tHE MagICaL wORld oF CHRISTIANItY [Archive]

cchristianTP

September 30th, 2006, 09:02 PM

EDIT: PLEASE DO NOT EXPLODE AFTER READING THE FOLLOWING
it is ONLY a statement, it's a little dramatized but astop pissing over it.

Haha. Sounds pretty true. And then there's the people who turn him into a scapegoat for all their problems. The Bible implies that humans are responsible for their choices. And that just goes against it.

Many christians are extreme blashphemisers. and they always think that jesus is God... IDK WTF. that might be part of thier religion, IDK, I don't know how to tell, theres no old holy book or legit. prophecy that the christians follow. one small reason why I say it's an illigitimate religion...

Nomad

September 30th, 2006, 09:21 PM

Christianity has bad policies, always has (though less during that period after the second time Saint Jesus left, when it was underground...)

Many christians are extreme blashphemisers. and they always think that jesus is God... IDK WTF. that might be part of thier religion, IDK, I don't know how to tell, theres no old holy book or legit. prophecy that the christians follow. one small reason why I say it's an illigitimate religion...

What the hell are you talking about? What "policies" are you referring to?

The "old book" you may be looking for is the Old Testament, which to the Jews would be the Torah, which would contain the "legitimate" prophecies they have followed. According to the Christians, yes--Jesus is God incarnate. Of course, to Jewish folk and Muslims, Jesus was nothing more than another prophet.

Which, I'd like to ask why you specifically said "Saint" Jesus? I can only guess that you are Muslim or Jewish? In either case, whatever your own religion is, you should really learn more about another religion before you try bashing it in a public forum.

I'm athiest, by the way, so don't accuse me of defending Christianity. I'm just an advocate of non-ignorance.

xbolt

September 30th, 2006, 11:39 PM

Okay... I cant watch the movie, because my internet filtering system is crud. But I can try to reply to what you guys have said with what little arguing skills I have.

Christianity has bad policies, always has
What policies? Please elaborte.

The Bible implies that humans are responsible for their choices.
And they are. Now, at any minute, God could turn us all into robots, but instead, He chooses to allow everybody the free will to do as they choose.

they always think that jesus is God
Yes, we do. Now, I don't know exactly how that works, but I believe it to be true.

theres no old holy book or legit. prophecy that the christians follow
Yes there is. It's called the Bible. You should pick it up and read it sometime. It's really quite interesting.

And there's something I've often wondered. Why do most people bash Christianity, and not some other religion? I'm really curious.

KuriKai

October 1st, 2006, 12:05 AM

Everyone: Please ignore "cchristianTP". He talks about shite, as you can tell if you read his posts in the doomsday forum. He is a troll.

cchristianTP: Please die.

Aliotroph?

October 1st, 2006, 01:28 AM

We bash Christianity because it's the one we have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Islam gets bashed a lot too though. Islam, Christianity and Judaism all come from the same root and I think they're all nonsense anyway. Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Scientology, Ba'hai, etc. all sound like nonsense to me too.

The two religions that get bashed the most though are the ones who currently have the most members who conspicuouly persecute others. If types like that Phelps family had their way we'd live in Hell on Earth and they'd be the kings. They just give other Christians a bad reputation for people who aren't going to spend the time to differentiate between all the different kinds of Christians.

Nomad

October 1st, 2006, 07:02 AM

Everyone: Please ignore "cchristianTP". He talks about shite, as you can tell if you read his posts in the doomsday forum. He is a troll.

I'd belive "complete idiot" before I believed troll. But then again, I'm not sure if someone could be that stupid.

Haha. Sounds pretty true. And then there's the people who turn him into a scapegoat for all their problems. The Bible implies that humans are responsible for their choices. And that just goes against it.

I didn't notice this comment before. I must say, look closer.

The bible implies that Satan is responsible for all of humans' bad choices. Humans, apparantly, would be completely free of sin without the influence of Satan.

Which brings up an interesting paradox in Christian thinking, of course. Many people will say that "God let 9/11 happen, so it must be for our own good." However, I believe eX_DoOmY said in the "religion" thread, that God does not interfere with humans' choice to believe in him, so it seems VERY unlikely that God would either, Actually influence the events of September 11th, 2001 himself, as that would violate the choice for humans to believe in him, causing people to "fear his wrath," or Not allow Satan to influence the events to happen, because that would violate human choice as well; i.e. if the planes just disappeared out of the sky, or some similar scenario.

Of course, there is no actual "paradox" in this situation, and is actually somewhat logical. But the paradox is in traiditional Christian thinking. God does not will tragic things to happen. If he did, free will would be null. God knows about it, being omniscient, but he doesn't do anything about it, because that, again, would violate free will.

However. You still have the scapegoat of Satan influencing all of Man's sinful choices, which is paradox against free will. Any which way you turn it, Satan is a violation of free will.

I'd also like to bring up, that since God is Omniscient and everything, why the hell he bothered to flood the world and kill everyone (as told in the ridiculous story of Noah and the Ark), because he was "embarassed" of his creations--instead of getting rid of the true problem, Satan. This God fellow sounds like a real douche bag to me.

