Gas prices, global warming & nascar

[Props025]

What is the reason for the spike in gas prices? I can't be to sure about this comment, but if it has anything to do with limitability, and trying to prevent excessive amounts of consumption(also dealing with global warming)....if this is the case, and most economies thrive on fuel.....

If global warming is true and mainly attributed to the CO2 output from motor vehicles....

Wouldn't it make sense to disband a 100+ lap means of entertainment....even though it makes people a lot of money...just to spare the other non-racing people of this planet agony in prices and a possible global pollution?

[blood imp]

Yes, I suppose it would, although there are much more efficient methods which are less of a pain on our entertainment industry.

[Doom_Dude]

[edit] Wow I didn't realize you guys were talking about nascar until after my big rant post. I saw gas + global warming and got fired up. heh. oh well... Maybe Nascar should change over to bicycles! LOL BUT I don't see how disbanding a couple hundred cars would help when theres millions of cars driving around at the same time (ok I looked up the total and theres 600 million cars out there (no wait that was 1997 and I can't find the 2007 total)......600 fucking million and by 2030 estimates say there will be 1,200,000,000 vehilces on the planet.... O_o) I need a beer. Apparently Nascar isn't the problem, it's all these other vehicles.

It won't be disbanded or changed because a lot of big wigs are making a lot of big bucks on the current motor vehicle industry, worldwide. They don't want to change, they want profit. [edit] Same goes for nascar... thats big bucks for the ones who run it and the fans would all get pissed if you even suggested such a thing. :p

I would like to know why they haven't come up with a more efficient engine, even if it's one that runs on gas. The Internal Combustion Engine is how old... over a 150 years? O_o Why are we still using this thing? Profit? Will we still be using this in another 150 years.

Also is it an urban myth or the truth when you hear stories like, Joe Blow invented a more efficient carburetor and the manufacturers bought they dudes patent, which will never see the light of day. Afterall the car manufacturers and the gas companies have their hands in each others pockets. Is this shit true? If so, then we will never see the end of the gas era until the reserves are all gone.

But the way gas prices are rising who will be able to afford to run a car in the near future, besides buy one?

Also speaking of global warming, due to areas in the Arctic melting and becoming more accessible, the gas and oil barons want to get up there and start drilling for the resources asap. They're waiting like vultures and rubbing their hands together. So why should they give a shit about changing the system when the way things are going they'll profit from the global warming they helped to cause in the first place.

The Earth is fucked.

[rustyslacker]

I would like to know why they haven't come up with a more efficient engine, even if it's one that runs on gas. The Internal Combustion Engine is how old... over a 150 years? O_o Why are we still using this thing? Profit? Will we still be using this in another 150 years.
Actually, some teams have switched over to ethanol or biodiesel.

Not that it's helping too much in the grand scheme of things, but it's a start. *thumbs*

[Props025]

I can only second DooM_Dudes post.

Though...and I'm sure the big wigs are looking for this....why should we "try" to make a dent in stopping the destruction of the earth, if it starts with Nascar, it could lead to larger fuel consuming/earth polluting events/business.

[<<-Jimmy->>]

I never understood the interest for watching cars run in circles for hours on end, it's a waste of time, money, and most importantly it's damageing the enviroment I don't think some people realize there is only one earth. and if we screw this one up there's no where else to go!

[blood imp]

I don't get it either. I seriously have no idea what people see in the "sport".

Recently at school we watched this video about General Motors releasing some "EV1" (Electric Car) in California, letting people drive for a couple... months(?) and then taking them all back to be destroyed. It's really stupid. They were getting VERY good feedback from costumers, there was a WAITING LIST to buy these new, "green" cars, they were much much better for the environment than our current gas-guzzlers or even Biodiesel/Ethanol, and yet GM took them back, and recycled them.

The reason? Pressure from the oil industry. These fuckers have a tight hold on car manufacturers and shit, and even on the US government. Electric cars would of course greatly decrease the demand for gas, so yeah.

[Giftmacher]

Even though we are screwing up the Earth, I think there's still a (somewhat small) chance global warming is a natural thing. The planet has been changing temperature since the beginning of time, after all. I'm very uninformed, though, so my opinion is pretty uneducated.

[blood imp]

There is always that possibility. But wether (spelling mistake?) the cause is natural or man-made, we're going to be fucked if we don't do anything.

[ace]

What is the reason for the spike in gas prices?

Oh, there's loads of reasons.

