Hadron Particle Collider

[<<-Jimmy->>]

There seems to be a new "End-of-World" theory reaching the news about every month lately, or at least it seems like it. Now there's one this Hadron Particle Collider in Geneva that's trying to recreate some sort of big bang scenario for research in the creation of the universe or whatever. Which could just possibly create black holes. The scientists are staring this thing up for the first time tomorrow. Now I don't know if their just trying to prove something against creationists or god knows what, but if people think this is going to cause the end of the world. Frankly you're just delusional if they knew that the machine was capable of such a thing it would not be allowed to even be constructed in the first place. [or are you?]

The thing about the whole theory of a black hole being created is of no worry apparently. Because of one of Stephen Hawkings theory's, called Hawking Radiation which states something along the lines of that the amount of matter that the black hole would absorb it would put out at the same speed so small black holes would be of no risk. Basically they would "evaporate" before they got a chance to do any significant damage. The thing that bothers me is that these scientists are allowed to go on with whatever kind of objective,and practically clear of all legal or moral obligations it's just insane.

[MR_ROCKET]

If it wasn't for Carmack and his freak'n rocket's, this whole thing could have been avoided..

Oh politics, my bad..:D

[Mystic]

Im amused the fools actually still believe in the big bang and black holes but I guess they have to believe in something to justify the massive research grants they get. The thing is, scientists refuse to believe in anything that cant be proved by maths or in the laboratory so they completely ignore the possibility that the universe is actually infinite, had no beginning, no 'big bang', its just always been there doing its thing regardless of the rules and laws humans keep making then scrapping.

if their machine does nothing we will never know, they will make up some theoretical mumbo jumbo about this tiny particle or that new type of energy and all the science fans around the world will swallow the bullshit hook line and sinker just as they always do then go off to bed daydreaming about star trek and that space travel is really possible in their lifetime.

[Giftmacher]

Heh, for a minute I thought it said Hardon Particle Collider. :p

[Potnop]

Heh, for a minute I thought it said Hardon Particle Collider. :p

LOL me too. That's why i read this.

Anyway, now we wait until tomorrow to see if the world will end. LOL.

[rustyslacker]

Im amused the fools actually still believe in the big bang and black holes but I guess they have to believe in something to justify the massive research grants they get. The thing is, scientists refuse to believe in anything that cant be proved by maths or in the laboratory so they completely ignore the possibility that the universe is actually infinite, had no beginning, no 'big bang', its just always been there doing its thing regardless of the rules and laws humans keep making then scrapping.

if their machine does nothing we will never know, they will make up some theoretical mumbo jumbo about this tiny particle or that new type of energy and all the science fans around the world will swallow the bullshit hook line and sinker just as they always do then go off to bed daydreaming about star trek and that space travel is really possible in their lifetime.
It is the pursuit of knowledge, whether we are correct at the moment or not. Scientists do not refuse to believe in whatever you're talking about, but withhold judgment until evidence is presented. Seems a pretty reasonable method of learning, doesn't it? Just because you would be content to assume that the universe is/has always been/will always be just doing what it is, does not mean we all are. It is not rules or laws that we make up to try to constrain the behavior we observe, but ideas we articulate from the patterns we naturally see.

I'm pretty tired of hearing about the particle collider ending the world. Not as if our little rock had any universal significance anyway, right?

[Ninja_of_DooM]

Eeewww Gifty, you sick bugger! :p Nah just joking. I will admit, I thought that's what it said too.

That said, I don't think it'll amount to much if anything at all. The folks behind it say it themselves, they're not even sure if they'll find anything when they fire it up. As for the whole 'end of the world' theory; bollocks. If it does happen then I'm going to be pissed. I wasn't meant to go to college until 11am today but I went in for 8am (8AM!!!) to get some application forms filled in and some studying done. :p

[Mystic]

Scientists treat mathematical theory as fact, example the 'theory' of relativity or almost any theory stephen hawking comes up with. They ignore my theory because infinity cannot be proved mathematically so therefore doesnt exist.

They like to think they are clever because they are good at maths, my theory is that being good at maths can make a person incredibly small minded.

[rustyslacker]

If it does happen then I'm going to be pissed.
Nah, you'll be ripped apart into individual particles almost instantaneously. You won't have time to get pissed. :)
Scientists treat mathematical theory as fact, example the 'theory' of relativity or almost any theory stephen hawking comes up with. They ignore my theory because infinity cannot be proved mathematically so therefore doesnt exist.

