Legacy 2 needs YOU:

[Rellik_jmd]

Originally posted by smite-meister, in the Smite, I love you like a woman, mushroom mushroom (http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=30924&page=2) thread.
Help wanted!
Even if you know next to no C/C++, you can be useful! Help us out by fixing a small part of Legacy. Examples:

- menu (testing, graphics alignment, add new options, write a new widget system or a font renderer :))
- automap (alignment, colors, new features such as locked doors colored according to their key (Hexen has a dozen different keys...))
- console commands and vars (add/update help texts, make sure they all work as they should)
- finales (make sure they work as they should)
- valgrind debugging is always useful (requires Linux and some technical know-how)
- documentation (write, proofread, make suggestions for improvement (requires the ability to read and write))

Ask me for further info.

P.S.
Iori, stop talking about our relationship in public! Somebody might notice!

Alright you heard him, lets get on some of this stuff!

*cracks whip, chin starts bleeding*

[Ebola]

I know nothing about that stuff. But I made a pretty wad you can use for playtesting it. Yay me :O

[Planky]

Don't forget, we have a wiki that will need updating too

[g6672D]

Ssssh Planky... :D

I'm happy to do documentation. Paticularly if it's lists of items (stuff like FS function docs and console commands). Other than that, maybe ideas for automapping and menus.

[Doom_Dude]

Is this something the team wants news'd? Nobody said anything so....

*wanders off into the gloom*

[DooMAD]

I might as well help out with the documentation, as I'll probably be the one who copies it all to the wiki anyway, heh.

[rustyslacker]

I can proofread everybody's documentation, make sure everything works, is written clearly, etc.

[jetflock]

graphics. i can make graphics if needed. i could even not be all half-assed about them if i want.

[smite-meister]

Thanks for volunteering so readily. I can see you have not been in the army ;)
I just sent some of you instructions via PM, but maybe it's easier to just put them here:

First, consider learning to use CVS, it's easy using the right client program.
Here's a good Windows CVS client: http://www.tortoisecvs.org/
Use it to checkout the doomlegacy_c++ module. Here you can find some instructions on how our CVS repo works:
http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=2479

After the checkout, you can find a local copy of the current docs in the docs/ directory.
You can refresh them every now and then by using the "update" cvs action, it will preserve the changes you may have made.

Take a look at our current docs and see what you would like to improve or add. Some ideas:
- main manual, legacy.html really sucks right now
- editing manual, editing.html sucks a bit less but...
- console reference, console.html is completely outdated
- currently we have no "history of Doom Legacy", which would be pretty cool, you know, the "family tree" of the code,
list of contributors etc.

I think it would be a good idea to first fix the actual docs and when the release time comes nearer, copy relevant parts to the wiki.

Graphics and other media will be useful too. You can take a look at the resources/ directory, which contains much of the stuff that goes inside legacy.wad, the main data file.
As you can see, all graphics are in PNG format now (JPEG is on its way too, but PNG is pretty good for most stuff).
IMO new graphics should be drawn in truecolor and possibly in hi-res too. Of course you should check that they do not look too horrible
quantized to the Doom palette and res, 'cos that is what people who use software renderer will see:)

What would be cool is a new bitmap font for the menu in Doom mode, like the one in Heretic and Hexen, instead of menu patches.
Designing a good-looking new font is a big effort though, especially if you want to avoid copyright infringements...

[MR_ROCKET]

For testing new graphics, the legacy.wad which comes with the most current alpha build can be used as a place holder for testing new graphics. you can view/edit it via Xwe.
To save any hassle, test your new graphics in the wad first before uploading anything. heh

[Planky]

Some updated fs docs can be found here: http://members.home.nl/meuwissenth/legacy.doc

Also, the Wiki is more up to date than any doco around, so I suggest buildings the doc's with that as a base.

[Jaquboss]

I would use tga or jpg instead, png is nice, but defienetly not so fast
also it might be easier if you ask Doomsday addon authors for something
( for eg. there is cool doom font )

[Hurdler]

JPG is not a good idea for game textures, too much artifacts. There are better format for that. PNG is not so bad. I dont know about the speed but the time to load a map with its textures is clearly not an issue right now, even if it would have been 10x slower.

[smite-meister]

JPG is not a good idea for game textures, too much artifacts.
Depends on the texture and resolution. For example, a sky texture (or anything "natural-looking") might be best to store as a JPEG. Even with a high quality factor it might be smaller than a corresponding PNG.
TGA, on the other hand, is just like PNG, only it has worse compression and less features.
Decompressing TGA images might be slightly faster than decompressing PNG images, but as Hurdler said, currently texture loading time is not an issue.

