Legacy 2.0 Feature Requests

[Planky]

Dev's: Send me a PM if any of these need to be updated - including ones saying no to features
Disclaimer: This list was generated the legacy community, Legacy devs reserve the rights to remove/decline any request

Editing

1. A way to add light effects and or transparency to any wall we want. Done
2. A “floor align” feature that would align all the textures in a room.
3. Ability to script separate light sources individually so you can change any instance of a light without affecting the others.
4. Ability to set different styles: spherical / cone lights. The possibility of FraggleScripting or ACSing them so you can change their position, angle etc.
5. A FraggleScript command to return the floor texture you're on. Done
6. The ability to create your own monsters without replacing the originals. Done
7. The ability to create friendly monsters. Done
8. Edit Legacy menus with a LUMP file or DeHackEd. Done
9. A better way to create 3D floors without needing the nearby sector.No, unless someone suggests a better method.
10. Light source THING object as well as lighted sectors.
11. Thing triggers, like if “thing touches another thing” etc. Done
12. Text aligning and position when using the FS tip commands. Text always interferes with the cross-hair :P.
13. Mod files or lumps like those in HL that define special keys etc. For example, if you want to bind a determined script to a certain key you can define it from the 'Controls' section in Legacy (the control section would "read" the name of the function, the script to be called and allow the player to select a key for it).
14. New linedefs types that deal with "FS or ACS activate when ceiling or floor of tagged sector are shot".
15. An integrated sprite editor. No
16. Ability to specify a sound of the main Iwad or custom wad to be played when a floor or ceiling moves with the movefloor() and moveceiling() functions. This would add a lot of flexibility allowing the user to get different sounds instead of the default Doom original. Done
17. The ability to specify the Z-Height of an object in an editor to make 3D wads easier. Done
18. Ability to add a CORONA object that is actually a CORONA in fragglescript, or maybe even the editor?
19. Allow for more abstract defining of things, monsters, weapons, etc. Having basically every action of them defined through uneditable code-pointers is limiting. Done
20. Improve FraggleScript. Make it less unstable and random. Make Functions/arguments possible. ACS would be better for this
21. Update the FS docs with any additions/ ommisions and incorrect script models. WIP
22. Allow the map to decide what items that a player should have when respawning, without having to use FS. No - scripting would be a better solution, plus it has editor support
23. The ability to jump or not should be included on the map, along with gravity,walk and run speed, even the max jump height. Done
24. lineattack() could have a distance parameter to prevent it from hitting at that distance. It'd also be useful to have it return a mobj parameter (what object it hits if it did). Done
25. Have it possible to check if the mobj (player or monster) killed another mobj.
26. If you have a line, and you bind it to another sector, the line "should" be able to block all weapons if the sector height or floor is at a certain level.
27. Fix it so that Legacy stops bullet/ hitscan weapons. Done - someone is going to have to explain this to me (Smite:I assume it means that hitscan weapons should have finite range (they do) and hitscans should be stopped by inpassable linedefs (they are))
28. A linedef with deep water in which the player doesn't slowly sink? For creating ladders and such.
29. Make it so that once you've created a bot via fragglescript you can later rename that same bot.
30. Global FraggleScript lump, or a way of making hub scripts. That way, the StartWeaponFS and StartFS codepointers don't require code to be duplicated ad nauseam. And for stuff like sidescroller scripts that need to persist among levels? You can add a text lump into the wad and use include("FSLUMP") via FraggleScript
31. Separate co-op/ deathmatch tags. Done
32. Slow-motion effects added to FraggleScript. It'd be cool for movies. e.g. to be to use "0.5" playdemo speeds for half speed playback etc
33. A linedef type for a 2 sided line that instead of drawing a decal on the texture it draws a clear hole on it in the shape of the decal so you can have a damage texture on a second wall showing through.
34. A way to cycle a line type per control sector, so you could have a solid 3d floor change to a total transparent passable 3dfloor at the drop of a hat. If something like this was repeated a few times and having a few more target sectors where they would become visible after the last has disappeared then it could become among other things, an animated sector based exploding wall. You could pull this off with multiple 3d floors by changing their floor/ceiling height - I created a wad with a moving ceiling fan using this method
35. Have a friendly thing flag. For example: you spawn an Imp and then use objflag (myimp, MF_FREINDLY, 1) or something like that so the Imp doesn't attack you, it attacks bad guys instead. Done
36. Make a function that will make the target object wander around aimlessly.
37. A function that sets the fog for the level.
38. The ability to move the chase-cam around like a regular object.


Graphics

1. 3D Slopes.
2. Have optional bullet tracers and ricochet sound effects.
3. Proper trails on rockets.
4. Plasma shots that spawn small sparkling bits of plasma that bounce on the floor.
5. A way to stretch a texture or flat across a sloped surface.
6. Warped flat support.
7. Support for the 3D, voxel-based recreations of the original sprites. No, near impossible for OpenGL and slightly less harder for software renderer
8. Light sources, like in Doom 3, so a map can be made with all light level in 0, and you can put some lights in there- a light source, like the ones on candelabra and lamps, but with magnitude and without the sprite.
9. Texture lights.
10. Coronas with the lights. Ability to make lights with or without them.
11. 3D polyobjects. Done
12. Hi-res sprites along with textures. Done
13. ZDoomGL type shaders.
14. sky-boxes. Done
15. Different colours and fonts for the text. Done
16. Lighting effects on the radioactive slime and lava.
17. The classic boom HUD.
18. Optional uncapped frame-rate.
19. Ability to add fog/ colormaps to a sector in OpenGl mode. Done
20. A Direct3d mode. No
21. An automatic system to make sprites (specially for corpses) disappear in a cool way when there are so many on the screen.
22. VWEP support.
23. Separate colors for the torso and legs of the Doomguy.
24. Do something with the current spectre effect as some players find that it makes them too invisible. Done
25. Fake 3d floors: rendered but not blocking anything. Sort of water effect but without water. Done
26. Separate translucency controls for the status bar, invisible enemies, and fireballs. Done
27. On scrolling textures, have the option so that when you make a bullet hole, the hole scrolls with the texture. It seems kinda weird how you can make a bullet hole stay put on a moving wall. I consider this a bug
28. Make all the decals/ splats work properly. As it is, sometimes they appear in the air, they tend to cause serious slowdowns (takes a bit of clever trickery to avoid that in any game), and they don't work on flats. They're also immune to fog, which looks pretty strange.
29. Make it so that things like decals will have a chance to use external scripts and animate or fade out in hi-res modes. something like what quake3 does. It would be neat to have a nice fade time on the decals.
30. Better blood/ bullet impact effects, a la Skull Tag.
31. Have graphics that are by default 1024x768 graphics and then scaled down, rather than 320x240 and scaled up. Done
32. True type fonts instead of individual graphic images.
33. 2 brighter color palettes for doom. Also, the option to choose brighter color palettes(in game) when playing mods designed for GL lighting in software. No - you can create an add-in with modified palettes
34. Make the GL brightness to be closer to the software brightness.
35. Make the blood match the monster in terms of colour/ transparency- e.g. Cacodemons' blood should be blue, translucent demons blood should be translucent.
36. Have the mugshot/ ammo/ items on the max screen size, near your health.
37. Make an option to have the mugshot and the text on the translucent status bar not translucent, so you can see them better.
38. Have multiple types/ shapes of blood splat.
39. Have the option for different HUD layouts e.g. ZDoom style.


Gameplay

1. A 'n00b' mode that can be used to make most of the advanced options (Gravity, etc) invisible, to prevent cluttering in the menus.
2. Stealth monsters. Use Decorate
3. Crouching (optional).
4. Camera bob up and down when shooting (optional).
5. Rocket-Arena multi-player option to disable splash damage from rockets to allow proper rocket jumping.
6. The option to stop the player carrying their weapons/ armour etc. into the next level.Use Scripting
7. 3D floors should block the line vision of monsters. Done
8. Have the option to make the demons counter-strike the arch-vile. Done
9. Have falling damage an option in the menus.
10. Slow-motion gibs for Max Payne style bullet time. Done
11. Better AI. No
12. Solid/ gib-able corpses (both optional). Done, supported in Legacy 1.43
13. If you press "next weapon" 3 times it should cycle forward 3 weapons instead of one. Would make changing weapons quicker.
14. Have a timer on the screen in single player, with the level par and your personal best time near it.


