New Monster

[PumpkinSmasher]

I know we have had many discussion about this and we have never gotten anywhere. I would still like to see a new monster in this project (to replace the SS Nazi), and I'm sure many others would like to see a new monster in this project as well. The most unique concept we came up with was the suicide monster idea, and most people have tended to like the idea. Looking through everything, it seems much more likely that we will only be able to create 1 new monster.

So to get this started and have a new monster in the works, Anyone (whether you are already part of NDCP 2 or not) who would like to contribute their idea of what the suicide monster should look like, and has the ability to turn that idea into a sprite, post up a picture of your idea in this thread. After all the ideas have been see and some discussion happens, one design will be chosen and the author will be asked to create all the frames for their monster. The enemy will then be distributed to the mappers for inclusion in the wad.

You can base your design on another monster, but it needs to be creative and interesting (in other words, not something thats just another monster with minimal changes and re-colored). Make it look different.

[FATAL]

I'm glad to see a decision. With matters like this, letting the people do the choosing will lead to nothing.

I won't be able to help anyhow for the lack of skills, though. Just came to congratulate.

[jetflock]

http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/arsonist.png

CONCEPT pic. this is the basic idea-should be more than just the re-coloring. colors/shape pending( may take out more caco aspects).
he pretty much runs up to you, starts to catch fire, then explodes. my idea has him using keen and ss sprites....but may be able to use enough splat sprites to make 2 monsters.

(if enough frames can be saved we can still make an ss replacement)
old idea:
http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/altss.png

[FATAL]

Ok, we'll use the exploding caco creature. Should be cool enough. If someone has anything palpable against it, tell. Otherwise, just agree.

[DooMAD]

As long as you don't use that fire graphic on the finished version, it should be fine.

[PumpkinSmasher]

sounds good jetflock, i'm going to wait to see if anyone else has an idea as this thread hasn't been up very long and they should get their say. About creating a second monster, I am going to wait until after this one is done before deciding that. But i like the idea, no one posted a caco concept in the previous discussions.

I like the first three frames, but i don't think that fire graphic really fits in well in the last 3.

[Dutch Devil]

Wow the Cacodemon's evil twin has arrived that one looks sweet but without the flames please.
That black marine looks nice too id like to use that one aswell shall whe just go for these two;)

[jetflock]

i made that in 5 minutes(ok, half an hour)...so i can always make it less caco. :)
since sprites are easy for me, i'll try to belt out more variations(they come out faster than maps)
regarding the fire graphic: its really just a concept pic.....its hard to judge the sprites cuz the actual dehacked patch must be figured in.
ARTISTS: If we band together, we could create a "monster template" featuring a complicated sprite, then split up the animation frames, that is, if you want something somewhat original----just throwing random ideas.

[PumpkinSmasher]

hmm i thought more people would be willing to post concepts, or revive concepts from the older thread. I'll give this till the weekend and then start selecting a design for the new monster. I figure anyoen who wants to should atleast be able to come up with a basic concept for a monster by then.

[jetflock]

http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/cheech.png
walking....still playing around. the fire is just a layer....i'm just testing.

[Dutch Devil]

Very nice looks better without the bigger flames, im not an good sprite artist myself recoloring sprites is the best I can come up with.
And thats probably not something whe want to see ;)

[jetflock]

meh, if you can draw or not, give us ideas. an artist can be inspired by a masterpiece you may consider to be nose blowing.
in other words, if you have agood idea, let me know, and i'll try to flesh it out.

[Johanbeyl]

You know what I'd like to see. A monster that looks and acts like a statue. Imagine you're in a room full of statues and a few of these monsters. When you turn your back, they start moving, you hear it, turn to look and they freeze amongs the real statues. I think it'll be really scary ( or corny if a monster tries to stop 1/2 " from you and fake being a statue ) :p Or maybe a monster than blends with the background, and I don't mean just being translucent. One that actually shifts colour with the background it is running against or something. I guess it would be impossible or bloody difficult to do something like this, but maybe one day heh?

[Dutch Devil]

A floating revenant with the lower part of his body in flames or something like that.
Ive never seen an custom monster based on the revenant before.

[jetflock]

Hmmm...I thought you guys wanted the suicide guy????
Its still open to debate? (The action I mean.)

[FATAL]

Yes, suicider it is. All other opinions will be discarded in the name of effectiveness.

[PumpkinSmasher]

well it does't look like anyone else is going to come up with an idea

Red Suicide Zombie (doomjedi)
http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/tnt2.png
Green Suicide Zombie (doomjedi)
http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/tnt8.png
Alternate Suicide Demon (doomjedi)
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3589/imp31hc.png

[rustyslacker]

I really like that caco, but I think some kind of middle ground with the flames should be found. The first set looks too big, the second is too small.

