sprite editing help

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

call me a noob or whatever u want, but when i use mspaint and try to put sprites and flats back into doom via deepsea lump editor, it doesnt work, it only works with textures and backgrounds. can sumone help me?

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Either use XWE or wintex, or wait for Deep or a Deepsea user to come along and help you. I don't use Deepsea for that stuff, so this is the best advice I can give.

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

kk

[dd_133]

XWE sucks...doesn't use transparent gray color..*gurumbles*

[Frades]

There is no transparent gray colour in doom palette.
The transparent colour is cyan in doom palette.
And if you don't know how to use a program, it doesn't automatically mean it sucks.
XWE and wintex are both good for certain things.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

The transparency is actually done by the palette index (247), so you can have it any colour you want. Like Frades said, both programs are worth having.

[Ben2k9]

wintex is the easyist

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Originally Posted by Ben2k9

wintex is the easyist

Not quite. Both programs have different strengths. XWE for instance, can automatically generate textures from a load of images. In wintex you have to do them individually, which is slow and crappy. For an opposite example, XWE's texture alignment tool sucks, whereas Wintex is great for this.

[deepteam]

Originally Posted by {TTr}Uber_soldat

call me a noob or whatever u want, but when i use mspaint and try to put sprites and flats back into doom via deepsea lump editor, it doesnt work, it only works with textures and backgrounds. can sumone help me?

It works, but you have to know a few more editing rules

For Sprites, you have to add SS_START and SS_END before and after the first and last sprite. This only works for PORTS not stock DOOM. Be sure to click Sprites when you import.

For Flats, you have to add FF_START and FF_END before and after the first and last flat. For stock DOOM, add F_END after the last flat. Be sure you click Flats when you import.

You can't do Sprites and Flats at the same time. So Import 1 and then import the other.

DeePsea makes textures in one pass from as many BMPs at a time as you like. That means you get patches, PNAMES and TEXTURE1 entries all made at the same time - with duplicate safety checking.

Index 247 is not the transparent index. First off, DOOM doesn't have 1 and secondly the index value used is arbritrary. All that matters is the color value assigned, which also is arbritary. The color just has to match the color assigned in the raw graphic being imported.

FYI, 247 is actually a bad value since that's used in some textures/graphics use that for a real color. The only index value that is safe to use for DOOM/DOOM2 is 251. It's not used by ANY graphic.

Btw, texture alignment in Wintex suffers because it's limited to 128 high. So ok for stock DOOM, but no good for newer ports like ZDOOM. Also wide graphics can't be seen.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Originally Posted by deepteam

Index 247 is not the transparent index. First off, DOOM doesn't have 1 and secondly the index value used is arbritrary. All that matters is the color value assigned, which also is arbritary. The color just has to match the color assigned in the raw graphic being imported.

What do you mean exactly?

[Doom_Dude]

I'm not sure but I'm glad it works.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Originally Posted by Doom_Dude

I'm not sure but I'm glad it works.

Yeah. I suppose that is the crux of the matter at the end of the day.

[deepteam]

Originally Posted by ToXiCFLUFF

What do you mean exactly?

What is the question? It's exactly as I stated. DOOM does not use a transparent index of any kind. The only purpose of a transparent color is for programs like DeePsea, Wintex, XWE, etc to determine what color is to be considered "transparent" in converting to the DOOM format. That color value (RGB) can be anything you want, but it better not be an actual color you want to keep around in the final result.

The index value used is technically not relevant, just that some index value has to match the RGB assigned to that color. IOW, you can use any index value, although it's wise to use an index value that is not used in any DOOM graphic (and 247 is used). The reason is that the color at that index value can't be used as an actual color in any image imported. This only becomes a problem if you exported a DOOM image using 247 as an actual color (recalling that DOOM does not have a transparent color at all).

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Ahh Ok, I think I understand now. Basically, the index/colour is just a kind of marker for the resource editing programs to determine what is transparent before converting to Doom's native format?

[deepteam]

yes

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

god, i dont mean to be rude, and i thank you for your help, but do you spend your life doing this or something?

*never mind, your usernames says it all, Deepteam*