By the way, cchristianTP, it's not possible to talk about the "politics" of Christianity without actually discussing Christianity itself.

cchristianTP

October 1st, 2006, 08:55 PM

Dude, you flippin out
I was messin with ya.
Lolzors
but if you wan't a debate or somethin' I'd be willin ta give it.

the bible is the holy book of the christians. why do you bash them?[/Qoute]
no. they make up stuff as they go, the idea that christians will be saved before the end of the world? thats made up. and it's not just that, read the bible, youl stop being a christian. trust me, ive been at this "what's the best religion" thing for years, I can tell it's not christianity.
and as to bashing them, WHY NOT? Tehy have the most members, and the prominant ones are full of it. (see fred phileps before he had the siezure...)

[QUOTE=Nomad]By the way, cchristianTP, it's not possible to talk about the "politics" of Christianity without actually discussing Christianity itself.
I know, it's fun though, because they bet so mad and they have not enough arguments to stand.
(but to clarify, i'm not an atheist. that story about noah is just a story, and any reformist Jew will agree that it never really happend... well, actually we can prove that that flood might have happened, just not on a worldwide scale...)

Nomad

October 1st, 2006, 10:34 PM

I'm sorry, pal, but you do not appear even remotely intelligent enough to actually engage in a debate about a religion you don't know shit about.

cchristianTP

October 2nd, 2006, 09:50 AM

I MESSIN WIT YA!
Ok? I REALLY don't like chrisianity, I'm sorry if you don't agree.
BUT I DO know what i'm talking about, thats why I left the religion.

It feels good to have one of the most popular/Infamous threads started by me! ^-^

rustyslacker

October 2nd, 2006, 10:59 AM

no. they make up stuff as they go, the idea that christians will be saved before the end of the world? thats made up. and it's not just that, read the bible, youl stop being a christian. trust me, ive been at this "what's the best religion" thing for years, I can tell it's not christianity.
and as to bashing them, WHY NOT? Tehy have the most members, and the prominant ones are full of it. (see fred phileps before he had the siezure...)
Made up as they go along? The Bible was written way back in the day, and translated to modern languages. It's nothing new. It hasn't been rewritten.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8692/fail3ir.jpg

cchristianTP

October 2nd, 2006, 01:12 PM

no, the christians themselvs made thier own stuff up, half of the religion is made up. they don't really believe in it all anyway, AND they act like the Old testament is 100% true, Ask any good rabbi, it's not.

they also refuse to listen to other peoples points of views, even if your not trying to tell them it's true, just presenting... that seems kinda... Brainwashy

But anyways all the people here need to just CALM DOWN.
It was a statement, and it is NOT part of the origional debate.

KuriKai

October 2nd, 2006, 03:00 PM

cchristianTP: you are an idiot

cchristianTP

October 2nd, 2006, 03:08 PM

cchristianTP: you are an idiot
THANK YOU.
you have backed my point of this.

rustyslacker

October 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM

*roflmao* dlgaiherwior;ehopehj

Aliotroph?

October 2nd, 2006, 04:55 PM

Made up as they go along? The Bible was written way back in the day, and translated to modern languages. It's nothing new. It hasn't been rewritten.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8692/fail3ir.jpg

It was probably rewritten back in the day, with lots of content copied and translated from even older languages. Parts that were new were added and removed along with some parts that were old. It's all very old but it's certainly not a monolithic work created in any one time.

cchristianTP

October 2nd, 2006, 05:03 PM

*giddy*
*rotflmao*

rustyslacker

October 2nd, 2006, 05:30 PM

It was probably rewritten back in the day, with lots of content copied and translated from even older languages. Parts that were new were added and removed along with some parts that were old. It's all very old but it's certainly not a monolithic work created in any one time.
Obviously it's been revised and such. It's called the New Testament. But my position is still valid: These revisions are not modern at all. There hasn't been a rewrite of the Bible since...a very long time ago.

eX_Do0mY

October 2nd, 2006, 05:57 PM

However. You still have the scapegoat of Satan influencing all of Man's sinful choices, which is paradox against free will. Any which way you turn it, Satan is a violation of free will.

I'd also like to bring up, that since God is Omniscient and everything, why the hell he bothered to flood the world and kill everyone (as told in the ridiculous story of Noah and the Ark), because he was "embarassed" of his creations--instead of getting rid of the true problem, Satan. This God fellow sounds like a real douche bag to me.

By the way, cchristianTP, it's not possible to talk about the "politics" of Christianity without actually discussing Christianity itself.

In a way, Satan isn't a violation of free will. Humans have the choice to do Satan's will/have the capability to "sin." Sinning is following Satan's will, so if you sin, you are a "follower" of Satan. If we didn't have the choice to do this, we wouldn't have free will either.

Satan can say, "Lets go to Vegas and have a Hell of a time!" You can say, "Sure, lets win some and lose some," or say, "No, I have better things to do than go gamble my money away."

Angels have the promise of eternal life. God isn't going to break a promise. God only wanted to share the gift of life, good or bad.

On the other hand, good or evil is just a point of view.

Nomad is the only one that is really educated in Christianity, and yet still doesn't follow it that I know of.

Now, no more on this topic. This is just a hate thread, which is against the rules that were originally proposed.

cchristianTP, be more like Nomad and go get an education. I bet you're just some kid who hasn't passed puberty yet, and are pissed off because your parents are trying to steer you in the direction down the path that the Lord has set up for you, by making you go to church every Sunday. Suck it up, and go grow some balls, and some pubic hair while you're at it. Understand what your parents are trying to tell you, and look at it with an open mind, and back up your arguements you have previously posted.

