How to Shut Up a Liberal Loon

[REoL]

Some Libby-Loon was giving me a hard time about "Dubya'" sending our troops over to Iraq, when they never did anything to us, their argument was.

This shut them up, and never heard from them again:

"I don't know why we sent millions of our troops over to Germany in WW2, after all, what did Hitler ever do to us?"

[Mystic]

are you sure that libby loon wasnt a figment of your imagination??? thats hardly an argument, Iraq is all about grabbing oil and making lots of money for contractors who are all friends/allies of Bush and his gang of cronies. The Bush/Blair coalition deliberately lied about WMD and Bush went farther and hinted that iraq had something to do with Bin Laden (Saddam was actually one of Bin Ladens arch enemies) How the hell you see any of that being similar to WW2 is beyond me, only in your little mind Reol.

[Aliotroph?]

Quit with the oil bullshit. It wasn't about oil! Everybody saying that didn't do the math. Iraq supplies squat. Canada, of all places, is America's biggest oil supplier! Iraq hasn't even managed to restart the oil industry properly. If the war was about oil they'd be pumping millions of barrels by now.

Arguably, the libby loon could say you sent troops to Europe because Hitler declared war on you. America had no interest in fighting it until the Japs attacked Pearl Harbour while in an alliance with Hitler. If they hadn't been so silly about attacking America (they knew they'd ultimately lose), there would have been no America in that war.

[Grazza]

America had no interest in fighting it until the Japs attacked Pearl Harbour while in an alliance with Hitler. If they hadn't been so silly about attacking America (they knew they'd ultimately lose), there would have been no America in that war.That's not so clear at all.

Japan attacked the USA because it (rightly or wrongly) saw the USA's entry into the war as inevitable anyway. The USA had been providing a great deal of support to the UK (supplies, setting aside debt) to help it avoid succumbing to Germany (essential if the USA was to be able to assist Europe at all at some later point). So far as supporting the UK was concerned, the USA could do some things as a non-combatant that would be harder as a combatant - would the Germans really attack ships from a neutral country, and risk bringing it fully into the war? The USA's actions were not those of a country desperate to stay fully out of the conflict and watch from the sidelines, but rather one that was timing its possible entry carefully, and wary of losing the support of its own people.

Also, is it so clear that Japan's eventual defeat was inevitable? The battle of Midway was only won by something close to a miracle. And if it hadn't been for the Manhattan Project (and it achieving success quicker than those in the Axis countries), the outcome would still have been far from certain.

As for Iraq, do people forget that Iraq had been an ongoing issue throughout the 1990s? And that it had been deliberately giving the impression that it had WMDs to intimidate Iran (and what better way to do that than by deceiving the hi-tech spy equipment of the "great satan")? Given that, the intelligence would certain look as if Iraq was developing or had this capability, so while the USA and UK governments might be accused of exaggerating the threat (or not), you can hardly call it an outright lie.

[REoL]

Good, Grazza, VERY good!
Also, let's not forget, Saddam was trying to invade other countries, and executing undesirables. Sounds familiar? That's how Hitler got started, and Bush was RIGHT about going in, to go after him, and take him out before history completely repeated itself. If he sat back and did nothing, we'dhave a WWIII going on, not learning from the past.

[Aliotroph?]

No we wouldn't. Iraq had no ability to become a world power and no properly powerful allies. They were always at odds with Iran, for example. Iran is much more high-tech and if they decided to go on a conquering spree, would be much more dangerous than Iraq.

[Mystic]

The 'ongoing issue' the west had with Iraq was that it was killing some of its own people, namely the shia muslims near Basra and the kurds in the north. What is always conveniently left out of that allegation is the fact that those same shia and kurd minorities are the folk who were (and still are) supporters of Osama Bin Laden. The only alquaeda (whatever) training camp in Iraq was in the Nato controlled kurdish zone. Nato knew Saddam had no WMD precisely because they never sold him any.
Saddam was being punished for declaring that in future all Iraqs international trading would be conducted using the Euro as currency, there was no way the UK and USA were going to allow themselves to be forced to buy Euros. Aliotroph? is a little bit wrong about the oil in Iraq, they have very strong reserves of oil and now it all belongs to Bush, Blair, Cheney and their various dodgy partners including members of the taleban government of Afghanistan. They are just sitting on it and laughing all the way to the bank (which they probably also own).

[Boingo the Clown]

Ummm ...

You just joined a DooM forum to debate politics?!?

Even I wouldn't do that.

[Aliotroph?]

Maybe he knows REoL. ;)

The big thing with the bottom falling out of America's economy was this recent trend towards deregulating everything and therefore letting a bunch of non-technical people decide how things should work. This kind of recession is an artifice constructed from the fears of irrational business people. It's not like anybody's ability to do work magically disappeared, or the crops died, or we ran out of oil. Nope, we just let too many meta-workers hand out money they didn't have. Both big parties in the states helped with that silliness.

It seems that this time the businesses that didn't already have money problems and "stayed the course," to steal some buzzwords, are doing ok. Too bad a critical mass got scared and started dumping employees. If more of them had just ignored the fear it wouldn't have been so bad. Again, letting people make decisions based on next quarter's projected profits is often pretty stupid.

[REoL]

Don't forget the morons who signed up for the $500,000 mortgages when their source of income is the McDonald's cashier, and shame on the loan predators for taking advantage of it.
Worse off, Barney Frank told Fannjie Mae to take these awful loans that were doomed to fail, and reassured them the government will bail them out WHEN they go bad.
Aliotroph? brings up a good point about the far right (buisness models). Funny how they dig themselves ahole, and plead to be bailed out. They run a company into the ground, and get hundreds of millions of dollars for bonuses?! RERALLY!

Plenty of blame to go around here.

[Mystic]

Bush and Blair got their major kickbacks from the oil industry, Brown and Obama will be filthy rich from the kickbacks the bailed out banks throw at them. Thats what its really all about. Politicians are a bunch of self seeking, opportunist, untrustworthy scumbags, they really are just like pigs at a trough stuffing themselves with taxpayers money.

[trhodes]

I'd love to see proof that anyone knew all these loans were going to fail, and that the government would bail them out, before it happened. Sure, the minimum wage 500K house is almost an obvious failure not knowing their other sources of income. And I'm still waiting for the proof that the Iraq invasion was a good idea.

[REoL]

Bush and Blair got their major kickbacks from the oil industry, Brown and Obama will be filthy rich from the kickbacks the bailed out banks throw at them. Thats what its really all about. Politicians are a bunch of self seeking, opportunist, untrustworthy scumbags, they really are just like pigs at a trough stuffing themselves with taxpayers money.

Could not have said it better myself. :)