Both are really cool though. :)

[Logan MTM]

I like of Red Suicide Zombie !!!
I have my own ArchVile. I'll try finish and show here.

[ace]

I like Jetflock's Cacomajigger. :D

[jetflock]

the flames are really just reference for something else.....heh pumpkin,(regarding your kewl sprites) i had a similar idea for my S.S.esque sprite.
hmm...on this subject....
i was thinking maybe the suicide guy should fly.....
how come my dehacked patches can't lift the s.s. off the ground????
i'm just testing and all....but i can't seem to make my exploding caco fly.
OH YEAH!
I had an idea the other day....
If the suicide guy's melee frame would be 127, the exploding state, the S.S. far range attack wouldn't be used.....
another idea would be to turn this into a gun turret, which also explodes....

[PumpkinSmasher]

Alright, well it appears you are the only one interested in this jetflock, so your flying caco will be the new monster. About a second monster, I will still plan on waiting until this one is done before deciding. You can try to see if you can save enough frames for a second monster, but thats entirely up to you. I may try to mess around with a dehacked patch later. If the fire isn't working out you could try puting a bomb or something explosive in the caco's mouth. Just another idea.

[jetflock]

http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/newcacprog.png
KAMIZODEMON
EDIT: ALL FINISHED.
http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/suicidemonster.zip
contains a wad and a dehacked patch(blank.wad and blow.deh). test on maps 31 and 32.
idfa some weapons and see how he reacts to guns. try him out.(In retrospect, for those that think this guy is too hard, I should have added a demo.I guess the weakest gun you want on your side with him is the double shotgun--the chaingun won't always take him down.)
new sounds.new, but he belongs to the caco family.
the animation is fluid enough, and the explosions are about as good as its going to get.
i thought the speed was fitting. a room of them (like in map32) can blow eachother up---infighting amongst themselves and other monsters should be interesting(kill a cyberdemon with tons of these guys). he can travel over cliffs, but maybe its good he can't fly. if someone can edit him flying, without changing the other functions, send it to me.
I only used the s.s. sprites. Lots of stuff left for modification-Keen without his sounds, the S.S. fire frame, and the S.S. splat frames,some S.S. death frames, just enough for something like a gun turret/exploding lost soul/another S.S. type replacement(thats iffy).....
EDIT: re-uploaded with a password, and threw in a fun single/co-op/dm map called suifun.wad that tests how long you can hold off an army of these guys.

[Osiris's_Legacy]

Finally, there is a monster. Is this going to be a final choice in the suicide monster? If it is, I might start using them.

[PumpkinSmasher]

It worked fine in Legacy and Zdoom, but I think the monster should be slower.
Try this dehacked patch:
http://zephyr.doomrepublic.com/files/blow2.deh
I got it to fly with that, try a level with higher ceilings so you can see it better.

[ace]

With that version, the flying doesn't seem to work except when they attack, for some reason. Otherwise they still hover like usual. Also for some reason they sometimes seem to like flying up to the player's face, then turning and going in another direction, rather than attacking. I like the speed of that one much better though, in the first version they bring back repressed memories of the awful original version of the cacophytes in Zen Dynamics... *shudder* :p

Other than those strange issues, the monster is awesome, makes a nice ending for my map. Now all that's left is a possible new monster and the dead lost soul replacement (still haven't figured that one out :().

[PumpkinSmasher]

Well, we have a few more quirks to work through before this will quite be ready, but its looking like this will be our new monster. Since jetflock made the monster I think it should make its first appearance on his map06. I'll add this to the resource wad and such as soon as it is completely finished.

[rustyslacker]

Alright, well it appears you are the only one interested in this jetflock, so your flying caco will be the new monster.
What about Logan? He said he had a new ArchVile to show us.

[ace]

Aren't we still able to replace Commander Keen? If that's the case it could replace that...

[jetflock]

hmmm....yeah...i like the speed because they like to turn so much....this can be countered regarding groups of these fuckers....
well, thats my contribution anyways, if someone can pretty up the dehacked patch, more power to you(i still think the speed is fitting), i still would like to review the revised patch....
on the same token, i like fast monsters, but this is al up to you guys
since i made these sprites....keep me informed ( P.M. messages even....)
i alreradyy have sprites for a stationary, crouching gunner....but my dehacked work isn't seasoned enough to keep him going.
if i can provide any artistic help regarding another monster, let me know, as long as i'm jobless, my production rate as far as graphics, are very high.
Logan, talk to me about your vile(i could prolly help you with tedious sprite editing)...i may be able to give you additional info regarding what the kamizodemon uses and doesn't use....
most likely, people won't like whatever i create, so your monster wilkl prolly be chosen....
as long as imdtruk-i'm drunk;;;;lll------i still like th eway they act.