They like to think they are clever because they are good at maths, my theory is that being good at maths can make a person incredibly small minded.
Don't be so ignorant. Colloquially, a theory is a hypothesis, an idea formulated but yet to be thoroughly tested; in a scientific context, a theory is well-tested and fully supported by all the evidence found so far. Gravity, for example, is a "theory". Good luck finding contradictory evidence.

A theory is a testable model which has demonstrated itself sound time and time again. For the moment, at least, our current arsenal of scientific theories can be relied upon and trusted.

[+Acyclitor+]

if they knew that the machine was capable of such a thing it would not be allowed to even be constructed in the first place.actually, when the first atomic bombs were tested the scientists involved were genuinely afraid that the massive fission reaction would never stop and ignite the entire world's atmosphere. they tested it anyway.

the LHC could produce some black holes in miniature, but they would wink out of existence very quickly. I'm not worried, the laws of nature and physics tend to have fail-safes (for lack of a better term).

[blood imp]

Eh, I've read about this for a while, seeing as I was interested in the subject. The possibility of black holes capable of damage occurring is basically 0%. What Jimmy stated about Hawking radiation is correct, and any black holes created would "evaporate" instantly. Besides, the LHC isn't the only particle collider, it's going to be the largest though. Also, most of the colliders test different particles.

As for Johnny, what makes you so sure your ideas of infinite space and no beginning are correct? What scientists have to go on is mathematical evidence, visual evidence, and years of research, as well as access to technology you probably have no idea the workings of. What do you have that can in any way support your ideas? A rebel attitude?

[MR_ROCKET]

That's some serious mathematics, I just hope we'r all here tomarrow..or in 2012 when they make it more powerful and it sucks everything into the earth.

[Doom_Dude]

Oh noes, tomorrow is doomsday! http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3378/speechlesssmiley0028408fw0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

I'm interested in reading the results after they fire this thing up.

[Aliotroph?]

They're not doing any experiments tomorrow except turning it on and seeing if they can get a proton beam going around it. Nothing new there. They do that every time they build one of these on any scale. We did similar stuff with electron beams in high school. Fun, and neat, but not new. All they'll have to say is whether it works or it's broken, so you can all sleep well. :) Get worried in November or so. ;)

Andy, your "theory" is the one that was held for centuries. The astronomer geeks gave it up because it didn't hold in the face of things like the observation of galaxies generally moving further apart and a healthy dose of fairly uniform background microwave radiation anywhere a big telescope is pointed. Those point to everything being closer together as you go further back. They can use math to come up with ideas about conditions assuming something like that is true, and experiments like this are designed to test it. Funny thing is, lots of scientists are pretty convinced it might be dangerous, but somehow the ones sure it isn't won out. Guess we'll find out. I'm going with the not-dangerous crew, but I have no evidence there. I have better things to do than learn that much about physics.

Most of the scientists involved would probably happily speculate on all sorts of infinite things. They've come up with no ideas precluding an infinite number of universes for example. That's fine, and may be true, but it's somewhat worthless conjecture since we have no way at all of figuring out anything in that area.

You can rant on end about the scientists making up bullshit for grants (and I've meta few of those bastards), but when you have something costing tens of billions of dollars you can bet that if it's not on the right track, it's at least not a total fraud. Scientists are talky people who like to have their own opinions. You couldn't rope thousands of them into a conspiracy.

[MR_ROCKET]

Actually I'm wondering what they find out, as well as everyone else I'm sure. Could it be a string to many things more advanced possibly a new form of communication, maybe even teleportation? Though how long will it take for them to study the amount of information and have something useful?

[Aliotroph?]

Methinks years, decades or centuries, if anything at all. :D Meh.

[Giftmacher]

Lets hope we haven't nuked ourselves into the Fallout 3 universe before then. :p

[Johanbeyl]

Nice knowing ya all. I hope they serve pie inside the blackhole - I like pie, do you like pie? *search* *caclaf*

[FreeLanZer]

Hadron, apply directly to the forehead.
Hadron, apply directly to the forehead.
Hadron, apply directly to the forehead.
Headon Particle Collider..

[CrazedImp]

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com

[ghost]

This is all from the hype of the media, anything to scare people into watching and reading more of their news products.

As for black holes, no man-made products can ever ever ever ever create black holes, it would require force with a mass exceeding 5 solar masses which is a billion kajillion kilograms, heck even our Sun can't create a bloody black hole when it dies.
But if there was such possibility, why would the scientists go ahead with it? Some things aren't meant to be explored.

[FreeLanZer]

We're doomed!
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/largehadron.jpg
*eek*

[Mystic]

As for Johnny, what makes you so sure your ideas of infinite space and no beginning are correct? What scientists have to go on is mathematical evidence, visual evidence, and years of research, as well as access to technology you probably have no idea the workings of. What do you have that can in any way support your ideas? A rebel attitude?