It's the oil companies' over-the-top profiteering.
It's the consumers' unending demand to soup up their SUVs in spite of the rising prices. It's the fact that everyone is getting the majority of their oil from the Middle East, and that that very source just so happens to be the one of the three most fargone places in the world currently.
It's the fact that millions of dollars' worth of oil there is continually being stolen there because of insecurity.
It's because of car companies are not willing to redesign their vehicles for new energy sources.
It's because of the war.
And it's because of the fact that the some of the biggest oil tycoons in the world also currently happen to be some of the biggest political leaders in the world--a very fast recipe for corruption.

Stopping Nascar would do absolutely shit, considering the above, to help slow down global warming or, more particularly, lower gas prices. And it's not going to stop. Once we've drained Saudi Arabia dry, we're going to move on to Africa. Once that's gone, we'll finally cave in on the arctic oil issue--we'll be needing our fix too badly to worry about controversy then. After that's used up, we'll actually finally dig into our OWN damn reserves, just as a last resort. Of course, it will finally be THEN that people really, truly worry about finding a new fuel source, because we'll actually have to then.

That is assuming that we don't bomb ourselves or create a runaway greenhouse effect before then, of course.

The use of oil, by far, has been one of the most severe mistakes in human history. We need to put a stop to it and demand that cars be completely redesigned; engineers have already proven that air compression, electric conduction and hydrogen fueling are all functional, attainable alternatives to internal combustion. But the minute we change, oil tycoons gradually lose their fortune, the auto mechanics of today are put out of work, the car companies must completely change their production and budgets, and the consumers must adapt to rapid, radical change. I just don't think people will let it happen.

I wouldn't say we're screwed. But we're close.



Not that it's helping too much in the grand scheme of things, but it's a start.

On the contrary; it's doing quite a lot of harm. It may all be in good intention, but the increasing demand for ethanol (as opposed to a truly clean, renewable fuel source) has caused a sharp increase in the use of corn, which has given farmers much less to produce for food, which has caused this skyrocket in food prices. Add to that the fact that food inflation is high as it is due to the high price of oil, which must be used to produce and transport the food in the first place, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

What a mess.

[Pieter Enis]

This being the main reason I'm not going to buy a car in the near future. Any time now, we're going to change to another type of fuel and we'll have to change.
At least, I hope so.

[g6672D]

Driving has lots of costs associated with it. I catch the bus or just walk. You know, that thing that we used to do before. :)

[Doom_Dude]

This being the main reason I'm not going to buy a car in the near future. Any time now, we're going to change to another type of fuel and we'll have to change.
At least, I hope so.I doubt the near future is going to see any change in the fuel we burn in cars.

[REoL]

{SNIP}Wouldn't it make sense to disband a 100+ lap means of entertainment....even though it makes people a lot of money...just to spare the other non-racing people of this planet agony in prices and a possible global pollution?

Then you'd have to ban ALL racing.

[Heidi]

Sounds like a river or liberal bullshit to me :)

The sun is losing it's mass, hence our beautiful planet earth is slowly moving away from it, which basically causes the climate to screw up, and that's why you see places like California and Buenos Aires getting snow while the poles continue to melt.

NASCAR forever.

[rustyslacker]

Sounds like a river or liberal bullshit to me :)

The sun is losing it's mass, hence our beautiful planet earth is slowly moving away from it, which basically causes the climate to screw up, and that's why you see places like California and Buenos Aires getting snow while the poles continue to melt.

NASCAR forever.
What the fuck? Is this a joke?

[Heidi]

What the fuck? Is this a joke?

Nope, it is not.

[rustyslacker]

Got a source?

[Heidi]

You can watch the extensive documentary on natgeo (whose exact title I forget) or maybe google for "earth moves away from the sun" with the ""

[rustyslacker]

Alright, I did some googling. Relative to the total mass of the sun, it is losing mass at a fantastically slow rate. And okay, this would cause the Earth to move microscopically away from the sun. Do you have evidence or sources that link this to climate change? From what I've read, the snow in Buenos Aires was caused by a moving Antarctic air mass (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/snow_in_buenos_aires.php). But how does this link to the earth moving away from the sun?

Any space nerds want to help clear this up?

[Heidi]

It's all perfectly explained in the documentary, unfortunately I can no longer remember the title.

[lucius octavion]

haha you wouldn't have to ban video racing! :D

[+Acyclitor+]

nascar races are started with a prayer. pretty gay, huh? public displays of faith make me puke. not that people don't have a rite to it, I just find it in bad taste.