We will have very limited TGA support, but that's just because MD3 model skins use it.

[Jaquboss]

sweet hopefully ID will allow to use Q3 Doom model :P
I just have this feeling from Doomsday ports where it took ages to load all skins
also will there be support for pk3/zip? wad editing is pain

[Rellik_jmd]

Hopefully things on this end will quiet down and I can spend an afternoon just working on docs.

DOOM_DUDE: Heh, all the people that would be interested in kicking in some work are pretty much already here. :-p

[smite-meister]

Hey, another thing. I was thinking of adding a few new teamgame features, sort of inspired by UT.
For these we could use graphics for team symbols (to be shown on the HUD, maybe also in maps. Skulltag has already something like this implemented, I think.

[Rellik_jmd]

Red, blue, yellow, green? Instead of each team having a symbol maybe they could all be a stylized "L2" symbol...

[Danimetal]

For these symbols... It would be nice to have a set of "Default" ones in legacy.dat and then allow people to have their own icons in separate wad files.

Also... What can I do to help?. I am a little very busy lately with a lot of work stuff and things but still I am a Legacy guy waiting to come back and if I can do some small task other than map like crazy I think I could try. Oh, my knoledge of C or C++ is < 0.

Edit: I missed the "edit" button!!!... Serious, I think I could go with some editing stuff, like the "editing" part of the manual.

[MR_ROCKET]

Even though the mod was never really completed and some maps it contained- including mine heh, there might be some usable teamplay type graphic resources in that DT2004 mod (http://wadaholic.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dtour11.zip), or could be updated from that point.
I'm sure we could fix something up.
And yeah, something like UT's hud might be nice, with the red or blue simi-transparency backgrounds to it.

[smite-meister]

Serious, I think I could go with some editing stuff, like the "editing" part of the manual.
Sure, go ahead. You can either checkout the files from the CVS or browse them through WWW:
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.net/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/
Here's the editing manual, with lots of TO DOs.
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/editing.html

[MR_ROCKET]

Well I'v started on some of the hud overlay icon graphics, and the left and right console boarders also but for some reason the console boarders will crash the game in software mode, though they work fine in opengl.

I'm thinking they just kept the raw png info because I replaced them instead of deleting and loading from scratch heh.
The icons are looking kinda spiffy though ;) in both software and opengl.
It's just tough trying to get any sorta of hi-detail out of a 16x16 image scale. which just happens to be the same size of :p rofl.

Back to the drawing board..

[Danimetal]

Well I'v started on some of the hud overlay icon graphics, and the left and right console boarders also but for some reason the console boarders will crash the game in software mode, though they work fine in opengl.
Could it be that they are out of the "drawing screen"?. Legacy would crash for me in software if any part of any HUD picture was out of the screen.

Sure, go ahead. You can either checkout the files from the CVS or browse them through WWW:
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.ne..._c%2B%2B/docs/
Here's the editing manual, with lots of TO DOs.
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.ne...s/editing.html

Okay... I´ll downgrab the editing manual and see if there´s anything I can add or clarify... I could also do some tutorials on the wiki :).

[MR_ROCKET]

Actually, no heh the images are the exact same size. Hud icons are no problem, the console left and right side borders were doing this in software. And it's one of 2 things maybe both, transparency or raw data. the old images didn't have transparency.
I'll either fix them or not change them ;)

About the icons though, even though I'v fixed up some new stuff, the originals might look as good just by brighting them up some, though the alignment of the ammo needs to be pushed over to the right a bit, like about a 40 pixel push to the right for both the ammo # and icon. Though the ammo # alignment must be coded in somewhere, so I'll have to ask smite if he could do that if its no problem.

[smite-meister]

The icons are looking kinda spiffy though ;) in both software and opengl.
It's just tough trying to get any sorta of hi-detail out of a 16x16 image scale. which just happens to be the same size of :p rofl.

How about 32x32?
You can do the icons in hi-res, you'll just have to use the NTEXTURE texture definition lump to set the scaling.

[MR_ROCKET]

Blah ! NTEXTURE !@ thats right, I'll work on it tonight rofl.
/me does the V8 impression.

EDIT : heh
Is there some better info somewhere about the NTEXTURE lump so I can get the scaling just right?
I have this : http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/JointTextureSpec.txt
But I need a better example of how to scale etc.

Texture SBOARMOR { file SBOARMOR.png; scale 0.5; }


With Exl's help though, I still cant seem to get it to work.

