Map30! Any suggestions?

[Logan MTM]

Ok guys! I think the Map30 is "the most important" Map for obvious reasons!
What i'm doing looks more or less like this...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8048/uuuuuuuuuukv4.th.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uuuuuuuuuukv4.jpg)

Now, i need to know what everyone working on this project suggest to this map.
Just shooting the brain or something big like those Maps from TNT and PLUTONIA?
When i said "The most important Map", i'd means... The end of 29 AWESOME Maps before this! *wacky*

Ok! Ok! Ok! ... my english sucks! I know!

[Danimetal]

Looking incredibly sweet Logan!. Now, call me freak but I had this strange dream (damn... A Doom dream... damn) where map30 was something along the lines of "Survive for a long time and kill a lot of monsters until the clues for killing the big monster are revealed, then you solve the puzzle and kill the boss".

I go for a "Non typical" Map30.

[Dutch Devil]

Maybe start in an dark evil cathehedral and maybe do creative stuff with scrolling floors to teleport dead bodies in they fall down from small holes in the walls.

Dunno if it sounds cool I just thought this up in an sec, what I do think it should need alot of gore blood/corpses pentagrams just an very evil place, maybe let the map start as an normal map walk around in some evil place just kill monsters like normal until you get to the boss his hideout and its going to start spawning new baddies throughout the whole map.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I say ridiculous amounts of detail not seen since the likes of Gothic99.

[Danimetal]

Who made the guy above leader for the project?. Detail you say?... Details are for wussies :P!!!.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Who made the guy above leader for the project?. Detail you say?... Details are for wussies :P!!!.
would you like to be leader?

[Danimetal]

Nah, I am already the one and only supreme leader of some other stuff. Come on PS, I was just kidding, don´t get offended :).

[Dutch Devil]

Youre doing an very good job as an leader PS I'm pretty sure I couldn't do an better job myself, life as an mapper is easy doing all the planning is alot more work.

So big fat kudos to you :)

[PumpkinSmasher]

Come on PS, I was just kidding, don´t get offended :).
I know, I wasn't being serious either.

BTW: I'll be on IRC tonight, though I'm on there most nights now. But I encourage others to join. It gets quiet in there sometimes, and I don't like it.

[Logan MTM]

Thank you Dani!
Thank you Dutch!

... working...

[MR_ROCKET]

*guilty* Make it gloomy, bloody, morbid, and red.. *diablo*

[jetflock]

more toilets.
edit: on a serious note, what to do with the romero head?....nothing, or make it something neat, or throw john carmack on it?
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/20207260618.gif (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3070900)

[Danimetal]

I played a map pack by Psyren that replaced it with a Chthulu... That rocked but it behaved like a John Romero head after all... I´m thinking. we could put some iconic stuff to act as the final boss that is protected by Boom powered traps and puzzles the player has to avoid... Again, I´d stay away from the classic approach. For example, the map30 of the original NDCP was a bit of a dissapointment for me in terms of originality.

[Osiris's_Legacy]

Basically, I like DaniMetals idea, make the final boss brain thingy have a good high amount of health, and have the boss surrounded by traps and walls that continously move up and down, making the player have to move to another angles to get a good shot at it.

[MR_ROCKET]

I actually have a possible replacement texture for the icon of sin. But probably wouldn't be a good idea to post it here.
Pm me If you would like to take a look.
Also a few other hellish x4 128x512's.

[FATAL]

Here's the suggestion I posted some time ago. I haven't seen it used in any map before, so it could be pretty neat:


There is a boss spawner (or many of them) somewhere where the player can't see it nor ever touch it, but there is some regular type exit thing, a switch or such. The player would then have to fight under constant pressure against dudes spawning randomly in the whole level. While this relies very much on luck as the monsters spawning are always random, I think that if made difficult enough, it could work pretty well. It would require luck and skill. The longer the player has to stick around, the less dominant luck will be, as the player will meet more monsters. It could even be a rather small map, but with shitloads of switches to press all around the map to make the player work for it.