I hate nascar. has nothing to do with the "sport," its just that my parents watch it all the fucking time. I'm not exaggerating when make this claim: my dad will watch nascar for 12 hours or more in a day if he is able to (has two days off in a string, for example). my house is pretty small and I can here this shit over-commercialized entertainment lobotomy from most places in the house. going off on a rage here, but nascar fans are the worst type of scum in America, symbolic of so much of what is wrong with our society far more than any other particular demographic.

The sun is losing it's mass, hence our beautiful planet earth is slowly moving away from it, which basically causes the climate to screw up, and that's why you see places like California and Buenos Aires getting snow while the poles continue to melt.that makes no sense. if Earth moved away from the sun, the poles would certainly get drastically colder than the other parts of the Earth - although logically the entire surface would cool quite rapidly. why would areas near the equator (closer to the sun) cool while areas farther (the poles) warm?

anyway, as to "banning nascar"... why? they pay for their gas, who cares? its supposed to be a free market. if the car's pollute, so what? it can't be that significant when you consider millions of cars drive around every day and are burning way dirtier fuel that what those souped-up cars get.

in general when it comes to global warming: I've realized its not worth worrying about anymore. mankind reaps what it sows, and its probably too late to do anything about it already. bring on the so called climate crisis, I would just watch the destruction with amusement at this point. "more fun for me," as Carlin said.

[Heidi]

nascar fans are the worst type of scum in America

I thought that title was being disputed by liberals and people showing mediocre poetry in myspace accounts :)

that makes no sense. if Earth moved away from the sun, the poles would certainly get drastically colder than the other parts of the Earth - although logically the entire surface would cool quite rapidly. why would areas near the equator (closer to the sun) cool while areas farther (the poles) warm?

You're not a man of science, neither am I. If I recall correctly, it had something to do with the moon staying where it was while the earth moved away, causing the moon to have less effect on the earth as a satellite, which inevitably altered it's inclination.

[+Acyclitor+]

but I thought the Earth was staying where it was while the Sun was getting smaller, causing the relative change in distance. this isn't adding up. you ought to find this video, because if its as easy to poke holes in as your recalled summary...

[Heidi]

but I thought the Earth was staying where it was while the Sun was getting smaller, causing the relative change in distance. this isn't adding up. you ought to find this video, because if its as easy to poke holes in as your recalled summary...

Nope. From the first google entry: "the Sun is constantly losing mass because of the solar wind. As the mass of the Sun decreases its pull on the Earth decreases and
so the Earth moves slightly further away"

[+Acyclitor+]

alright I get it now. so, whats the evidence?

[Heidi]

The climatic changes.

[+Acyclitor+]

dude, you are bat-shit insane.

and nascar sucks ;)

[deathbecomesme]

i herd this ridiculas claim that global warming is a conspiracy plotted by the government. *???*

[Heidi]

i herd this ridiculas claim that global warming is a conspiracy plotted by the government. *???*

That's exactly the same people claiming that the English Crown and the Bush Family are reptiles *rofl*

[ghost]

That's exactly the same people claiming that the English Crown and the Bush Family are reptiles
So the claims are true then?

[rustyslacker]

in general when it comes to global warming: I've realized its not worth worrying about anymore. mankind reaps what it sows, and its probably too late to do anything about it already. bring on the so called climate crisis, I would just watch the destruction with amusement at this point. "more fun for me," as Carlin said.
This attitude is immature and selfish.

[Giftmacher]

Well humanity does sort of suck. *cachmf*

[Aliotroph?]

ROFL Earth moving far enough away to change the climate in 100 years indeed! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's the kind of crap idea that would come from someone who thinks the whole mess is 6000 years old. Besides, it would get colder if that happened, not warmer. Heidi sounds like one of those students who doesn't look at their numbers in physics class to see if the answer makes any sense at all. I demand a source for this lunacy if you wish to continue to promote it! :D

NASCAR blows. Would be cool if the cars were rigged to fail at random. I like watching machines explode. Humans are collateral damage.

The greatest mistake made by humanity wasn't oil. Oil helped us build tech, which ultimately will be the only thing with even a remote chance of saving us from various kinds of extinction. Yeah, we need to build better things, but it won't be a magical, or instantaneous thing. I see a future of many fuels, including oil, plants, light, nuclear, wind, and forced labour (the most evil fuel in most cases). Oh, and I figure the greatest mistake humanity made was inventing magical dudes in the sky to solve our problems. Not really a mistake we could have avoided though.

I get a good kick out of the global warming crazies. They never propose anything useful to fix it. The climate thing really could be partially a weird blip. On the other hand, the guys using that as an excuse not to have pollution controls deserve to be shot. Do you like breathing poison? Have you been to L.A., Shanghai, Beijing, etc? Breathing yellow clouds ain't fun! Cars certainly ruined local climates quite nicely and I'm sure they have a global effect of some sort -- not that I can say what it is.

