Cam / Arcade Doomish thing

[Rellik_jmd]

Instead of working like I should have been I made this this morning:

cam_maps_v01.zip (http://www3.telus.net/public/daewoo/download/cam_maps_v01.zip)

You play 3rd person from a high angle kind of like you do in some other games... that I saw once... yeah I don't really play anything that id hasn't spawned so...

You'll see, just fire up the map and take a peek. I recommend using the rocketgun / plasmagun as it looks the coolest. You start with full weaps and in God mode. I'd appreciate feedback or ideas. I'm not sure if I'll ditch the project or fool around with it a bit more, it seems fairly fun IMO.

[Aliotroph?]

That would be fun if Legacy's chasecam worked differently. It has a bad habit of getting stuck on stuff. Even a good DooM chasecam isn't quite what you want here though. You'd want the camera to basically maintain its view above the player and sit in the void if it needs to like it does in the halls on map01. Did you change that map? I noticed it wouldn't do the same thing in other maps.

[Rellik_jmd]

Oh I had to do a shit load of work to the map. In fact if you open in up in your editor you'll see a whole other copy of MAP01 off to the side that I used for comparison. The whole map has a cieling hieght of 512, but the surrounding sectors are all full dark so it looks like the camera is outside looking in. In the rooms I continued wall texs above by putting them in the middle tex slot and lower pegging them. That way the camera can swing around and hit as few obstacles as possible. With MAP01 though everything is jammed so close together that it's hard to avoid everything without chopping bits out...

[Planky]

Now for Resident Evil style doom maps.

[Aliotroph?]

I get it now. Clever idea.

[Danimetal]

Quite clever!. You see, I expected to see something different but I think I like what I saw. Now it gives me two ideas:

-Different fixed cams: Cross a line and change cam as you enter places.
-Sidescrolling cam: I think ToxicFluff had something on the works a couple of years ago.

And there are many uses but well, so many ideas, so little time :(.

[Planky]

I made a small test wad with Resident Evil style cams, it worked well enough - but aiming was a bitch.

[Rellik_jmd]

Yeah I was thinking if I got really ambitious when you came to the end boss it would switch to where you are stuck looking straight forward at the boss and can only move side to side, just as it can. There could also be sections where you'd play is as a side-scroller. It'd be cool to have it switch between that and even other different stuff, kind of like the mini-games in those crazy Mario games I've seen other people play. Lots of work to do that though.

[DarkWolf]

-Different fixed cams: Cross a line and change cam as you enter places.

I did this once for a DM map, the idea was for the script to run on the server so you could have a psuedo dedicated game and the server machine could see the action without being in the playing area.

Couldn't get it to work, but that was years ago, perhaps I might try again.

[Danimetal]

I made a small test wad with Resident Evil style cams, it worked well enough - but aiming was a bitch.
Well... With the angle functions and stuff one could be able to spawn an object that looks like a crooshair and that is set at a relative position from where the player is aiming. Maybe a couple of them would work better... Anyway, I haven´t found any other way of making aiming easier. Laser sight anyone?.
Yeah I was thinking if I got really ambitious when you came to the end boss it would switch to where you are stuck looking straight forward at the boss and can only move side to side, just as it can. There could also be sections where you'd play is as a side-scroller. It'd be cool to have it switch between that and even other different stuff, kind of like the mini-games in those crazy Mario games I've seen other people play. Lots of work to do that though.
Ahhh, multi-gameplay styles wad... A lot of work for a single person but well, has in any moment Legacy community project arised?. That would, of course, imply the existance of such community. You know, it could be tried.

[Aliotroph?]

What exactly does a game gain from Resident Evil cams other than a feeling that the action is disjointed/confusing and all contrived to make a pleasing camera effect? Rellik's idea is cool because it's FUN, not because it looks shiny.

[Planky]

Who said anything about shiny? or about his mod being not fun? stop being a killjoy.

I did have a script that created a corona based laser sight, it worked, but it looked like crapola in a bucket.

[Danimetal]

In that case the laser sight doesn´t serve any purpose... I don´t know, autoaim script?. Once I thought about something like that: the player would shoot lineattack bullets aimed straight to a target marked with a reticle (a transparent and non solid thing) but both making the reticle choose a target and shoot were a bitch and needed of continously thing type retrieving. Never got to make anything about it. Planky´s signature keeps on being of a great sensibility.

As for the cameras... I don´t honestly know Alio: Legacy can get a lot of stuff to make Doom feel like something else. If this something else feels good or bad is a matter of personal taste, I think... I would like to make something with these fixed cameras, even if it´s a small part in a wad just because it could be fun and new to the player. Of course it would be out of place in your regular Doom gameplay but, as said, Legacy can get much more than Doom.

[DarkWolf]

Some of these ideas sound great, but they're also pushing the scope of FS. Remember that toxic was using his own version of the executable to pull off some of the things in his mod.