[MR_ROCKET]

Thats one evil looking Caco. I like it !

[jetflock]

are you guys leaving john romero's head as is?
Edit: I have sprites made up for a possible second monster, if someone wants to make a dehacked patch for it.
its that crouching marine i had earlier, he would act like a gun turret(s.s.fire sprites),would have pain sprites(keen pain),
and death frames(s.s.splat).
my dehacked attempts aren't getting him going. I'll send one of you the sprites if you think you can dehacked him up.


EDIT: Hey pumpkin,blow2.deh looks fine to me. if you wanna use that patch(originally i also had him travelling over cliffs)....the reason i had him fast was to make him harder to hit incase he does that in your face out of your face type of thing....then again, i depend its up tp the mapper to find a way for this guy to be effective....its hard getting that melee attack working uber-well since the monster is a hack.

[jetflock]

Sorry for the double posts, but this needs its own space....
ANOTHER MONSTER COMPLETED....
http://www.geocities.com/rasputin1980/contra.zip
contra.wad
contra.zip

contains the KAMIZODEMON with PumpkinSmasher's speed change + travels over cliffs.
contains a stationary marine crouching to fire at you. he takes hits, and dies.
the map in the wad file contains both monsters for your viewing pleasure.

[ace]

I'll check out the turret dude real quick, sounds cool, but I wanted to post now while it was fresh in my mind and say that the kazimodemon drops clips in PrBoom.

EDIT:
Nasty. Deadly. Vicious. Awesome. :D

Just needs sound. And personally I'd make the firing rate a bit slower, since it does so much damage.

[jetflock]

?????does it? i just played it....which patch you using?blow 1 or 2?
i had to redo some things in the new contra.deh patch, while still retaining pumpkin's speed.
i may have another trick around this....
lemme load this in prboom again and make sure....
yep, i didn't notice it.....hmm...i'll see what i can do...everything else should be covered though....
at what point does the s.s. drop his clip....after fall or after scream?
AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!! EDIT:
I think I am burnt out with dehacked....i thought swapping the death frames of the 2 monsters would work, having the marine drop a clip even, but my brain is done with dehacked. if anyone can fix it( and it shouldn't be too hard to do) WITHOUT leaving out the other actions....rock on.
EDIT: just read your edit ace....what can i say, i like fast monsters, its my reasoning that crap like that in doom2 can make it compete with newer games.lol.
i don't think we have anymore sound to edit....thats why i used the marine's death....the only sound that you can hear from this guy-due to the nature of the dehacked patch-is his death sound. we could go with generic zombie, but i like to think of this guy as a clone of the doom marine:)

[didy]

first I want to say that it is great that jetflock is seriously working on a new monster, very good work, jetflock

good - the face, looks nice, sound, the idea itself
less good - the fire of the explosion this could be more colorfull or brighter and bigger - if it is possible

just an idea, the back or the sides of the kamizodemon could have some tech stuff, so it would look like a cross/hybridation between a "bomb" and a living monster, this would give it a sense for the explosion

it was a nice surprise an well used in ace's map (already played but I will test your map within the next few days)

[jetflock]

i'm not lifting one more finger.lol. the explosions are the standard explosion cuz i really have no more frames....i beleievemaybeiguess....
i'm all about simplicity...though if someone wants to polish up the dehacked patch(no droppy clips)....thats another story-if someone can get make a patch that can utilize more frames/graphics i'll make more sprites.....
speaking of which, the 2 pre-explosion sprites(the 2 sprites before the sprite shifts to 127-explosion), should be using the "lit" function, maybe even the last walking graphic(facing forward) of the suicide guy as well.
EDIT:hmm...i thought him huffing and puffing kinda made you think he was gonna do something severe like blow up....as far as cybernetics go....

[jetflock]

so, whats what in this thread? anyone have any info regarding monsters/dehacked patches????

[jetflock]

couldn't edit previous posts....so....
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/20207260618.gif (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/20207260618.gif&s=f10)
alternative john romero.

