Doombuilder to support 8, 24, 32 PNG files

Tolwyn · February 9th, 2004, 03:12 PM

This relates to my last post about PNG patches.

Basically, you can now use PNG files as patches within XWE and "technically" create textures with these lumps.

Doombuilder will now read the PWAD as a bonafide texture PWAD and display in the texture list.

So, even though doom2.exe won't handle these, and XWE won't (yet) display the PNG files, Doombuilder WILL.

http://www.tolwyn.com/images/db_png.jpg

What you'll see in this image is a combination of Normal Doom patches/textures, 8 bit local paletted PNGs, 24 and 32 bit PNGs as well as PNG flats.

The color isn't perfect in DB's 3D view, but good enough to assist with Theme management and texture alignment and such.

You could still release a PK3 in the standard way, but this feature should/could now help with building the map with Doom Builder.

Woot!

DaniJ · February 9th, 2004, 09:59 PM

So no more place holders?

Woot indeed!

Tolwyn · February 10th, 2004, 08:22 AM

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

It took a lot of careful prodding at CodeImp to get this to happen.

Now, uh, we need to have a little chat with SkyJake about something...

Slide · February 10th, 2004, 08:35 AM

What would be good is to do away with PWADs alltogether and separate out all the relevant data within them into separate files within a PK3 - that would be really good as you you wouldn't need two different file formats when distributing models, deds etc... with your releases.

Tolwyn · February 10th, 2004, 09:36 AM

If you were making a JDOOM specific release, I agree; but the community doesn't have those standards yet, unfortunately.

DaniJ · February 10th, 2004, 09:47 AM

Well you can already mirror the benefits of the pk3 virtual folder structure within a wad. The issue here is whether it's possible for Doomsday to look for the external files as lumps in the wad.

Maybe it could be done by creating a lump with the exact same name as the standard lump but append it with a character.

(I haven't tried this but what would happen if you created a pnames resource in your wad that uses the virtual file paths as the lump names? It probably won't work though.)

Obviously Skyjake would need to change how Doomsday searches for it's "external" files...

If you set up your texture folders with the correct structure for Doomsday you could tell DoomBuilder to search this folder for textures (with the new external png support) so you can design with them directly, whilest being available to Doomsday for testing. Then when it comes to releasing it's a simple matter of packing up into a pk3.

To do the same in wad though would abviously need something similar to what I mentioned in para#1/2.

Slide · February 10th, 2004, 11:57 PM

Quote:

If you were making a JDOOM specific release, I agree; but the community doesn't have those standards yet, unfortunately.

As far as I know only Doomsday can use PNG's with alpha channels anyway - so it's already Doomsday Specific.

In my mind WADs are too much hassle and the sooner we don't have to rely on them the better - id abandoned them about 8 years ago now.

Tolwyn · February 11th, 2004, 10:00 AM

I'm with you 100% on that, Slide.
And I also agree on the 32 bit png thing.

But it's not just PNG files, I think paletted GIF, BMP, PNG, TGA, etc. would work too.

Slide · February 12th, 2004, 03:35 AM

One thing we should do is see if we can add the XG stuff to DoomBuilder - that would be a boost for Doomsday - I think it already supports a load of Legacy stuff so it would good.

Some auto scripting of DED's would be nice as well.

DaniJ · February 12th, 2004, 04:49 AM

Yeah. I got started on that a while back (entering all the XG functions into the script editor). It's still not very user friendly as obviously you can only use certain commands in each function and DB doesn't care what you insert and where.

Auto scripting of DED's would be very difficult to do in DB because it's just not designed for it. Personally I write them by hand but don't forget there is DEDman (skyjake's DED writing program) though I think it's a little outdated (missing some of the newer definitions).

Chilvence · February 12th, 2004, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slide

As far as I know only Doomsday can use PNG's with alpha channels anyway - so it's already Doomsday Specific.