Console/ Menu/ GUI

1. Spawn monsters command in the console.
2. A GUI for loading and checking wads inside Legacy.
3. Transparent legacy GUI's for Vista.
4. Make it so that while you're playing Legacy in windowed mode, you can press the console key to put focus on the desktop.
5. Make it so that when you press the windows key in Legacy, you don't have to move the mouse really fast to get to the desktop.
6. Make the Legacy window re-sizable. Change the resolution in the menu's to do this
7. Make it so that when you press the windows button to switch between the desktop and the game, it stops sometimes making the desktop huge and freezing the game. Done
8. Pause the single player game when you bring down the console
9. Be able to choose the WAD that has your custom maps in from the main menu, as easily as if you were choosing another episode on the Playstation version of Doom.


Sound/ Music

1. External midi files. This way, all you have to do is put a midi file in your legacy directory, and name it after one of the files in the wad you're using. Done
2. Have a key for cycling through the midi files in a wad.
3. Optional footstep sound effects, that sound louder when you are running.
4. Full 3D-sound support.


Multi-Player

1. Have a system for telling the player what wad a server is using. Done
2. Implanted CTF in multi-player options.
3. Let telefragging when the player dies and respawns, to prevent them sometimes getting stuck, and having to punch each other to death. Fixed
4. Less lag in net games. Fixed
5. A score board in coop and deathmatch. Done
6. More multi-player modes e.g. "imp hunt" like Half-Life's Scientist Hunt, something like Unreal Tournament's Domination, or quake 2's "tag".
7. A dedicated server. Done
8. A favourites list for servers in the server browser.
9. Stop Legacy disconnecting from network games when you tab to a different window. Fixed
10. Have a different layout, maybe larger area for the in game server list, or rather a smaller font size to display them, more information about the hosted game, player list, etc.
11. An option to disable auto downloads for net games. Done
12. More compatible for Hexen/ Heretic in terms of the two-player split screen.


Auto-map

1. Have customizable options for the auto-map, like selecting colours, rotating or not, showing or not the texture on the floors, special coloured linedefs for switches, teleporters and platforms.
2. Have the option to mark the auto-map with messages instead of numbers- e.g. "loads of health". It would also be useful for mappers if you could fragglescript it so they could label zones to "Level 1", "Level 2", "Medical Bay" etc. in the auto-map.
3. Display the following on the auto-map: amount of monsters killed, items and secrets completed (in x/y format or in %).
4. Fix the map titles for Final Doom- maybe by having a separate text file including them. At present, they're displayed wrongly in the in game menus and in the map. Maybe that text file could also include notes on each level like the author etc. You could have like a database of text files that could come with Legacy, that include information for every PWAD ever released, so it was always correct for all the different wads out there. Of course, I'd be willing to make those text files up if you wanted. Fixed


Miscellaneous

1. Have the option to right-click on wads and run them with Legacy from your OS. No, you can associate WAD files with Legacy in Windows
2. Drag and drop wad files onto Legacy to run them from your OS.
3. Sideways opening doors. Done - also known as PolyObjs
4. Better joystick configuration i.e. more axes and configuring for the axes. Done
5. Better management of devices e.g. joysticks, keyboards, even MIDI synthesizers etc. integrated into Legacy. Done
6. Support of Xfire.
7. HDR. No
8. Make the Legacy support jDRP.
9. Support for Chex Quest. Done
10. Make it so that you can put the Playstation Doom CD in and play Legacy with the textures/ sounds/ maps from that. I know they're not quite as detailed but it would be cool because there's some stuff in there that PC versions don't have. Done
11. Continuous Demo recording (no 128kb limit)
12. Continuing the recording an existing demo

[Ajapted]

15. An integrated sprite editor.
LOL, why not an integrated map editor too? :)

7. Support for the 3D, voxel-based recreations of the original sprites.
Another LOL, voxels are dead, let them RIP.

A serious one this time:
9. A better way to create 3D floors without needing the nearby sector.
I have an idea how to do this. It might take a little while to explain. Basically there are two new linetypes, CopySectorIntoUpper and CopySectorIntoLower, which copy the sector on the front side of the linedef into the solid upper/lower area on the back side of the linedef.

I've made some images to show how to apply this idea to make a 3D bridge over water. Let's say you begin with this map (top-down view) :
http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/3dfloor_a.png

and you want to add the bridge between the two pieces of land, like this:
http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/3dfloor_b.png

You make the bridge sector have the height range 0-96, floor flat is water and ceiling is underneath of bridge. Then use the CopySectorIntoUpper as the special linetype (the red one). The following image shows the side-on view:
http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/3dfloor_c.png

This system is quite limited compared to dummy sectors, but would handle many cases where people wanted to use 3D floors, and I think a simpler method like this would see more people using 3D floors in their maps.

[Aliotroph?]

Seems like it would be more conceptually easy to extend editors like Doom Builder to understand 3D floors. Just have an "insert 3D block" dialog. It would have options that pretty closely resemble a sector dialog. It could also maintain a list of sectors to apply to and these blocks would e somewhat editable in 3D mode.

Now I'm not telling anyone to go build it because it would be a pile of work, but it would be most likely to get newbies doing 3D floors.

[Planky]

I will go through this, yet again, to pull out the 'feature' requests that are actually bugs in the current Legacy.

Also, don't get upset if I say no to a feature - this list will be ever changing.

[g6672D]

New controls you say? Global FS for sidescroller you say? I think I love DL. I think ZDoom better watch out! :) :)

[xbolt]

I know this probably wont happen until after 2.0, but... Strife support?

-Off-topic-
Aw, man. I thought I was the first one to make a rotating fan. :(

Oh well, I still have the readable book and sniper rifle.

[Planky]

Dunno about a readable book - but the sniper rifle isn't new.

I created the ceiling fan as I saw someone do it in GZDoom using ACS - I rewrote the acs into FS and off it went.

[xbolt]

Huh, when I first made them (the sniper rifle and fan), I thought I had come up with something new. Oh well.

But I'm pretty sure a readable book hasn't been done before.
If you're interested, I put up a quick wad demonstrating it here (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=14519).

And another request I thought of, make it so you can change the pitch of the camera with the movecamera() function.

[Aliotroph?]

I did a ceiling fan with some 3D floors and FS too. Probably pretty close to Fatal's. Was messy and took a while to make. The way I moved the 3D floors out of the way limited how I could build the supporting structure for the fan. That sucked.

[chippo]

I will go through this, yet again, to pull out the 'feature' requests that are actually bugs in the current Legacy.

Aah, but could you put those bugs somewhere safe? I personally am more interested in fixing bugs in the current legacy than implementing new features (for now, while I still know nothing about graphics).

When grepping through the forums for some work to do, I can find plenty of bug reports but the many of these are unsatisfactory. They usually do not specify unambiguosly which exact version they are against, and often it's even unclear whether they are talking about legacy-1 or legacy-2.

[Planky]

I quite agree, fixing bugs rather than adding features should be the priority - but seeing as this is a rewrite, most of the old bugs are gone.

Im looking to redesign our current forums - mainly to have it look something similar to the gzdoom forums. Either that, or create a bug submitter in the new legacy and force the user to report all the necessary information.

[Zakyrus_theOmega]

Hello. I have one feature request and it's simple:
Would it be possible to have a "split" aim and view? Meaning that if a setting is set, the crosshair input could be toggled to one input and the player's view set to another? I have a virtual reality headset(Z800) and a tracked gun controller. I know that not many people have support for VR, but others could use joysticks, ect. I think it would be awesome for you to add this as it wouldn't be that hard at all to do. The aim and view input settings could be mouse1, mouse2 or joystick. I know that there is splitscreen mode (for two-players on one machine) so 2 inputs for one player's view and aim wouldn't be that hard to do. PLEASE CONSIDER ADDING THIS.

[Planky]

You know, I was joking about HDR support being added with Macro11_1 in #legacy just yesterday, and commented it was just as likely to get VR support as it was HDR...

O_o

[Zakyrus_theOmega]

Next question:
If I say, mod my own copy of the Doom Legacy source and ONLY added the aim/view feature... would this interfere with me playing against others online?

