Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement

[+Acyclitor+]

have you guys heard about this yet? ACTA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement), that is Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, is a treaty currently being secretly discussed by the governments of the United States, the European Commission, Japan, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Canada, and Mexico. information was leaked to wikileaks (http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Proposed_US_ACTA_multi-lateral_intellectual_property_trade_agreement_(200 7)), outlining that this Agreement could be a true nightmare scenario. if enacted, this could potentially give authorities the right to search hard-drives, laptops, cellphones, mp3 players, etc. at international borders and force ISP to deliver information about their users without warrants. The worst part of it, however, is that this Trade Agreement would create its own governing body outside of existing national governments.

[Aliotroph?]

Yeah, I read up on that crap. Once again I state these things:

Non-technical people (there should be a test) should not be allowed to make rules regarding technical matters -- under penalty of death
Anybody who supports the freedom of governments, large corporations, or large NGOs over that of individuals is worse than a rapist. Freedom and protection of individuals counts over absolutely everything, including economies.
Any donation of any kind to any politician should be a worse crime than rape. Seriously, they don't need money at all and it doesn't do society any good to let different parties have different amounts.


I'm no libertarian. I want a government that hates companies and companies that hate the government. It's a little bit like having different branches of government, but on a broader scale.

[Giftmacher]

I'm not saying it's good, but doesn't this only really effect you if you have a bunch of illegally downloaded stuff on your laptop? In other words, doesn't it only really effect you if you're a pirate?

[+Acyclitor+]

an invasion of privacy is an invasion of privacy.

but no, it doesn't not only affect you if your a pirate. this agreements purposed IP protections are so draconian that it also makes a powerful censorship tool. wikileaks for example would be forced to remove most of its whistle-blowers uploaded documents.

[ace]

I'm not saying it's good, but doesn't this only really effect you if you have a bunch of illegally downloaded stuff on your laptop? In other words, doesn't it only really effect you if you're a pirate?

Hardly the case. This is giving the authorities permission to search without warrant. This means that even if you are innocent, officials of any kind can go through your crap without rhyme or reason. It has the potential and thensome to create an ongoing scenario similar to the months following 9/11 in which police officers and airport guards went out of hand with profiling anyone who looked Middle Eastern--only now it would be expanded to anyone who "looks" like a pirate. I would guess teenagers with MP3 players would be the first target.

And even if profiling doesn't become a problem, I can guarantee that people will feel that this intrudes beyond any level of privacy. Can you imagine a complete stranger going through some guy's computer and finding porn? Sure, it's not illegal, but it'd be mortifying for sure. Not to mention the possibility of them looking through private email conversations, business documents, etc. They have no right to do that to anyone.

And don't even get me started on the likely accuracy of such a law enforcement. Okay, so they can search hard drives and MP3 players. Then what? How are they going to know what programs/songs are pirated and which aren't? Oh sure, they can track ISPs. But what if someone else used my computer to illegally download so I would take the blame and they would get off scot-free? What if I use a proxy and IP-blocking tools so I can't be tracked? What if I erase the files?

And just how sensitive will they be? Are they only going to search for illegal files when they know for certain I have actually downloaded a file, or are they going to suspect me as soon as I stumble across a website like The Pirate Bay, even if I don't actually download anything?

On top of all of this, I guarantee that as soon as this is passed, the governments will realize how truly impossible this will be to enforce. On top of all of the above problems, the number of people who download music and software illegally is phenomenal. If they were to prosecute every single person guilty of piracy at any time in life, I would be willing to bet that anywhere between a fourth to half of all the Internet-utilizing peoples in the world would be found guilty. Good luck staying economically sound when that large a portion of the populace is either fined or sent to jail (or both).

If the authorities cannot search suspected drug dealers or other criminals without a warrant, they damn well shouldn't be able to search my electronics for pirated goods without one (they shouldn't really be allowed to at all, for that matter). The minute something like this happens is the minute a revolution will be inevitably set into motion. The more laws like this get passed, the deeper they will end up digging their graves.

To hell with Big Brother.

[CrazedImp]

We wouldn't be getting stupid laws like this if people would just stop pirating things all the damn time. I don't get why they don't get it through their heads. If you can't pay for it, save up for it. Its a simple concept. And people who pirate and complain about stuff like this only have themselves to blame anyway.