[smite-meister]

Is there some better info somewhere about the NTEXTURE lump so I can get the scaling just right?
I have this : http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/JointTextureSpec.txt

Nope, that's it for now. Here's how you do it.
1) Make a lump named NTEXTURE that contains this text:

texture SBOARMOR
{
data SBOARMOR;
worldsize 16 16;
}

2) Put the PNG file into the lump SBOARMOR, which should not be inside any namespace (this might change in the future, the standard is far from finished).

Now whatever the size of SBOARMOR.png, it will always be scaled to a "worldsize" of 16x16 units. In the case of HUD graphics the dimensions of the screen are 320x200 "world units".

Edit: Oops, wrong keyword...

[MR_ROCKET]

You know I actually had something like that before but with 16x16 heh
Anyways, It's still being a booger. I pm'd ya about..

EDIT: Yeah keyword fixed it, I have my scaling now, but now theres another booger heh.
PM.

[Danimetal]

Okay... I´ve gone through the editing document here http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/editing.html
and found not so many TODOs... Unfortunately I´m not sure I can help with "Custom weapons" TODOs and such so I could stick with tutorials for the Wiki. I wish I could do something more active, really.

[smite-meister]

Okay... I´ve gone through the editing document
and found not so many TODOs...
How about these:
- Explain linedef types 303 and 305 (I have no idea what they do)
- Explain ANIMDEFS and ANIMATED lumps (our ANIMDEFS is currently the same as the Hexen one)

[Danimetal]

Okay... I could start with the ANIMATED lump and get to ANIMDEFS (little experience with Hexen editing but I can learn).

Still, last time I checked (I´ve been away a couple of months) the ANIMATED lump needed a program like swantbls.exe to generate the lump. Does it still work like that?. If it´s that way I could work out a little "tutorial" for it and point you at it in a PM.

Then the 303 and 305... I guess it´s all about downloading the latest alpha and testing them again and again until something happens :).

I´ll start with the ANIMATED and ANIMDEFS once I know if the swantbls.exe thing is right with you.

[Ajapted]

Woah, NTEXTURE has actually been implemented? That's quite a surprise, but a nice one :). How closely do you follow the spec?

[smite-meister]

Woah, NTEXTURE has actually been implemented? That's quite a surprise, but a nice one :). How closely do you follow the spec?
It's just skeleton support for now, no colormapping or composing textures from patches.
The most important things, scaling and offsets, work. See for yourself:
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.net/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/grammars/
If you want, you can use the code as a basis for a reference implementation too.
It still needs some error recovery abilities.

[MR_ROCKET]

The NTEXTURE png scaling works grate, well for what I'v sorta been using it for right now.
As is, in the build I'm using, it will only do the scaling in software render though, which is good enough to work with. I'd imagine when it gets fixed up for opengl its gonna look shweet.


Some 3d line type info:
303 and 305 both have to do with lighting, works like a 3dfloor. whats cool about them is that the light can cast on the floor and not the ceiling depending what you want to do with them. 305 on the other hand depending on it's floor height has the ability to only cast light on thing types/player/actor in the given target sector without lighting the target ceiling and floor, although that can be done also.
303 has no floor height control, 305 does, thats the difference.

Now whats confusing is that there is some mis-prints about type 304, which really has to do with a 3dwater type, not lighting.
In both the 1.42 docs and in DoomBuilder it says its a lighting type, but if you create it, its water, and again not lighting.

I noticed on the legacy2 editing doc's page that type 306 (total transparent 3dfloor) wasn't in the list.
Is this type implemented also?, and if so then something should be said about it in the editing docs heh.

Sorry dani for giving you more to do :\ but at least this should help out some.

[DaniJ]

Woah, NTEXTURE has actually been implemented? That's quite a surprise, but a nice one . How closely do you follow the spec?I actually stumbled across this myself a few days ago and was wondering if anyone else had implemented it yet as it sounded pretty good.

I plan to look into this with Doomsday more fully once 1.9.0 is released.

[Danimetal]

Sorry dani for giving you more to do :\ but at least this should help out some.
Not a problem for me... I want to start with the ANIMATED stuff first, wich could take a couple of days once I get to it (not in my comp now)... I have this doubts about trying to get technical with it or just trying to document it and to help people use the ANIMATED lump features.

I´ll start with ANIMDEFS once the ANIMATED stuff is done... I´ve found some information about it and so far it seems easy enough. Linedef stuff (that deals a bit more with experimentation) will have to wait.

Now I have a question for anyone who´s up to date with Legacy (last time I checked there was no graphics scalation and stuff): I think that the ANIMATED lump is already there (it was on 1.42) but, has the latest beta adopted ANIMDEFS?. Does it work on Hexen mode only or also in Doom and Heretic?.

I would like to know such things to create more accurate content.