Nah, they work fine in ZdoomGL as well - you can literally just drop the current texture pack in and it will work (directories are different though, they go in textures/doom)

February 10th, 2004, 09:47 AM	#6
DaniJ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 4,916	Well you can already mirror the benefits of the pk3 virtual folder structure within a wad. The issue here is whether it's possible for Doomsday to look for the external files as lumps in the wad. Maybe it could be done by creating a lump with the exact same name as the standard lump but append it with a character. (I haven't tried this but what would happen if you created a pnames resource in your wad that uses the virtual file paths as the lump names? It probably won't work though.) Obviously Skyjake would need to change how Doomsday searches for it's "external" files... If you set up your texture folders with the correct structure for Doomsday you could tell DoomBuilder to search this folder for textures (with the new external png support) so you can design with them directly, whilest being available to Doomsday for testing. Then when it comes to releasing it's a simple matter of packing up into a pk3. To do the same in wad though would abviously need something similar to what I mentioned in para#1/2. Last edited by DaniJ; February 10th, 2004 at 09:55 AM.

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February 9th, 2004, 03:12 PM	#1
Tolwyn Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: East Wenatchee, WA, United States Posts: 340	Doombuilder to support 8, 24, 32 PNG files This relates to my last post about PNG patches. Basically, you can now use PNG files as patches within XWE and "technically" create textures with these lumps. Doombuilder will now read the PWAD as a bonafide texture PWAD and display in the texture list. So, even though doom2.exe won't handle these, and XWE won't (yet) display the PNG files, Doombuilder WILL. http://www.tolwyn.com/images/db_png.jpg What you'll see in this image is a combination of Normal Doom patches/textures, 8 bit local paletted PNGs, 24 and 32 bit PNGs as well as PNG flats. The color isn't perfect in DB's 3D view, but good enough to assist with Theme management and texture alignment and such. You could still release a PK3 in the standard way, but this feature should/could now help with building the map with Doom Builder. Woot!

February 9th, 2004, 09:59 PM	#2
DaniJ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 4,916	So no more place holders? Woot indeed!

February 10th, 2004, 08:22 AM	#3
Tolwyn Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: East Wenatchee, WA, United States Posts: 340	Thank you, thank you, thank you. It took a lot of careful prodding at CodeImp to get this to happen. Now, uh, we need to have a little chat with SkyJake about something...

February 10th, 2004, 08:35 AM	#4
Slide Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 528	What would be good is to do away with PWADs alltogether and separate out all the relevant data within them into separate files within a PK3 - that would be really good as you you wouldn't need two different file formats when distributing models, deds etc... with your releases.

February 10th, 2004, 09:36 AM	#5
Tolwyn Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: East Wenatchee, WA, United States Posts: 340	If you were making a JDOOM specific release, I agree; but the community doesn't have those standards yet, unfortunately.

February 11th, 2004, 10:00 AM	#8
Tolwyn Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: East Wenatchee, WA, United States Posts: 340	I'm with you 100% on that, Slide. And I also agree on the 32 bit png thing. But it's not just PNG files, I think paletted GIF, BMP, PNG, TGA, etc. would work too.

February 12th, 2004, 03:35 AM	#9
Slide Commander Keen Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 528	One thing we should do is see if we can add the XG stuff to DoomBuilder - that would be a boost for Doomsday - I think it already supports a load of Legacy stuff so it would good. Some auto scripting of DED's would be nice as well.

February 12th, 2004, 04:49 AM	#10
DaniJ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 4,916	Yeah. I got started on that a while back (entering all the XG functions into the script editor). It's still not very user friendly as obviously you can only use certain commands in each function and DB doesn't care what you insert and where. Auto scripting of DED's would be very difficult to do in DB because it's just not designed for it. Personally I write them by hand but don't forget there is DEDman (skyjake's DED writing program) though I think it's a little outdated (missing some of the newer definitions).

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