[Macro11_1]

Jetflock, your sexy. *byte*

[ace]

Heheh. :D

Is the death pit (replacement for the dead lost soul) thing going to be possible at all? I couldn't figure it out (despite I'm practically DeHackEd illiterate anyway), but without it I have to figure out a new way to restructure the middle of the caverns area at the end of my map, which I'd rather not do... :/

[Danimetal]

Hmmm... You can do some death pit with Boom extensions: just create a two sectors with a voodoo doll oustide the map. One of them must have a teleport exit just over it and the other must be scrolling so the voodoo doll is carried with the floor. Create a teleport line so one voodoo doll can teleport over the other and block the access to the teleport line somehow (with a door, for example).

Now, about 40 units (or more, if you want a long fall) from the death pit´s edge create a line that triggers the door. The door will open, the voodoo doll will be carried away and will be teleported over the other. Instant death for the player costs only 3 sectors.

[ace]

Already tried and failed that. Useless in MP, plus the player was able to trigger it without falling in (i.e. running over the gap quickly), no matter how wide or differently shaped it was.

Otherwise I'd have to resort to putting in a railing or filling the bottom with acid; in the former, the flying monsters are pretty much useles, and in the latter, it's not only annoyingly stupid IMO, but it doesn't make sense for the location it's in.

Plus, then it loses its already non-existent Legacy compatability. :p

Agh.

[FATAL]

You know your problem? You make things way too difficult.

[ace]

You know your problem? Wasting time pointing out other people's problems instead of mapping so you get it done sooner. :p

But what can I say? I'm a picky person. You know that feeling you get where you could change it, but then it wouldn't seem as good/unique and interesting, nor would it have that spark you planned it to have? That's the feeling I'm getting. That, and my stomach hurts really bad. I thought it was hunger 'cause I ate dinner five hours ago, so I had a handful of crackers, but now it's definitely more like a pain-pain, not a hunger-pain. Plus I'm tired. I think I'm going to go to bed now.

Hooray for dodging the subject at hand! :D

[MR_ROCKET]

Ace: Map that stomach pain away ! :)

Fatal : just map.. :D

Me: YOUR NOT SUPPOSE TO WORRY ABOUT ME !!!!

[Raptor Jesus]

hmm... i downloaded that "contra.zip" and it apears to be passworded. what would the password be for it?

[FATAL]

The password is "reckoning hath cometh"

[Danimetal]

Already tried and failed that. Useless in MP, plus the player was able to trigger it without falling in (i.e. running over the gap quickly), no matter how wide or differently shaped it was.
You sure dude?... Hmmm, the MP compatibility can be achieved with multiple vodoo dolls, one per each player and about the player skipping the trigger, that´s rather strange. As far as I know the triggers should work every time (last time I tried it worked flawlessly) so there may be a problem with the set-up of your trap. You know, you can always send your map to uncle Dani so he can try to solve the problem.

Plus, then it loses its already non-existent Legacy compatability. :p
As if any of my non-Legacy maps was Legacy compatible XD!. Serious, I wouldn´t worry about that... Legacy will handle voodoo dolls when v2.0 is out and well, I´m sure there are some maps out there (like... say... Map03) that are not Legacy compatible. I wonder, who could have the heart to do that?.

[PumpkinSmasher]

So was there any final version to this new monster thing? I remember a few problems with the suicide cacodemon thing, was it fixed?

[jetflock]

I was hoping someone with better dehacked skills could polish the monsters off....
Edit: On this note....
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/22203245781.png (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/22203245781.png&s=f10)
here is a test for a new hud. not pictured are the digits, which are the same as the first ndcp, but blue. stands out nicely against the red bar.
hmmm.....er....sorry about the size....

[Dutch Devil]

Looks quite good without the jetflock in it of course ;) the black lines would look better if they where red.

[FATAL]

Yeah, the ammo part should look like the rest I think. Otherwise, that looks pretty damn good.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Yes, but could you replace the first "jetflock" with a PumpkinSmasher. I think it would look better that way. lol
I like it, but i agree the black lines should be red.

Also, try to find someone to finish off that suicide monster, I would like to get in in the resource wad as soon as possible for everyone to use. That is if we get it to work correctly.

[ace]

You know it would be incredibly easy to 'Shop out the 'jetflock's written on there and steal that graphic for my own use, right? :p

Nice indeedy, though again another person agrees with making the ammo section look the same with the colors.

You sure dude?... Hmmm, the MP compatibility can be achieved with multiple vodoo dolls, one per each player

You can't tell the engine which player to kill if not all fall in, now, can you? I can imagine it being only a slight annoyance in DM ("Damnit, who fell in the pit and got everybody fragged?"), but I imagine having to make every player in a coop session start the entire level over because someone fell in is just... argh. :p

and about the player skipping the trigger, that´s rather strange. As far as I know the triggers should work every time (last time I tried it worked flawlessly) so there may be a problem with the set-up of your trap.