[Danimetal]

I think that Toxic fixed an infamous math error and also introduced the FS codepointer stuff. If both of those additions are present in v2.0 (the math one really annoys me) I think that we could do some nice experiments... Anyway, I agree with the "scope pushing" thing: FS should be a complement to competent mapping but if pushed far enough (and with lots of workarounds) can bring interesting possibilities. It´s true that its pushing FS too far, but I think it´s positive to do so.

BTW and related to the math thing, is there any way in with a variable can store a number like 9.999.999?. Int ones were in a range from -40000 to +40000 (or something) and it´s strange to have that limit in a score marker.

[Aliotroph?]

No it isn't. The Windows 3.1 version of Tetris had a score that went from -32768-32767. Wrapping that all the way around to zero was an impressive achievement only my brother and dad could manage. :D Of course, a Tetris game shouldn't have a use for negative numbers so they should have used unsigned integers for that stuff.

If pushing FS so far is positive then how is it pushing it too far? :p

And my point about cameras was really that I personally find games with ever-changing fixed cams to be frustrating and disjointed. I liked Rellik's chasecam though. :)

[rustyslacker]

Wow! I liked the effects, Rellik. But did you all notice that the camera got horribly stuck when you go through narrow doorways?

Maybe that's just a Legacy thing, though.

Is it possible to add a crosshair?

[Aliotroph?]

The camera getting stuck is a Legacy thing. If you look at the map in an editor you'll notice that he opened it up wide above where the ceilings/walls would be so the camera has room to swing around. Things like doors obviously still get in the way of that though. Try playing Underhalls when you pass his map. It's near impossible because the camera gets stuck on everything or goes into a jittery-strobe mode when it can't figure out where to go.

This could be really fun with some custom maps. :D

[Danimetal]

I´ll figure out another way to do the score script then... Maybe I´ll split 9 digits into two variables or something :). About the cam, I´m thinking on some sideways moving platforms that could be achieved for sidescrolling stuff (tweaking some objects in Doom). I´m sure it can be fun but of limited use :(.

[AlysiumX]

The camera getting stuck is a Legacy thing. If you look at the map in an editor you'll notice that he opened it up wide above where the ceilings/walls would be so the camera has room to swing around. Things like doors obviously still get in the way of that though. Try playing Underhalls when you pass his map. It's near impossible because the camera gets stuck on everything or goes into a jittery-strobe mode when it can't figure out where to go.

Couldn't the camera being stuck be fixed by making it able to go through walls?

I´ll figure out another way to do the score script then... Maybe I´ll split 9 digits into two variables or something . About the cam, I´m thinking on some sideways moving platforms that could be achieved for sidescrolling stuff (tweaking some objects in Doom). I´m sure it can be fun but of limited use .

I remember working on a project called doom 2d, which made use of the camera like a sidescroller would do, it wasn't too smoother, but check it out :
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5374/doom2d012qs.th.png (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom2d012qs.png)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3112/doom2d023gp.th.png (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom2d023gp.png)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4764/doom00297mq.th.png (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doom00297mq.png)

Thing is, it was also for zdoom not legacy : \

[Danimetal]

The biggest problem with sidescrolling would be aiming straight ahead. I thought of a way that could work with the help of a few nodes (in case the map has any turn) that would mark the way the player should follow but well, I never put it into practice. Turning would also be difficult without a lot of "setobjangle" stuff.

[Rellik_jmd]

For side scrolling you'd just make a level that was about 64 units wide from beginning to end and disable the players ability to turn, they could go forward or backward but that's it.

Yeah there's a couple spots where the cam can still get stuck on that map but I didn't get around to opening the whole thing up. Then again converting a standard map is a massive pain that could be avoided really easily when making cutsom maps from scratch. It'd also be better if areas went black when you were far away from them so you can't sneek peeks into rooms you haven't reached yet. :p

It actually looks better with my modified trickjumping engine because I doubled the amount of smoke coming out of rockets, and the game could benefit with more projectile weapons as the hitscan ones are hard to see the effects of and visually unimpressive.

There is potential IMO for a decent project here, but it would have to be done carefully. Most projects die because everyone takes on WAY to much instead of just keeping it simple and therefor accomplishable. Is "acomplishable" a word? It is now! I dunno, if people wanted to work together on this as a community project I'd definitely help, BUT it'd have to be done in a way where no one persons contribution would make-or-break it. So if person "A" wants to make a level, fine, go for it, but no one's going to count on it.

There should just be a general dead-line (say a month from now) where everyone hands in whatever bits they decided to make and we'll patch them together then. Hell, you shouldn't need to "sign up" or even tell anyone you're contibuting anything at all. Decentralized. A leaderless project. Go make your shit however you want, just have it done by whatever-the-date-is. The only rule is it can't be first person perspective. :p

We could use the totally bitchin "addfile" feature and wouldn't even need to merge wads or resources, just change the parameters of the exitswitches to load the correct next wad file. :)

[Aliotroph?]