Good night fellas, have a good one.

MR_ROCKET

October 2nd, 2006, 06:03 PM

Yeah we would need one of those really really really really really old Bibles to really know for sure :D

rustyslacker

October 2nd, 2006, 06:16 PM

Good night fellas, have a good one.
G'night eX. :)

cchristianTP, what's your name mean?

cchristianTP

October 2nd, 2006, 07:02 PM

OK you guys missed the point entirely...

My name means:
cchristian: Is my alias
TP: TruePunkery (coming bakck to teh wurld in a month!) *Dances* *giddy*

Nomad

October 2nd, 2006, 07:11 PM

In a way, Satan isn't a violation of free will. Humans have the choice to do Satan's will/have the capability to "sin." Sinning is following Satan's will, so if you sin, you are a "follower" of Satan. If we didn't have the choice to do this, we wouldn't have free will either.

Oh, great. It's you. ;)

Well, apparantly because of Satan's influence on Eve, ALL human beings are sinful by nature. So, you are proposing that we are all followers of Satan? If we're born to inherently sin, we don't have any choice not to be a follower of Satan then.

Haha. You set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down.

Satan can say, "Lets go to Vegas and have a Hell of a time!" You can say, "Sure, lets win some and lose some," or say, "No, I have better things to do than go gamble my money away."

I guarantee that even the most virtuous person in the world has sinful thoughts, whether they like it or not. Again, because we are born to inherently sin, according to your statement above, we are all unwittingly followers of Satan.

Nomad is the only one that is really educated in Christianity, and yet still doesn't follow it that I know of. ... cchristianTP, be more like Nomad and go get an education. I bet you're just some kid who hasn't passed puberty yet, and are pissed off because your parents are trying to steer you in the direction down the path that the Lord has set up for you, by making you go to church every Sunday. Suck it up, and go grow some balls, and some pubic hair while you're at it. Understand what your parents are trying to tell you, and look at it with an open mind, and back up your arguements you have previously posted.

Aww, I'm flattered. :) I agree, though--cchristianTP obviously has not done his homework to be putting out such statments without any kind of backing. You and I may not agree about religion, but I think we can agree that each other is not stupid. ;)

Now, no more on this topic. This is just a hate thread, which is against the rules that were originally proposed.

I definitely agree here. There is absolutely no reason to be outright attacking Christianity, or any religion. Although, in our previous debates here, my arguments could certainly be construed as attacking Christianity, but hey--debates tend to get like that, I'm sure.

xbolt

October 2nd, 2006, 11:32 PM

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/8692/fail3ir.jpg
*roflmao* Hooray! Something interesting in this thread!

MR_ROCKET

October 3rd, 2006, 03:43 AM

Yeah really lol.

cchristianTP

October 3rd, 2006, 05:13 PM

No but dude, I didn't mean for it to be endless "Don't talk of the christians BLAH! Iv'e read the bible BLAH! You don't know what you talking about BLAH!"
It's just the stupid head people...
This was origionally about the video and the crazy lady in it!

g6672D

October 3rd, 2006, 06:48 PM

There's not much to say about the person itself, but what she apparently stands for. Therefore, this thread going to religious discussion was inevitable! And with certain discussions comes flamewars...

cchristianTP

October 3rd, 2006, 07:13 PM

yay, fire...
fire is cool.....

But I started the heated disscussion about how people can disagree with me and not feeling that christianity is a valid religion... of course thats not what the current discussion is about.
It's about a dead dog being kicked (poor doggy...)

Nomad

October 3rd, 2006, 09:11 PM

Christianity is a "valid" religion, in more than one meaning of the word. It is just as valid as any other religion. However, all religions' validity are purely based on faith. You can certainly say that Christianity is incredible, but I don't think you can say it is "invalid".

CrazedImp

October 4th, 2006, 12:19 AM

Congratulations cchristianTP, you dont like Christianity. Theres no need for you to go spreading it about. What people do and dont decide to follow religion wise is their choice, you dont have any right to go giving anything against it. So if you dont like it, fine, but keep your mouth shut.
Christianity is a valid relgion. End of story. You can provide no proof that it isnt.

And you said TP is coming back to the world in a month? Whoop Dee Doo. I can assure you most people here wont care (especially those in the Doomsday forums), and I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt come at all as i think all of your bragging of things you claim to have made and done are all attention seeking acts.

I still want to know how you can still post seeing how many of the replies you get towards you are often hostile.

cchristianTP

October 4th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Kick the fucking dead dog!
Crazed imp: WTF? There is no discussion here, just people yelling at me. you don't have to make it worse by tring to pretend that it is a valid debate... and I am not saying anything about christianity anymore. i don't even know why I'm still here...

And by saying that it is not a valid Religion I do not mean it in tht way, I just mean to say that it is not something tht i consider reasonable... yet I will take that it IS a leap of faith, though rather elastic... But OK, it's a religion, and some may call it a Way of life. But I don't accept it. Please stop the random flame war (although i do somewhat deserve it...)

*LEAVES*

rustyslacker

October 4th, 2006, 08:30 PM

i don't even know why I'm still here...
*LEAVES*
YAAAAAAAAY!!
*party*

CrazedImp

October 5th, 2006, 05:42 AM

*Joins rustys party*

g6672D

October 5th, 2006, 05:47 AM

/me also joins rustyslacker's party.