I have a little something called a brain and common sense.
A long time ago I was really into science, especially astronomy until I realised a lot of it was bullshit. Like black holes.

You guys go on and on about black holes as if you actually know real stuff about them, thats really funny because they really are just a theory and nobody knows squat about them.

[g6672D]

Damnit. Hardon. 4chan ruined my life. Maybe I'll not be regretting it though.

Is it "tommorow" yet?

[CrazedImp]

Yes it is actually. We seem to be still alive.

[Aliotroph?]

Yes, though any death today wouldn't have been from the machine even if it was likely to make black holes and kill us all. :p

[Mystic]

I want back whatever portion of my taxes went into funding that machine, come to think of it I want paid back whatever was used for invading Iraq too.

I dont work my guts off so some pampered mathematicians can scratch each others backs. Let the bastards get real jobs.

[sLydE]

We're doomed!
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/largehadron.jpg
*eek*
Damn, I was just going to post that picture. At least we have our front line taken care of when the headcrabs come through.

[CrazedImp]

I want back whatever portion of my taxes went into funding that machine, come to think of it I want paid back whatever was used for invading Iraq too.

I dont work my guts off so some pampered mathematicians can scratch each others backs. Let the bastards get real jobs.
You do realise that you wouldn't have half the things you do today if we didn't invest in these kinds of projects. It is called progress. If we didn't have scientists wanting to explore the possibilities of what can be achieved, we'd still be living by sticks and stones. Just think that your tax money is going on a lot worse things. Like paying for politicians holidays.

[Doom_Dude]

I like the logo Google put up today. ;)

[jetflock]

my whole life is a black hole, and it sure did evaporate.

[Nemesis]

We're doomed!
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/largehadron.jpg
*eek*

Oshi-

Headcrabs + Xen + Combine > Black Hole

):

Srsly, I've heard so many 'end of the world' scenarios that I just don't care anymore (Cry Wolf Syndrome, I guess). When/If the end of the world happens, it'll happen. In the meantime, I'll just play video games and get my college education. :U

[Giftmacher]

I'm still alive! :D

[FreeLanZer]

I'm still alive! :D
Yes we're indeed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI
*cacwnk*

[Mystic]

You do realise that you wouldn't have half the things you do today if we didn't invest in these kinds of projects. It is called progress. If we didn't have scientists wanting to explore the possibilities of what can be achieved, we'd still be living by sticks and stones. Just think that your tax money is going on a lot worse things. Like paying for politicians holidays.

Actually politicians holidays are not worse things and dont cost anything like as much as all that technology. I find sticks and stones a much better alternative to the modern 'thanks to science and technology' alternatives (missiles, chain guns etc) thanks very much.

If I thought scientists were genuinely striving to make the world a better place for all of humankind then I would support them in their endeavours whatever the cost. I know this isnt the case and grudge every penny. If they want to explore possibilities let them pay for it themselves.

[Doom_Dude]

First Gordon and now.....

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8900/256fu4g4087067tq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[rustyslacker]

I have a little something called a brain and common sense.
A long time ago I was really into science, especially astronomy until I realised a lot of it was bullshit. Like black holes.

You guys go on and on about black holes as if you actually know real stuff about them, thats really funny because they really are just a theory and nobody knows squat about them.
My goodness! As I posted earlier, the "just a theory" argument loses validity in a scientific context because "theories" are heavily tested and fully supported models. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it bullshit.

[Aliotroph?]

Science isn't about making the world a better place. It's about making tech, learning new things, and killing the opposition with increasingly dangerous weapons. These days I'm learning more towards the idea of making technology and doing science at nearly any cost. We waste government money on stuff like tax exemptions for churches so we may as well burn more on science. And what's with all the prohibitions against human testing? How are we ever gonna learn stuff like that???

[sLydE]

First Gordon and now.....

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8900/256fu4g4087067tq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Look at the dude directly to GMan's right. That's the cigarette smoking man from X-Files.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/590000/images/_592228_x-filesman150.jpg

Epic Human Resources Department, FTW!

[Aliotroph?]

Hehehe, awesome. Now somebody find one with Barney!

[MR_ROCKET]

Barney's the guy on the right with the other yellow hardhat. :D
Blame it on teh donuts.

[blood imp]

Damn, CERN has quite the staff!

I have a little something called a brain and common sense.
A long time ago I was really into science, especially astronomy until I realised a lot of it was bullshit. Like black holes.