Those shots are cool except for none of the textures being aligned.

[rustyslacker]

Thing is, it was also for zdoom not legacy : \

Wasn't it a a stand-alone project? It's at Home of the Underdogs.

The camera being able to go through the walls would work pretty well, I think.

[Danimetal]

Rellik, are you actually suggesting to do it?. It would be a disjointed project without an aim but well, Legacy needs projects.

[Rellik_jmd]

I'm thinking of making a new level from scratch in this style, if other people want to do the same then that would be great. Heck, even if people would just be willing to contribute bits and bobs to show how to make a side-scroller or other kind of game for other people to map for that would be great too. But to be clear, I wouldn't be willing to spearhead a project or anything. Maybe people interested could start posting little bits of map or examples of how stuff would work it would just kind of steadily build into a project on it's own. :-)

The great thing about this chase-cam mapping stuff is that you don't have to worry much about detail since there's no cielings and you can't close enough to see fine work anyways. :p

[rustyslacker]

Sounds fun. I'm up for it!

[AlysiumX]

Wasn't it a a stand-alone project? It's at Home of the Underdogs.



No the screens you saw were actually from zdoom, it was a project I stared but never finished.

[DooMAD]

-Sidescrolling cam: I think ToxicFluff had something on the works a couple of years ago.
Yes, I really wish Tox would make a comeback and finish Doomsplat.

[lucius octavion]

I know srb2 has a modified legacy engine and it supports sidescrolling as a built in game feature.

[rustyslacker]

Is there a way to script Legacy into an RTS?

[Danimetal]

Yes, I really wish Tox would make a comeback and finish Doomsplat.
What happened to him anyway?. I guess real life ate all his projects and stuff, you know, that Rust thing... Has anybody been in touch with him or something?. I remember he used to be very helpful and nice when asked about something :).

[Rellik_jmd]

A couple ideas I have for the chase-cam game:

- Change the pistol into the BFG using only the projectile attack, not the super-death attack frames. Make it a wimpy projectile gun so you can see your shots.

- Change bullet puffs to something else to make them much much more visible, maybe add the candle object so each puff also has a dynamic light.

Ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts?

[MR_ROCKET]

Sounds good, donno how it would turn yet though, but yeah go for it bro.;)

It would be neat also if all the levels were really dark and then have a dynamic light 'on the player', lighting his way through the levels. -something like Diablo.
But I donno how well it would work, probably need a few light sources to help out the radius without impacting frame rate though.

[Aliotroph?]

It would work nicely if Legacy had better dynamic lights. Might have to discuss how that should work with Pate once he's decided he's finished with the important parts of GL for 2.0.

Ideally the player would have a big light that isn't too bright but attenuates slowly. At least that's how I remember Diablo. ;)

[Danimetal]

What will happen with Hurdler´s renderer?.

I have my idea for this thing thought. You see, given the difficulty to aim your weapons and stuff a good solution could be not to have the player fire his weapons XD!. I am thinking in some sort of puzzle stuff... I´ll see if I can pull out an example but I don´t know when it will be available with all this NDCP2 and ATC things.

Edit: I´m actually trying to pull it right now and it´s not as easy as I thought... Damn camera stuff, I don´t seem to get a nice viewpoint and then you have also to make it playable!. This thing just keeps on reminding me to the old pitfall arcade machine... Hmm: Pitfall Doom!!!.

BTW, is there anyone interested in what Rellik said about a "project"?. You know, a few wads could be released.

[Danimetal]

Double post to catch your attention!!!.

Well, here´s the results: http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/campuzzle.zip

It even includes its own txt file, isn´t it cute?. Anyway, it´s a very small thing and the concept itself could work if tweaked enough. I don´t feel as if I´m going to move in that direction though, but maybe I could throw a couple of real puzzles if I have the time and feel like it :).

[Rellik_jmd]

Interesting stuff Dani, but with a sidescroller you should only be able to move forward and backwards across the screen, not sideways towards or away from the camera. It's insanely hard to move around like that, not to mention keep that damned demon from getting on the lift with ya. :p It definitely shows how a sidescroller wouldn't be that hard to make at all, not to mention because the player only moves and fires along the +X/-X plane it would be dead easy to make as many new fraggle script weapons as you wanted.

[Danimetal]

Aaargh!!. For four times in a row my computer screwed my post and I don´t even remember what I wanted to say!!. Well, anyway, thanks for the comments Rellik, I put the demon there on purpose so people had to bitch about it :D.

The whole purpose of this was not to make a sidescroller but something with a sidecamera that allowed Doom to be played in other ways. I hate the control scheme of it though :(. Doing a sidescroller shouldn´t be hard at all, really, we have the obj angle function, we have the "bind key to script" hacks and we have cameras. We could really put out the sidescroller (with some curves in the passages, please, adding depth to the whole thing :D) scripts out today if wanted but well, there´s a thing I hate about it: control!. Well, control and monsters being stupid but there´s not a lot to do about that right now :(...