Yagisan

October 5th, 2006, 08:08 AM

/me brings some drinks, passes them around and makes himself at home in the party.

Sigma

October 6th, 2006, 09:29 PM

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2685/untitledcc2.png (http://imageshack.us)

Party? Where?

---

In a way, Satan isn't a violation of free will. Humans have the choice to do Satan's will/have the capability to "sin." Sinning is following Satan's will, so if you sin, you are a "follower" of Satan. If we didn't have the choice to do this, we wouldn't have free will either.

However, Satan does not truly have a will. He is simply orchestrating the objective God gave to him. Refer to the entire God being omniscient argument, et cetera. Debate about religion is quite ridiculous-- as religion encompasses the farthest spectrum from logic, a debate is cumbersome. The single thing a religious individual has is their watered down, broken, see-through faith to support them. Faith equals opinion; the difference is, I have something to actually justify the existence of my opinion.

cchristianTP

October 17th, 2006, 07:41 PM

XIX youre STILL taliking about ""'"the 'Topic'"'""???????????

There is none!!!!!!!
This is about kicking a Dead Dog.

(of course I agree that debating religion is a bad Idea, Even before it started a flamefest)

*is still gone, so don't stop celebrating....* :b

Aliotroph?

October 17th, 2006, 08:30 PM

Sure, he's still talking about it (if you consider two weeks ago to be still talking about it). You're not the only person he might want to debate with. :p

CrazedImp

October 17th, 2006, 09:19 PM

cchristianTP if you were gone you wouldnt post.

Pieter Enis

November 24th, 2006, 07:01 AM

Congratulations cchristianTP, you dont like Christianity. Theres no need for you to go spreading it about. ...[text here, go back if you want to read it]... So if you dont like it, fine, but keep your mouth shut.

This enrages me. Now, the whole shazmat about religion and Christianity sucking or not sucking I know of.
Christianity, along with many other religions, is full of contradictions. We know that, by fact. If you don't yet, go read the Bible, you should get the hang of it pretty soon. I'm not going to join in this discussion yet.
Back to what enraged me: "If you don't like something, shut up about it"
That's what it came down to, no? Now, I can't stand opinions like that. Discussions are fueled by people saying they don't like something, followed by people saying they like that particular thing. They contradict one another. If no one would be allowed to say it if they didn't like something, we'd be living robots, following the commands of our Master, whoever that might be.
I personally don't like that idea. If I don't like something, and I want to say it out loud, I will. Why? Because I CAN! Free speech isn't actually out there, but we are allowed to say most things we want to say. If it's an untrue 'fact', it will be swamped by the true facts the communion will provide. Therefor I say: If someone wants to say something, LET THEM!
Hereby also explaining why I am against the hiding or banning of information, in any of it's many forms

And lastly: You've been kicking that dead dog (fun way of saying it, innit?) since page 1, cchristian already said he was trying to provoke. Be that as it may, whether he's stupid or not, he already got the hint he made a boo-boo and, in some way, already apologised.

And that woman has "dumb" written all over her face, I can actually see it -.-
Dumb in such a way that she's easily influenced.

[Edit] It's good to be back, but dang ... that long ago? Pffft. Felt like I had to post this anyways.

Nomad

November 24th, 2006, 09:13 AM

Actually, we pretty much just wanted cchristianTP to shut up because he's a douche bag. But he's banned now, so it's all good. BRING ON THE HATE!

Aliotroph?

November 24th, 2006, 09:21 AM

I consider religion to be a theoretically-solvable social problem. I also consider the concept of a belief system based solely on faith to be inherently evil and dangerous since it discourages thinking. Thinking anything on your own is fine but going around and scaring people into thinking the same thing with no attempt at transparency or discovery is evil.

Yagisan

November 24th, 2006, 10:47 AM

For a moment, I was scared cchristianTP came back.

Pieter Enis

November 26th, 2006, 09:14 AM

Yeh, I just made a new account so I could expel my deepest innermost hatred and then log out to turn back into my "cute, cuddly normal self"
Cults do nothing but discouraging thinking, by the by
Although I still think religion is just a socially acceptable cult

blood imp

January 9th, 2007, 04:16 PM

no, the christians themselvs made thier own stuff up, half of the religion is made up
Actually, lot's of ideas in Christianity are not entirely made up, but rather altered versions of other cults. For example, the going to church on Sunday comes from sun-worship, thus the name SUNDAY.

Apart from this, the fact that half of the stuff in a belief is made up makes it a belief! If Christianity had all the same ideas as the rest of the world, then there would be no need for it. A religion without its own ideas isn't a religion at all, but a cult made so someone can brainwash people into thinking their ideas are original, thus becoming the cult's leader and gaining some power.

Conclusion: the quoted statement is both false information and complete BS.

About the video itself, the lady looked FREAKY, as if... p-p-p-possesed! LOL!! Anyway, its fanatics like that that are the whole reason things like Al'Queda exist. Without the fanatics, the idea would be useless.

P.S. I am an Atheist.
P.S.S. The Bible is a good book, even if I don't share many of its beliefs. I consider it a good novel.
P.S.S.S. Sorry about reviving a 2-month old thread.

