TeamTNT's Return From Oblivion: Released

[ReX]

TeamTNT's latest project Return From Oblivion: DooM Eternal IV is complete and has been released. Look for it to appear in /newstuff soon.

This is a ZDooM project. All maps are: (i) medieval-themed, and generally very large compared to typical DooM maps; (ii) non-linear and feature multiple paths; (iii) feature castle and fortress architecture, fights on an epic scale, and magnificent vistas. This is a 7-map demo. TeamTNT intends to create a full megawad next.

[Ninja_of_DooM]

At last. :D I'll be watching for this one indeed.

[jake250]

TeamTNT? Aren't these the guys who made TNT, Plutonia and Icarus? Those awful wads?

[Nemesis]

TeamTNT? Aren't these the guys who made TNT, Plutonia and Icarus? Those awful wads?

The same guys, and I wouldn't say they're awful. I actually liked them a lot. Then again, different strokes, etc.

Makes me wish I had my own damn PC now to try the demo. D:

[SgtMagor]

hope someday TNT would consider making there megawads RISEN3D compatible :)

[FMofdeath]

So are there going to be melee weapons or will it be the same as Doom just with the different map themes or like Heretic?

[ReX]

One small note of correction. The text file says:

Other game styles : (co-op starts only in Maps 11-13, but not tested)

Actually there are co-op starts in Map27 as well, and that map has been tested for co-op.

This correction will be made in the text file soon.

[EDIT: Another inadvertent omission from the text file - jumping has been expressly diabled in Map13.]

[Doom_Dude]

Accckkk I was all set to get the download now. :p

Congrats to Team TNT for getting anouther project done. :D I look forward to playing this as I'm big on the medieval themed maps.

Wait Nemesis said demo? Zuh?

[MR_ROCKET]

Awesome, Spiffy, Can't wait ! ;)

[g6672D]

Mmmm. I liked Evilution's maps. This sounds pretty tasty. BTW, there's a demo available for those who can't wait.

http://www.teamtnt.com/rfo/ed4_rfo1.zip

(Whoops, my mistake, it wasn't a full version!)

[Doom_Dude]

So the link on the TNT site is the demo?

[edit] nevermind.... I re-read ReX's post and the release IS a demo and they eventually plan to make this a full megawad. I missed the part about the demo when I first read it. heh. I had it in my mind that this release was the full project.

[FMofdeath]

'Bout time for a Demo I suppose? Lol

[CrazedImp]

Bah, too overly scripted. Just let us go into the levels and start shooting crap without having to sit through unskippable text scenes.

[jake250]

The same guys, and I wouldn't say they're awful. I actually liked them a lot. Then again, different strokes, etc.
Yeah, well I hate a "lot" of wads and levels, mainly for coop. Some things are completely unfair and not fun at all, its just horribly flawed in too many spots, but well, thats my opinion. Lot of people do enjoy it.

[Nemesis]

Yeah, well I hate a "lot" of wads and levels, mainly for coop. Some things are completely unfair and not fun at all, its just horribly flawed in too many spots, but well, thats my opinion. Lot of people do enjoy it.

I guess I'm the opposite. I like large levels where it's you vs. 100+ monsters wanting to rip you a new asshole. Sure I might die multiple times, but I like the satisfaction of bringing down as many foes as I can with me.

Then again, I'm a messed up individual, seeing as I'd play a coop level all by myself and enjoy it. :D;

[FMofdeath]

I guess I'm the opposite. I like large levels where it's you vs. 100+ monsters wanting to rip you a new asshole. Sure I might die multiple times, but I like the satisfaction of bringing down as many foes as I can with me.

Then again, I'm a messed up individual, seeing as I'd play a coop level all by myself and enjoy it. :D;
That seems to be the big co-op thing in the Zdaemon community. Only ones like that I liked were UAC Invasion 1-3 because they were done well instead of a big room with a few stadiums with 100+ monsters. UAC Invasion kept the puzzle and segregated the huge rooms of monters.