[smite-meister]

Now I have a question for anyone who´s up to date with Legacy (last time I checked there was no graphics scalation and stuff): I think that the ANIMATED lump is already there (it was on 1.42) but, has the latest beta adopted ANIMDEFS?. Does it work on Hexen mode only or also in Doom and Heretic?..
ANIMATED has been there since Legacy got Boom support, it's a binary lump which must be created using some tool program.
ANIMDEFS originates from Hexen, it's a text lump which can be created using a normal text editor.
They can both be used in all the modes.
(Generally speaking, if there isn't a very good reason to limit a feature to only some of the modes, you can use it in every mode.)

[Danimetal]

Okay... I guessed so. I´ll start to work on them soon and will link to the results here. When done I´ll start working with these linedefs and then I´ll volunteer to do a Legacy v2.0 example map if anyone else hasn´t done it yet :).

[MR_ROCKET]

The day before my last post I made this little map with 12 control sectors in it for obvious reasons. :D Dani you can use it if you want and build off of it, unless you have other plans and would rather keep it separate. - maybe it could be the beginning of the next rainbow star :P

Even though I didn't put any colormap or fog sheet in it, all the 3d types are there and things like that can be done at a later time.
Runs grate in 1.4x of course and you have to gr_transwall 1, to see the translucent types.

Anyways it should make for a good little test map for legacy2 when the time comes.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/mr3dwad.zip

Note*
In the map, from left to right the type #'s are in order starting from 280 to 306. - I planned on making 12 flat textures with the type# on each flat, just havnt got around to it yet.
Each control sector has a .5 light blink so you can tell how it effects the targets also.
Its a very simple map and there is no extra lumps added, it's a straight to the point test map.
Test it in 1.4x as well.
It wont run in the current state of the alpha version but should come in handy later when all 12 types have been added.
- or what ever needs to be done before they start showing up. ;)

[Danimetal]

Cool... I was thinking of some linear stuff like "Rainbowstar" in wich you can see the Legacy features (specially the new ones), sort of "Behold what you can do with Legacy including a Legacy logo made with 3d floors!!!".

Apart from that, I need to get up to date man. All this line types talking is making me crazy!.

[MR_ROCKET]

ok heh, Just wanted to help get things rolling for our community additions.
I'll sorta be laying low and working on finishing my ndcp2 map and soon have more time to test, add and look over the docs and things and hopefully after the next build, we'l be able to do more. :)
Anyways I will now leave you with room to test, document, and retest ACS functionalities ;)

Btw, been meaning to tell Smite, I love the blood ! ;)

[smite-meister]

It wont run in the current state of the alpha version but should come in handy later when all 12 types have been added.
- or what ever needs to be done before they start showing up. ;)[/I]
I've said this before, but the software renderer is a major PIA.
It works now, and so does texture scaling.

[MR_ROCKET]

You are more than awesome Simte!
Your like unlimited awesomeness or something ;)

Oh btw, I'v sent you a few pm's about NTEXTURE overlay and all I'v been able to do with it for now.
But it's not bad and I actually have my grey simi-transparency.

And so others know, that quote has to do with a control sector based test map I fixed up for some quick legacy2 testing.

[Osiris's_Legacy]

I wouldn't mind helping with scripting or something like that to help with the new Rainbowstar map. I just need to learn all the new FS commands.

[MR_ROCKET]

You know something that might actually look really cool as a hud overlay?
This voxel stuff that DooMAD's been messing with.
http://www.teamhellspawn.com/voxels.htm

DooMAD, Ghostpilot, you guys mind if I see what some of these look like on a transparent background in legacy2?


I'v been working on that map some also, I donno I guess it could be a good addition to a feature wad if others fallow through.
Right now I have all the 3d sectors displayed with numbered flats below them an stuff.. corresponding with the line type shown.


Hey Smite, when all's said and done, will Doom based 3dmap's like this be able to run in Hexen? -I mean will Hexen understand these line types granted all the other resources have already been changed to Hexen?
Anyways, I started on some team play icons.

[smite-meister]

Hey Smite, when all's said and done, will Doom based 3dmap's like this be able to run in Hexen? -I mean will Hexen understand these line types granted all the other resources have already been changed to Hexen?
Well, yes. I've added one new linetype to Hexen, using which you can have 3d floors, FS triggers and Legacy-specific renderer effects like fog sheets and OpenGL-friendly colormaps in Hexen-format maps.

[Danimetal]

Sorry it took a while but finally I´m on coffee and cigarretes trying to wrap my mind around a comprehensive ANIMATED and ANIMDEFS text file that will be able to explain and help people to use those features with a couple of example maps and stuff.