[MR_ROCKET]

Sounds cool also, I like the part about the switches where by hitting random switch's it could constantly collaps tons of walls opening the map up more and more until the exit switch is finally revealed? or possibly stage 2. But not a switch at a time, I'm thinking more like 5 or so at a time. and maybe around 50-60 switch's.

Here's something else about the icon of sin that could be like a stage 2, have 2 icons of sin's, with texture replacements of a giant eyeball for each. I'm thinking very large textures for this would be neat/scary looking. So both eye's would have to be shot out. The thing is it would only take 1 eye to be shot out, so maybe it could be timed with shootable door switch's and then finally hit a chain of barrels at the end to kill it. /shrug

[PumpkinSmasher]

Could we make an animated Icon of Sin texture?

[MR_ROCKET]

You know, I'v only made small animations but I'm sure it's doable.
The thing I'd be wondering is though, you know how a the larger an animation the slower it is, well I'm not sure how well it would do in Doom.
I'v just never had to make an animation that size, and I'd want things to be stable.

I'll let you know if I come up with anything.
Rofl, it would be neat to have some big evil eyeballs blinking at you :D

[jetflock]

hmmm....interesting ideas....maybe you could place that new gunner monster behind a door, behind the romero heads, than when the player shoots the texture, a gun trigger opens the door for a sec, the gunners fire at each romero, and then the door closes.
something like this could damage both eyes, would just have to make the romero health high....
and come to think of it, i have a giant eye texture.....
edit: hmm.....though, zdoom would handle this a little easier, as gun switches can be triggered by any gun, not like in prboom, where it is like original doom, and only bullet guns can effect it-considering though, i suppose you could only use the missile in doom2, so thats not much of a problem.

[rustyslacker]

edit: on a serious note, what to do with the romero head?....nothing, or make it something neat, or throw john carmack on it?
No way, put Pumpkinsmasher's face on it.

..oh yeah, I'm not a part of this project anymore..*wacky*

[PumpkinSmasher]

hehe...
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2072/untitledbv8.png

[Danimetal]

The ideas are great. The pumpkin is even greater!!.

[PumpkinSmasher]

hehe
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8422/untitled2wr4.png

[MR_ROCKET]

I'm wondering who all likes the ideas, a combo of everything said so far in stages maybe?
And yeah I forgot about the limited gun triggers, maybe the eyes could work like the drop down wall switches but instead of walls for this stage they could be huge lifts that reveal the open eyes textures behind the lifts, when they are up the eye lids are shut?
There could also be a bridge like platform, a bunch of floors that raise and let you get closer to it a little at a time, once close enough all lifts that have to do with the eyes go down and stay making the eyes variable?

[jetflock]

You know, I'v only made small animations but I'm sure it's doable.
The thing I'd be wondering is though, you know how a the larger an animation the slower it is, well I'm not sure how well it would do in Doom.
I'v just never had to make an animation that size, and I'd want things to be stable.

I'll let you know if I come up with anything.
Rofl, it would be neat to have some big evil eyeballs blinking at you :D
you know Rocket, look at the "animated intro" of atmosphere, i have a 139 frame 128/256 animated texture and it runs fine (though only legacy can handle that many frames i think-we would only need a couple for ndcp)
edit-i love the puking pumpkin.
I'm wondering who all likes the ideas, a combo of everything said so far in stages maybe?
And yeah I forgot about the limited gun triggers, maybe the eyes could work like the drop down wall switches but instead of walls for this stage they could be huge lifts that reveal the open eyes textures behind the lifts, when they are up the eye lids are shut?
There could also be a bridge like platform, a bunch of floors that raise and let you get closer to it a little at a time, once close enough all lifts that have to do with the eyes go down and stay making the eyes variable?
yes, i was thinking of this. a good way visually with the walls would be to make a "buffer" texture on the middle linedef, like the ones i usually put in front of doors to make them look rounder-fit more snuggly around the eyesballs and/or eyeball linedef texture itself.that would create a decent enough 3d-effect taking away from the "wall eyelid" limitations.