You guys go on and on about black holes as if you actually know real stuff about them, thats really funny because they really are just a theory and nobody knows squat about them.
O RLY? So because we don't know EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING about a black hole, that means it must obviously not be true. And because we don't know ESFT about the dimensions of the universe or other such stuff means that YOUR theory which doesn't even have evidence except YOUR sense of common sense must be correct, because theirs is incomplete.
And you would rather live in a world without modern medicine, without your computer (which you seem all too happy to use), without any knowledge of how things work except that a stick can hurt something (and gods know why), than in the world we live in now? I'm with you there, buddy! *thumbs*

[Aliotroph?]

Yeah, he's crazy. Makes a fun map at least. :D

[Mystic]

hehehe, its really funny to see all the trekkies erupting when someone dares to shatter their little fantasies.

Have any of you ever gave anything like the 'big bang' theory any thought of your own??? I mean actually sitting down and just thinking about it, not looking at mathematical equations, not regurgitating your college lecturers ideas, just sitting there thinking your own original thoughts right out of your own head???

How does that go again exactly??
Once upon a time there was a big rock surrounded by nothing. One day the big rock exploded and scattered its bits all over the nothing, creating galaxies and stars and planets and all kinds of life.

OOPS sorry that cant be right either can it, that 'nothing' surrounding the big rock would have to be infinite or else we need to create something else outside of that and then something outside of that too and so on and on.

Common sense would suggest that the Universe is actually endless meaning it really has no end, theres no big wall at the end of it where the universe ceases to be and 'something else' starts.
Im pretty sure that some clever cloggs somewhere has worked on some maths that explains there is a end and a something else but thats really just as silly if not even more so than any creationist beliefs.

I actually sit here laughing at my screen whenever I get flamed by worshippers of science, been tormenting them for a long time about this stuff. it just amazes me that people who seem to be well educated, even intelligent, can be so 'silly' at the same time.

You really do have to get it through your heads that something isnt 'proved' just because some geek in a lab made some maths about it to fit some spurious 'evidence' especially if he has rejected something more sensible just because he wasnt smart enough to make maths to prove it.

[ghost]

Speaking of black holes, a 16 year old girl killed herself drinking poison in India because she didn't want to bear the death of being sucked into a black hole that could have been 'caused' by the hadron particle collider... how sad is that?

Have black holes really been proved yet? I am just curious of this. Thought this was already proved with the vast technology we have like the hubble, hipparcos, and all the funky telescopes: I am currently studying Astrophysics for Physics at school and I am learning all this stuff, and I gotta remember this and remember that.. blah.

I have always doubted the big bang theory myself, how did it begin, and what caused it to begin, and how did the thing that caused the big bang start? Maybe people wanted to give things reason, when maybe things aren't meant to be reasoned at all??

[Mystic]

I have always doubted the big bang theory myself, how did it begin, and what caused it to begin, and how did the thing that caused the big bang start? Maybe people wanted to give things reason, when maybe things aren't meant to be reasoned at all??

At last a genuine thinker, you said it better than I could. I sincerely hope the education system doesnt discipline the original thinking out of you as it has to so many others.

What Ifind really funny is the way some (not all) of those scientists chat knowingly about how this hardon accelerator is going to replicate the moments immediately after the big bang. Come on, what the hell is that supposed to mean???

So someone out there is so clever they know what happened 9 billion years ago and it just happened to be 2 protons smashing into each other, no doubt fired at each other through Gods very own hardon accelerator.

[Aliotroph?]

The big bang idea came from the observation that everything is generally moving further away from other things in the universe. If they're moving away they may well have started at the same point. Note, that they don't say everything was in a big rock in an empty space; they figure space itself was compressed into something that small and there can be easily an infinite number of things outside of it. Most of the idea is math and that's why it's a theory and not a law.

As for the LHC creating such conditions, again it's just the idea of having a bunch of super-hot stuff packed so close together. The idea being that regular atoms don't hold together in a situation like that. They know full well they could be very wrong about such conditions and one of them said in one of those articles if they don't find their theoretical Higgs boson (who makes up the names anyway?) they're gonna have fun trying to figure out why. Somehow I can see lots of hand wringing over the reliability of their software, the calibration and accuracy of their detectors, and the reliability of their magnetic coils. Heh, glad I don't work on that thing.

That's why they built the thing though. They have a prediction from their current theory about how particles are put together and if they can't confirm it they need a new test method or a new theory. Has happened a few times before and will again.

[Doom_Dude]

I don't agree or disagree with the Big Band theory. I don't think anybody really knows how it all started and I prefer to remain neutral on the matter. I really question why everything was in the same area. Maybe universe 1.0 blew up and made this new one. (that bit was a joke) :p Just looking at the photos taken by the Hubble telescope is more interesting than some theory about big bangs.