Also, the idea of voxels for HUD overlay showing what weapon you´re using is somewhat an instant boner.

Edit: Damn!!. I´m not sure if I will be able to do this... Legacy keeps on shutting off when I try to load the wads with the custom textures I´m experimenting to write the text files. I´ve experienced this problem with Legacy alphas before: it loads the Doom logo screen and when you hit "New game" it just gets out.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah I'v kinda been running into the same thing myself dani.
I'm hoping when someone compiles us an updated version, we'll be able to do some more things.

About a voxel/png scaled version implant.
We'll have to see what DooMAD says about it. thing is the health and frag icons kinda need to be a universal image to look right in Heretic and Hexen also.
I was leaning more towards the health and ammo and items though. For example, I'm not carrying that many plasma guns, I'm carrying that much ammo for it though ;)

[Rellik_jmd]

Those voxel models do look really nice, and they would 'fit' in Doom too, whereas actual models will look awesome but never 'feel' appropriate.

[Aliotroph?]

Would take years to make good voxel models for a spider mastermind. :p

[MR_ROCKET]

Heh, I bet, would definitely take a long time. -gets faint image of skeleton sitting in chair.

Yeah Rellik, they have to keep a natural look to them or they would be distracting me thinks. The voxel stuff would be cool.
NTEXTURE's pretty cool, you can make a huge .png image if wanted, ntexture will scale it to whatever you want, smaller in this case without losing most of its image quality.
say goodbye to pixel limitation.
This means, we'll have hi-res textures and sprites easy in a wad. It's just a matter of someone making all the hi-res textures and sprites.
I know theres already re-make texture libraries out there, but sprites on the other hand..

[Aliotroph?]

Meh. I don't care if the sprites are low-res. I'm used to them. Will be great for TCs though. :D

[DooMAD]

You know something that might actually look really cool as a hud overlay?
This voxel stuff that DooMAD's been messing with.
http://www.teamhellspawn.com/voxels.htm

DooMAD, Ghostpilot, you guys mind if I see what some of these look like on a transparent background in legacy2?
So you just want to use a screenshot of the voxel as a HUD image? Sure, sounds good to me. I'm glad that someone has found a use for them.

Would take years to make good voxel models for a spider mastermind. :p
I couldn't attempt it even if I wanted to, heh. The program I'm using to make them would grind to a halt. It struggles to cope with anything larger than the pickup items.

[MR_ROCKET]

Awesome thanks and yeah pretty much, but only one angle of some of them, the ammo mainly.
Who all made them besides you and Ghost? -so I'll know who all to credit when I get around to sending it in.
There will be some different versions, so we'll have some coin flipping to do heh.

[Aliotroph?]

So you just want to use a screenshot of the voxel as a HUD image? Sure, sounds good to me. I'm glad that someone has found a use for them.


I couldn't attempt it even if I wanted to, heh. The program I'm using to make them would grind to a halt. It struggles to cope with anything larger than the pickup items.

Yeah, I played with that program once. It was slow as molasses. Modelling stuff like monsters one voxel at a time would be painfully tedious with any program though.

[DooMAD]

Awesome thanks and yeah pretty much, but only one angle of some of them, the ammo mainly.
Who all made them besides you and Ghost? -so I'll know who all to credit when I get around to sending it in.
There will be some different versions, so we'll have some coin flipping to do heh.
This thread (http://teamhellspawn.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=173) gives a list of the things various people have been working on. I think Ghostpilot and I both ended up doing a clip and shells, but he probably did his ones first.

What else do you need besides ammo? The skull keys could be a problem due to their awkward shape. The red one has taken me ages so far and it's only 60% done, although I guess that might be enough if you don't see it from the back, heh.

[MR_ROCKET]

Well I wont be changing the keys, pretty much all thats being changed are the hud icon images you'd see in the legacy.wad - cvs doomlegacy_c++/resources.
I haven't fixed them up yet but from here it looks like you and Ghost will be getting the credit. ;)

[DooMAD]

Ah, so we still need armour, frags and a rocket pickup to be made. Unless you can use the in flight rocket projectile, that is. I'll start work on the armour.

[MR_ROCKET]

I have some of that made already, but yeah they may look better with the 3d view of voxel. The rocket may not have to be voxel'd, though the projectile version of it should still work. The armor and frags need to be a universal image to look right in Heretic and Hexen also. ;) for example this is what I have for the frags icon (http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/temp2/frags2.png)
Right now I have the armor as the green armor in Doom but looking slightly different.
-the health also, though the voxel stimppack may work as a universal.
All the ammo can be used, these wont show up in anything but Doom.
I'll show you what I have fixed up soon. - will be a small package of variations.