[MR_ROCKET]

I'd imagine by now Logan is like wtf do you guys want me to make?!?! heh

Well hold tight Logan, we'r brain storming here :D

[Logan MTM]

Oops! Sorry guys, i'm back!
I've been joying the brazilian "Carnaval" party! *drinky* *hippie* *cheers* *bday* *party*

And you're right Rocket! ;)
Well, about that Camark's face i think a good idea. I like it!
One more thing. It's the first time i make a Map30 then, i have no idea why the Demon's Face texture doesn't explod whe he die...(!)

[Danimetal]

An enormous demon face... Check.
An enormous demon mouth... Check.
Going inside the demon´s body to blow up both of its eyes... Check.
Blowing the brain that opens up after that... Check.
Copying DMC ideas... Check.

[Logan MTM]

Are you playing Chess Dani? :D
Nevermind... I find out what is!
I'd the Demon's Face in the wrong side of the Map!*knownot*

[Danimetal]

Checkmate, ROFL ;).

[MR_ROCKET]

RUN DMC? heh

I'v included some more/different hell textures with RES6 to PS. But I didn't add them into the resource.
I can send them to you if you want Logan?
I made this sorta prefab map a few days ago with the eye's texture opening and closing lol.
It's funny as is without the mood, you walk by then some huge eyes open up at you. :D

I know everyone wants the level to be unique, thats why I suggested to try and combined everyones ideas.
How bout we just turn the Mastermind sprite into Satan? lol
Logan light some candles :D

[Danimetal]

Devil May Cry: a PS2 action game series. I´ve been lately playing the third part.

[Logan MTM]

I can send them to you if you want Logan?
Sure! Please, send me now.:D

[MR_ROCKET]

http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/temp2/few_more_hell_textures.rar
Jetflock, you can update these textures if you want and send them back to Logan. ;) There's not much there, but something more to work with..
Remember to use those red colormap's with line type 242 also!, well if you want ..;)
I was thinking hell could be completely red using REDMAP from beginning to end of it.. worth a test.

I'v got an idea about something else having to do with map30, we could treat it like the conglom map but with a teleport to go from section to section and instead Logan's map would be the last section to teleport to because it has an ending exit.
But only Logan is allowed to use the big fancy textures. :D

Whattya think?

[Danimetal]

A nice change of pace for a Map30, obviously... If we´re going to do that I could ask Jetflock for some bowels texture and do the great beast womb.

[MR_ROCKET]

Oh god anything but bowels..lol
On second thought, oh god everything even bowels !

[Logan MTM]

But only Logan is allowed to use the big fancy textures. :D
LUCKY!!! *cool*

I have a lot of new textures! I hope everybody like of the idea!

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2268/doom0018lx8.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom0018lx8.jpg) || http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8430/doom0019ss3.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom0019ss3.jpg)

*turvy*

[Dutch Devil]

Hehehehe cool nice idea with the names on the wall may suggest that these textures may only be used on map30 kinda like ending credits to show all names who worked on the project.

yeah really nice :)

[PumpkinSmasher]

I don't see my name, but I guess I didn't really make a map for the project either.

[Dutch Devil]

You should get your name in the biggest font on the walls :p an project is worth nothing without an good captain.

[FATAL]

Hahaa, that's a good idea Logan, nice.

[jetflock]

the jetflock one MUST be on the next wall....

[Logan MTM]

Relax guys. I did all the names! :D
> Check out! (http://www.brdoom.com/mtm/NDCP2/Texturas para a porra do Mapa 30 LOL.zip) <

[MR_ROCKET]

Hehe nice. :D

[Dutch Devil]

Hehehe brilliant looks cool I say use all of them on map30 :p

[Logan MTM]

LOL
Sure, already is done. :D

[Danimetal]

Absolutely great!!. Hehe, there are many people that actually call me "Dani Metal" instead of "Dani" or "Danimetal" ;).