But this is taking anti-piracy to the extreme. Its not fair to search through peoples personal storage, regardless if they are a pirate or not. Like Ace said, the accuracy of such a thing would be questionable. This is why we need more computer-knowledgeable people in government so that they realise stupid shit like this just doesn't work. If anything if this agreement gets passed it will be easier for people to pirate things, because they can pin the blame on somebody else and get away with it.

They need to wake up and realise there is no real way to stop piracy apart from hoping that the people who do pirate things will get a sense of decency and get music, games and movies the way everybody else does.

[Giftmacher]

Scary stuff, any chance this'll get put into effect? *cacsad*

[rustyslacker]

We wouldn't be getting stupid laws like this if people would just stop pirating things all the damn time. I don't get why they don't get it through their heads. If you can't pay for it, save up for it. Its a simple concept. And people who pirate and complain about stuff like this only have themselves to blame anyway.
Don't say stupid things. We both know piracy is not going to stop.
Freedom and protection of individuals counts over absolutely everything, including economies.
Quoted for truth.

[CrazedImp]

Don't say stupid things. We both know piracy is not going to stop.
Unfortunately, this is the case. Bye bye privacy.

[ace]

Piracy will not stop and putting laws like this into order will only harm the ones who aren't pirating anything.

But I hate to say it, CrazedImp, a lot of people who pirate don't just do it because they can't save up or don't want to fork over the cash. Music is largely the most illegally-downloaded media, and quite frankly, I don't blame the people who do it. When the RIAA (http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/when-pigs-fly-death-of-oink-birth-of.html) is responsible for ridiculous (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96797,00.html) shit (http://www.boingboing.net/2003/09/25/riaa-sues-grandmothe.html) like (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071004-verdict-is-in.html) this (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050204-4587.html), I can't say I blame piracy (http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/02/01/file_trading_manifesto/index.html) for a dwindling record industry at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Oh sure, in the end you can boil it down to the fact that piracy led to this whole mess. However, it has been the RIAA, MPAA, major software developers and government bigshots that have improperly handled the situation. They have attempted to address the problem in all the wrong ways. And I guarantee they won't win. They can't.

[+Acyclitor+]

Scary stuff, any chance this'll get put into effect? *cacsad*Its tough to say really, since there is no information of what is going on inside these negotiations. because it is being done without any level of transparency, I think its better to assume the worst.

[<<-Jimmy->>]

If your a pirate, and if this goes into place. Which I highly doubt it will because of privacy and whatnot, just disconnect your pc.

[Heidi]

Gets thumbs up from me. Only terrorists, pedophiles and pirates should be scared.

[+Acyclitor+]

Gets thumbs up from me. Only terrorists, pedophiles and pirates should be scared.so, would you feel good having these tools in place if a radically liberal administration where in power? its a small step from this sinister piece of legislation to something much worse. this ACTA, as well as other such Agreements and bills, set a precedent that could open a flood-gate of legislation aimed at censorship and the removal of political opponents by those in power. by supporting shit like this, Bush's warrantless wiretaps, ect - you're supporting a long-term foundation of totalitarianism for minimal (and ineffective) protection from short-term threats like terrorism.

[Heidi]

so, would you feel good having these tools in place if a radically liberal administration where in power?

Nope, who knows what evil they would use it for.

[+Acyclitor+]

exactly my point

[Heidi]

Don't worry, we'll have McCain for a while.

[+Acyclitor+]

I don't share your confidence. Obama and Mccain barely show any difference in the latest polls, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see Obama pull it off. he has a lot of new voters coming out of the wood-work for him, many for the wrong reasons unfortunately.

its too bad Ron Paul didn't make it. He won in my county though, so at least I have that little victory.

bah, whats it matter to me though? give me 7-8 years and I won't be a US citizen anymore. fuck the EU too - their in on this ACTA shit.

[Heidi]

It really depends on the polls ;) , but Obama is a joke, they put him there just to guarantee that even the least favorite Republican would beat him.

[FATAL]

Haha, USA.

[+Acyclitor+]

Nope, who knows what evil they would use it for.Don't worry, we'll have McCain for a while.but Obama is a joke, they put him there just to guarantee that even the least favorite Republican would beat him. hows that working out for you?

[rustyslacker]

hows that working out for you?
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4664/hmicdonexh7.jpg