[MR_ROCKET]

Some things have been said, some things have been made, bump, etc..
Smite check your pm's ;)

[MR_ROCKET]

Alright you heard him, lets get on some of this stuff!

*cracks whip, chin starts bleeding*

You should put some ointment on that, keep it from oozing..*wacky*
Whatta we need to do? Docs and fonts an stuff?

[Danimetal]

I want to keep on working on my little part so badly but Legacy won´t load any custom maps... Any help?.

[MR_ROCKET]

Only test in software mode for now and run the wad externally with a batch file or shortcut:
Legacy.exe -iwad [iwad name.wad] -file [pwad name.wad] [pwad name.wad]

If it's for Hexen you may need to change your editing configuration.

[Danimetal]

I swear that it doesn´t work that way, in fact, I was testing software mode... Anyway, it loads Doom but just exits the program when I try to start a game.

[MR_ROCKET]

Is it running doom or doom2 without pwads?

I'v been making and testing stuff in doom2 format for the past few weeks just using the doomlegacy editing configuration.
Of course I ran glbsp and glvis on my iwads though that shouldn't matter for software mode.
You could try that anyway.

You are using the latest L2 alpha build though right?

[jetflock]

Holy shit, someone has already been making voxels for doom?!?!?!?! Somebody point me in that direction!

[MR_ROCKET]

I figure you must have been looking at page 3 in order to ask jetflock, the link to teamhellspawn is on that page also.


Edit:
Oh ok, rofl, cool..:)
Edit2: Naw I can't see that happening any time soon.
But alot of the ammo voxel images were usable in the new hud overlay.
If the new hud gets used in legacy2 or not, thats yet to be decided without feedback from the developers though.

[jetflock]

oh, yes, i know i saw it. it was more of an "oh wow" post.
EDIT: I must say, I will marry legacy 2.0 if it supports voxels.

[Danimetal]

Argh... This is making me crazy: it doesn´t load in software mode anymore but openGL works... I´ll try and do my things with the GLRenderer.

[g6672D]

I already sacrificed my soul on the Altar of Legacy. But if I had two, when Legacy 2.0 comes out, I'll do that one too. (Disclaimer: I'm atheist.)

[MR_ROCKET]

heh
Well this is what I have fixed up in my batch file if it's any help dani.
I haven't been using doom builder to auto run the node build, though I guess I could.
just been doing this externally after saving the map.

@echo off
glbsp.exe pwadname.wad
glvis.exe pwadname.wad
legacy.exe -file pwadname.wad

For gl just put the -opengl parameter after legacy.exe
My maps in doom2 format so I don't need to pass the -iwad because legacy will use it as default, but for other iwads you need the -iwad iwadname.wad

But first, before you do any of this.
backup yee iwads then run glbsp and glvis on them also.

[Danimetal]

Your batch file rocks :), I didn´t think of it to solve the whole bsp and vis mambo-jumbo for me!.

I think I could have the first half ready very soon, I´m just a few checks about limits and stuff and a tutorial away to have the whole "ANIMATED" thing covered.

Edit: Finished the "ANIMATED" part... I uploaded the file here:

http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/LEGACYANIMATED.zip

Smite, is it something like what you wanted?. Do I have to do something with it?. If not I will be moving to the ANIMDEFS part.

2ndEdit: Btw, I just noticed while doing this that the GL renderer doesn´t like 256x256 flats but will display smaller ones... Also, I´m trying to gather information on ANIMDEFS but I´d like to know if it will work only in Hexen mode but also in Doom and Heretic as well. In case it works, is it implemented?. I did a small test and got no results.

[MR_ROCKET]

I managed to get a 256x256 flat working in both software and opengl.
Used a 256x256 24bit raw PNG texture image. Placed it between H_START and H_END markers then added it's info to the NTEXTURE lump, however not scaled, I have the scale set to 256x256 the same as the texture size because the FLAT didn't like being scaled. "yet"

Next is 512x512, after that I'm moving to Carmack's Megatexture ;)

Btw, currently opengl doesn't seem to be using NTEXTURE "scaling" so work with software with textures for now.
However NTEXTURE still utilizes the PNG image and the "unscaled" image will still show up in opengl.

[g6672D]

Oh mies! Teh voxels are teh pwnz! I'm so happy... *party*

[MR_ROCKET]

Thats it! I want voxel models implemented into Legacy2 *grin*
What would be neat is if the voxel images could have a smooth rotation animation. ;)
Though requiring something like 20 frames per icon -which might be possible?, but I doubt would ever get made heh.
But things like pick-up highlight animation might be cool for the hud icons.