If we had a lot of cash on hand I'd say we should build a load of nuclear power in a hurry. Kind of expensive to start that up though, so those will appear more slowly.

[Giftmacher]

I keep thinking that terrorists are going to attack as soon as we run out of oil, and then I scold myself for being so stupid. :p

[+Acyclitor+]

I get a good kick out of the global warming crazies. They never propose anything useful to fix it. The climate thing really could be partially a weird blip. On the other hand, the guys using that as an excuse not to have pollution controls deserve to be shot. Do you like breathing poison? Have you been to L.A., Shanghai, Beijing, etc? Breathing yellow clouds ain't fun! Cars certainly ruined local climates quite nicely and I'm sure they have a global effect of some sort -- not that I can say what it is.pollution control laws could ultimately prove to be a horrible practice. do you want to have to plan your life around your gas rations? the real way to cut pollution is to a) develop something cleaner, b) subsidize the cost so it can be quickly affordable to the general population, and c) offer incentives to buy the technology, such as making it tax deductible.

This attitude is immature and selfish.how so? I didn't mean don't try for a better future, I meant that whatever happens (which I think is most likely going to be bad), I'm not gonna stress myself bald over it and instead just try to enjoy the amazing spectacle of history.

[ghost]

I keep thinking that terrorists are going to attack as soon as we run out of oil, and then I scold myself for being so stupid.

Oh dear, the evil Bush has semi-brainwashed you with evil comments about evil terrorists. How evil. J/K

@Acyclitor: Totally agree with you.

[Heidi]

ROFL Earth moving far enough away to change the climate in 100 years indeed! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's the kind of crap idea that would come from someone who thinks the whole mess is 6000 years old. Besides, it would get colder if that happened, not warmer. Heidi sounds like one of those students who doesn't look at their numbers in physics class to see if the answer makes any sense at all. I demand a source for this lunacy if you wish to continue to promote it! :D

First off, I never mentioned anything about 100 years. Second off, the earth's climate hasn't stopped changing since the earth became earth, it's not something that started 6000 years ago. Anyone who's spent sometime in school should know that.

Third off, the issue here is not "close sun = warm" or "distant sun = cold", it's about the earth losing it's natural inclination due to the situation I mentioned in previous posts. Do a quick research on what would happen if the earth's inclination was something like 90 dgrees or changed constantly and randomly; we would have the earth we had before the moon, which means, total disaster and no life.

And as I said before, I keep forgetting the name of the documentary, so if you don't feel like investigating this on your own, you're better off assuming I'm simply being an antagonist for the hell of it and that I made this all up to piss you off, I will not oppose.

Anyways, if you believe all that liberal bullshit blaming everything disgraceful to the earth on cars and cow farts, fine, but what I learned in the documentary makes a lot of more sense to me and I guess people will always stick to what makes more sense to them.

[Aliotroph?]

It doesn't make any sense for astronomically huge things to move enough within a human timescale for the climate to change rapidly. Something like that would be such a continuous process that we'd have to completely change our model of the solar system, life, evolution, and god knows what else just to make it work. There's either something else going on there that you're forgetting or you found a documentary made by fools.

And I never said a damn thing about cars doing it all. I said cars spew crap. It certainly does something, not least of which is make it hard to breathe. What exactly do Americans have against buses and trains anyway? (This applies to a large number of Canadians too.)

[+Acyclitor+]

actually the moon is moving away from the earth (as well as becoming tidally locked), but its happening on a infinitesimally small scale. some History Channel show I watched once claimed that the Earth's axis inclination shifted by one degree over the last 5,000 years due to this, but I can't remember at the moment what the evidence they gave was. it wasn't particularly interesting.

but logically, if the Earth moved away from the sun / sun lost enough mass for the same effect, than Earth's gravity would have even more pull on the moon as the Sun's massive influence would be lessened slightly.

What exactly do Americans have against buses and trains anyway? (This applies to a large number of Canadians too.)my hometown doesn't even have public transportation. If I lived in town, I would bike and walk a lot more. as it is, I have to drive for about 15 minuets at about 50mph (about 80kph I think), to get anywhere. its easy to forget sometimes, but the majority of the population in the states actually lives outside of the cities. small cities, towns, and rural areas rarely have any sort of public transportation. in the very large cities, its not uncommon for people to almost never drive their cars if they even own one.

[Aliotroph?]