Nomad

January 9th, 2007, 04:28 PM

Actually, lot's of ideas in Christianity are not entirely made up, but rather altered versions of other cults. For example, the going to church on Sunday comes from sun-worship, thus the name SUNDAY.

Um, no. Sunday worship is because that is the day that "god" set aside for worship. The name of the day doesn't matter. The whole seven day advent thing; Sunday is the day he "rested," and is the day he wants his people to worship.

Monday = Mani, a Germanic god.
Tuesday = Tiu/Týr, one of the Norse gods of war.
Wednesday = Wodan/Odin, Norse god.
Thursday = Thor, Norse god.
Friday = Frigg, Norse god.
Saturday = Saturn, Roman god.
Sunday = the Sun

While Sunday does reference to the sun, you must remember that Modern English has only been around for about 300 years. As opposed to the languages they spoke 2,000 years ago. I'm sure in Aramaic, Latin, and Greek, the names of the week are different, and can probably guarantee that their names for Sunday have nothing to do with the sun.

Regardless, "Sunday" hasn't always been the mass day. Traditionally, Saturday was.

blood imp

January 9th, 2007, 04:38 PM

Good point there. Overlooked that part... yeah. Well you proved me wrong, although Christianity (and most other religions) does have many beliefs that aren't original.

Nomad

January 9th, 2007, 07:21 PM

I don't refute that, obviously. I just don't like leaving people with the half-truth. :)

Pieter Enis

January 10th, 2007, 03:33 AM

And God's image comes from Zeus' :p
This is the first time ever I've gotten an explanation for the names of the days.
Makes sense when you think about it thoroughly ...

FATAL

January 10th, 2007, 05:49 AM

Apart from this, the fact that half of the stuff in a belief is made up makes it a belief! If Christianity had all the same ideas as the rest of the world, then there would be no need for it. A religion without its own ideas isn't a religion at all, but a cult made so someone can brainwash people into thinking their ideas are original, thus becoming the cult's leader and gaining some power.
The pope has unbelievable (hehheh) influence on most catholic countries, mainly the South American ones, but many others as well. His stupid and totally unrealistic ideologies ruin the lives of millions.

Pieter Enis

January 10th, 2007, 05:56 AM

But so do the ideologies of the tribes themselves. I'm mostly talking about female circumcision here tho.

Nomad

January 10th, 2007, 09:31 AM

I thought that was mostly a Muslim thing.

blood imp

January 10th, 2007, 01:45 PM

The pope has unbelievable (hehheh) influence on most catholic countries, mainly the South American ones, but many others as well. His stupid and totally unrealistic ideologies ruin the lives of millions.
I considered John Paul II a really nice guy. He seemed like the kind of person who would forgive anybody. Even if he did cause the death of millions, I still liked him, and got sad at his death.

EDIT: Oh, wait. Are you talking about the current Pope, Benedict... XVI I believe.

FATAL

January 11th, 2007, 08:36 AM

All of them. And while not at least directly killing people, the catholic church sure makes the lives of many miserable. Their politics are especially harmful to poor people, who can't get reliable information about things like sexual education (sexually transmitted diseases, way more kids than what really would be enough), politics (vote for the most catholic dudes) and such.

Aliotroph?

January 11th, 2007, 10:34 AM

Poor people have lots of kids whether they're Catholic or not. Granted, a church that thinks condoms are evil does more damage but people in poor countries usually either have a culture that encourages huge families or they want lots of kids as a kind of old age security and family support.

Pieter Enis

January 11th, 2007, 10:40 AM

I thought that was mostly a Muslem thing.

I read it's happening both down in Africa and out East. Some country before India that I can't remember the name of :p
Muslem, not Muslim, as far as I know, but correct me if I'm wrong
Condoms rule!
*pulls one over his head and starts running around*
Woooooopwooopwoopwoopwoopwoop
-10 minutes later-
*gasping of air, unable to pull the condom off of his head*

FATAL

January 11th, 2007, 01:11 PM

Aliotroph?

January 11th, 2007, 04:29 PM

Which I said in that very paragraph. :p

FATAL

January 12th, 2007, 06:57 AM

Which I said in that very paragraph. :p
Which I said in the very first post you first quoted. :p

TheDruid

June 6th, 2007, 10:57 PM

What I don't understand is why god is such a hard concept to get. I think if you just open up and try to listen you will get the general idea.

I think the idea of god encourages people to be equal and get along. To not get equal with people, to not hurt people.

Stupid people like this lady ruin it for everyone. Like she says she follows the commandments but I am pretty sure not judging other people is a commandment. Hippocrates. Bleh

It seems a little 2d to think that all 10 dimensions bent into an infinite loop and 4 of them combined with intense heat exploded and created our universe. I mean the chances of life existing and earth being a habitual planet and the universe forming the way it did is 10 to the 256 power.

Also if you ever get into heavy physics you will see that the way the universe worked out and that the fact we exist is statistically impossible. The idea that there was at least a guiding force to existence isn't that unreasonable. I mean how many people or objects do you know that can bend all ten dimensions? Seriously.