Also found this after I posted. lol....

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3954/183351938557526xo9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mystic]

DD, thanks for that cartoon, its a cracker (thumbs up icon)

So, if that higs bottom doesnt show up in the hardon accelerator they will squander billions more on a bigger hardon machine???

I know exactly what they will learn from it, they will learn what happens when you smash two protons together, thats it, no birth of the universe, just two squished protons.

I know I come across as churlish at times but it really irks me that people can so easily convince themselves they know the mystery of the universe through some observations of galaxies aparently moving away from a common area. The Universe has been around for a very long time compared to man, what we have observed isnt even a flea fart in a monkeys armpit compared to what we have missed and what is still to happen, wether the universe is billions of years old or eternal doesnt matter.

I do suspect that the hardon machine isnt what we are being told, that there must be a military side to things otherwise the billions wouldnt be made available.

I wish scientists would try to do more useful things like invent a teleport device or a time machine. I think a teleport is the only feasible method of interstellar travel. Scientists will have to start to take the supernatural/paranormal more seriously if they are ever to crack that problem because thats where the answers lie hidden.

[Aliotroph?]

Methinks if they find nothing new they'll spend 30 years arguing over why and another 50 before they get the combination of ambition and funding for any fancy machinery. This one was 30 years in the making as it is. Considering what governments spend on militaries they should be diverting half that on average to science and engineering problems. Of course, try convincing the Russians of that once they realize they could then conquer everything around them.

I see no teleporters or space travel for the forseeable future. Not really worried about it. Will settle for floor-washing robots: the ultimate feat of modern engineering.

LOL I do like that comic. :D

[blood imp]

Have any of you ever gave anything like the 'big bang' theory any thought of your own??? I mean actually sitting down and just thinking about it, not looking at mathematical equations, not regurgitating your college lecturers ideas, just sitting there thinking your own original thoughts right out of your own head???
Never actually watched Star Trek :p
As for that, I have thought about it. And I agree with you, it doesn't make too much sense. Once I try to imagine infinite nothingness and a point (well, there can't really be a point within nothing, can there?), my imagination goes blank, as I'm pretty sure a human mind can't really think of infinite non-space without picturing empty space. The whole concept is really silly, I agree. I mean, what the hell was there before this 14 billion or so years of space? Is there anything beyond space? And how the hell are there 12 dimensions and shit? Ah well.
Seeing as in the foreseeable future, I won't be studying the origins of our universe all too seriously, and as far as I see whether the universe exploded out of nothing or out of a rat's ass it doesn't affect me, so I don't think about it too much unless I'm bored or read some interesting article.
However, since I don't know squat about the physics and math behind all these theories and theorems and whatnot, I take it for granted that "scientists" aren't making up 90% of the numbers they spew, so I tend to go along with most of their ideas about things I don't get.
And common sense doesn't always mean truth.

they will squander billions more on a bigger hardon machine
Eww... :p

[sLydE]

So, if that higs bottom doesnt show up in the hardon accelerator they will squander billions more on a bigger hardon machine???
According to the hundreds of emails I get a day, it wouldn't cost billions.

[CrazedImp]

Its true that if the experiment doesn't work they will just try again with a bigger and slightly altered machine. You can complain all you want but the scientists will always want to satisfy their curiosity. Even if it is true that some things should never be explained. But way back when people thought the same thing about gravity and physics, so I guess this isn't really any different in that sense.

[Mystic]

Well it is a bit different, the effect of gravity has alway been visible, Newton just gave it a name and pondered its cause. Physics is usually about real things.

Im interested in physics, chemistry, biology etc, even astronomy. It just really annoys me when the astronomers try to make me swallow stuff thats obviously just been pulled out someones arse.

Astronomers seem able to make up any crap they want whenever that grant is due for renewal

[rustyslacker]

Ugh. Just shut up

[Doom_Dude]

Take a look at this page --> Haahaa! (http://largehardoncollider.com/) *roflmao* <-- How funny is it, that the New York Times printed Large Hardon Collider.... ROFL!

[ghost]

LOL *laugh*

That tells you one important thing: never trust the media!

[Mystic]

Im tempted to make a 'large hardon collider' doom map using that mod with the phallic demons. nah, that would wreck my good reputation.

[Aliotroph?]

Yeah, it would wreck it so much more than Mummy Phuquers! *rofl*

[Mystic]

but I thought 'mummy phuquers' enhanced my reputation:(

[Aliotroph?]

Well, the maps probably do. I dunno about the name. lol

[sLydE]

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com
Best. Domain. Ever.