Ahh yes, the moon is a strange thing. I have a book floating around in here somewhere by Isaac Asimov, detailing the way orbiting bodies like the Earth and moon behave. He applied the same idea to stars too, while trying to decide how likely it might be to have planets around binaries.

Heh, small towns. That would suck for me. I need to live within walking distance of many things and bus/train distance for most of the rest. Not being able to drive kind of dictates that stuff. I know my fair share of people who insist on driving absolutely everywhere though. Makes me wanna smack them sometimes.

[Heidi]

It doesn't make any sense for astronomically huge things to move enough within a human timescale for the climate to change rapidly

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zWXGvlDSYFA

With the extraordinarily powerful nature of the gravitational forces involved in this process, even the slightlest movement can lead to a drastic change.

Just picture the problem as a rubber band being slowly stretched until it breaks, not much may happen in a year or 2, but when the movement has been occurring for millions of years, you can expect things to start screwing up at some point, which's what's happening now, and it's not going to get any better, the balance is already broken.

[FATAL]

What is also interesting are the odds of something weird happening to Earth's orbital path just when human race has reached some tolerable level of science.

SILLINESS!

[rustyslacker]

What is also interesting are the odds of something weird happening to Earth's orbital path just when human race has reached some tolerable level of science.
But you forget! Everything on the internet is true!

Sorry Heidi, the support's not looking good.

[Heidi]

No problem.

[Props025]

I was just about to post, after using the spell check, when my browser in Vista restarted the window....and lost all typed text...


***what I was going to say*** (one more asterisk for the emphasis) *


I haven't posted for a long time, and this is where the topic is heading....?
"Earths orbital path"....lol, sorry for the bad non phonetic acyronym *

There are multiple theories that suggest the planet is safe from harm...and there are many that prove there is consiquence for our actions,
but just on what scale? That is the unforseen circumstance. I believe that every little effort makes a difference...just like voting during a US election. Maybe now...there's no drastic impact....but down the road...just like a "fad" everyone joins in.

[Aliotroph?]

And the clever YouTube video speaks only of the presence of the moon, which oddly enough, wouldn't be affected by Earth wandering off. It would happily tag along.

[ace]

Right. Nowhere in there did they say anything about the probability of change or extent of change in earth's climate from the moon's movement away from the earth (which is, as has been stated, an incredibly small amount over a very long period of time). All it says is that if the moon wasn't there, earth's climate would quickly become uninhabitable. But the moon IS there, so you have still provided zero evidence to support your case.

I also found it funny when she said they might not have been there to film that segment if the moon didn't exist. Well of COURSE you're not going to be around to explain how the presence of the moon affects Earth's climate if there is no moon in the first place! :p

[FATAL]

Also, a single differently going UV ray disrupting the DNA of some small being would change things quite dramatically too. Who knows if by some quirk of evolution, we would already be conquering galaxies if it weren't for that stupid moon over there.

[Props025]

I've got a question...

Think about the Moon for a sec


Think about matter and it's gravitational pull. Think about the earth...mostly denser matters...than make the core and it's shell. Now think of life on the planet....mainly water....

Wasn't it once said that our oceans waves are because of the moons gravitational influence...

I don't know which Youtube video...well, and Youtube video's...but my guess, is the moon will never leave the earth's orbit....it's almost similar to atoms...that the two keep each other in check with magnetic pull... the exception is a larger piece of matter, the sun. Until we can simulate gravitational pull, with out some computer program...or a scientific theory....will we ever know?

[Aliotroph?]

It will never leave unless something moves it. It does move further away and slows down the Earth's rotation as it does so though. Then it will reach a maximum and come back towards Earth, speeding it up. It does cause the tides. I've heard it will likely break into a ring (we're talking billions of years for all this), ending the tides and most likely its hold on our axis.

[FATAL]

Waves are mostly caused by wind, I'd figure. Even here, where there practically are no tides, there are waves. Also on small lakes you can see how, when it's calm, the lake's surface is like a mirror and when it's windy, there can be quite large waves in the water.

My guess is that the waves at sea are larger beacuse there is collaboration of unobstructed wind and tides.

Of course, none of this bases on anything than what I've observed my self. Feel free to disprove.

[Aliotroph?]

You forgot earthquakes. :p

[Props025]

Lol, and you forgot "FUCKD" Found Underwater Chasims and Kame* Depressions.


*Kame - steep irregular ridge

I think the moon's mass, along with the earths, drawn by the suns, has a major impact on our planet. I'm not sure...but does the axis of earth effect climate change? Does the moon actually have something to do with the oceans currents.....we all know heat=expansion and cold=compression, does cooler water have more influence from gravity, because it's denser?