Nomad

June 7th, 2007, 12:23 AM

However complex and unlikely the universe is, God is infinitely more complex and unlikely. I'll repeat this as necessary.

jetflock

June 7th, 2007, 12:23 AM

oh man i can't believe i missed this one! death to all religions!
What I don't understand is why god is such a hard concept to get. I think if you just open up and try to listen you will get the general idea.
hmm....i don't think our minds could ever really grasp the concept of "god". the best we can do is try to lead "moral" lives. meh, that just stood out when running around the thread.

KuriKai

June 7th, 2007, 01:01 AM

However complex and unlikely the universe is, God is infinitely more complex and unlikely. I'll repeat this as necessary.

Just like the "theories" of evolution. So why do you believe in that?

Aliotroph?

June 7th, 2007, 06:54 AM

I mean the chances of life existing and earth being a habitual planet and the universe forming the way it did is 10 to the 256 power.I'm so glad you finally managed to calculate the odds for us! Scientists have been fruitlessly trying that one for decades now!

Just like the "theories" of evolution. So why do you believe in that? Going to save myself the effort and just quote myself last time this happened: Evolution thread from Jan. 2006 -- big Alio post at the end (http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=29670&highlight=Evolution)

I rather like this too: People are probably wired to believe in gods according to these guys (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04evolution.t.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5088&en=a43cfb7b24423cc6&ex=1330664400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

rustyslacker

June 7th, 2007, 07:56 AM

It seems a little 2d to think that all 10 dimensions bent into an infinite loop and 4 of them combined with intense heat exploded and created our universe. I mean the chances of life existing and earth being a habitual planet and the universe forming the way it did is 10 to the 256 power.
Yes, our universe is a staggeringly improbable object. But staggeringly huge numbers of possible universes may have "broken" before our universe worked out and continued existing.
Just like the "theories" of evolution. So why do you believe in that?
Well, gravity is just a "theory". Do you believe in gravity? There's about the same amount of conflicting scientific evidence between gravity and evolution.

KuriKai

June 7th, 2007, 09:48 AM

Well, gravity is just a "theory". Do you believe in gravity? There's about the same amount of conflicting scientific evidence between gravity and evolution.

link to the "conflicting scientific evidence" please

rustyslacker

June 7th, 2007, 09:50 AM

Sorry, there is none. That was the joke.

KuriKai

June 7th, 2007, 10:17 AM

Sorry, there is none. That was the joke.

Why pollute a serious discussion with a joke and/or lie?

Pieter Enis

June 7th, 2007, 10:45 AM

It was no lie (for Rusty) and, as far as I know, this wasn't serious:

However complex and unlikely the universe is, God is infinitely more complex and unlikely. I'll repeat this as necessary.
Just like the "theories" of evolution. So why do you believe in that?

FATAL

June 7th, 2007, 10:57 AM

Why pollute a serious discussion with a joke and/or lie?
Haha, I can't see how any discussion debating whether god or Santa Claus exists could be serious.

Nomad

June 7th, 2007, 11:42 AM

link to the "conflicting scientific evidence" please

How does gravity work? The fact is, no one knows. There are hypotheses galore, but gravity is an enigma. It's not magnetic, it is not nuclear force. No one can explain why mass attracts.

Yet, surely you follow the "law" of Gravity, right? The evidence for evolution is a landslide, but since it can't be explained 100% right now, it must be false?

Furthermore, on the contrary, although there is zero evidence for a god, you believe there could be one?

What a wild world we live in. Logic must have no place in the minds of the faithful.

Jethro

June 7th, 2007, 03:04 PM

*cheers* Cheers mate, I've used that argument myself many a time.
(Doesn't apologize for spelling errors, he has a spell checker.)

Pieter Enis

June 7th, 2007, 04:41 PM

Quite closed-minded sig, by the way.

Jethro

June 7th, 2007, 04:51 PM

Pieter, you mean me?

FATAL

June 7th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Quite closed-minded sig, by the way.
If you mean this:
"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data." - Henry Morris.

Then I have to say that I disagree. That quote is something I would probably use when I wanted to put in a sarcastic remark of some sort.

jadeanderson

June 8th, 2007, 10:35 AM

i can see proof of gravity by dropping a stone.

give me comparable proof of some invisible superbeing and i'll consider god worthy of discussion.

the concept of god which western religions bandy about creates neither equality nor peaceful coexistence.

darwinian evolution is a theory as far as i ever heard, but i find nothing offensive about it. leaps of faith in any direction are something i just don't do.

Pieter Enis

June 8th, 2007, 05:09 PM

Side question: Wasn't the darwinian evolutionary theory proven incorrect?
Or have I gotten him mixed up with Freud?

*throws pie at FATAL*

TheDruid

July 10th, 2007, 01:46 PM

Don't get me wrong anyone. I am a total science nerd and understand and agree with most current day science to the best of my ability. The thing is that logic and faith can coexist in this world as I am one of many that make it work. I believe evolution is the most likely thing to happen. Science is the study of how everything around us works. The thing is a lot of science doesn't explain why it works. There are somethings they don't know why they work in science, they know they just do.

In the end science will never prove or disprove God. I just choose to have faith that there is a loving god because I see a magnificent world around me that is so wondrous and splendid and filled with so many amazing things that no matter what they are they will always be a gift to me. I have seen a close family member live many times when she should have died and every time I prayed. I have had my life work out in ways that random chance could never persist at and had prayers answered that by the physical world could only be flukes of chance.