[jester]

Class. I'm glad you guys have put my list to good use! This is really good, the way you've put it up here. Now, people can look through that list and easily see whether a feature has already been suggested, even if it's one that the Legacy team aren't going to put in Legacy (when I was compiling that list I noticed that tons of ideas got posted several times).

By the way, is request 10 in miscellaneous really implemented? Can you actually use the PSX maps with Legacy (e.g. The Mansion), playing them off the PSX Doom CD? Or is it just like, you can download them as wads elsewhere or something? I know you can download the music/ sfx as a wad, not sure about all the maps. I guess this would be a lot of work to implement to play them off the PSX Doom CD, I just got the idea from playing PSX Doom through an emulator on my PC. That made me think that getting the maps etc. off it probably wouldn't be that hard, but in hindsight that probably doesn't make sense.

Anyway, cheers.

[smite-meister]

I have no idea what the PSX Doom actually is, but assuming that the data formats it uses are the same as in vanilla Doom, you can probably use the non-ordered data directly from the CD. As for ordered data such as maps, at the very least you can repackage them in a WAD :)

[jester]

By PSX Doom I just meant the Playstation version of Doom. It's funny, if you put the CD in your PC it actually comes up with some wads and stuff on it but I don't think they're proper Doom wads. I was kind of wondering if there was some way to get an emulator like PSXE to get all the data off it and convert it to something Legacy could use, basically because I played Playstation Doom via a PC emulator and it seemed to work really well.

Of course it probably wouldn't be worth the effort but it would be cool. Playstation Doom is pretty popular. The music, especially, rocks.

[Danimetal]

20. Improve FraggleScript. Make it less unstable and random. Make Functions/arguments possible
Fully support this. While ACS has functions that do a lot of things that FS does not the same exactly thing happens in reverse: FS has functions that can´t be duplicated with basic ACS. Extending ACS would be an option :).

[Devan]

From other thread: If legacy is too far different from old doom to play demos, I want to ask another thing. How does legacy use old doom WAD files? Legacy is far different from old doom :) Why cannot legacy play old doom demos using something from old doom which has changed? As I said in other thread, looks like legacy uses other AI than old doom. So, why can't legacy, for example, use "alternative AI" from old doom to play old doom demos? And something other that has changed...

[Danimetal]

Doom´s behavior regarding things is not into the Wad file but into the executable itself so every change to the AI (supposing that´s the only thing that goes out of sync :P) should be done in the .exe.

Legacy´s code is not exactly the same as Doom (as far as I´ve been able to read, I don´t think I´m that fluent at c++ :P) and Legacy v2.0 seems to be a complete rewrite of the code so even more "incompatibilities" could arise later.

While Devan´s idea seems interesting I wouldn´t bet for that, mainly because Demo players and recorders use ports that work more like the original Doom and try to emulate it as exactly as possible. I don´t think Legacy it´s among its favourites so maybe the team is trying to focus in other features :).

[Devan]

Legacy´s code is not exactly the same as Doom
So, could legacy use old doom code when playing old doom demos? :)))))

[Danimetal]

That´s not something I can tell Devan. Why you are so interested in that particular feature ;)?.

[Graf_Zahl]

So, could legacy use old doom code when playing old doom demos? :)))))


That would require copying the entire original code into the EXE in addition to the current one resulting in almost complete code duplication. Why would any developer do that, especially since there are source ports that are much better suited for demo playback. Why not use one of those and leave the more advanced engines for actually playing the game?

[Danimetal]

That´s what I could quote, specially the using some engines to do something and other to do others. Seems quite reasonable.

[Aliotroph?]

What bugs me about Legacy is for a long time it's been pretty much unable to play its own demos. For example, when you make a co-op demo it works great but special co-op monsters don't appear and the demo desyncs pretty fast.

[MR_ROCKET]

But this is a legacy 2 thread.
It would be cool for a change to actually see one of the more advanced sourceports run the demo's correctly from the iwads though ;)
I imagine if it can do that, pwads shouldn't be a problem either?

[smite-meister]

It would be cool for a change to actually see one of the more advanced sourceports run the demo's correctly from the iwads though ;)
I don't think that's going to happen for the reasons Graf stated above. All the "more advanced sourceports" have made modifications and fixes to the physics and AI code which will inevitably desync any vanilla Doom demos. The main reason for this is the demo format, which (like the original netcode) is simple, lightweight and clever, but allows no transmission errors or changes to the code.

[MR_ROCKET]

ah shucks..

[rustyslacker]

Can we get a "compatibility mode" then? I would like to see the demos in sync as well.

[Planky]

No, it would require far too much work to implement and there are better sourceports to use for this.

[MR_ROCKET]

Well as the story goes, Iwads will have the problem, but pwads will be in sync with what they were recorded on.
Was thinking if someone that was good with bot AI's, he could set a path to fallow, noted in the IWAD's actual DEMO lumps.
And then re-record them to be in sync.

Maybe this is something that could be done later on down the road though as an addon pwad modification.

[Devan]

other suggestion with demos. For long demos. One thing could be cool. Let's say I start recording demo. I haven't got any time to finish it, then I save the game. When I load that game, I continue recording demo :) Is this hard to make?
And I want unlimited demos size. In legacy 1.42 demo stops when it reaches 128KB size :(. Yesterday I was recording demo with vavoom. I reached 10map. Demo file is 20MB!

[smite-meister]

Continuing the recording an existing demo (from a savegame or simply from the end of the playback) should be a pretty trivial thing to do, technically. Don't any of the demo-oriented source ports already have this feature?

[Heidi]

1. This http://www.forum.zdoom.org/potato.php?t=12354

2. Zdoom-like chasecam.

3. Ingame anisotropic/FSAA controls.

4. Don't "enhance" the edges of sprites in GL mode like GZDoom does, they look like arse and totally out of place, but if you absolutely must, make it optional to the classic method.

5. Don't invert the colours when you pick up an invulnerability item, stick to the classic black and white screen.

6. Don't get rid of the solid corpse feature (read something somewhere in this forum that suggested me it could happen), it's fun to shoot dead people in deathmatch :D

[Rellik_jmd]

other suggestion with demos. For long demos. One thing could be cool. Let's say I start recording demo. I haven't got any time to finish it, then I save the game. When I load that game, I continue recording demo :) Is this hard to make?
And I want unlimited demos size. In legacy 1.42 demo stops when it reaches 128KB size :(. Yesterday I was recording demo with vavoom. I reached 10map. Demo file is 20MB!

Remember to use the

-maxdemo 2048

argument in the command line, I've got a crowded 600 frag DM game that's still under 2mb. Of course I imagine you could use 4096 or whatever size you wanted, though a 4 meg legacy demo would be friggin loooooooong.

[MR_ROCKET]

If 3-6 of all Heidi just said could be optional that would be great.
Maybe if the solid corpse could be easily walked over with a 24 unit height or something would be neat, but still have the option to turn them off and on by server side?
I think what people didn't like about them is that they were like a wall that would trap you in over time, but if they could be treated like a step to walk over then they could be fun.
I always liked to gib those dead bodies also ;)

[PumpkinSmasher]

/me agrees with rocket about solid corpses

[Heidi]

Maybe if the solid corpse could be easily walked over with a 24 unit height or something would be neat

http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=29871#8 :)

[Macro11_1]

Uhmm... Feature Requests thread.... yeah... cool! :)

Anywho, Im not shure if this has been suggested but what about being able to rotate textures (not just flats, because zdoom can do this allready), as well as maby scale them... I dont know... just a hope.

Also, one I just thought of... maby applying colour overlays to textures???

If this has been suggested allready, sorry... didnt know! I just hope youll concider this because I am one person who hates having to download 2-32 different versions of the same damn texture!

[jetflock]

what if a bad guy dies in front of a hallway that is only 60 units high? you wouldn't be able to pass....

[MR_ROCKET]

what if a bad guy dies in front of a hallway that is only 60 units high? you wouldn't be able to pass....
Solid corpse's are destructible in case you didn't know :D
So in this case you would either gibb the bad guy or disable the option in a map that has such a low ceiling height.