[Danimetal]

I managed to get a 256x256 flat working in both software and opengl.
Used a 256x256 24bit raw PNG texture image. Placed it between H_START and H_END markers then added it's info to the NTEXTURE lump, however not scaled, I have the scale set to 256x256 the same as the texture size because the FLAT didn't like being scaled. "yet"

Next is 512x512, after that I'm moving to Carmack's Megatexture ;)

Btw, currently opengl doesn't seem to be using NTEXTURE "scaling" so work with software with textures for now.
However NTEXTURE still utilizes the PNG image and the "unscaled" image will still show up in opengl.
Like... H_What?... I seriously need to get up to date if I want to help!. Rocket, could you please mail me about what´s this whole NTEXTURE and H_START?. I guess it´s all Hi-Res but I´ve been out of touch for a while so I´m not sure.

What I meant, a regular 256x256 bmp flat just didn´t show and shown the sky texture through. A 128x128 worked fine. I have the wad here, in case you want to take a look at it.

[MR_ROCKET]

Here ya go, http://glbsp.sourceforge.net/JointTextureSpec.txt
There's some fallow-ups on page 2 about NTEXTURE.

Wall texture example:
Create a new map, save and exit. -wow at this rate I'll be making mega wads everyday !, rofl eh nvm..
Now load the map in Xwe and create a new lump and call it NTEXTURE
add this to it:

texture TEXTURE1
{
data TEXTURE1;
worldsize 128 128;
}
Save it..
Now load a PNG "raw data" image and in this case call it TEXTURE1
That's it, if the texture is, say' a 512x512 Image, then in this case NTEXTURE will scale it to 128x128 yet keeping the image quality.
Now in map editing, make a 128x128 line somewhere on the wall and change the default wall texture name to TEXTURE1.
bsp/save/and run the map.
AFAIK, a Flat texture is the same setup, but the FLAT gets placed between H_START and H_END markers which you would have to create also.

Of course all this is custom and unpatched, though you could add patch textures in also. that way you'll be able to use the lower quality textures as placeholders visually in map editing.

Anyways, yeah I know what you mean, thats actually some of the first things I was testing out also.
Opengl works but I don't think all the extras have been added yet in the current build.
I think Smite just wanted to finish everything software for the most part first, before Pate adds those things to opengl.
so I think even bmp's "custom flats" may not be working right or like they should until later in opengl.
Until then alot of things can still be tested and doc'd using software mode.

Sorry no ANIMDEF info stuff, and not sure if they work the same as the info you might find at the zdoom wiki about them.
"yet" heh.

[Danimetal]

Thanks for the info in the Hi-Res stuff Rocket. I´ll be testing it soon for my own amusement. As for ANIMDEF, don´t worry, I´ll be checking the Hexen editing resources, ZDoom wiki and so on until I get it working so I can write about it. In case I don´t get it to work I´ll try and contact Smite about it.

[MR_ROCKET]

Hey no problem man, I figured it would have been better to post that stuff on here so others will know and possibly help them some too. I jsut hope most of my info was accurate lol, I know it's limited because it looks like the texturespecs can do a lot more than that heh. I'll have a look at the ANIMDEF stuff later too, but arg..*whatever*

[Danimetal]

I took a look to any document about ANIMDEFS I could find and they all agree on it being pretty easy to use. The only one who says something different is "ANIMDEFS is ZDoom´s response to Boom´s ANIMATED"... Well, I´d say that ZDoom´s ANIMDEFS could be an extension of Hexen´s original ANIMDEFS but I´m not sure they added anything.

Anyway, I couldn´t make it work no matter how I tried. The ANIMDEFS lump worked for the original Hexen as I can see the textures moving but I can´t replicate the effect in Doom. Maybe it only works in Hexen but it wouldn´t be of much use then...

I´ll try and do some experiments in the meantime but if I can´t get anything to work I´ll write some text about how ANIMDEFS basically seems to work (according to the original Hexen wad file) and will try to figure out what those 2 linedefs do.

[Danimetal]

Double posting massacre!!!.

I feel like adding that ZDoom seems to have added something to the original Hexen´s ANIMDEFS lump (something about sounds... I don´t think it´s part of the SND lumps seen in Hexen) but, anyway, I just can´t get it to work in Doom or Hexen (I can´t even add new textures to Hexen with XWE... It seems that the system is a bit different) so I don´t know what to think... If someone that´s not suffering from problems with Legacy just shutting up wants to try ANIMDEFS out, please, let me know.

