Those Mean People That Want to Hurt Obama

[Mystic]

The English wont let us have independence without a fight and they outnumber us 10 to 1. Not only that but they also have an army, air force and navy, a large police force and many thousands of 5th collumnists within our midst.

Got to laugh at the MPs who are having to pay back their dodgy expenses claims demanding a wage rise to compensate them.

[Aliotroph?]

Things like that are why the IRA (when they were killing officials) were heroes. Would be fun to have some Scottish insurgents.

[Jamman]

Calling the IRA heroes is a bit inappropriate.
But in the end England wouldn't have a say in Scotland's secession, they are after all self governed. The only authority higher than the Scottish parliament in Scotland is the Queen. Plus, we have seen the end of many British empires, Scotland would be just another entry for Britain's growing list of former states.

My only concern is without Scotland's voting power the Conservatives will win every subsequent election.

[Aliotroph?]

No it isn't. The IRA started out as a rebel force designed to kill Englishmen who had conquered their country. They're heroes. The ones who went around bombing civilians and terrorizing them certainly weren't, but neither were the English and Unionists who did the same.

Having England vote for conservatives all the time sure does sound scary. That said, it looks scary there with Labour running the show.

[Mystic]

Labour ceased to be a party with socialist ideals when Tony Blair took over not that it ever was truly socialist anyway. None of those ex-empire countries were let go without bloodshed, just because they dont teach it in school doesnt mean it never happened, example, Malaya, british paid for the heads of 'commuinst' insurgents even bringing in real headhunters from Borneo to get some.

[Aliotroph?]

We made it out without having our guys killed.

Socialist ideals these days seem to include taking away everybody's freedom to do anything. Basically the same as conservative ideals but with a different excuse.

[Jamman]

"None of those ex-empire countries were let go without bloodshed"

I'm not sure that's exactly true, Mystic. I know the Handover of China was pretty peaceful, and I'm sure there must be other examples. I believe most of the Post War Attlee decolonisation were fairly peaceful even if some were incredibly bloody.

And Aliotroph, that's such a misguided view of the IRA (not to mention morally absolute). The IRB originally formed not to 'Fight the evil English', but end an imperialistic rule and establish a Socialist Republic to Ireland. It wasn't an invasion response against the English, they were much too late for that. And it certainly wasn't about killing people. But those ideals ended in, like... 1922; about ten years after the formation of the Irish Republican Brotherhood. The Anti-treaty IRA, and the Provisionals are/were killers; idealistic killers, but killers regardless. Nothing justifies mass-murder campaigns.

[Mystic]

Sometimes those in power and their supporters leave no option but extreme violence. I abhor violence and would normally call myself a pacifist but, for example, if on my upcoming trip to Latvia there is a revolution to get rid of their criminal democratically elected government I will gladly man the barricades. The same would apply if the people of the UK decided they had enough of this pretence at 'freedom and democracy' .

[Aliotroph?]

Yes, exactly. They were fighting off a colonial government. How does that not equate to killing the evil English? Of course, setting up a socialist, Catholic republic is a pretty evil thing to try too. Hmm, why are all British conflicts like that? Both sides are evil. It's like the thing with Guy Fawkes. I'd be tempted to cheer him on, but he was Catholic and that's just wrong too. Religion is evil.

Also, handing over HK to China was different. They'd signed a treaty saying they would give it back (weird notion, really).

[Mystic]

Oh the UK has dirty hands over China too, we did go to war with China to force them to take opium back in the day when the UK was the main supplier of opiates in the world. (probably still is secretly).

[Jamman]

I wouldn't deny there were underhanded techniques used in the seizing of china. In fact I wouldn't be able to argue a case for any colonisation occurring without blood shed (in some form); I think the term Colonisation comes with an implication of violence. But I thought we were talking about the release of those colonises.

"How does that not equate to killing the evil English"
-Aliotroph
Because 'Killing the evil English doesn't even begin to cover the complexities of the Irish Civil war. There were pro and anti agreement on both sides, Irish and British. And when I say British I mean that very loosely, The plantation of Ireland occurred about 200 years before this point so many of the population were of British decent anyway.