[Heidi]

This game is really good as far as level design is concerned, but I won't bother going back to it if they decide to keep that bullshit text in, it's annoying and useless.

[ReX]

...but I won't bother going back to it if they decide to keep that bullshit text in, it's annoying and useless.
1. The mission briefing is optional. After the start you can go directly to the teleporter and skip the mission briefing completely. It says so clearly in the opening text.
2. You may think the mission briefing is "useless", but I suspect that without it you would be completely lost in the hub.
3. The other text messages are, at best, a minor annoyance as they take an average of 5 second each. They serve a purpose for the first-time player of the hub, but I'll accept that they can be done away with for repeat players. We'll see what we can do for the next release.
4. If you believe the game is "really good" then sitting through a few seconds of "annoying and useless" text may be a small price to pay. But it's your choice - it's a free country and it's a free game.

[g6672D]

Text aside, it's well worth downloading. The map designs are excellent.

[jake250]

Couldn't get far in the map. Start, some texts.... get in the crypt, get killed by rocket guy - we all love rockets.

Try another. Take a weapon, a new "dark imp" spawn in front of me, and I get butchered instantly by something from behind. Right.

First death got me started to begining, but second one had a save.. Tried to go on, and I must say there is absolutely nothing fun? And no music? I couldn't handle playing any farther than 1 or 2 minutes in.

Good map designs yes, but I could care less about that... and the eye candy is kind of ruined when you very easily recognize textures from other wads, like Hexen.

Now I know its just a demo.. it better be better than that.

[Doom_Dude]

Speaking of text..... the thing I don't like is a text message that is so small I have to get close to my monitor to read it and when I do it disappears anyways. Tiny text messages that flash on your screen and you get to read half is annoying. Yeah, I know you can read that stuff in the console but I shouldn't have to open the console to see what the message(s) are saying. I think it would be a BIG improvement if THAT was fixed.

[Grazza]

There is a display option (message options) that helps with that: "scale text in high res".

[Doom_Dude]

Hay thanks Grazza, that works great. I'm less annoyed now. :D

[ace]

Okay, just played through Schloss Adler. So far it's pretty good; nothing revolutionary (I wouldn't expect that anyway, however, these days), but good nevertheless.

On the bright side, for such an enormous map, not once did I become disoriented--and that says alot, because I usually get completely lost with maps of such a scale. To me this is a sign of a strong layout; to be able to make maps of epic proportions without making the process of gameplay too confusing is a very good thing. Managed to play through the map in about 45 minutes with little to no confusion at all, though I did have to look a while for the rune switch (but I would have expected that).


As for the gameplay, for the most part it is difficult (I may try playing again on skill 2, I just found myself short on health a bit too often for my tastes on HMP), but it usually isn't downright frustrating. There were only three problem areas, in my opinion:

1. The opening area was very dark. Darkness isn't usually a huge problem, but it becomes one when it gets in the way of seeing things as vital as a rocket launcher zombie. Had it been just slightly brighter, that would not have been as frustrating, and I have a feeling that having such a big turnoff so early in the game does more harm than good.

2. The inclusion of the vampire bats. Perhaps it's just me being picky, but I automatically begin to like a WAD a whole lot less when I see those damned bats. I just personally find them to be the most annoying monster ever to have been created for Doom (Doom3 included).

3. The damaging effect on the waste in the underground/crypt area of the map. Either a radiation suit or more health (or removing the effect, of course) would have saved this entire section for me. As it was, I entered the area with about 30 health, and when you're in a pit that does 5-10 damage per second with only one medkit given in the whole opening section, it automatically brings it to the brink of infuriation. There really was no way for me to get out of there without cheating, unfortunately.


Otherwise, I like what I see so far, and I'm definitely liking it a truckload more than I did Daedalus. I can't really say much having only played one out of 7 maps, but so far I haven't found absolute reason to trash it, at the least. And of course, I should note that the grandeur and architecture of the maps are, of course, very nice.

[ReX]

Notes about Schloss Adler.....
Very constructive suggestions for improvement. Thank you. The team (particularly me, being the map author) will address your comments in the next release (if any), and certainly for the full megawad (again, if any. Heh).