Maybe to add to the request, another option could be added where you could walk through the corpse "as you normally would", but also be able to gib it if wanted. -because that's the coolest thing about solid corpes's anyways, teh gibz ;)

[smite-meister]

Oh no, the coolest thing you can do with solid corpses is a Nemesis the Warlock -style map which requires you to build a macabre staircase out of killed monsters in order to reach the exit :D

[MR_ROCKET]

I want all thee above :D

Ok, so how bout something like this for the solid corpse options?
1. Always gibable.
2. The option to walk through.
3. The option to walk over.
4. Maybe the option to be able to change the walk over height of the corpse in like 8 unit steps at a time. -which could be a combination option of 2 and 3. ~ possibly a height/no height switch and a slider for the height selection. :P
5. The option to turn it all off at will.

This stuff would be best if it could all be managed from with-in the game menu and multiplayer server options.

I know a lot of this goes without saying, but I has ta say it in fear thaut it'th thow not be saidith an stuff..
Further more, etc etc..

[jetflock]

yeah, i kinda picked up on that after i posted, but i never noticed it in game, even when i selected it. i still think its odd though to have to shoot a corpse to get through a short hallway, the doomguy must have a bad back.:)

[MR_ROCKET]

Ok then, enough about the solid corpse's already ! :D

Now Macro made a suggestion about scalable textures and flats, well the joint texture standard should cover that for the most part along with NTEXTURE at least from what I can tell with a test map ;)
I like the idea about the color overlay, but not exactly sure what he meant.
Are you asking for a colormap prop that sort of works like a texture shader casting a faint color of light? - sounds cool.


Anyways, here's a first wad released for Legacy 2 called "Craps" named after the game of Craps.., though it's just started out as a test wad about large flats. I might turn it into a little open area DM map one day.

There's not much to it, but it will give you guys an idea of how a few things can be done with NTEXTURE and how I setup the batch files to automatically run a build at load time.

So anyways, have a look. I suggest running it in Opengl. and just in case your wondering, there's no special lighting, the 1462x960 FELT texture just looks like that :D There's are no items other than 2 player1 starts, one being a voodoo doll for testing, I noticed that it doesn't face the right way Smite..and in software you'l notice that the Felt texture doesn't scale correctly like it does in Opengl.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/temp2/mrcraps.zip
Oh yeah and I included the hud overlay's in case you didn't get to see them last time. ;)
Also if you recently downloaded it with-in the past few mins, I'v updated the Felt textures a bit.

[Devan]

A little thing from other thread about polygonal software renderer:
Basically, Vavoom can do it, why wouldn't Legacy2? I'm sure it could but, Vavoom and Legacy engines do things differently.
I didn't say to make legacy2 use vavoom polygonal software renderer code. If you copy code from vavoom to legacy2 it of course won't work. But different polygonal software code could be written.

[MR_ROCKET]

A little thing from other thread about polygonal software renderer:

I didn't say to make legacy2 use vavoom polygonal software renderer code. If you copy code from vavoom to legacy2 it of course won't work. But different polygonal software code could be written.
Sure, but I wouldn't know the first thing about polygonal code or the method in which Legacy2 would use it, at that who said to make legacy2 use vavoom's code?. I was stating the fact that it could be done because vavoom proved that already, so evidently it's possible.

[DooMAD]

Are there any plans for 2.0 to get rid of that pesky 32k SEGS limit? I've exceeded it on one of my maps, heh.

[Macro11_1]

Ok then, enough about the solid corpse's already ! :D
I like the idea about the color overlay, but not exactly sure what he meant.
Are you asking for a colormap prop that sort of works like a texture shader casting a faint color of light? - sounds cool.
textures a bit.
Well, thinking back on it, It was just a passing thought about textures... I notice there are allot of recolored textures and its annoying to see that... so I was sort of thinking of a way to alleviate that... but I like your Idea!

[smite-meister]

Are there any plans for 2.0 to get rid of that pesky 32k SEGS limit? I've exceeded it on one of my maps, heh.
Ever since we made the signed->unsigned change to the interpretation of the map data structures, the limits have been at 64k (or at 64k - 1, to be exact), except for subsectors and nodes, which are still limited to 32k.
If you need more segs, nodes or subsectors, use V5 GL-nodes (glbsp -v5). 4G segs and nodes/subsectors should be plenty :)

If you run out of vertices, lines, sidedefs or sectors, split your map in parts and make it a hub using MAPINFO (which is a good idea anyway, if you want a huge playing area).

[Macro11_1]

Hey, I just thought of a new feature... well I am new to ACS and Decorate, and dont know if this has been asked here, and I dont know how much of this stuff the legacy team is putting in BUT... what about custom classes, or something along those lines...

ALSO PLEASE DONT DISABLE FEATURES WITH OUT A WORK AROUND

I found that alot of things are disabled with ACS for multiplayer... and it makes it hard to work around :((

I dont know, just another suggestion :) sorry if they are really redundant.

[Arbitrary]

Been playing Doom on Fedora Core 6 and have all Wads I'm using in one directory. With this option, I have found that all of the save files save to the same directory, regardless of which wad is loaded. Thus, unless you know what you're loading, you might load a save game from another Wad and possibly crash your game. Also, that limits all of your saves to a total of six.

With that said, would it be wrong to ask that a feature to specify a save directory for a particular Wad, either through command line or in-game console, be added?

[lucius octavion]

Will the new legacy have framerate uncapped?

[smite-meister]

Will the new legacy have framerate uncapped?
Not 2.0, maybe 2.1. This would go well with the new asynchronous netcode.

[ChexBoss]

You know what would be cool?

An update.

At least gives us some new news on the legacy site. Seriously, 9-2006?

[Rellik_jmd]

Some sites like to have little updates here and there, we preffer one gigantic update every year or so that so utterly obliterates your mind you can barely remember your own name.

:-P

[jetflock]

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/play_uk.php?id=1845781
sorry, i can't resist.

[lucius octavion]

Chexboss, is that really you? As in ChexBoss32890?


And, also if you would please, is there any place I can learn some more about what is new in legacy's netcode and what it does and how it functions?

[xbolt]

Yep, that's him alright. The website in his profile is Chex Central.

[smite-meister]

And, also if you would please, is there any place I can learn some more about what is new in legacy's netcode and what it does and how it functions?
The new netcode is unfortunately not yet working. It uses the Torque Network Library. You can find some basic docs here: http://opentnl.sourceforge.net/doxydocs/.

Unfortunately OpenTNL seems nowadays hardly maintained at all. When I upgraded my computer to an AMD64, the netcode stopped working for some mysterious reason, which I still haven't fully solved. So, if you know of any netcode gurus who would be interested in updating OpenTNL so that it supports both gcc 4 and the AMD64 architecture, let me know.

[Devan]

One more feature request: ability to drop weapon, some ammo or item. This would be useful in COOP and TDM :)

And it would be nice if progress (what is done or fixed) was visible in legacy website, wish and bugs lists.

[lucius octavion]

Well, I don't exactly know much about this sort of thing, and I don't know any gurus...

[Arbitrary]

Second request: For Coop mode, could a series of commands be set up to allow bots to follow, scout, or attack? 'Cause as it stands now... their stupid. I know you aren't suggesting changing the intelligence of the AI, but what about making ones that can follow commands? That way, you can send them into unchartered territory as meat shields (Trust me, it's more fun than you can imagine!) or even have them follow you over areas that they normally aren't smart enough to pass through, like pits of lava, nukage, or the like. Or even a command to enter a teleporter ahead of you so they don't telefrag you just following you around. (As I've noticed, the AI at least have the gumption to follow you sometimes, but they don't follow too well and are as easy to distract as a cat by something they either want to pick up or a door they wish to enter. This usually makes them completely useless during the entirety of the game and makes you feel you must do the entire level yourself anyway...)

[xbolt]

Could you make a fademusic() function that fades music in/out?

[rustyslacker]

In two-player splitscreen, can the player choose whether to split the screen vertically or horizontally?

If not, can that be added?

[+Acyclitor+]

voxels?

10 character limit lawl

[rustyslacker]

7. Support for the 3D, voxel-based recreations of the original sprites. No, near impossible for OpenGL and slightly less harder for software renderer

10 moar characters

[Planky]

In two-player splitscreen, can the player choose whether to split the screen vertically or horizontally?

If not, can that be added?

I don't see why not, would be quite necessary on a widescreen display.

[shinobi]

What do you take me for, a charlatan? :)
All the map-related data has been encapsulated into a class (actually, two), so we can run as many of them simultaneously as we want. And the players can move back and forth between them, if proper bidirectional exits are in place. Only when the last player leaves, the map is deleted, or put into stasis if within a hub.