About controls... I plan to add a q,w,e,a,d,z,x and c control scheme to the thing I did so the player just moves in that direction, avoiding turning... It shouldn´t be hard at all to be done but again there´s the control issue. Legacy lacks a proper "custom wad controls" system so you can define the keys the player will use without the "bind key to script hack". I wish Legacy had a lump file where you could define a name for the action, the key assigned and a couple of attributes (for example, 1 keystroke=1 action until released or 1 keystroke = 1 action per check) like:

("Jetpack", "j", bindtoscript 1, 1key1action).

Then "Jetpack" would appear under the controls menu with the key "J" assigned, being possible to change it. It would make things much easier but, haven´t I said this before in some other thread?.

Well, I can add the directional control scheme to the wad if anyone wishes but you´d soon see what I mean with the lack of a proper custom control :(. I can bind "q" to turn northeast and be pushed there but I can´t tell how Legacy would react to leaving the "q" key pressed. Now Imagine you want to add a toggle key that keeps the player facing a direction but he can´t move in any of the others, how would Legacy react to leaving the toggle key pressed?. It would surely turn it on and off all time... That´s the whole point of the 1keystroke=whatever thing. If such things were added it would be lovely to have the ability to change the assignments to each key by FS too (combine sidescroll scenes with first person others... That would require of continously changing the controls the player set).

Back on topic, the chase-cam game would be much easier with BEX stuff :). Careful map design would be needed to keep glitches out of sight and to solve the "seeing other rooms from where you are"... Well, we have the typical Doom map scheme in our minds where everything is tied together but we could borrow some other concepts using silent teleporters and stuff.

Edit: Wow... What a long post.

[rustyslacker]

OK, I tried your map, Dani. The viewpoint thing was good but the controls were really confusing (I play with mouselook).

About seeing other rooms: Is it possible to integrate the camera with the automap?

And I'd like to help with making maps for teh camera thing. Any help from Rellik with scripts and stuff?

[rustyslacker]

Double post (yeah, you're reading it now, huh?)

I made a little map with some of Rellik's scripting and a bit of my own. The map is pretty small and simple, with a few pillars I made just to see how it affects the camera. When you start, you get a plasma gun and there's a simple loop to recharge your ammo. Have fun! (http://rapidshare.de/files/13518874/cammaps-rs.zip.html)

Click on teh "Have fun!".

[Jaquboss]

in ET i found a sidescroller map and it was done to explicitly copy mario map(thin textures and a lot of clip brushes )..
http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/13/potd/1120741027.jpg
however i like more 3d feel showed on that Doom 2d screenshots..
also note that best is to hardcode camera position and do a compatibile crosshair
shouldnt be big problem, same as disabling turning and strafing

[rustyslacker]

I think we could put together a megawad of levels optimized for 3rd-person/sidescroller view. It might help get more people into the Legacy community.

[Rellik_jmd]

I was just going to say that the sidescroller bit should be just like Mario, with doomguy jumping over crates and such. :)

Rusty: You should make sectors of your pillars and such and make them so the camera can swing through them like in my map. It's pretty easy to aim with the cam, but when the cam hits a solid wall it throws everything off.

For sidescroller controls I was thinking you could have movement controlled completely by FS, "Forward" pushes the player objmomx +1, "backward" turns the player 180 degrees (if he was facing forward and pushes him objmomx -1. Control jumping via objmomz. We could even control shooting through FS, making crazy weapons that shoot multiple streams at multiple angles etc. Mostly I'm thinking of all the classic games I played more than 15 years ago at the local arcades and pool hall. I think the pixelly nature of Doom would lend itself to it really well.

[Danimetal]

Rellik, that sounds a lot like Contra. I don´t really like the intrusiveness of FS controls since they can´t be assinged by the player in an easy way, but I´m sure it´s a good idea to pull out some sidescrolling.

I´m actually working in the camera thing right now... Legacy camera it´s buggy and tends to get in the way of everything but maybe some nice level design can create something playable without much bugs ;). Yesterday I managed to create a weapon that can be used with the camera and now I´m trying to craft some level. I´m not using Rellik´s technique so architecture doesn´t get in the way of the camera ´cos I want to keep a "First Person View" option but I think something can be done with FS so the camera keeps on at optimal place.

[rustyslacker]

Hmmm....

I like the 3rd-person angle better than the sidescroller view, but does anybody have a demo or sample script for the side camera that I can dick around with?

[g6672D]

Yeah that third-person version was pretty cute! It'd allow me to play those "evil sidescroller games" my name seems to imply. :p

[rustyslacker]

I'm still tweaking my map, I'll upload a new version later.

Nice new avatar and title, g6672D!

[Osiris's_Legacy]

Great levels Relik, Danimetal and Rustyslacker. They really work well, though in Danimetal's level the demons really annoyed me:D .

I wouldn't mind helping out with levels if you're going ahead with this MegaWad idea.

