When capitalism fails

[FATAL]

I quickly dug up a link to act as a reference. It's a bit old, so things have gone a bit worse since then.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0227-20.htm
also some interest:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Do you believe in absolutely free trade that the corporations are aiming towards now?
Do you think it is right, that while the workers are starting to get poorer and poorer, the people who already own millions of dollars earn even more?
Do you find taxes evil, even though they are specifically there to help those who can not take care of themselves, or those who have lost everything? Why?
Do you believe there can be equality without financial equality in the current system?

I answer no to all, but this thread would be pointless without opposition, so please oppose.

[Pieter Enis]

That first link has a nice paragraph in the beginning:

The old concept was that if there was a dollar's worth of labor in a pair of shoes made in the USA, and somebody wanted to import shoes from China where there may only be ten cents worth of labor in those shoes, we'd level the playing field for labor by putting a 90-cent import tariff on each pair of shoes. Companies could choose to make their products here or overseas, but the ultimate cost of labor would be the same.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0227-20.htm
I keep wondering why they don't do that now, they keep complaining about companies moving out, but having a product made somewhere else and importing it seems to be cheaper. I'd do the same if I were the companies' owner.
Though in the end you'd get people paying for the import of the goods.

And that "free trade" is useless, we're already exporting excess food to third world countries ruining the local farmers because our excesses are cheaper.

[jadeanderson]

Since when were taxes specifically earmarked for social programs? Most of the money the government steals from every person and business under its subjegation goes to the military.

[Pieter Enis]

In the US of A that is. In Belgium ... well ... our military can eat ice cones like the best!

[FATAL]

Since when were taxes specifically earmarked for social programs? Most of the money the government steals from every person and business under its subjegation goes to the military.
Yes, as Pieter said, that applies to USA mostly, and only because of the stupid leaders (fact) in charge.

However, the trend of lowering taxes is becoming universal, also with the fact that businesses are moving abroad to poor countries, where they can do whatever they want at practically no cost.

Both of these help only the rich. Even though tax reduction applies to everyone, the services the poor folks had earlier gotten for free, will now cost, making the person even more poor.

[Pieter Enis]

Yes, as Pieter said, that applies to USA mostly, and only because of the stupid leaders (fact) in charge.

However, the trend of lowering taxes is becoming universal, also with the fact that businesses are moving abroad to poor countries, where they can do whatever they want at practically no cost.

Both of these help only the rich. Even though tax reduction applies to everyone, the services the poor folks had earlier gotten for free, will now cost, making the person even more poor.
Again, except in Belgium. If they would ever 'liberate' that stuff, I'd set up a rebellion personally.
They did that with our electrical supplier. They liberated it and some other company is now fighting it's way through since the first company already has allmost everyone on their list. But, surprisingly, the other company is pulling through.
The same is being discussed for public transportation, but I hope it's not going to happen. Ticket prices nearly doubled over the past year and I fear they'll skyrocket if they'd separate it from the government.

We get practically full refunds on medical expenses, insurance, schooling (though a lot of costs are hidden, like books, field trips and the like. Damn Capitalists!) and some other stuff which I can't think of.
Our Uni also has special restaurants that cost two thirds less if you scan in with your student card which you get for free after having subscribed to Uni courses.

And, as I have said before, our taxes increase per income. Usually we have to pay about 21% of what we earn (and some pension stuff and something else I forgot the name of), but the biggest earners have to pay up to 56% of what they earn :p
I sure hope they calculated it out so that you don't earn less by getting a raise, but I don't think they're as stupid.

[Aliotroph?]

Well, I dunno what America does with their tax money. Legend has it they spend twice as much per capita on health care as Canada but nobody in the US gets any. Meanwhile in Canada we have long waits for simple things because we need to spend more and we have the Americans and Russians poking at us because we don't have enough military.

Canada is odd in that we're relatively well off but we're cheap. Everything here is cheaper than in a lot of European countries, partially because Canadians won't pay for anything.

[JohnnyRancid]

I think the concept of money alone is pretty messed up. Are countries alone making more and more money just for improving the quality of their state in terms of land ownership, and resources? Or are we constantly passing the same amount of money all around so that it's just a matter of who is hogging the money poor people want? Is money some nonexistant idea that magically gave certain objects value?

[Pieter Enis]

I think the concept of money alone is pretty messed up. Are countries alone making more and more money just for improving the quality of their state in terms of land ownership, and resources? Or are we constantly passing the same amount of money all around so that it's just a matter of who is hogging the money poor people want? Is money some nonexistant idea that magically gave certain objects value?
I saw that in Economics this year, but failed the course. I didn't get how banks could actually 'create' money.
They did it like this ... I think.
µ stands for money units as I don't think any monetary value is represented by the micro sign.
A lends B 1000µ
B lends C 900µ from the 1000µ A lent B
Then he said that there was now 1900µ to be spent, thus creating money!
But that didn't make sense as A had 1000µ less and B also had 900µ less, thus no money was 'created'

I didn't really follow the dude, so I could be totally wrong on how it worked as well. Either way, he's right and I'm wrong, so money is being 'created'
I'd like to know how they know how much bills to print out and such, however.
One thing I do understand is that by interest and savings, you can digitally create money. Just hog any amount of money long enough and you'll have earned a percentage of it. Multiply by the number of people, multiply by any given amount of years, multiply by the income people average on et vwala, each time unit that much money is being created.

[Kristian]

One thing I do understand is that by interest and savings, you can digitally create money. Just hog any amount of money long enough and you'll have earned a percentage of it. Multiply by the number of people, multiply by any given amount of years, multiply by the income people average on et vwala, each time unit that much money is being created.

Yes, but when more money is created, the value of it decreases. If we were all billionares, a candy bar would cost $100.000. ;-) Gotta love inflation.

[Pieter Enis]

Yes, but when more money is created, the value of it decreases. If we were all billionares, a candy bar would cost $100.000. ;-) Gotta love inflation.
Dem poor africans 'll never be truly rich! *diablo*