[Dutch Devil]

I played this for an bit looks very beautiful I like the huge open maps and the cool architecture this demo alone is allready worth an caco award nice job guys 32 maps of this it would blow me away :p

[Doom_Dude]

Dammit.... I played as far as the bat trap in the Crypt and had saved just before that. Sooo what happened next is a bit of stupidity. I was playtesting my NDCP map and speed saved over my Oblivion save. Now I gotta start over. Damn....

I didn't find the opening area dark at all, not like ace described. The recessed areas in the room with the rocket launcher zombie are dark (but it looks ok IMHO) and I didn't see the dude at first but I was looking at a coffin thinghy and he blew me up. Next time I went in there I killed the dude no problem.

I haven't seen the other maps beyond the Crypt level but so far I like what I see.... the courtyards and such all look pretty nice. I like that one trap with the revenant. That's my kind of trap. :D

I'm playing on UV and I got hemmed on some architecture when that flying spider jobby shot the crap out of me. I had ten health so I ran into the room and somehow survived and nailed that thing with rockets. I gotta restart this wad.... I was enjoying the start of it at least. ;)

[ReX]

Now I gotta start over. Damn....
The beauty of the hub (at least according to me), is that you can start on a different map if you so desire. Then, when you return to Map08 you will find the gameplay (enemies and powerups) considerably different. I set up the hub so that you can begin in any map and travel to any other map from that map. The first time you play the game if you begin on, say, Map10 you'll experience a certain level of gameplay (typically easier because you don't have all the weapons and have not accumulated ammo, and with different enemies/power-ups). The next time you play the game if you begin on, say, Map09 and then return to Map10, you will find the gameplay more difficult and with different enemies and powerups. This lends replay value to the hub.

[I shall end my shameless self-promotion now.]

[REoL]

TeamTNT's latest project Return From Oblivion: DooM Eternal IV is complete and has been released. Look for it to appear in /newstuff soon.

Blah, blah, blah. An old-fart org releasing a map. Who cares about the old names anymore? Nobody cares unless they're new.

Meanwhile, look for the new REoL TOUGH Dual-map at DooM's 15'th anniversary.

:D :D :D: :D :D

[Giftmacher]

I love how you have to insult a great team just to advertise your own map.

[ReX]

Blah, blah, blah. An old-fart org releasing a map. Who cares about the old names anymore? Nobody cares unless they're new..... Meanwhile, look for the new REoL TOUGH Dual-map at DooM's 15'th anniversary.
Shit! Run for the hills! George Fiffy is back.

Just kidding. Welcome back King REoL.

[Doom_Dude]

Interesting hub set up ReX (just read your post). I wouldn't have a clue how to do set something like that up.

I restarted and I'm in the Castle of the Eagle (or whatever it's called) and so far, so good. No complaints yet.... ;) I definitely think it's cool that you can start on different levels.

I love how you have to insult a great team just to advertise your own map.I think he is trying to say he is the olde fart or something. :p

[Giftmacher]

I don't know, it sounded like he was calling TNT the "old farts", because they've been doing maps for a long long time.

[ReX]

Interesting hub set up ReX (just read your post). I wouldn't have a clue how to do set something like that up.
It's all done through a hub, which ZDooM (and some other ports) supports, and scripting. Lots and lots of scripting. You can use an editor to open up the scripts and see what I did, otherwise I can send you an explanation in as simple terms as possible. The logic is what's more complicated - the sytax and command structure are relatively straightforward once you get the logic straight.

I don't know, it sounded like he was calling TNT the "old farts", because they've been doing maps for a long long time.
Yes, he was calling us old farts. Considering he's a senior citizen himself and has been mapping for a long time, that's like a pot calling the kettle black. But then he was always known for sticking his foot in his mouth.

[REoL]

I love how you have to insult a great team just to advertise your own map.

You....didn't.....get.....the.....joke.....Did you?

Old fart -vs- Old fart. Get it now?