If we at some point finally get the netcode working, this could make some great new gametypes.
Consider a co-op with respawning monsters, where the first player to reach the end of the episode "wins". A sort of race, where you really don't want to fall behind :D

That was said on the L2 Screenshots thread.

Now that i know is possible..

Can you make possible to change "rooms" when playing in a DM server? Sorta like quake3 Rocket-Arena?

[MR_ROCKET]

That would be sweet, RA3 was pretty neat in that aspect as well.

[Doom_Dude]

I don't know if this has been resolved or not but it's annoying, especially since this is not a problem in the current GZDoom. I'm talking about 3D floors and monsters seeing you through them. I've searched but couldn't find any info... could be using the wrong terms... heh. I know this isn't something new but I don't remember reading if the Legacy team fixed this.... Anyhow, this isn't always much of a problem but recently I designed an area where an archnotron is beneath a 3d floor and a line trigger raises him up on a lift, through a hole in the 3d floor. In GZDoom the arachnotron doesn't see you till he's raised, yet in legacy the little bastard is roaming around before you can trigger the lift. :p Should be easy to fix if it hasn't already, right?

[EDIT]DUH! I found the info in Planky's first post and it's fixed. Ok I shut up now. :p

7. 3D floors should block the line vision of monsters. Done

[Danimetal]

Then just say "Slopes" and "crouching" until they are fixed :P.

[Doom_Dude]

I don't think I need crouching to be honest.

I wouldn't mind some 3d floors that move horizontally.... that would be damned cool.

I don't want to say slopes too often. They may start throwing stuff.

[Danimetal]

3d floors to move horizontally... That breaks the idea of the Polyobjects but would be so, soo cool... Maybe with 3d models, decorate and scripting we could do the trick, but that would be too much for the good old software renderer. Aside from that, any "linedef" structure that moves out of place is unseen on Doom except for the polyobjects. We would be talking about real sectors swapping places here. Damn cool, surely damn hard.

Crouching forever and another mention of the S word for this thread ;).

[MR_ROCKET]

The only other way I can think of currently would be to have about 80 sectors inter linked and then use FS to create and remove them 1 at a time. -basically try and get a smooth animation out of it. thing is, between creating and removing and creating another, the player will fall once one is removed.

Unless he's a good jumper heh.

[rustyslacker]

Crouching forever and another mention of the S word for this thread ;).
Sandwiches? *confused*

OH WAIT U MEAN SLOEPS *idea*

[Doom_Dude]

If a 3d floor can go up and down, why not side to side in a port? Now that I think about it from in-editor perspective..... sounds like it would be a pain with all those lines stretching out of shape and stuff. O_o.

[Danimetal]

Well, I´m not a lot into the technicalities but I don´t see it possible to have a sector moving side to side in Doom as it is right now. You know, what happens when the lines that are boundaries to your sector cross with the lines of other sectors?. How do you manage the blockmap and monster stuff in those cases?.

Rocket´s solution was "proposed" by Ebola a while ago with the tagline "painful as anal rape to perform"... Possible, but completely evil.

[MR_ROCKET]

Ebola's always been on his toes about creating things that most people haven't seen yet, I didn't know he had a solution/theory about this one once before but now that I think of it, it doesn't surprise me. heh

The thing about this type of trick though is, ok quake had this, but is it really I mean really needed?, just because it was in quake, if you bring it in the reality light so to say, I think jump pads and teleports already have this beat. I mean I'm not knocking it Doom_Dude, but in the real world of Doom, or even in the real world of Gothic times, wouldn't our technology or magic been updated enough to do away with such a low end style of transportation? :D

What I'v always thought would be neat is to have the ability to jump on a floating monster like a caco or lost soul and ride it around to a doorway somewhere in a map.

[Danimetal]

Maybe if you nullified the melee attacks of one of these creatures you could do the riding thing. Aren´t friendly creatures being written into Legacy 2 too?. That would be interesting to see... I wonder how far the decorate support does go.

As for Ebola´s solution, it was really for a train, wich only makes it more difficult :S.

[Doom_Dude]

Well, I´m not a lot into the technicalities but I don´t see it possible to have a sector moving side to side in Doom as it is right now. You know, what happens when the lines that are boundaries to your sector cross with the lines of other sectors?. How do you manage the blockmap and monster stuff in those cases?.I dunno as I can't code squat. ;) Just a broken idea I guess.

The thing about this type of trick though is, ok quake had this, but is it really I mean really needed?, just because it was in quake, if you bring it in the reality light so to say, I think jump pads and teleports already have this beat. I mean I'm not knocking it Doom_Dude, but in the real world of Doom, or even in the real world of Gothic times, wouldn't our technology or magic been updated enough to do away with such a low end style of transportation? :DOk you lost me with the transportation bit and I'm not sure what jump pads and teleports have to do with it. Do you mean those floating squares in Quake you can ride on? LOL. I wasn't even considering those things. I was thinking more along the lines of having doors open sideways, pushable crates and massive stone blocks that could be moved to the side to reveal a passage in a temple... that kinda stuffs. But if that stuff can be done with models that would probably be a lot better..

[Aliotroph?]

Some of that can and some of it can be done with polyobjs. Some kind of 3D polyobjs would be neat. That would be like how the doors work in Quake: they can move around but the engine doesn't really see them as being there except for collision detection. Too many of them would lag the game. :D

[Danimetal]

Indeed. Doors opening sideways could be done with polyobjects (in fact, you see that in ZDoom maps all the time) and we will have them available in Legacy C++ (along with a 256 sector tags limit... Strange, isn't it?)... The pushable boxes and massive rocks (why having a rock if you don't have the "s" word?) would be much different... Unless you want to have some sprites there I don't see a way to have them move around smoothly.

I remember that we talked about 3d polyobjects a while ago but there was no real deal there.

[Doom_Dude]

I will have to learn this polyobject deal. Thing is, if I can avoid scripting, I will.

[Danimetal]

I think there was no need for scripting in polyobjects... There were some Hexen linetipes that would handle the movement of a polyobject around or across an "anchor" object... Or something like that. There was some weird mambo-jumbo with angles and tags but it wasn't hard to pull.

[MR_ROCKET]

Ah sorry for the confusion Doom_Dude, when you said 3d floors that move horizontally it made me think of those floating blocks in Quake etc. that you could just plop your player actor on and go for a spin. But now it's clear to me that you wanted something different.

It's possible that some of that stuff could be done in FS. But yeah polyobjects would be the best bet when your wanting something to look as if its moving on an axis.

[Doom_Dude]

LOL Who is Doom_Doom?!

Anyhow no problem. The whole '3d moving floor' idea was just something that came off the top of my head. Didn't expect a big discussion about it. ;)

[MR_ROCKET]

Rofl, typo fixith.:D

[Danimetal]

LOL Who is Doom_Doom?!

Anyhow no problem. The whole '3d moving floor' idea was just something that came off the top of my head. Didn't expect a big discussion about it. ;)
I wish big discussions spawned in the Legacy IRC channel :P.

Now for two very serious request that have nothing to do with slopes or crouching.

-Some kind of system variable (like the zoom in OpenGl or the number of players active) that tells us when a player is in an "underwater" sector. This way we could flexibly and easily add drowing or underwater stuff scripts like :

if(playerunderwater(0)==1)...

-Another variable that could be "returned" upon a monster's death indicating the player that killed it... Maybe an unused flag on a monster could do?. This could spawn interesting co-op or multiplayer modes. An example, killing a monster grants 100 points to the player that killed it. In single player mode we can use the codepointer triggers to start a script and give the score. In multiplayer, how do we discriminate wich player to give the score to?.

Interesting gametypes could be possible with this and would be welcome with an improved netcode.

Also I ask for the return of weekend Legacy matches :P.

[Doom_Dude]

I was just thinking more about the 3d floor thing. It would be neat to be able to extend a floor over a chasm (bridge) or have a trench where these metal plates slide across the top while your down below....

Ummm anyways.

I wish big discussions spawned in the Legacy IRC channel :P.Last time I was in there it was pretty dead.

