MEL, since browsing around tech support horror story sites, that seems to be a popular name to describe the typical room temperature IQ, undereducated and overly arrogent so called computer know it all.

Me: I'm sorry but your system doesn't meet the system recommended requirements, thats why its slow. I am not trying to put down your system sir, but it just can't handle the software.
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MEL: Yeah! Well I bought this system 2 weeks ago so it should run it because this system is only 2 weeks old, and you are trying to tell me a system 2 weeks old can't play a game that came out about 6 months ago? I sure hope most techs aren't as stupid as you!
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Me: do you really want to lose all your data? Keep on if ya do, just be greatful I offered to look at your machine for free, I could very well charge you for labour and parts plus a diagnostic fee or I could just not look at your machine at all if you are going to use abusive language.
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MEL: ok, ok sorry! (as you can tell, he didn't really mean it.) What you said doesn'tmake sense, I think you are doing something wrong if it wont run on my compter.
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Me: not only is this a woefully underpowered system to even remotely run this game (celeron 2.3Ghz, 256MB of ram, I845G Motherboard, I845 Graphics card with about 8MB of main memory being used and a 4200RPM 20GB hard drive). This game requires a pentium 4 at 1.7Ghz, at the very least 256MB of ram and 512 Recommended and a 3D Graphics card which YOU don't have. Not only can this game not run on this computer, you mentioned that you had problems with this before so if you know it all then why are you taking the machine to me? Why did you come over here? You know why? Because I work on computers, I am a tech, I help people with their computer problems, you are just a subway sandwitch maker, I do this for a living. Please be a little more respectful next time and just be glad that I still consiter you a friend and have waved the fee it would have costed for me to examine this problem.
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MEL: What! Thats a bunch of crap! I bought this system 2 weeks ago and it can't run this game? Thats a bunch of crap. Why don't you just upgrade the laptop for me! You have spare parts! While you are at it download all the latest patches for my games, besides you have DSL.
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Me: (being offended at this time but still trying to be nice although about ready to use the almighty format on this guy's machine, I decide to resist.) First off it is more then 2 weeks old because those machines sit in warehouses for months before you order them and second, the architecture of that machine is old due to the low ammounts of L2 cache the big pipeline (the L2 cache needs to keep that pipeline active for performance to be great) plus at 2.3Ghz when there is a branch misprediction, its really going to suck for that 20 stage pipeline, second, you need more ram if you want to run your software faster. 256 is bare minimum now if you want to run more then solitare or browse the net. Thirdly im not young to upgrade your laptop with MY spare parts for FREE because it costs me money and also this laptop is a DELL laptop so I suggest you take it to them unless you want your warrenty to be void. Also I will NOT download stuff for you, I don;t care if you have a 56K modem, you can wait the 5 to 10 mins it takes to download your patches if they are about 5 megs insize. I pay my bills and I paid for MY DSL and did not buy it so people could mooch off my connection, if you want to use it then you are going to have to pay because I can't afford to give things out for free.
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(after calling DELL for him because he didn't know what he was doing, I found out you couldn't really upgrade the machine much without having to buy a better model. Apon telling him this he literally blew up at me at the mention of "more money".)
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ME: well I called DELL tech support and asked what they could upgrade you to and they said its recommended you buy a better model.
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MEL: WHAT! You expect ME to buy another laptop! Thats bullsh*t! I can't afford another laptop.
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ME: I said the DELL tech said you would need to buy one, not me. Also this is a capatalist market so if you really want something then open up your wallet ebenezer because you are goin shoppin'. By the way if you really want to play this game then you need a 3D enabled graphics card, this one can do 3D but very slowly besides, you can't upgrade it, its soldered into the main board.
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MEL: then why don't you just unsolder it and put another one in its place! I thought you knew everything!
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ME: you can't just Unsolder it and put in a new one. It doesn't work like that, if I did that it would destroy the motherboard and you wouldn't have a working laptop. Besides I don't know everything nor do I claim to, im sorry but my shirt doesn't say GOD on it.
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MEL: fine, i'll jsut download a better graphics card!
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ME: *laughing pretty hard att he ludicrus comment* You can't just Download a graphics card, if you could I would have the latest model already. A 3D graphics card is HARDWARE based.
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MEL: what! Thats bullsh*t! You shouldn't have to pay for a new graphics card, this game sucks! The SIM's Are better anyway, the graphics on this game suck anyway.
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ME: thats because in order for you to play the game in a semi playable framerate you have to lower all the detail, otherwise you would get a power point slide show presentationof the game which is not enjoyable. Also the game SIM's doesn't require much int eh way of hardware compared to this game. *looks through all of his sim's games he has* (including every expansion packa nd game that came out, he really seems to enjoy SIM's Hot Date and brags about this girl he created and fell in love with). I am sorry but you need to get a life, enjoy some sun, play something different, do something else then playing sims. There are better things int he world.
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MEL: you didn't help me at all! *picks up his laptop (dropped once and has a rattling CD drive which I dubbed "the machine gun drive") and walks out in a huff out of my house*
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ME: *mutters something about he should be glad he didn't waste his paycheck paying for this tech visit and should spend it on educational purposes while walking to get a drink, put on some loud music. At thsi point im suprised I didn't slit my wrists*

luckily this wasn't the worst tech support I have done but it wasn't by far the best. Sometimes its like talking to a child, no reasoning and tantrums assured. That is what frustrates me, you don't. People with any form of intelligence I enjoy being around because they have something intellectually stimulating to offer. Besides, stupid people irritate me even though I try to be nice to them.

[Looney]

I was away few a few days closing the lake house. Yes I did forget about that "Voltage Virus" Nasty stuff.

[Tyberious]

man, I remember how Livid I was when my machine was suddenly transformed into a smoking pile of slag. I wanted revenge and worked my ass off to earn my next pc but by the grace of (insert diety) I was graciously given a full PC set by my parents as a college gift which I gradually began to upgrade to fit my needs (and it still does more so then anything.) I decided instead of learning how to hack and finding that 12 year old punk ass script kiddie I decided to take the high road and study hacker behavior and protect myself that way by build a more secure PC and gradually changing and upgrading my security. My first major step was formatting my drive from FAT32 (no security what-so-ever) to a secure (but slightly slower) NTFS. The netted security bonus I had with read only and write protected files which I only had access to really helped me while I built my security fortifications in preperation for any oncoming script kiddie invasion that could have came (but didn't). I had things like trace trackers, firewalls, AV software and thats about it since my security setup was still primitive so to speak but it was good enough at the time. I have since then made sure EVERYTHING I can think of is up to date and locked down every part of my pc I could. Atleast my machine is secure enough until some high level black hat cracker from the UK (great place for hacking technology, I hear its better then what we have but this is based off fo hearsay and some news reports I read.) waltzes past my security just like it was as open ad a non optimized PC and either checks whats on my pc (if they are even interested after they look in and see nothing of interest) and leave or wreck it if they were feeling nasty enough.

All I can say is I am GLAD that voltage viruses aren't as prominent as they were in the past, man I remember how fuxored my pc was. Reporting half the ram and sometimes all of it, missing hard drives etc (before it died the day I got my new pc). That Intel (I845P) board was a trooper, it was as solid as a rock and tried its best to work as hard as it could to stay alive on me. It held out for a long time, just enough for me to get a new pc before it gave up the ghost. I still miss that PC. It was my first REAL gaming machine that had power.

im sure we all have stories but I better stop my senseless rambling before I get carried away (wait too late! ).