What I mean to say, is that the player can make it over certain parts of the chasm without falling in, and therefore can trigger the effect when it is not meant to. Picture this as the general shape of the chasm:

__||
||||||||
__||

The player can (and keep in mind there is no way to tell who will be using autorun or a turbo level higher than the default), at certain parts (marked as red), run fast enough to jump across the cavern without falling in; no matter how I've reshaped it there's always at least one last small nook or cranny where it can be achieved. The effect IS always triggered; whether or not the player actually falls in, because one only needs to pass the line to trigger the effect. Because of this it is possible to spontaneously combust without being inside the chasm in the first place.

I know what the argument is: "MAEK YOUR CHASM PLAIN AND ROUND, STOOPUD!" But even then it doesn't solve the problem concerning MP (plus it doesn't fit the shape of the room very well either). I do have one more VERY-last-resort idea (nukage... bleagh), but I refuse to put that into action unless it is absolutely impossible to pull the DeHackEd thing off (or unless there is truly another work-around). So there. :p

You know, you can always send your map to uncle Dani so he can try to solve the problem.

Let me finish gameplay/DM/coop tweaking, and I'll upload the 99% (it's DeHackEd-ready for the dead lost soul thing but I refuse to see it as completely done unless it's functional as well) finished product for all tomorrow. ;)

[FATAL]

Once I sent a map to danimetal, and when he sent it back, all the textures were replaced with animal porn.

[ace]

Oh, that's just because he hates you. I actually helped him with that, as a matter of fact. Good times, good times. Um... did I just type that out-loud? :p

[jetflock]

oh, in game, the colors kind of bleed to the right of the screen. its more subtle.
hmm.....i know some of you are really good with dehacked...nobody has taken a crack at making a better dehacked patch???
(ace...i just had a chasm idea...i'm going to make up a test wad to see if the concept works...)

[rustyslacker]

@Jetflock hud:

Maybe the digits would look better silver/white instead of blue.

[jetflock]

thats what they were at first, but they looked kinda ugly to me.

[Danimetal]

Once I sent a map to danimetal, and when he sent it back, all the textures were replaced with animal porn.

I thought you liked hamster sex.

You can't tell the engine which player to kill if not all fall in, now, can you? I can imagine it being only a slight annoyance in DM etc etc etc etc etc ......

Oh, yeah, I didn´t count on that... You can always try to silently teleport the player to a dark, evil passage where an ultra fast crusher is waiting to kill them before they even notice.

[ace]

Even bleagh-ier. Not meaning to be picky, either, but. :p

[MR_ROCKET]

Fatal hamster sex
hehheheh

@ace, now what is the player suppose to do again?
I haven't been paying attention rofl.

I like it, nice work jetflock.
If I could think of anything? maybe, frame in the red scan-lines a bit and add a slight haze to the corners of them, something like a monitor screen for each of the areas.;)
But I know its limited pixels heh.

OT@!
That might be a good name for a website,"Limited Pixels Art" ;)

[qwerqsar]

I'm trying and trying, but what are the passwords to all these zips? I wanna try the monsters *bow*

[MR_ROCKET]

If your names not in the list here : http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=30408
Then no password for you.
In other words, the project resources aren't open source. *crazy*
Sorry :\

[ace]

Yeah, what fun would it be to see the resources of a project before it is complete? Companies in the gaming industry only go so far as screens/video, they do not go and release random stuff they've been working on half-way through the development process. Resources are for folks working on the project, and if we wanted other folks to have the password we would have posted it up publically.

But nothing's stopping you from joining the team yourself (and you would have to contribute). ;)

[qwerqsar]

nice. just gimme a while to learn the quirks and I'll be there. Until then I'll have to wait :(

[Raptor Jesus]

yey, i'm know something you don't know XP

[EDIT] I just tried the new monsters. I like the splody caco's. They go BOOM! :P The S.S. Nazi replacement turret guy i didn't like so much. I would kind of like to see him move.

[jetflock]

yeah, i would too, maybe you will like him a bit slower. judge them by the graphics for now, the dehacked patch needs to be redone by someone better with dehacked than me. I would have liked to have him walking, but not enough frames.....
I would love to have him stay as this....but other replacements for him could be done.....
he is a turret, basically...
you could also have shootable forcefields....
a different hanging object....
or 14 untouched virgins that give you 300% health....
i'm still amazed nobody here is taking a crack at the dehacked patch....I suppose I(or you guys) will recruit someone, and give him credit for it.