-Some kind of system variable (like the zoom in OpenGl or the number of players active) that tells us when a player is in an "underwater" sector. This way we could flexibly and easily add drowing or underwater stuff scripts like :Drowning would be good. Can we have an oxygen status bar with that?

[MR_ROCKET]

If someone makes the drowning part, I'll make an oxygen status bar for it. ;)

[Rellik_jmd]

That would be a fairly easy bit of scripting, define the sector the player has to be in, the top and bottom of the water volume, then a timer before the player starts gagging, then damage the player every second till they're toast.

I think it would be scarier without the oxygen status bar and a randomizer so that you don't really know how much breath you're gonna have. ;)

[Danimetal]

Yes, I had a Legacy wad (did I ever publish it?... Damn, I really should) full of freaky features (inventory, drowning, oxygen indicator, usable items, traps...) but the drowning was relatively cumbersome to define.

There were underwater areas with different heights so I had to either make it with a lot of scripts depending on the area or with a trick and a single script. I used the latter (something about tags, floor textures and so on) but took some time. I just kept on thinking that if we had an "underwater" flag things would be much easier.

That said I wouldn't like to have "automatic drowning", if you know what I mean. What if the author doesn't want the player to drown?. We could control it with a pretty much simple script and have an example map (sort of Rainbowstar... What if we make something like that together?) boundled with Legacy.

[Doom_Dude]

I've been doing a lot of 3D floor work lately. Due to all this messing with 3d floors I was thinking about how you can have different light levels above and below your 3d floors.... and if there was a dummy 3d floor (one that doesn't make an actual floor) in Legacy you could do lighting effects like have a high ceiling or a pit that gets darker the deeper it gets, depending on how many dummy floors you have stacked in there. Does that make any sense? Can you already do this with scripting? Man I wish I didn't suck so bad at scripting... I don't even like trying. :p I'm sure you can also fake this with textures but thats not quite the same.... Oh well, just another crap idea of mine. ;)

[Exl]

Light level below a normal 3D floor is that of the dummy sector, above that of the "normal" sector. Though it's been a while since I last used them, I do remember there also being a 3D floor type that slightly darkens everything below it on it's own.

[MR_ROCKET]

Here's that 3d floors demonstration wad thingy I made, turned out to be a helpful reference for stuff like this.
http://www.legacywiki.net/downloads/legacy_3ddemo.zip

Who's to say it can't be turned into a rainbowstar wad or even a rainbowstar DM wad heh.
But I wouldn't keep the name rainbowstar, something like demon_stration would be cool :D
RS2 conglomeration?

[Danimetal]

It is possible to darken a pit on Legacy using one of the "Create 3d light" linedefs without having to use a 3d floor. I'm not sure if it works below 3d floors but, why shouldn't it?.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah it should, just like stacking 3dfloors. Just identical control sectors with same tag but different type #. I'm thinking 303 or 305, and I think 289 was the 3dfloor without it's own sector light.

On topic, I think I'v said this, I just want a kickass netcode.

[Doom_Dude]

Hmmm interesting. I'm experimenting with some of these lines I've not used before.....

[Rellik_jmd]

Yeah you can create 3d blocks of light and stack them for a fading effect, I've even used it to create blocks of fog that gets thicker the farther down. Still not as nice as volumetric but good enough for DooM. :)

[Danimetal]

I used them with colored lighting for a fairly convincing lava effect, the top of the cave being dark and getting lighter near the lava.

Since I don't have any serious request right now I'll say that I have been going out drinking for 10 nights straight. I think I can take no more XD!.

[Doom_Dude]

10 nights of Drinking! I expect to see I3 Yeaarsz of Droom release soon. :p

[Danimetal]

10 nights of drinking indeed. Last night was crazy with 2 bottles of rum empty and the subsequent local pub raid... No wonder I am feeling depressed, lonely and slow with all that shit on my body!.

I have been invited to party tonight but I think I will refuse and stay home, safe, drinking a lot of water and calmly doing something else than drinking myself into oblivion, something like... Mapping myself into oblivion or coding myself into oblivion XD!. Summer is all about oblivion, isn't it?.

As for the 13 yearzz of drooool... Not sure, I already finished my part and gave it to Fatal a couple of weeks ago. What he is doing with is unknown to me (problably he has been drinking as well :P).

[Doom_Dude]

Fatal probably shot the project out of his spud cannon and it's imbedded in some Finnish glacier.

Ummm anyways I was thinking. Dangerous business I know but anyhow.... instead of a oxygen status bar, what about diving tanks with unknown amounts of oxygen. That way it would make more sense as to why your drowning when last time you went swimming and lasted longer.

Well gotta go walk the greyhound.....

[Danimetal]

I don't think I got your idea (still dizzy, still hungover): do you mean like having collectable oxygen tanks?. That will be most easy with the new pickup system, a FS codepointer and a single script :).

[Doom_Dude]

Yes that's what I meant..... I think.

[Danimetal]

That could be done right now with some continuosly running script. Once I made something that had a supply of oxygen for the player that was continuosly depleting and the player had to refill (basically a time limit)... The only thing was that oxygen was collected not from items, but from switches that were adequately designed to look like oxygen dispensators :).

All those ideas could go into a "show what Legacy can do" map to be binded with a future release :)... And that's a request :).

Oh, BTW, finally cut the drinking streak by watching three films in a row XD!.

[Doom_Dude]

Interesting Danimetal. Not sure if I would ever use that oxygen thing or not. ;)

Here is another thing I found. You can scroll a floor beneath a transparent floor but if you try it with floor type 281, the top of the 3d floor scrolls too. I don't see it listed in Planky's first post in this thread. It would be nice to have it fixed as it's nice to have bridges and such over moving lava or water...

[Danimetal]

Yeah, indeed!. That "bug" made impossible to have conveyor belts on 3d floors.

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah I'm sure I read about that on here before. Good to re-mention these things sometimes.

By the way, it's good you cut the drinking. :p

[Danimetal]

Another formal request: I´d like to make possible that FraggleScript spawned HUD pictures are affected by colored sectors, colormaps and lighting as weapon sprites are. This could be another flag in the picture itself.

[hung like keen]

If crouching is on the list, how come jumping isn't?

[Danimetal]

Because it is already implemented.

[Doom_Dude]

If crouching is on the list, how come jumping isn't? Please read the FAQ (http://forums.newdoom.com/faq.php), especially the part about signatures. Your sig pic is too long. Please fix it. Also animated sigs are not allowed. Fix that too.

[edit] There's something else that should be fixed and I didn't see it in Planky's list in the first post. Sometimes monsters won't step onto adjacent 3d floors. I did some tests with a map made like a hallway so the monsters didn't have any options other than walking over a 3d floor or not. I tested with a couple Imps and they would not walk onto an adjacent 3d floor that was 1 unit lower (also no gaps between floors & floors were touching one another). However they will travel across a floor that is 1 unit higher and then walk back across it. Very strange. Not sure if this has been fixed or not.

[Nomad]

I don't see it on the list on the first page, and don't feel like looking through the entire thread, but I'm a big fan of volumetric light. I'd like to see that implemented. D:

[Danimetal]

What's Nomad doing in the Legacy forums :P?.

[Nomad]

Waiting for Legacy2 to come out, since he cant get Legacy1 to work. :P

[MR_ROCKET]

Why in the hell wouldn't your Legacy1 work?
Should be as simple as slapping your IWAD's in it's working directory and running the executable. :)

[Nomad]

Yeah, I guess it works like that. I just prefer having all my wads in a single directory. Even though they're not that big, I like them organized. Whatever.

[Danimetal]

Maybe you can do what I do: have your Legacy with a copy of Doom and Doom2 wad, everything in some Legacy folder (come on, 30mb?. What´s that???) and then put the launcher outside that folder. You can easily locate your wads with the Launcher.

Give Legacy a try: it´s so full of glitches and possibilities :P. Now, serious, try it. Sometimes it happens that you just like Legacy.

[MR_ROCKET]

Oh you can put your PWADS anywhere man as long as the path is set, but most sourceports need to have the game resource wad IWADS snuggled up with the EXE's location. Which is good, because that's how the original game(s) are set up.
The sourceports are really meant to be installed to each separate game directory though, but why do that when you can copy your wads into the sourceport directories. - and have all the sourceports each in a separate sub-directory rooted off c:\Doom_sourceports, which is the way I keep things organized.
But I know what you mean, specially if you have like a 4gig drive running win2000 you'd be hurt'n heh.