[g6672D]

Thanks. :)

Here's an idea for the chasecam for Legacy (2.0 or modified). Extend an imaginary line from the player until it hits a wall or <length> exceeds a maximum value. Then use this to position the cam. That way, the player doesn't get hidden behind things. It might create a bit of jaunty cam though.

EDIT: I just tested Rellik_jmd, rustyslacker and danimetal's versions.

Rellik_jmd's did a pretty good job. The camera didn't get stuck too often which was good. But I saw things I shouldn't have seen. Like Imps behind closed doors. MAP02 played pretty badly though. :(

danimetal's was cute. Except one of the demons followed me up the bloody lift! Got him down though and served up a nice explosion for him. :D What felt weird was the movement.

rustyslacker's had next to no sticking of the chasecam. Pretty simple level though.

I actually wanted to do an overhead Doom once. But it was proving pretty difficult to think up. Mainly because the Sprites don't render from above. I have no experience with MD2.

[Rellik_jmd]

I've got a new map in the works where I can avoid all the problems encountered with MAP01. :p It'll be a pain in the butt to have areas go light as you enter them or go dark as you leave them but I have some ideas for simplifying that problem that should work fine.
*coughs*
And now that I'm officially sick I'll probably have some extra time to work on it. :\ It's the H17N8 squirrel flu in case you're wondering. Damn squirrels....

[g6672D]

OK I'm trying to make a sidescroller version myself. Made my own small level to test specific effects. I allowed the player to turn around. That way, he can enter doorways and activate panels on walls. Now I'm trying to fix the HOM.

Planky: Your laser sight sounds useful. It's pretty hard to aim the player with a different perspective.

[Danimetal]

Well, I solved Rellik´s problem with dark areas and stuff by putting areas separatedly and linking them with teleporters in Doors... Still, what I´m doing is a lot more like "Devil May Cry" games where you hit a door and appear at a completely different location. To be honest, the idea started out with a Castlevania TC idea I had a while ago and that will wait until slopes are around (-evil laugh-), that´s why the main weapon is some kind of "Electric upgradable whip" done with some cheap dehacked. I have an area with the layout ready and maybe I should do another so you can travel between them and test it (I don´t know if it´s worth a map due to camera problems).

Speaking of camera problems, I´m trying to solve the camera getting stuck on places by changing the height and distance of the camera depending on the surroundings (FraggleScript work) and maybe adding some fixed cams somewhere (and change the control system during those sequences???...).

Edit: If the "Block everything" Hexen line flag could be used things would be a little easier: I´m using transparent textures with dark sectors behind so the camera can go through some walls (a bitch to create effects in outdoor places!) but shots can go through them.

[Rellik_jmd]

To keep shots from going through them raise the floor so the shot is hitting the side of the sector, if you need the wall taller, lower peg a tex in the middle slot. Keeping the camera from hitting is stuff is just a matter of making a void area around all your rooms and inside pillars and stuff. It's pretty tedious, but it does the trick.

[Danimetal]

Yeah, I thought about that and surely will work but the Hexen Flag would make things easier :). I have two rooms, I´ll try to post something about it ASAP.

[rustyslacker]

It'll be a pain in the butt to have areas go light as you enter them or go dark as you leave them but I have some ideas for simplifying that problem that should work fine.

Could it be possible to make the player emit light like a floorlamp/candle object?

rustyslacker's had next to no sticking of the chasecam. Pretty simple level though..

I know. I threw that thing together in 20 minutes. :D I might actually make something decent later on.

[Danimetal]

Yes, you can. Take an object that sheds light, assign it some blank frames and make it follow the player (or even have the position of the player) with Fs, something like:

mobj light=spawn(CANDLE, 0, 0, 0);
while(1)
{
setobjposition(light, objx(playerobj(0)), objy(playerobj(0)), objz(playerobj(0));
wait(1);
}

Then modify the light range with FS and you´re done. Still, the light shed that way looks like crap in the current renderer, I tried it myself ;).

[rustyslacker]

Oh, haha.

I started a different map with the 3rd-person view. I added some chunks of scripting in one section; there's a square teleporter with linetype 97 surrounded by lines that are set to activate a script. In that script is a set of commands like this:

script 50
{
runcommand("cam_dist 200\n");
runcommand("cam_height 200\n");
wait(8);
runcommand("cam_dist 175\n");
runcommand("cam_height 175\n");
wait(8);
runcommand("cam_dist 150\n");
runcommand("cam_height 150\n");
wait(8);

On like that until cam_dist and cam_height get to 25, then:
....
wait(8);
runcommand("chasecam 0\n");
runcommand("autoaim 0\n");
runcommand(*command for mouselook* 1\n");

It also has stuff that takes the player's ammo and spawns a chainsaw. That section of the map has several pinky demons. It plays a bit like the scene in the DOOM movie with the chainsaw and the pinky. :)

Can I do some scripting to spawn an item when the last pinky demon is killed?

