Keeping up with the Jonses (Legacy vs. ZdoomGL), Long post.

I wanted to post this to give a comparasion of how I feel Legacy stacks up with another great port, ZdoomGL, *probably* Legacy's biggest "competitor" you might say lol

Installation:
ZdoomGL takes a lot more to install, requiring that you need ZDoom as well. Also all the mess with different batch files, and all the readmes contradict each other.
Legacy is alot easier to me...I just ran the launcher. End of story

First run:
Legacy wins this one again I think...I find Legacy a lot more easier to use, especialy with the launcher (my favorite thing about legacy really).
ZDoomGL took me an hour or so to get it working right, with the screen looking wierd at times, then running horridly slow....really annoying.

Stability:
Legacy again for me...I cant run it in Glide or MiniGl (and yes i have a 3dfx card) but OpenGL works fine...and it never crashes on me.
ZdoomGL is always giving me troubles for some reason...after finally getting the screen to look right, it would freeze at "init_sprite: Init Status Bar" or something like that. Finally it stopped doing that, but now it freezes when I try to start a new game....

Launcher:
I just LOVE Legacy's launcher. Makes playing single player maps, running demos, switching b/t Doom1 and Doom2 a breeze. A great piece of work.
ZDoomGL doesnt have this.

Ok so now I've covered my thoughts on the basics of using these two, now on to appearances...

Speed:
Legacy loads a lot faster than ZdoomGL does for me, and its not just b/c of the models. Even with the models turned off on ZdoomGL, the levels take a few seconds to load on ZdoomGL, and on Legacy its pretty much instant. But its not that big of a deal, and I'll take the speed hit that will occur when Legacy supports models in the future.

Sprites:
Legacy wins this one. The sprites in Legacy look a lot better to me, not as pixilated, with no black edges. Also the opening screen and menus are alot clearer.

Models:
ZdoomGL's models are a fun addition I think. Some of them look kinda goofy I think, like Boingo said, like puppets. But I think the weapon and trees and such as that models look great, just some of the baddies models look a little awkward, but not a bad job at all overall I think. And the HUD models, these dont run on mine, I get a ton of warnings when I run it, and I'm sure I could find a way to fix it, but I've spent enough time trying to get it to run right to fool with that right now.
Legacy says theirs will be in the future, I cant wait to see it.
-When doing Models, I hope Legacy is more "thorough" than ZDoomGl is. On certian explosions (Lost Soul for example) they still use sprites. Also the little hanging kids (whatever that is about) on Level 32 in Doom2 is still sprites. Id like to see a full set of MD2s to replace every sprite in the game, and ZdoomGL comes damn close. Also one thing I did like about the ZdoomGL models is that they where done strictly from the game sprites. I hate it when people take their own ideas and such on how to "refine" things, I love the authenticity the model's authors tried to keep.

Lighting:
Both engimes have great lighting I think. Both have a little bit of their own style, and both say they have the dynamic lighting that ZdoomGL is showcasing with its latest screenshots. I dont really know about all that, so I wont comment on it.

Floor Lighting:
ZdoomGL's floor lighting looks awesome I think, I'd like to see Legacy do this.

Skies:
ZdoomGL again for me. I like the MD2 sky best.

Lens Flares:
ZdoomGL has this, and I think it looks pretty cool. Another thing I'd like to see Legacy do, but maybe a little better than ZdoomGL does. I dont think that ZdoomGL's lens flares are very "proper", they don't fade when they should and the intesity doesn't change like it should either IMO, but still they don't look to bad. If Legacy could do it, and do it better, that would just help make Legacy that much better.

Misc:
I like the extra particle effect of blood when you shoot something in ZdoomGL, I think I mentioned this one a while back as well. Also ZdoomGL, when you shoot a wall, have a little explosion blast or something when they bullets hit the wall sometimes which ain't that bad.


Synopsis:
So there's how I feel the two stack up.

Legacy wins big time on easiest to use, with great features to make doing extra stuff extremely simple, most of this due to the great work with the launcher. Also Legacy is alot more stable and reliable on this matter for me.

ZdoomGL has more attention on special effects, which has let the stability and such slide somewhat. Once you get ZdoomGL working though, it wins (to me) in overall appearance with lights and skies and models and such.

So here's what I'm getting at I guess, to the Legacy people, any thought been put to adding these features?
-Models (ok Hurdler has already stated that this will be done, kick ass)
-Lens Flares (a change in intensity depending on how you look at the light would be nice too, for example, look at Serious sam. When you stare right at the sky, its really bright. Yet when you look to the side, the lens flare isnt as bright, but still there)
-Floor lighting
-Improved Skies and different rendering options for this
-Particle effect in addition to sprites when shooting baddies

Ok thats my spiel ;-), feel free to comment and discuss anything I've said. This is all just my OPINION based on my usage of the two. For some ZdoomGL may run more stable on your computer, but definately not on mine. Flame if you feel needed, but I'll just ignore yas ;-)

I've used Legacy for a year or so now I'd guess, or something like that, and ZdoomGL only recently b/c of the talk over models. Your mileage may vary....

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later
robert
-=Zao Haven=-
Rob's Page

The little kid, BTW, is Commander Keen, the main character from Id's older 2D Keen series.

Legacy supports skyboxes (I think), so I don't see how ZDoomGL wins out.