For the features request.
There was this gadget I was thinking about.. Where one of those balloons would pop-up in your taskbar, but instead of a windows up date notification or something, it would pop-up saying that there's a Legacy server running, retaining up time and ping, and whether you wanted to connect to it, just by clicking the balloon. Maybe it could have a configuration to set desired ping to be visible. Basically a low resource server scanner, reminder notification.

[Nomad]

Maybe you can do what I do: have your Legacy with a copy of Doom and Doom2 wad, everything in some Legacy folder (come on, 30mb?. What´s that???) and then put the launcher outside that folder. You can easily locate your wads with the Launcher.

Give Legacy a try: it´s so full of glitches and possibilities :P. Now, serious, try it. Sometimes it happens that you just like Legacy.


Well, I have all my wads in C:/games/Doom/wads, and legacy in C:/games/Doom/Legacy. The Legacy launcher wouldn't recognize the wads in the directory I have them in, but it worked fine when I put them in the Legacy folder. But whatever, I happen to like Skulltag the most out of all of the ports I've played.

By the way, Dani, I've used Legacy before. It is, in fact, the reason that I am at NewDoom in the first place. I've just moved on to different ports since. :P

[Danimetal]

Then comeback and start mapping for Legacy damnit :P!!:

[MR_ROCKET]

Skulltag's cool, mainly because of it's online play and finally having opengl. But at the same time it's sort of strange with the way it's weapons are setup, DooM never had a grenade launcher and never needed one, or another bfg? Heh these weapons are pure luck, neither takes skill to use, you can simply spam the weapons and get nothing but luck frags. Which totally ruins the way the game was meant to be played. But the kids like 'em. It's basically a really robust weapons mod for DooM2. I know it has or had a classic setting you could run in multiplayer but you never see classic DooM wads played anymore or the way they were meant to be played, let alone a sever hosted like that. I'm hoping Legacy2 will put the classic back in the DooM community with it's online play.

Not that I don't like Skulltag, it's very cool and I like all the sourceports.
But I hope you guys know where I'm comming from with that.

[Rellik_jmd]

There was this gadget I was thinking about.. Where one of those balloons would pop-up in your taskbar, but instead of a windows up date notification or something, it would pop-up saying that there's a Legacy server running, retaining up time and ping, and whether you wanted to connect to it, just by clicking the balloon. Maybe it could have a configuration to set desired ping to be visible. Basically a low resource server scanner, reminder notification.

That would ROCK. Heh, but it's a little hard core maybe. :)

Doo dee doo, sending grandma some email doo dee doo ... OMG THERE'S A SERVER UP!

*Click click launch*

DIE DIE DIE DIE! THAT'S RIGHT! EAT IT BITCH! EAT IT UP YUM! OH YEAH! DANCE MOTHER FU-

[Nomad]

Then comeback and start mapping for Legacy damnit :P!!:

Haha. Maybe if Legacy2 supports decorate and all that other flash ZDoom stuff. :P

Skulltag's cool, mainly because of it's online play and finally having opengl. But at the same time it's sort of strange with the way it's weapons are setup, DooM never had a grenade launcher and never needed one, or another bfg? Heh these weapons are pure luck, neither takes skill to use, you can simply spam the weapons and get nothing but luck frags. Which totally ruins the way the game was meant to be played. But the kids like 'em.

I honestly only really like the minigun that was added myself. Otherwise, the SSG is still the best.

The new weapons are balanced enough, though. The BFG10k eats ammo like candy, so it's really only useful when you have a ton of cells on you. The grenade launcher is neat, but is only really useful in corridors (much like in any other game with a grenade launcher--Quake, UT, etc.). The railgun is powerful, but you have to be insanely accurate, which I'm not, so I hate that weapon. :P

I like Skulltag mostly for its visuals--it isn't too flashy, but still looks good--and the included game modes are fun. Anyway, that's really off topic.

I'm hoping Legacy2 will put the classic back in the DooM community with it's online play.

Now that is a feature I'm looking forward to. I know that has always been Legacy's biggest flaw--shitty netcode. :P

[MR_ROCKET]

Hehehe, sorry I couldn't stop laughing at Rellik's post.
Heh anyways, yeah it is a bit hardcore, but would be Sah-wheat.
I couldn't code anything like that..well not that I know of anyway..I bet xi0 or Exl could though.
We should look into seeing what it would take to achieve something like that though.

@Nomad, yeah well I think 1.4x's netcode was pretty much for LAN use. That said, it does a pretty good job considering no client prediction stuff going on. In other words, it's raw, no effects. For DM it's tough to find players with less than a 50 ping and well anything over would be the glitch that brakes good playability, and you need that low ping playability in Deathmatch. Never the less, on LAN it's pretty good. And can also be good if you get a local internet game going with low pings to each other. Other than that, yeah. What hurts Legacy 1.4x's netplay most of all is not being able to see other games running without having to go in game to look. That and not being able to see ping's. Without these things you'l end up blindly connecting to a high ping server on the other side of the world heh.

[hung like keen]

I didn't see it on the list, but you know how dead monsters won't gib? like, if you shoot an explosive barrel,and the corpse sitting (laying?) right next to it doesn't even twitch, when by all rights it should gib just like the live monster standing next to it? can something be done about that?

also, tracer rounds, and possibly a "whizz" as it, er, whizzes by.

Destructible fireballs and rockets. Like the Redeemer from UT, fireballs and rockets should be able to be shot down by those with well enough an aim

[Planky]

Corpses gib fine when you shoot them - hadn't noticed explosions didn't have an effect.

[Mike.Reiner]

Well, I have all my wads in C:/games/Doom/wads, and legacy in C:/games/Doom/Legacy. The Legacy launcher wouldn't recognize the wads in the directory I have them in, but it worked fine when I put them in the Legacy folder. But whatever, I happen to like Skulltag the most out of all of the ports I've played.

By the way, Dani, I've used Legacy before. It is, in fact, the reason that I am at NewDoom in the first place. I've just moved on to different ports since. :P
Yeah, legacy was good times.
I've got all my iwads in D:\games\doom\iwads, but with legacy it's D:\games\doom\sourceports\legacy\ and then i've got 1.42 and 1.41b with iwads in there.
as old school as it is to have the iwads in the exe's directory, I personally prefer to keep it organized a bit more.

Dude.. do you seriously live in syracuse utah?.. I live in clinton... right by clearfield..

[hung like keen]

Corpses gib fine when you shoot them - hadn't noticed explosions didn't have an effect.

they don't. only if the monster is alive when exploded


what about dripping lava from the imp fireballs? or sparks from the plasma rifle or BFG blasts?

[Danimetal]

You mean exploding corpses instead of monsters... I see, that has never been in Doom and I don't see it as a "significant" feature but you could implement youself with some scripting and dehacked work: make the thing "shootable", give it enough health to survive anything but a blast and run a script linked to the "death" frame that refills health like each 3 gametics... New frames should be used and new things would be replaced. Look at "The Sky May Be", that wad has creative use of monsters that die and become something else.

As for dripping lava and sparks: that could be done with scrips linked to states. So far Legacy has no particle support but since DECORATE is gonna be added I hope for the ability to add your own things. Create the "spark" or "lava drip" thing and just spawn it randomly in every frame at the projectile's position via scripting. If you limit the number of frames of existance with DECORATE (something like the already existing drops of blood, that dissapear after a while) everything should be fine.

I think that the duration of the drops of blood is not hardcoded but can be changed by the user with some "bloodtime" variable. The duration of these sparks should be fixed instead. You could change it with scripting again like:

-mobj drip=lavadrip;
-spawn(drip, x, y, angle, z);
-pushobject(drip, yaddayaddayadda);
-wait(timeyousetyourself);
-removeobj(drip);

But I tend to remember that "removeobj" caused memory leaks as it didn't disallocate memory or something.

[Mike.Reiner]

I love blood time in legacy. But the problem with it is, it can help legacy reach it's sprite count limit very quickly. When playing coop with lots of monsters (wads like alien vendetta, hell revealed, deus vult) you can find yourself fighting invisible monsters enough as it is.