[Osiris's_Legacy]

Yes you can Rusty. One thing I use for monsters is:

script 0
{
while(1)
{
if(objhealth(monster) < 1) //check monster health
{
movefloor(1, 0); //this is just an example of an action that occurs after killing monster
break();
}
wait(1);
}
}

startscript(0);

This just goes in a continous loop until the monster is dead. Once again, great work with all these camera WADS.

[MR_ROCKET]

Dani have you tried with only the objects dynamic lighting and no spot light, possibly a lamp object for a larger radius?
I remember Darkwolf making a wad where the light source would rotate around the player, or was that another wad?
Anyway with say 3 more lights rotating around the player,that might work..if not scratch the idea heh.

And btw hey Rellik whats up?, yo.

[g6672D]

Here's mine. Special thanks to danimetal for the "camera viewing pane" idea. Anyway, you can find it HERE (http://rapidshare.de/files/13687668/Scroll.wad.html). Enjoy it! I sure had fun. :)

[Danimetal]

Dani have you tried with only the objects dynamic lighting and no spot light, possibly a lamp object for a larger radius?
I remember Darkwolf making a wad where the light source would rotate around the player, or was that another wad?
Anyway with say 3 more lights rotating around the player,that might work..if not scratch the idea heh.
Oh, that wouldn´t be difficult at all, I guess. I was lucky to look at some Toxic´s stuff and some Darkwolfs too where I came to understand that the "sin" and "cos" math stuff actually serves a purpose XD!. Since the dynamic light radius can be changed at all, it wouldn´t be a problem. It´s just that I don´t like the way Dynamic Light looks in Legacy: it´s more like painting a colour into a wall than actually lighten it!.

Fun stuff g6672D!. The controls are a bit confusing tough (as in my wad) and the camera could be set a little bit away from the player for better seeing but this shows it´s actually possible to do some sidescrolling. I think that the most important issue to fix now is the control system. Unfortunately, FS won´t allow for precise "relative to camera" movement due to the way it interprets key pressings BUT we could use some keys to change the direction and then use the forward and backwards and strafing keys to make it work better.

Only 9 different directions would make aiming much easier :). I´ll try to arrange something about it if I have the time today.

[rustyslacker]

I had a brillaint idea for sidescrolling before my connection went wonky, but I'll try to type it again:

The player is on a 3D coordinate plane at the origin (0, 0, 0) and facing north on the Y-axis.. To show the player from the right the camera would need to be moved east from the player on the X-axis, at a point such as (50, 0, 0). Then you could have a setup like this:

Player-----|-----|-----|-----|

Where every | is a linedef that activates a script that moves the camera ahead of that linedef. Moving backward might be a problem though.

Does Legacy have an "unbind" function? I checked the docs but couldn't figure it out...

[Danimetal]

You mean some kind of "screen" format where the player reaches the edge and another camera is presented?. Can be done in both ways with a couple of methods (two different scripts per screen edge or a single, more complex script controlling the whole thing).

About unbind, I don´t know, maybe "bind" with nothing else binds the key to nothing...

And speaking of other things, I´ve been thinking about the thing that Rellik said about making all controls FS controls... It can´t be done in the current state, I think: if you leave a binded key pressed it will react in small pulses, so to say. It´s a variation of something I said earlier in this thread: to achieve better control the authors must have control tools that are not available.

[rustyslacker]

I looked at the script for g6672D's map and it's brilliant. All that needs to be done is a narrowing of the level (quite easy) and disabling turning.

So, for my map I made a hallway that's 56 or 52 wide, then put in the playerstart. I placed a few health bonuses as mapthings for the camera to be shown from and now I'm trying to figure out how to use the setcamera function. Can somebody post an example?

[g6672D]

I deliberately allowed turning to allow more complex movement. The only real problem is that there's no way of telling where the player is aiming due to the 8-sprite viewpoints. It'd be easier with a smooth-turning MD2 model player. It'd be MUCH easier with a Heretic II-esque crosshair.

I'm currently adding a few more bits to the level. Including a sunken area with 3D floor. Took a little modification to fix that window (did anyone notice that projectiles are blocked by it?) but all done. And then tweaked the forcefield. I'd like to do conveyor puzzle with crushers trying to squash the player.

[rustyslacker]

So...I tried out the screen approach, but it doesn't work too well and the screen flickers every time the camera changes. Plus it's only practical for smaller levels.

EDIT: figured it out now

I'm now trying to unbind keys. I've tried binding them to a useless command like "cls" but since the bind command requires quotation marks, it messes up the script syntax.

[Rellik_jmd]

Could it be possible to make the player emit light like a floorlamp/candle object?
Yes, but it looks like crap. If a sectors light level is zero, the light only lights the wall up as if it had a black texture on it. They don't light up sprites either I think.