Now about shutting up problems: I noticed that Legacy won´t load any wad with something it doesn´t like like extra or misplaced lumps, wrong textures, wrong node building and stuff like that. Slowly cleansing test wads has allowed me to properly run them. I´m not sure if the placement order inside the wad matters, but I´d swear that after moving the whole MAP01 thing up Legacy wanted to run my wad.

Also, I managed to get my Legacy to work in software mode: just deleted everything and installed again. You know, software mode Hexen makes me feel like a better man!.

That said, I´m going in a small vacation for a week or so. I´ll try to come up with some ANIMDEFS text that can stand the basic Hexen functionality. Are there any additions to the ANIMDEFS model for Legacy v2.0???. If there aren´t I could write about it as if it was basic Hexen editing.

[smite-meister]

AFAIK, a Flat texture is the same setup, but the FLAT gets placed between H_START and H_END markers which you would have to create also.

No, H_START is something different, see here (just finished writing it:)):
http://doomlegacy.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/editing.html#graphics
If you use NTEXTURE to define a texture, it does not matter if you use it on walls or floors, they always work the same way.

[smite-meister]

Now about shutting up problems: I noticed that Legacy won´t load any wad with something it doesn´t like like extra or misplaced lumps, wrong textures, wrong node building and stuff like that.

If Legacy just shuts down unexpectedly, check what the files stdout.txt and stderr.txt have to say.

That said, I´m going in a small vacation for a week or so. I´ll try to come up with some ANIMDEFS text that can stand the basic Hexen functionality. Are there any additions to the ANIMDEFS model for Legacy v2.0???. If there aren´t I could write about it as if it was basic Hexen editing.
No additions, just the normal Hexen stuff.

[Danimetal]

Didn´t know about those txt but if I did I sure could have saved a lot of my time testing what could be going wrong... They talk about my flats being incorrect (probably missing from the wad) on some test levels I made, bad ANIMATED cycles (gotta take a look at that) and nothing on ANIMDEFS.

As for the ANIMDEFS text for the manual, I´ll take it, I´m sure there´s not a lot to it :).

[MR_ROCKET]

If you use NTEXTURE to define a texture, it does not matter if you use it on walls or floors, they always work the same way.

Ok cool, I'll take a look ;)
Thing is about the flats well, I wasn't getting proper scaling so I ended up using H markers and it worked without the scale though it had to align to the grid that way. 256x256 flat. I haven't had the problem with this on 3dfloors but for normal floor and ceiling flats, which is strange.
I'll review the new info and do what I can with it thanks. ;)

[Danimetal]

Back from my vacation I´m ready to keep up the work with the documents... I´ll get the ANIMDEFS info done as soon as possible and will use the same format that I used for "ANIMATED" and "SWITCHES", that is, little explanation, uses, sintax and tutorial... The tutorial part will be the most tricky of all since I can´t get ANIMDEFS to work. As said, I´ll just try to follow the Hexen specs (as nothing has been added) and if something goes wrong... Well, I´m sorry!!!.

Rocket, you seem to be getting the hang of hi-res and scaling. How about writing some lines for the manual about it if you feel like it :)?. I can take it if you can´t but it would take some time to get used to these new things.

Edit: Does anybody know something about adding new textures to Hexen?. I tried the regular Doom way with XWE so I could test ANIMDEFS but it doesn´t work.

[smite-meister]

The tutorial part will be the most tricky of all since I can´t get ANIMDEFS to work.
Take a look at the ANIMDEFS lump inside hexen.wad. AFAIK that at least should work.
For example the level exit teleporter texture in Winnowing Hall is animated.

[Danimetal]

You almost read my mind: that´s exactly what I´ve done to create the document and I even put a snippet of the Hexen´s ANIMDEFS lump to explain how it works... I´m polishing it and trying to make it easier to read right now. I´ll surely PM it to you in a couple of hours :).

[MR_ROCKET]

Rocket, you seem to be getting the hang of hi-res and scaling. How about writing some lines for the manual about it if you feel like it :)?. I can take it if you can´t but it would take some time to get used to these new things.

Yeah sounds good, but I'm sorta waiting on the next build for NSPRITES and transparency so I'll know from actual hands on knowledge of things. But for the most part, most everything should be the same, though all I'v experimented with is NTEXTURE. There's some info I posted up about over in another thread which should be fit to transfer to the doc's sometime. (and partly explaining some sort of hi-res texture size and color standard.)

I haven't tried custom textures in Hexen yet.


Edit:
Smite I haven't seen Exl around lately and he's usually the only one compiling the exe's afaik.
I'd really like to check out your latest work.
Also has it been decided whether someone is to make a new font graphic? large, scaled, or widget?