What's a GOOD level?

What makes a map fun to play? What does everyone here think makes a level worth playing?

Two things make a good level: Design and Gameplay.

A well thought out and eye pleasing level, combined with the right balance of ammo, health, powerups, and enemies, will make or break a level. While you can have one without the other, both of them together make a better whole. Try a couple of my maps sometime and you'll see examples of what I mean.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

cool, midnightstorm. good advice

If you can help it, try to develop your own style of mapping. Everyone has their own style, and does mapping a certain way. Take Mystic for example, he's known for his small but difficult Void type levels, that are colorful and futuristic. (Mystic#s 1-8, for Legacy, there's a link to "Doom Heaven in Big_Al's sig if you want to try them).

I can't say I myself have any certain style, I'd have to ask someone else. One of these days I'll get some pics of my new Legacy level up on here too.

Also, it's always fun to try something else you think no one else has done yet, or something similar to something else that's rarely done. Not trying to sound corny, but Mapping is yet another way of expressing yourself, you can almost think of it as an art.

A good level is one that gets its message across, like this this one did.
Or takes one aspect of gameplay, and takes it to the absolute extreme, like this this one does.
Or one that takes us into the past like this one did.
Okay, here's some real advice, copy the E1 style like this one did.

Gameplay --> Design --> Features

Easy. Design, Gameplay, and Originality.

It's hard nowdays to find original maps. But now there's so many ways to be original, such as making a Legacy map with 3d Floors, colored lighting, deep water, fragglescript. Zdoom, you can use advanced ACS Scripting, Slopes, Mirrors, etc. With Jdoom, you can use XG Line Types, or even make your own models.

Gamplay is the most important. What's the use of playing a map that's just not fun? Who likes a map that's insanely impossible, and irritating?

Design is definatly important. If the level has a bad design, sometimes that may mean it has bad gameplay, and is unoriginal. If you actually work to make the maps look good, and make it have good gameplay, that's the aim.

Anyways, this is just my opinion.

I'm entirely played out when it comes to Doom. I've played through maps with every kind of gameplay imaginable time and time again, so the only reason I play maps nowadays is for their visual and architectural accomplishments. I enjoy walking around places as an observer much more than emptying hordes of demons out of them for the 10,000th time. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy good design in the gameplay department, but when it comes to personal enjoyment, I'll take a great looking map and run through it with -nomonsters instead of a good-playing plain map anyday.

I'm the explorer type, really. I could care less about monsters, they usually just detract from the scenery.

For me personally, if I'm working with vanilla Doom I tend to design with gameplay = looks, but with ports it's typically build a cool structure, then throw some dudes in. I really don't like ports, because I don't feel a level is good unless I've taken full advantage of available features, i.e. used up the entire 32,000 sidedefs and used a lot of port-specific features. After that, what happens is I just can't keep up with what I've already built, which means I can't add more, then the level just sits there for months at a time.

I'm doing some detailed maps now for the sake of making detailed maps: after that, I don't think I'll ever map for a port again. I almost have to have limits forced on me to ensure I'll actually complete something.

I really just need to stop mapping entirely, but there's so much incomplete junk I have laying around that I've already spent so many years on I just can't let it slide. I guess it doesn't help that I'm constantly starting new stuff as well.

Anyway, visuals and looks go far and beyond gameplay of any kind. As long as there's enough ammo for the monsters, it's all good - whenever I play with monsters.

Hey Lut, you can go OVER 32k linedefs now with the latest ZDOOM 2.xx Also there is no more 128k BLOCKMAP limit. Put the bug in other port's ears - basically make the index values unsigned, change the blockmap and change the nodes. Latter needs some new standard - chicken and egg thing. I'll probably do a beta nodes builder to get it rolling. Might be GLBSP first though, since BOOMSDAY guy will change the code if I do it.

Next version of DeePsea will let you make >32k linedefs and of course >32k sidedefs and some other changes.
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On topic: I too like level design 1st, then gameplay. Also I prefer totally new textures (not stock DOOM textures - been there, done that too much). So also replace as many textures as possible. If a port supports it, use hi-res textures!!

A good level? The ones I make are good. I don't know if anyone's actually downloaded them though. Has anyone done that yet?

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Member of the NewDooM megawad team. Map 14: Jail Break.