I choose to believe that by the simple power of love and random acts of kindness I can change the world, and that if everyone joined in with me the world we lived in now would be so much better. Faith comes down to whether you hope or not.

rustyslacker

July 10th, 2007, 02:19 PM

TheDruid:

Why do you need to believe in Santa Claus to appreciate the wonder around us?
I choose to believe that by the simple power of love and random acts of kindness I can change the world, and that if everyone joined in with me the world we lived in now would be so much better. Faith comes down to whether you hope or not.
The powers of love and kindness hold far more positive potential than major organized religions. I agree that we can all make a change for the better by working to be more caring, kind people. But "faith" does not come down to hope. I have hope for my species and myself but I do not need Santa Claus to keep this hope.
I have seen a close family member live many times when she should have died and every time I prayed. I have had my life work out in ways that random chance could never persist at and had prayers answered that by the physical world could only be flukes of chance.
This is a statement of such startling arrogance. Why are your prayers answered, when millions die of starvation every day? Why are your prayers answered while the prayers of thirty-two innocent Virginia Tech students were not? Why are your prayers answered but amputees' prayers are not?

Jethro

July 10th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god.
~Epicurus

link to the "conflicting scientific evidence" please
I has some. Well, you can find evidence for alternate theories, that state gravity is a lie. link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#Alternative_theories)

Pieter Enis

July 12th, 2007, 10:34 AM

Epicurus kicks ass. Wasn't it him who taught the Greeks not to fear death?

TheDruid

July 12th, 2007, 11:15 PM

This is a statement of such startling arrogance. Why are your prayers answered, when millions die of starvation every day? Why are your prayers answered while the prayers of thirty-two innocent Virginia Tech students were not? Why are your prayers answered but amputees' prayers are not?

The thing is bad things happen to us all. My mom has brain cancer and we were told she was going to die three months later. After almost dieing from brain swelling and then again almost dieing from flesh eating bacteria she isn't perfect. She can't use the left side of her body anymore and she can't walk. Still she is here and struggling to regain her life. Not all prayers will be answered because its not God's will. If I pray for a new car it most likely won't happen. The idea is that when you pray for a close relationship with someone you both aren't just gonna wake up the next day and just have amazing feelings for each other. The idea behind it is that you get the opportunities to get closer.

I believe my prayers were answered because it is not my mothers time to leave this earth and one day she will indeed die like everyone else, it's just that the kindness and struggle she has been through must be told to others.

The powers of love and kindness hold far more positive potential than major organized religions. I agree that we can all make a change for the better by working to be more caring, kind people. But "faith" does not come down to hope. I have hope for my species and myself but I do not need Santa Claus to keep this hope.

The thing is that you can believe in god and not belong to an organized religion. Thats what my family and pretty much all the families I am around do too. And seriously, Santa Claus? People who believe in God don't believe there is a Santa Claus. I celebrate Christmas as the time Jesus was born. A man who to me must of been one of the nicest most kind hearted soul in the world from the things I have read that he had said. Now I do have a fake Christmas tree and do the whole presents deal but me and my family just give gifts from the heart. We don't expect gifts from each other and if we don't have any money we don't do it.

Religion and faith are not about sacrificing lambs like they did in the old days or gong to church every Sunday. People shouldn't be doing nice things just so that they can get into heaven. It's about treating your fellow humans as equals and bettering the world. Do something nice because you wish someone did it to you, not because you feel like you owe anything to anybody. Just doing things for other people makes me feel like I am trying to make a better world. And I don't think you can go wrong with that.

Pieter Enis

July 12th, 2007, 11:33 PM

TheDruid

July 13th, 2007, 09:09 AM

Alas, thou can.
Doing too much for one teaches them nothing and makes them dependant upon what it is you are 'helping' them with.
I put a lot of thought in 'helping'. It sometimes seems rude not to help someone out at times, but it's for their own betterment.
Same goes for throwing things in the trash can, etc.

I fully understand that. I have a friend who has been like sheltered her whole life and so we spent a long time trying to help her out and let her grow up. The thing is it didn't help at all. So now we just leave her to do it on her own in the hopes she learns how to take some kind of control with her life.

rustyslacker

July 13th, 2007, 09:14 AM

The thing is bad things happen to us all. My mom has brain cancer and we were told she was going to die three months later. After almost dieing from brain swelling and then again almost dieing from flesh eating bacteria she isn't perfect. She can't use the left side of her body anymore and she can't walk. Still she is here and struggling to regain her life. Not all prayers will be answered because its not God's will. If I pray for a new car it most likely won't happen. The idea is that when you pray for a close relationship with someone you both aren't just gonna wake up the next day and just have amazing feelings for each other. The idea behind it is that you get the opportunities to get closer.

I believe my prayers were answered because it is not my mothers time to leave this earth and one day she will indeed die like everyone else, it's just that the kindness and struggle she has been through must be told to others.

Hm. And the things you attribute to "God" can't just as easily be attributed to earthly things? Or is it "His" "will" to make you think it could be some non-supernatural cause?
And seriously, Santa Claus? People who believe in God don't believe there is a Santa Claus.
That is not the point. The point is that Santa Claus and "God" are more or less synonymous: Beings who live in a far-away place (North Pole/Heaven) who watch everything you do and reward or punish you accordingly. Why believe in one and not the other? Or, why disbelieve one, but not the other?