I have a Voodoo3 2000 PCI, and it runs Glide and MiniGL fine.

Partical effects? Mmmm..... But you know what? I think the best job of blood on the ground is done by Quake3. HalfLife does good too. The best job of bullets in floors/walls/ceilings is done by Unreal Tournament.

Regards, Adam.

How can he NOT know who commander keen is? man commander keend and the origonal duke nukem were the only decent games i had on my computer when i first got it, (my first favorite 2 player game was the game with the apes that threw the bannana's back and forth at each other.)Those were the days, you didnt have to worry about how fast your computer was, although i do remeber duke nukem freezing my computer a few times...

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Cheater! Cheater! Demon Eater!!!

The apes one, that was a QBasic program.

Regards, Adam.

QBASIC 0vvn3rz j00 a11!!!!!

Hehe

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Nothing can stop me now.

"Legacy supports skyboxes (I think), so I don't see how ZDoomGL wins out."

when im using legacy, and i look up, its like the sky stays still or something, it doesnt actually pan around to a different part of the sky. now in zdoom gl, with the md2 sky i think it is, it does, if you look up, you can see how it comes together at the top...i think zdoom has like 3-4 different sky options in there

"I have a Voodoo3 2000 PCI, and it runs Glide and MiniGL fine."

i have the exact same video card hehe...but i get this wierd error when i try to do it. id try it right now and tell you, but i have to restart my computer and i dont feel like doing it right now, ill post later. thats one thing i forgot. after playing zdoomgl sometimes, i can no longer run legacy, i get "cant set video mode" error. *shrug*

"How can he NOT know who commander keen is?"

LOL, i had no idea who that little bastard was. when i first got into computers and games, was when doom had been out for a while, my friend had a comp and id play it at his house some. when i bought my first computer, quake had just come out, and i bought it at the same time. so commander keen is prolly just a few years before my time ;-)

EDIT: ok, after restarting and checking the different modes, im getting some more errors and such. i dont know what the deal is, im going to delete everything and reinstall legacy to its own folder, since i foudn out all i need is the doom.wad and doom2.wad, maybe thatll fix it.

leagacy supports skyboxes, but it doesn't add things that weren't there, like the original doom wads.

and since when does how one port of doom stacks up against another important?

About your glide problem, it's probably because you have 1.32 beta 2 version without the glide patch... you can download it here:
http://legacy.newdoom.com/files/r_glide.dll


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Member of the DooM Legacy Team

xZAOx is right about the ZDoomGL lense flares though, there not very good at all. I mean, the flares are supposed to line up when you look directly at the object creating them, right? Not when the object is at the top of the screen, which is how ZDoomGL does it. I think that's just sloppy.

Plus, the coroners are crap on ZdoomGL. Their way too big. You try firing the plasma rifle and you can't see where your shooting for the huge mass of coroners being splashed accross your screen.

MD2 SKY????

WHAT-IS-THE-FUCKING-POINT??????

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I still DONT read sluggy freelance

"And by anarchist spirit I mean that deeply human sentiment, which aims at the good of all, freedom and justice for all, solidarity and love among the people; which is not an exclusive characteristic only of self-declared anarchists, but inspires all people who have a generous heart and an open mind..."
Errico Malatesta

Insanity plea(se) -Nobody reads it!

JDooM , i think anyways, does a pretty good job at lense flares. i know most people just flame at JDooM, but i don't see whats so bad about it, though it was a pain in the ass to install ( hmm sounds familiar? )

Pain in the arse to install? I just grabbed the zip, edited the batch file to run it in GL, and away I went. No problems yet. I decided to use JDoom to play through the Momento Mori levels again. Mainly because I love the lighting in it. It just seems so doom.

-CaRRaC

i had problems with the memory crap, because i couldn't figure out how to allow more memory for it to use.

ohhh, yeah I had a li'l hiccup with that. But that's a fault with Doom not allocating memory by itself (prolly disasterous in the days of 8 megs so you can't really blame it on jdoom, cos you'd get that problem in the original doom if it needed to load a lot.
I've got to gripe about jDoom's lack of decent support tho. The readme file was nonexistant so I had to trudge my way through 5 or 6 whatsnew.txt files. grrr.

-CaRRaC

The author of JDoom is back from the army and got back to work on jDoom...

Personnaly, I think jdoom was a breeze to install, set up and play. It looks nice, but it's nowhere close to Legacy on the features side. JDoom is still my 2nd favorite port though (Legacy beign my fav).

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-Drak

overall I prefer legacy. But jdoom has by far the best doom-like atmosphere in-game.

-CaRRaC

[kmiller1610]

I have spent the last 2 years building an old fashioned vanilla Doom LAN. My buds enjoy it, but I now back to looking at Doom legacy to try some of the newer MAPs under XP.

However I can only get the commercial wads to work. How does one load any of the newer wads under Legacy?

Your FAQ is no longer working.

[MR_ROCKET]

The FAQ is working, see here:
http://doomlegacy.sourceforge.net/docs/index.html
However the Doom Legacy Wiki doesn't seem to be working at the moment..

Other than that, it sounds like you just need the command -file
~ to load pwads

Legacy.exe -opengl -iwad doom2.wad -file somepwad.wad -skill 4

Or, you could just use the launcher and select "Single map".

I question though why you would dig up a 10 year old topic just to ask about a command? lol