My own little bunch of WADs. Containing 3 individual maps. Download it here

Thanks to Sparky for the hosting.
If you would wish to host this then contact me at by E-mail. mailto:AndrewAFE@aol.comAndrewAFE@aol.com</A>

Hint to all Katana owners: Never sit on yours, It'll give you a very sore ass indeed.
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Click here for flash.
Patrick Moore playing his xylophone.
The animated series of DooM.
DooM E1M1 in flash

The New Radical said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, serif">quote:</font><hr width="100%" size="1" noshade><font face="Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, serif" size="2">What makes a map fun to play? What does everyone here think makes a level worth playing?</font><hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>As most of the previous posts have indicated, gameplay and level design are what people generally look for in a map. Here's my take on each of these. I'm really just elaborating on these two points.

Gameplay:

• 1. Atmosphere. Many maps strive for a creepy atmosphere, with somewhat dimly-lit areas and the presence of monsters heard but not seen. Others go for reasonably well-lit areas, and even a brighter look to the map with new blue-sky textures, etc. Each approach works well, depending on the intention of the author.
  2. Surprises. Some maps, especially the creepy ones, will spring traps on the unsuspecting player, perhaps without warning. It's best, however, to give the player either a clue that there's a trap, enough health & ammo to deal with the trap, or a way out. The key is to make the player sweat without dooming him/her to failure.
  3. Action. Some maps will have enemies sniping at you from a distance, forcing you to duck and hide until you are close enough to deal with them. Others will have hordes of enemies swarming around. Others will require you to run through or retreat or cause enemy in-fights. All approaches can work very well if implemented properly.
  4. Health/Armor/Weapons/Ammo Not too much, not too little. As always, keep the player on edge, but give him/her a chance.
  5. Skill Levels. Not all players have the same skill. For wider appeal, skill levels should be implemented. Otherwise, in the text file specify which skill level the map was built for.

Level Design:

• 1. Theme. The most common themes appear to be tech/base, medeival, and hellish. When designing a level, try to stay within the theme, unless the story-line indicates otherwise. That's not to say that some elements of one cannot be introduced into a map with a different theme (e.g., the selective use of MARBFAC textures in tech/base maps). But this ought to be done with some care.
  2. Architecture. The better the architecture, the more pleased your audience is likely to be. However, do not sacrifice gameplay for architecture (Lüt's opinion notwithstanding).
  3. Map Layout. While there's nothing inherently wrong with a linear map, providing the player alternative paths to a given objective is often appreciated.
  4. Map Structure. Avoid a map with the same height attributes throughout. In other words, make some rooms with higher ceilings or lower floors than others, make rooms that are higher up (accessible via stairs, elevators, or teleporters), etc. Add windows, especially to areas that the player will only access later in the map, or secret areas.
  5. Texturing. Same principles as Themes, above. In addition, make sure textures are properly aligned.

More than $0.02 worth, wouldn't you say? Perhaps $0.03 or even $0.05

I agree 100% with you ReX...personally, I enjoy non-linear levels better than linear ones...but it depends on wht you have to go through in order to reach the objective, though. Take for instance Cyberden, map 31 of Plutonia (Final Doom). The objective is to pretty clear once you get into the level, and the tasks you have to perform in order to reach it are pretty damn fun to me...plus the architecture is well done too.

Design, atmosphere, and most importantly replay value...if it makes you wanna come back and kill all the demons over and over again...then you should know it's a good map.

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I stalk, close in from above
Silent wings will test your faith
Death will never hear me pass
Pray for sin a shattered faith
Down on your knees, you're screaming out to die...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, serif">quote:</font><hr width="100%" size="1" noshade><font face="Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, serif" size="2">Gameplay:

1. Atmosphere.</font><hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Really? I've always considered atmosphere a product of architecture (lighting in Doom(2) I consider "architecture" since it must be built).

If you check out some of my reviews of maps on my doom2 wads page - http://www.doomwadstation.suhost.com
You can see how I judge a map or maps. Playability, level design and plain fun are important. Balancing out ammo/health/monsters so that the player is always pushing the limits but never out of options is important.

I sent in a map for you to take a look at if you would. I only had the map file on this comp...I'll send you the readme as soon as I can find it.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Yup - I got it.

Great I look forward to seeing the review.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Hi Sam. I remember Wages of Sin, which was a pretty cool map. I'm sure your other maps are equally cool.

Hey bro glad to see you back! I've made a few more Doom and Doom 2 maps since...when I get a chance I'll send 'em to you. The latest map I released is a level 30 replacement for Doom 2. Pester Doom Dude for a copy &gt; )

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Are you talking about your NDCP map???? If so, ReX probably already played it.

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----Linedef Technician and Sector Maker Upper----