TheDruid

July 13th, 2007, 05:31 PM

That is not the point. The point is that Santa Claus and "God" are more or less synonymous: Beings who live in a far-away place (North Pole/Heaven) who watch everything you do and reward or punish you accordingly. Why believe in one and not the other? Or, why disbelieve one, but not the other?

I believe that man was created in gods image and man was not created in Santa's haha. Simple enough I think life is a gift and that there is a maker to everything. It seems like such a strange concept for some but not for others. Everything we do effects the universe around us. Who is to say that man is the greatest driving force in the universe? I honestly don't think we are and I think that there is often more than chance in some equations in life.

Science cannot prove that a god does or does not exist. They can just assume based on the laws of science that our world and existence happen within the bounds of modern scientific theories. And that these scientific theories are results of observations of natural causes. The thing is that assuming god doesn't exist based on the world of science is no more correct or incorrect than assuming that there is a god in the world of religion. Science supports its theories upon factual data and builds upon that data, where as religion does not. Now if you take a soft science like psychology you will notice that there is no black or whites. I think the existence in god is also not a black and white. And that it is not measured in the scientific realm but rather the metaphysical/psychological realm.

What I am trying to say with the above statement is that god cannot be proven or disproved and it cannot be put up against science. The idea of science is logical and the idea of a god is not logical when put up against the two because religion does not share the same type of data. It is like trying to compare poetry and math. Math that is logical, and poetry that can be free styled and mixed up however.

Nomad

July 13th, 2007, 05:35 PM

Science may not be able to prove or unprove the existence of an extrauniversal being that created everything, but It's not difficult at all to disprove the Abrahamic, Hindu, or other man-made gods.

Aliotroph?

July 13th, 2007, 07:58 PM

Praying is a weird idea. If God is all powerful and all knowing there'd be no point in praying because God, being all powerful and timeless would know exactly what he wants to happen. He'd even know your mind enough to know what you were going to choose, regardless of whether he lets you actually make the choice. That's a rather wonderful contradiction considering that Christianity seems to hinge on God not knowing what you're thinking.

And how exactly is it that you can't believe in God without being in an organized religion? I know lots of peple who believe in God but aren't Christians or Jews or Muslims, or part of any other defined group with a specific set of beliefs.

EDIT: Ack! you guys were typing as I was typing! Nobody ever said man was the greatest driving force in the universe. Well, lots of people think it but if it could be man it could easily be some alien civilization somewhere. It can't be man anyway. Nature is bigger. Way bigger. So... physics?

blood imp

July 16th, 2007, 12:09 PM

Giftmacher

July 16th, 2007, 07:18 PM

blood imp

July 17th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Yeah, he gives us presents!:p

Giftmacher

July 18th, 2007, 02:54 AM

Yeah, he gives us presents!:p

Presents are way better than smiting! *bday*

This whole Christianity thing reminds me of the fact that my school is going to be in a church next year. I really hope this doesn't mean I won't be able to wear my Metallica shirt to school anymore. :P

blood imp

July 18th, 2007, 08:38 AM

WHAT?! School... in... a... CHURCH?! I feel so sorry for you. Maybe it won't be so bad...

+Acyclitor+

July 18th, 2007, 01:39 PM

This whole Christianity thing reminds me of the fact that my school is going to be in a church next year. I really hope this doesn't mean I won't be able to wear my Metallica shirt to school anymore. :Pwhat the fuck? that isn't right. must be a private school?

anyway... am I to understand you Atheist celebrate Christmas? do I even need to bring up the hypocrisy of that?

Nomad

July 18th, 2007, 02:42 PM

There's nothing wrong with an atheist celebrating "Christmas", with the holiday in name only and with the focus mostly on the family rather than the "birth of Christ". We can give it a different name, if that makes you feel better. It's not like the Christians started the holiday anyway, which I'm sure you are aware of. :P

+Acyclitor+

July 18th, 2007, 03:56 PM

yeah but the solstice festivals that it was created on were still of a religious nature.

with the holiday in name only and with the focus mostly on the family rather than the "birth of Christ"ah, alright I can understand that.

blood imp

July 18th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Yup. We can always call it "Day of Family, Food, and Gifts", since that's what I mainly celebrate, not necessarly the birth of Jesus.

+Acyclitor+

July 18th, 2007, 07:28 PM

lets just call it "Commercialization Day with Family Bonding Time"

Nomad

July 18th, 2007, 08:05 PM

It is the Holy Day of the Gift Koala.

Giftmacher

July 18th, 2007, 08:12 PM

Eh... yes, I do celebrate Christmas, but Jesus doesn't even cross my mind when I'm celebrating it. I just like the fact that I can see family members that live two and a half hours away from me, and show off my l337 guitar hero skills. *bday*

what the fuck? that isn't right. must be a private school?

It's basically a school for homeschoolers. People who homeschool can go there a certain number of days a week (as many or as little as they want) and take classes. Unfortunatley, we were renting a building that belonged to the YMCA. Their building (which was right next to ours) is being demolished or something like that, so they're moving into the space we were renting from them. So the only space we could find was a hardly sufficient little closet sized space at a church.

There's hardly enough rooms for all the classes, and there's pretty much no outdoor area save for some concrete sidewalk-like pathways.

I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing posters that say "I love Jesus, yes I do, I love Jesus. How about you?" at my school.

*chuck*