[PumpkinSmasher]

And there are many people that actually call me Pump Kin Smasher...lol

[Logan MTM]

It's guilt of the wall! LOL

[FATAL]

And probably even more people who call me Fat Al.

[Danimetal]

That last one could, indeed, be true.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Het, Fat Al. Hows the map coming?

[FATAL]

Coming! I've began roughing out buildings like hell. I'll try a new mapping method in which I will just create simple objects like hell and then making something out of them later. It helps to concept ideas on the map.

[Danimetal]

It worked for me in the first NDCP... Shall we make a poll for you?.

[FATAL]

I can make a poll like I did with the last NDCP.

[MR_ROCKET]

..Anyways about map30, who likes the idea about it being a sort of conglomeration map also?

I'v got an idea about something else having to do with map30, we could treat it like the conglom map but with a teleport to go from section to section and instead, Logan's map would be the last section to teleport to because it has an ending exit.
That way the other ideas could be put in by the individual idea makers.

So it would be something like this:
First section starts out with the puzzle of switch's etc, teleport out,
next section crazy crushers and lifts etc, teleport out,
next section Logan's start room..

But with a few more sections.. Anyways, just some ideas..

However !1 I think this is a really good idea and me being the soul creator of the idea..Then I'd have to make some sort of of rulez an such for it..
so here goes:

First I am not allowed to make a section for it..however I do get to pick who I want to add sections to it.
They can sign up, but are only lucky enough to get picked :D
Must teleport from section to section, no connecting sections.
Only 3-4 authors will be picked. But only if they want to participate.

Now that said, all rules stolen from DD's ndcp1 conglom by PS for ndcp2's has been re-used for this. other than whats been said above.


However I will need PS's ok of athoratuh before all the above will take effect.

All yee who can dig it, say I.. can dig it :D

[Danimetal]

Agreed. Pick me... You know, you want it.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I'd say check with Logan, as he is the current owner of map30

[MR_ROCKET]

Well of course, Logan would have to be ok with it.
But his map isn't to be touched, only teleported to last. teleported to his start area.. ;)
And Logans map30 will have to be finished first before the idea could take place also..
That way we'l be able to say, ok you can have these 100 tags, you can have these 101-200 tags etc.

[Logan MTM]

I agree whatever you want guys!
Lets Mapp! :)

[PumpkinSmasher]

Then I guess this is a go. Good luck for the guys who participate.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah we'l have to make a thread for the conglom idea when the time comes.
Logan's map30 will have to be final before the conglom idea can take effect me thinks..
And right now I'm getting ready to go out of town for a few weeks so I might not be here to say much.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Ok guys! I think the Map30 is "the most important" Map for obvious reasons!

I'm going to disagree with this statement

[FATAL]

I don't. After the wad is finished, the last map will define the taste in the player's mouth. Of course, if the rest of the wad is garbage, surely one level won't save it. However, if the wad is overall good, but has a bad final level, it's overall less enjoyable.

Heh, luckily I've got a slot around the middle. ;)

[PumpkinSmasher]

I would say the first level is the most important, as It will be the first impression the player gets of the wad.

[Dutch Devil]

Then I hope I did an good job on it I'm quite pleased with it, dunno about the other people I didn't got much feedback on WIP.

[Logan MTM]

I don't. After the wad is finished, the last map will define the taste in the player's mouth. Of course, if the rest of the wad is garbage, surely one level won't save it. However, if the wad is overall good, but has a bad final level, it's overall less enjoyable.
Right!
Then I hope I did an good job on...
Did you hope? Be sure about this!

[jetflock]

oh shit, i missed those "bowels" posts directed at me! shit! well, if you need graphics let me know!