Hopefully you'll find it semi-humorous now. :)

PS: No, I do not dislike TeamTNT.

I think he is trying to say he is the olde fart or something. :p

Someone got it....

[Giftmacher]

Agh, made a fool of myself. :p

[Doom_Dude]

It's all done through a hub, which ZDooM (and some other ports) supports, and scripting. Lots and lots of scripting. You can use an editor to open up the scripts and see what I did, otherwise I can send you an explanation in as simple terms as possible. The logic is what's more complicated - the sytax and command structure are relatively straightforward once you get the logic straight.Don't you mean syntax? ;) I'm a total loss when it comes to any complicated scripting so you might as well not bother with any deeper explanation. Thanks anyways ReX.

So how long before Team TNT can turn this into a full megawad? :D

[ReX]

So how long before Team TNT can turn this into a full megawad? :D
Ha! You're joking right? It took us almost 3 years to get 7 maps together. Just imagine how long it will take to get 23+2 more maps done. Of course we only had 3 mappers. Hopefully we'll get more mappers into the team.

On the positive side, we have begun charting our course for the new maps, and Espi has picked the slot for Map28 as a continuation of his Map27 (i.e., using the same texture resources). As a matter of fact he has already started mapping for it. I have suggested he also do Map26 as a prelude to Map27.

We have also begun recruiting experienced (and committed) ZDooM mappers. We're keeping this low-key, as we truly want people who will be committed to the Team and the project.

[Doom_Dude]

Yes of course I'm joking. ;) Haha.... it should take you guys a good decade, now get cracking. :p

Meanwhile I got to play some more today.... finished the Eagle map and made it to the Crypts. There's some good fighting in the maps so far and the wad is certainly interesting. I think maybe the ambient sounds could be spread out a little more but that's just me. The howling wolf.... it's cool but after awhile you want it to shut up.

[REoL]

Reguardelss of the project, it's best to get it done for the 15'th anniversary of either DooM.

[Mudman]

This is the first i've heard of this, sounds really cool though! I'm a big fan of TNT's most popular Doom mods, so ism interested just for more dooming as a whole anyway

The medieval theme sounds interesting though, in a Doom environment kind of brings "Army of Darkness" images to mind.

[Juggy]

This is great...like all the stuff from TNT...

[Jive]

jake250, what did you do yourself, before telling that the work done by the so famous TeamTnT crew is that bad?

"you very easily recognize textures from other wads, like Hexen"
And?
Are you one of those annoying guys always unhappy with the work done by others?

Give me one of your own works, I'll test it and I'll be back with MY comments about it...

I'm really pushed far away from my patience's boundaries when I read such unfriendly comments about the work given for free by others.
It's just a matter of respect, don't you think?

[FATAL]

Without having played the wad, I don't see the comments disrespectful or wrong. Not only do negative comments give a hint to the mapper where things could've been done differently, I find it hard to trust a comment that doesn't mention anything wrong with a map.

[Jive]

I don't see the comments disrespectful or wrong
TeamTNT? Aren't these the guys who made TNT, Plutonia and Icarus? Those awful wads?Pure provocation or disrespect? Some things are completely unfair and not fun at all, its just horribly flawed in too many spotsOnce again, the work made by the TnT Team is flamed.I couldn't handle playing any farther than 1 or 2 minutes in.All of these comments are respectful and right?!?

[Jive]

Don't get me wrong: my purpose was not to begin a war, but to call for respect toward authors, giving the fruit of their hard work for free.
Peace!
;)

[Giftmacher]

Negative comments are the best kind, anyone putting things onto the internet should know that. I don't see how saying something is flawed is disrespectful just because they're releasing is for free.

[ReX]

Negative comments are the best kind, anyone putting things onto the internet should know that.
The thing with opinions is that they're like assholes: everybody's got one. Furthermore, negative opinions for the sake of being inflammatory help no-one, and the internet makes it easy for people to voice asinine opinions in relative anonymity. Constructive criticism, on the other hand, goes a long way to fostering a dialog and contributing to product improvement. So, no, negative comments are not always "the best kind".