And btw hey Rellik whats up?, yo.
Ugh, got the flu man and it's really kickin' the crap out of me. Thank goodness for Sudafed and NyQuil. Especially NyQuil. *GRINS DRUNKENLY*

Solidly built stuff g66, but turning in a sidescroller is not really worth pursuing. The whole reason to have a sidescroller is because you only move forward or backwards across the screen, not depthwise. Allowing the player to turn is only going to frustrate the hell out of players. :P Also, you need to have a command in there to turn off mouselooking.

[rustyslacker]

Also, you need to have a command in there to turn off mouselooking.
I put it in. "runcommand("use_mouse 1\n");" but for some reason it don't work. :P

Anyway, I've made an interesting test file, but it's really small and it's just there to show off my AWESOMEly n00bic FS skillage. :D

This is not a link to that file. (http://rapidshare.de/files/13757468/sidescroll-rs.wad.html)

[Rellik_jmd]

good stuff Rusty.

The problem I've run into now is that the player should face right when moving right, left when moving left. How the hell de we do that if turning is disabled? I was thinking of:

When you press the right arrow, it turns the player to angle 0, binds "forward" to the right arrow, binds the left arrow to the "turn script".

When you press the left arrow, it turns the player to angle 180, binds "forward" to the left arrow, and binds the right arrow to the "turn script".

I think this would work fine except that we can't bind the Forward key outside of the control options menu. Anybody got any ideas on how to work around this? Here's (http://www3.telus.net/public/daewoo/download/r01_side01.zip) the wad I've been using for testing. I tried using FS to for player movement and it was less than impressive to say the least. :P Argh!

[Danimetal]

Let´s see, the only thing I can think about it is not to bind the key to the "forward" action but to a script like this:

if(a !> 6)
{
a=a+0.5;
}

and have a script like this other running all time:

objxmom(playerobj(0), a);
a=a-0.1;

Pressing the key would increase "a" and then, the ever moving script would set the momentum of the player according to the value of "a" as well as decrease it slowly so the player stops if he doesn´t press the key. Again, the current FS movement possibilities are a bit jerky due to the nature of reading the key strokes but tweaking with the numbers could get something :).

Finally, G6672d, you used "displayplayer" as a variable in the camera function. What the hell is that :P?.

[DarkWolf]

if(a !> 6)


What kind of operator is that?

[MR_ROCKET]

Blah I seriously think someone should put more time in to a Diablo style dynamic lighting setup :P

[Rellik_jmd]

Youi don't have to worry about slowing the player down after giving them momentum, they do that automatically with friction. I tried binding the left and right arrows to move the player around via the pushobject function, but it's a real bitch to jump as the key press poops out when you press any other button. It may end up being our only option though. The movement is also not very smooth and the players legs don't move, yet another thing we'd have to simulate.

Moving / Jumping with FS does work so at least we have a fall-back option, it's just not quite as slick.

[Danimetal]

What kind of operator is that?
Drinking lately... I meant something like <.

[Rellik_jmd]

Shit, thought I had it figured out when I used the movecamera function to turn the player but it doesn't seem to want to work. The player flickers for a sec in the right direction but the original angle always returns. If you manually turn the player the other way then try to turn him back with FS it flickers in the other direction.

Anyone know how the pointtoangle() function works? can we use that to turn the player?

EDIT: Alright, I've tried everything I can think of to turn the player and it's not working. You can move it, just not turn it. So if there is no way to turn the player then we either have to:

A: get someone to mod the engine
B: Make some crazy complicated thing where the player is invisible, an object that looks like the player is what we turn back and forth, and all attacks are spawned by fragglescript.

Argh.

[Danimetal]

Ahh.. B option is always soo sweet... Again, I think we could do a formal request for better control schemes in Legacy and maybe Smite-Meister will hear our pleas :).

[rustyslacker]

Well, how does that "objangle" thing work? Can that be used in a line like:

objangle(playerobj(0))+180

EDIT: Whoops, read the docs and that ^^^ is a stupid question :)

About controls: can a script be written to kill the player instantly and without death sounds/frames and a new player spawned facing a different direction? It's an interesting idea.

[g6672D]

I'd think that angle change would be better implemented in the setobjposition() function. And displayplayer is one of those values like "trigger" except it takes the value of the current display player. Oh, and it's g6672D! Not G6672d. :)

Now, I updated my level considerably. There's now a means of allowing the camera rail to be modified. I even made camera damping. Geez that took FOREVER to implement. Kept making things like jittering camera, no-moving camera, totally wacky camera, stuttering camera, etc. :D

BUT, now it's pretty much fixed. For some reason, it sometimes goes a little funny on the Z axis movement. No idea why. It's partially fixed by using a lower refresh rate on the cam. Anyway, you can disable damping for specific axes through variables in the script.

You're gonna be loving this. ;) FIND IT HERE!!! (http://rapidshare.de/files/13829722/Scroll2.wad.html)

Enjoy it. I'll be back in a couple of days. Oh, you may use any of the scripts as long as I'm given full credit for it's creation. ;)

EDIT: Keep an eye out for the secret area!