[Danimetal]

Maybe the amount of visible monsters will be increased for the C++ version?.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah I remember if you have a room full of them, too many of them heh, the sprites will start disappearing. Disabling splats would help and it seemed it was only an issue with custom maps not Iwads. I hope it will be fixed, but there will probably have to be some sort of restraint like that in order to have a ton of models lurking about. But you'd think that in the C++ version having too many would be unheard of. I think it was a video memory cap in 1.4x, but in the C++ version there is no such thing afaik.

[jetflock]

yeah, thats something i have been wanting a long time, as i love doing "sprite tricks" in my wads.

[smite-meister]

But you'd think that in the C++ version having too many would be unheard of. I think it was a video memory cap in 1.4x, but in the C++ version there is no such thing afaik.
Yeah, we removed the memory cap which makes absolutely no sense with present-day OSs, and at least the OpenGL renderer draws as many sprites as there are to be seen (it will simply get slower and slower if there are too many). Not quite sure about the software renderer, it may still have a cap on the number of vissprites.

[Mike.Reiner]

Yeah I remember if you have a room full of them, too many of them heh, the sprites will start disappearing. Disabling splats would help and it seemed it was only an issue with custom maps not Iwads. I hope it will be fixed, but there will probably have to be some sort of restraint like that in order to have a ton of models lurking about. But you'd think that in the C++ version having too many would be unheard of. I think it was a video memory cap in 1.4x, but in the C++ version there is no such thing afaik.

Yeah, we removed the memory cap which makes absolutely no sense with present-day OSs, and at least the OpenGL renderer draws as many sprites as there are to be seen (it will simply get slower and slower if there are too many). Not quite sure about the software renderer, it may still have a cap on the number of vissprites.
Well most specifically, playing Deus Vult on legacy was pretty damn nuts. You could only see 1/4 of the monsters at any given time! haha.

[MR_ROCKET]

I could understand there being some sort of system where the sprites will never be visible until they are meant to be, though. So say you have 3000 sprites in a map if that's even possible (or if should even be allowed to be possible) heh, shouldn't there be a kind of vis-portal, something like what Doom3 has? - not visable/not drawn until they should actually be visable. That way you wont be using up to much memory on just the sprites?

I know it's easy to say that, but if there is some given older map that relies on the sprites awaken movement from the beginning, wouldn't it be hard to determine how this would work? and would such a thing even work in multiplayer?

I know, this is just my (not fully read into) theory. ;)

Edit: ok I was a bit intoxicated when I made this post lol

[Danimetal]

I am intoxicated right now. Need EVEN more cofee to stay awake. Just 1 hour of sleep was not enough. That said, didn't the original Doom Renderer sort wich sprites to draw and which not to draw depending on the linedefs?. I think that it just didn't check for sprite overdraw. Anyway... I don't know. I need to sleep now.

[jester]

Guys,

Just thought I'd post a message because it's been a while since I did. I've come up with this bloody long wish list based on going through years worth of the forums, just been so busy I havn't had time to finish it off yet. I'll put it up on here soon. When I do, any chance we can get the Legacy site updated with it?

Cheers.

[hung like keen]

will there be Strife functionality?

[MR_ROCKET]

Not that I'v heard of yet, right now it supports all the Doom's, Heretic, and now Hexen with everything engine wise being updated to todays standards.
Maybe later another coder will come along and want to add Strife or someone will make a Hexen to Strife mod?

Request:
I recall in DM having a hard time seeing the tan colored player against tan colored wall textures.
Could that color player be replaced with something else? maybe white?

[DooMAD]

37. A function that sets the fog for the level.

I guess MAPINFO would be a logical place to implement that? It would certainly be an improvement on using the console or the menu to do it manually.



//Edit

Also, since I don't see it in the list in the first post, vertical alignment for textures on 3D floors would be nice. At the moment it seems as if the texture is always drawn from the top and changing the Y offset has no effect. I had to create a custom texture to fix this misalignment (http://www.teamhellspawn.com/yalign.gif).

[Arbitrary]

Maybe you can do what I do: have your Legacy with a copy of Doom and Doom2 wad, everything in some Legacy folder (come on, 30mb?. What´s that???) and then put the launcher outside that folder. You can easily locate your wads with the Launcher.

Give Legacy a try: it´s so full of glitches and possibilities :P. Now, serious, try it. Sometimes it happens that you just like Legacy.
And just what happens when you use Linux and there is no launcher made specificly for Legacy by Legacy?

[smite-meister]

If you're on Linux, you can do things the right way: use the environment variable DOOMWADDIR. It should point to the directory where you store all your WADs (e.g. /usr/share/games/doom). Once the variable is set, Legacy automagically locates them, and so do many other source ports.

[Heidi]

Just curious but has the chasecam been improved?

[smite-meister]

Improved yes, perfect no.
In OpenGL the chasecam mode is actually playable thanks to the new third-person crosshair system, which shows where your shots will actually land.
The chasecam will still occasionally get stuck in corners, although it will warp back next to you if it gets left far enough behind.

So, if someone is interested in coding a system in which the chasecam elegantly evades all obstacles following a smooth spline path, let me know :)

[MR_ROCKET]

Is chasecam implemented into the menu system?

It would be cool to have some more command switchers like that in the menu. :P

[Heidi]

So, if someone is interested in coding a system in which the chasecam elegantly evades all obstacles following a smooth spline path, let me know :)

Would ZDoom's perfect chasecam code be of any help?, even if you can't integrate the code into Legacy, it might tell you how it's done.

[smite-meister]

It probably would, but the ZDoom licence is not compatible with GPL, which is a small problem.

[Nerd42]

Machinima tools? Like, an easy to to encode demos to videos, recam demos, do "bluescreen" effects and/or put images on screen? that'd be cool, at least for laughs

also support for all the awesomely incredibly hillarious DOOM mods that there are out there liek Star Wars Doom, Marine Doom, Lega Doom ect?

[Heidi]

Legacy is a Doom port, not a clown.

[Aliotroph?]

It probably would, but the ZDoom licence is not compatible with GPL, which is a small problem.

Sounds like a cause for some reverse engineering (unless of course they also patented the thing). GPL doesn't cover algorithms IIRC.

[Heidi]

How about asking the author for permission first?, you know, it's not that anyone would be claiming that this particular piece of the ZDoom code belongs to smite, it shouldn't be that much of a deal to Randy given the proper recognition and references *cool*

[Aliotroph?]

This has me curious about several things now:

What license does ZDoom use?
Where'd Legacy get a bunch of GPL-compatible Hexen code? Did Smite and Pate make it?
Might it not be possible to ask Randy for a copy of the chasecam code under a different license? This would be assuming he wrote his own. If he has a copy just sitting on his computer then he'd have the ability to distribute copies with different licenses methinks.


There are days I wish I spent more time programming and less time telling people how to turn Windows Vista off (yes, I actually did that today).

Meanwhile Activision merged with Blizzard and is now owned by Vivendi. Goodbye dreams of GPL'd Hexen, barring some fantastic miracle.

[smite-meister]

What license does ZDoom use?

I just realized that I don't even know. The docs directory in the ZDoom source tree has a a copy of the original Doom licence and the BUILD licence. The source files have varying copyright info in them, and AFAIK ZDoom uses Raven code so it would have to comply with the Raven "licence" as well.

Where'd Legacy get a bunch of GPL-compatible Hexen code? Did Smite and Pate make it?

I wrote it for the most part. There is still some non-GPL compatible Raven code included, but we intend to either replace it or make an independent DLL plugin out of it, so the Legacy code stays GPL-clean.
Note that the legal status of the Raven code is anything but clear, and it seems to me extemely unlikely that anybody would ever contest our use of the code either way.

Might it not be possible to ask Randy for a copy of the chasecam code under a different license? This would be assuming he wrote his own. If he has a copy just sitting on his computer then he'd have the ability to distribute copies with different licenses methinks.

Of course. The holder of the copyright (Randy) can re-licence his code as many times has he likes, as long as none of the licences claims to be exclusive.

[Heidi]

"ZDOOM is an exception to the licensing trend of DOOM ports. Due to complex licensing issues caused by use of code from Heretic, Hexen, Quake, and Ken Silverman's BUILD engine, ZDOOM cannot be released under the GPL. It is, however, under a liberal license called BSD, which allows at least some of its source code to be used in GPL ports"

http://www.doomworld.com/10years/ports/ports02_1.php