Please note that my comments here are not specifically pointed at Jake250; rather, I am responding to Giftmacher's statement about negative comments.

I don't see how saying something is flawed is disrespectful just because they're releasing is for free.
I agree that we shouldn't respect people simply because they're doing things for free. However, we should not be disrespectful simply for the sake of being so. The internet allows people to be jerks with little consequences. Those same people are probably jerks in the real world anyway, but they would not get away with disrespectful behavior with the same degree of impunity as they do on the internet.

[Doom_Dude]

What ReX said....

[Jive]

Amen ReX, amen!!!
I want to add that whom is writing negative comments, like Jake250 made it, has simply the behavior of a jerk, period ! His behavior was highly disrespectful, telling from the high point of his elevated mind that Team TnT has to be forgotten since they released shitty pwads...
Jesus!!!!
Some people seem to have forgotten what means "basic RESPECT"
Of course, Giftmacher is completely wrong, and I strongly disagree with Fatal.
For me, writing bad comments about the work made by someone on a public forum is the sign of a bad education. It's of NO help for nobody.

Let me be like those jerks:
Jake250... Isn't this guy the same who is pleased to write awful comments and to use words already written by other guys of the same kind?
looooooool

Did you ever read something like that written by... let's say Espi ?
Most of the time, those "critics" are not even able to build a good and applauded wad by themselves....
How significant it is: you will pretty never (apart rare exceptions) read bad comments written by an estimated author about another author, but from users having never given anything to the community.

Come on guys, our society is dying thanks to a lack of basic education and a lack of common sens of the respect of its members.

To conclude: jake250, I simply pointed an error that you made. I made myself such an error by the recent past, and I am very thankful to FreeLanZer (Jacob Østergaard) who pointed it, giving to me the opportunity to rectify my own behavior. I acted myself like a jerk with Kurikai and FreeLanZer about HighRes textures made for Jdoom (and for Gzdoom). Today, I'm less bad than by the recent past... Will you follow me on the same road? ;)

[Mr. Chris]

So, what is the status of this megawad since it has been reanimated almost a year later?

[sLydE]

I completely missed this apparently. Maybe I'll download ZDoom to play it sometime when I get a chance.

[Jive]

Image signatures are a waste of bandwidth.I'm hosting the pictures on my own site, and the waste of bandwidth is my own decision, supported by me.
But I agree with you: a lot of signatures using pictures are a waste of something: a waste of space on the page displaying them when they are heavy, a waste of time for whom is looking at it when they are out of their field of interest, but... Each time, they are the choice made freely by whom is using this way to share a message, and, if the forum is offering this opportunity, I don't see where is the problem.
The only signatures pissing me are the ones using flash, or being animated.

About the megawad made by Team TnT, I would be pleased to know if there are still mappers working on it.
ReX ?

[ReX]

So, what is the status of this megawad since it has been reanimated almost a year later?
About the megawad made by Team TnT, I would be pleased to know if there are still mappers working on it.
ReX ?
Here is the short version:
1. A few months after the initial release last year we recruited two very talented ZDooM modders - Nigel 'Enjay' Rowand and Björn 'Vader' Ostmann.
2. We had considerable discussions on a story-line, the player's overall mission, some map-specific objectives, etc.
3. Enjay began work on a couple of maps and Vader started developing a layout for one of his maps.
4. Espi discovered that he had a type of cancer (known as epithelioid sarcoma) in his arm. He subsequently had to have his arm amputated, and is undergoing rahbilitation with a prosthetic arm. Understandably, DooM editing & the RFO project are low on his list of priorities. He is very enthusiastic, nonetheless, and promises to return and complete at least one more epic-scale map.
5. I became buried with work, and in my spare time I have been struggling to make progress on my own project, Paranoid.
6. Chris Couleur is also swamped with work.
7. As soon as I get done with Paranoid I will mobilize the troops and get us back on track.

[Jive]

So, you are a Team TnT's member?!?
Woha....
Let me thank this Team for the fantastic job they done during a so long time, and... congrats!!