shadows for 2D sprites

[doomjedi]

I'm just curious...why I've seen only one Doom port (EDGE) that implemented dynamic shadows for 2D sprites, and not only for 3d models...it's it so hard to implement? adds much to the realism.
Also , why we have so little ports (only 2) with splitscreen support? When Zdoom for example will implement that?

[DaniJ]

I'm just curious...why I've seen only one Doom port (EDGE) that implemented dynamic shadows for 2D sprites, and not only for 3d models...it's it so hard to implement? adds much to the realism.It's not terribly hard to implement as such but it depends on the quality you want. Sure its easy enough to do stencil shadows or even shadow volumes but if you want soft edges or multiple shadows per object it is a bit more complicated.

From Doomsday's POV then renderers don't currently support stencil buffers so they would need to be updated before anything like this can be done. Doomsday's renderers only provide pretty old methods/concepts by todays standards, up until recently Doomsday hasn't needed anything more recent.

Currently updating the rendering dlls is fairly low priority (Skyjake has previously said he doesn't want to spend any time on updating them and would prefer to spend the time on Hawthorn).
Also , why we have so little ports (only 2) with splitscreen support? I don't know. I would guess it comes down to priorities and what the authors of the ports feel is worth their development time. Splitscreen support in Doomsday for example is something that will benefit all the supported games as long as we implement it in way that is transparent to the game logic, so it is much more important for the Doomsday Engine (not to mention more feasible in a port like Doomsday due to it's architecture).
When Zdoom for example will implement that?I think you'll be waiting a long time for splitscreen in Zdoom. Randy has previously said he has very little interest in multiplayer period, even less in offering splitscreen support.

[doomjedi]

I didn't meant multiple shadows....I meant like in EDGE - just 2D image beneath the 2d sprite which is basically copy of the sprite, colored to black or grey, vertically downscaled and aligned with the floor. adds much to the realism.

[DaniJ]

I didn't meant multiple shadows....I meant like in EDGE - just 2D image beneath the 2d sprite which is basically copy of the sprite, colored to black or grey, vertically downscaled and aligned with the floor. adds much to the realism.Thats what I was alluding to with my quality comment. In Doomsday we want shadows that will dance around dynamicaly casting shadows onto everything (and hopefully self-shadowing) depending on direction of light and number of sources. This can't be achieved using the method employed in EDGE and since we already have simple blob shadows under objects - replacing them with yet another "over-simplified approximation" seems to be a waste of time. I'd rather wait until we are able to do the real thing.

[doomjedi]

never understood what "self shadowing mean"... :(
from what I've seen in Tenebrae port, such features like you listed and per-pixel lighting are very heavy on the computer processor :)

[ace]

When Zdoom for example will implement that?

Never ever, I'm afraid. There have been a few requests made for it at ZDoom's forum and they've all been red-flagged (meaning "it will not be implemented").

never understood what "self shadowing mean"... :(

The most basic way of putting it is having an object cast a shadow on itself. For example, you standing with your right shoulder to a lamp causing a shadow of your head to overcast on your left shoulder.

Happy belated Evil Day, BTW. *points to Jedi's post count* ;)

[doomjedi]

but how can this work on 8 directional sprites? it can only work on models...
I meant implementing shadows for 2d flat sprites

[DaniJ]

Obviously self-shadowing wouldn't work with sprites but shadow volumes can still be used with sprites.

[Jaquboss]

self shadowing? That's evil!
It doesn't look as good on characters ( mainly because shadow volumes are sharp )
Games like Doom3 or Quake 4 has it intentionaly disabled
Shadows for sprites in edge look like crap (in my opinion of course), I think that Doomsday does it nice enought

[DaniJ]

self shadowing? That's evil!
It doesn't look as good on characters ( mainly because shadow volumes are sharp )Not actually _TRUE_ Ultra modern hardware can perform multisample anti-aliasing on shadow volume edges in hardware (eg Nvidia's Ultra Shadow).

The reason its disabled is because at present hardware is not good enough to do it properly at a decent frame rate.

I didn't say we WOULD use shadow volumes in Doomsday. We haven't even started looking into these things yet.

[Jaquboss]

Not actually _TRUE_ Ultra modern hardware can perform multisample anti-aliasing on shadow volume edges in hardware (eg Nvidia's Ultra Shadow).

ok let's live in present please *drunk*
Yes i know you aren't going to do it now, you just said you want it
OK, to prevent any flaming or stupid discussion..
@original post
Splitscreen: check how big priority is it for everyone, you may not be suprissed if it isn't implemented if ppl simply don't care about it..
Personaly i think it's better to have better network code than splitscreen support
sprite shadows: Dani said it, it just look really hacky in Edge and doesn't look much realistic, it will be even worse in more complicated levels with transparent floors, 3d floors, slopes... You may again check priority or suggest it to creators, but i doubt anyone really want this.. ( I personaly prefer simple bob shadows at this situation )