[Danimetal]

About controls: can a script be written to kill the player instantly and without death sounds/frames and a new player spawned facing a different direction? It's an interesting idea.
I don´t think so... The player entity in Doom seems to be exclusive and there´s no way to play if your player isn´t in game or alive.

Oh, and it's g6672D! Not G6672d.
I think I can tell the difference now :P.

[DarkWolf]

Killing player 0 also stops all FS scripts spawned with startscript(). Even in a multiplayer mode.

[Danimetal]

Killing player 0 also stops all FS scripts spawned with startscript(). Even in a multiplayer mode.
You know, I never noticed it...I figure out the engine thinks that player 0 started them?. Not many multiplayer or DM maps use Fragglescript but if, for example, FS weapons want to get somewhere this could of thing should be worked. Workarounds could be FS triggering lines all around the spawning points but that is a little too lame.

[Osiris's_Legacy]

g6672D, awseome stuff there.

[DarkWolf]

Legacy is now making a liar out of me. It seems that it used to halt any scripts, but now it seems to work fine without any work around. Maybe someone fixed it and I missed the commit.

[Danimetal]

If someone fixed it, it must have happened a while ago: I´ve been using the same copy of Legacy since I joined the forums and maybe a year before that.

As far as I´ve read there have been no updates to Legacy (again it comes to my mind reading someone saying that Legacy is dead because of that... well...) since v1.42, maybe you were using some custom exe??.

[rustyslacker]

Is there a feature in Legacy that is used to turn the player 180 degrees when a key is pressed? It's in Edge and Risen3D. This could be used, if Legacy has this thing.

Dani: It's not necessary to put a spot (.) after a question mark or exclamation point. XD

[Danimetal]

Argh!. Lost my post!. As for the spot thing, well, indeed it is neccesary to put it!!!. Gramatically is not neccesary (at least in spanish) but I would go crazy if I don´t put those spots there: it´s one of my little extravagances that I can´t just let go.

The 180 degree thing seems a little primitive to me... As far as I know there´s no such key in Legacy (though it exists in other ports like Prboom, as you pointed out) but its existance wouldn´t make things easier in my opinion. Are you guys sure that the angle of the player can´t be changed manually with FS?. I tend to think that it can´t be done (maybe I tried once) but there´s no apparent reason why it couldn´t be changed with objangle as usual...

[rustyslacker]

I thought objangle was just a call to return the direction of whatever thing activated the script.

[DarkWolf]

I added support for objangle to set the object's angle, however, I didn't take into account that the player's angle is over-written by another variable when you have mouse look on. Someone might have fixed this in the CVS (iori, exl, etc).

[Rellik_jmd]

I don't know how the objangle()func works, but if anything would be the logical place to look that'd be it. Feel free to expiriment with this wad (http://www3.telus.net/public/daewoo/download/r01_side01.zip) as that's all I'm using it for.

[Danimetal]

Well, deactivating mouselook and having something like

objangle(playerobj(0), 0)

would have the angle for the player set to zero. In the same fashion

objangle(playerobj(0), 180)

would have the angle set to 180 and so on... To test it you could have mouselook off and have an infinte loop setting the angle to whatever number. Then try to turn with the keyboard. I´d try it myself but gotta go right now!.

[rustyslacker]

We could just distribute a config file with sidescoller-type controls. Left arrow is move forward, right arrow is move back, up arrow is jump, spacebar is shoot and alt is use.

I was also thinking that gravity reduction/higher jumping is needed for better puzzles plus dodging of fireballs.

[g6672D]

OK all. Here's my latest version. A real quantum leap from the last one it is!

Doom2D (http://rapidshare.de/files/14831316/Doom2D.zip.html)

I'd provide the full list of stuff but I'm too lazy to. Just find out for yourself. :) Oh, you can press ' to toggle first/sidescroll view.

[Osiris's_Legacy]

Hey this really is great g6672D. The pointer for where you are looking works well but the only prob with that is it leaves a trail on the wall. Other than that though, really cool.

[g6672D]

Would a third-person version of Doom be sought after by the community? If so, I'd say a project is a great idea.

How about a poll to decide? We've got a chase camera Legacy, a sidescroller (movement restricted) and another sidescroller (with full movement).

Oh, and I'd like to host such a project. :)

[Osiris's_Legacy]

If you're going to go ahead with this g6672D, I'd like to help out with scripting or map making. I also think you should go ahead with the poll. Feedback is generally good.

[rustyslacker]

Hehe...bump!

I've started working on a conversion of Super Mario Bros. World 1-1 for Legacy. Working well ATM. If anybody is interested I'll work on the rest of World 1. :)

[Danimetal]

I bump this thread into 2007.

[MR_ROCKET]

I wanna see Super Doom Mario Bros.!
- with dynamic lighting :D

[Danimetal]

I always saw something strange in Mario eating toxic mexican mushrooms. Dynamic lighting is certainly a simptom :P.