NDCP 2: Theming continuity

[DooMAD]

I think it would be a good idea to share our unfinished maps with people occupying neighbouring slots in order to maintain a consistent theme. As I'm doing map14, I'll give a copy of my map in progress to the people doing 13 and 15.

I'm not suggesting we copy things, but just borrow some ideas and influences. Even if it's just something subtle, like one or two textures near the exit, it would be enough to carry on the idea that you're progressing through an environment and not just randomly appearing in different places.

[Dutch Devil]

Sounds cool im not sure if I want to keep using the quake textures for my map though, I have seconds thoughts.
Ive posted three screens here in the map progress thread, and im really not happy with the result ive got.
The map layout looks good, but the textures feel wrong when im testing it, I don't get an doomy feeling.

So I think ill switch to plutonia textures, and drop the hive idea I had going
The theme will still be tech though, the map name will stay the same too.

[Doom_Dude]

I think all you need is to see some screens. Mainly we should keep the maps of similar themes together.

[ace]

Well, you've all seen my opening. All it starts with is a teleporter, pretty much, in a sort-of small valley area. I haven't decided upon an ending yet, but I know that all of the second half, from start to finish, is going to be underground/cavernous.

MAP09, also.

[Danimetal]

The previous map could end in a teleporter looking to some similar cliff to those that could be seen in the beginning of yours.

I second the motion of continuity and maybe I´ll even share some common doors and puzzles with my neighbors :D.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I'd love to have some continuity between the maps. So whoever has MAP06, and MAP08, will probably need to talk to me.

[Doom_Dude]

Errrr there's one little problem I just thought of. If one of the other guys fails to finish thier map you could end up making somethin for nothing.

[General Greivous]

When it comes to Hell I don't think continuity of a theme is so much a problem as earlier on in base maps/non-hell maps. Hell is just hell, you can't really tell where you're going to be thrown next thanks to the wonderful teleport-exit trick :D

[JohnSix]

I'd love to have some continuity between the maps. So whoever has MAP06, and MAP08, will probably need to talk to me.

I've taken on MAP08 so I would like to compare notes with you and MAP09.

As well as some visual continuity (guess were talking texture crossover/sharing) it would also help to know (particulary in the first thrird) when weapons are showing up.

I think it would be helpfull for polishing and finalizing the diffuculty if we had a general idea what weapons players could potentialy have when they arrive on our level.

Thanks in advance,
-Six

[PumpkinSmasher]

All levels should be possible from pistol start as players may die and restart with only a pistol. But difficulty should increase as one goes into the upper levels.

[MR_ROCKET]

As long as the fun factor is there then it shouldn't be a problem. heh
My maps rather fast, it's only a 4-5 min par as is with exit, I was wondering how everyones will turn out.
No one wants to spend 20 mins without gibs in a level to get to the hell levels which I think "should" take 20 mins or so.

I think the first half of the mega should progress quickly as like doom2 does. then maybe starting at around map15 things start getting tough, weather it being puzzles or lots of gibs or both. It should have a good replay value that way.

Weapons shouldn't be a big problem, as long as ammo placement and play-testing takes a roll in it :)
I figure in this mega, Our Hero - Doom guy has already been around the block, hell and back a few times and shouldn't be much of a big surprise if he picks up the plasma gun. Although I think the higher up the scale of weapons, like the bfg the harder it should be to achieve. Same for power ups, should be really hard to get or secret area stuffs.

As for texture theme continuity progressions, yeah indeed a good idea that everyone should do trade offs and ideas with the slots surrounding them. Sometimes it might be simple enough to just make a small starting room texture themed as the previous map with teleport in it or hallway leeding to your beginning area. Or maybe even outside, have a building outside that looks like the last map would from it's outside perspective, so the player will have in mind, 'ok thats where I just came from. And of course the same type of deal for the ending areas of the level.

The only problem we might run into here is.
For the surrounding slots, who's will look like who's beginning and ending?
Just like my map is after dani's map, will he be working on the ending of his map looking like the beginning of mine? or will I work on the beginning of my map to look like the ending of his?
It's just something we will have to talk about.
Communication is a must, nuff said heh.

[psykopatmullvad]

I'd love to have some continuity between the maps. So whoever has MAP06, and MAP08, will probably need to talk to me.


Map 06 here!

I will have some screens from my map ready in 7-14 days. A bit busy with work atm. I really wanna start detailing before taking screens. *bliss*

I can tell you that MAP06 will start of in a cavern and work its way into a demon infested warehouse. Then it will end in a teleporter. *diablo*

I have even named the map now, it is called "Demonic Overload" *winky*

//psykopatmullvad

[Danimetal]

For the surrounding slots, who's will look like who's beginning and ending?
Just like my map is after dani's map, will he be working on the ending of his map looking like the beginning of mine? or will I work on the beginning of my map to look like the ending of his?
It's just something we will have to talk about.
Communication is a must, nuff said heh.

Well, the easy way is to choose one of both options but I wouldn´t mind to get in touch with my neighbours (hi Rocket!!!) so we can talk about it. Also, this is easier for the tech and base maps, but merging hell stuff will be much harder. Maybe we could get to some sort of agreement like:

"All base maps end up with a switch. Continuity is required or at least, suggested in the architecture (some background buildings)".
"All marble and temple maps end up with a skull switch. Continuity is required (end in a cave, start the next in a cave)".
"All Hell maps end with a portal. The portal could have the transparent image of the next map on it".

Though it would be cool that we all talked about the beginning and the ending of our maps so we get to an agreement on theme and continuity, I guess it´s easy that Map02 gets the ending from Map01, Map03 from Map02 and so on. Then it could be optional to add stuff at the end of your map that suggests the following map.

For example, I have a starting room for my map. I could take the final room for my previous map and try to make something like it to be seen through a window. Rocket would do the same with my map and then, I could even add an outside view of Rocket´s building at the end of my map.

[Nuxius]

"All Hell maps end with a portal. The portal could have the transparent image of the next map on it".
Just the portal is good enough.

Maybe we can do something like Erik did for Scythe 2 (just for the hell maps here though). All of us who are making hell maps can decide on a portal texture to use, and then when the player starts any of our maps, they are in front of the portal, and when they finish one, they step through a portal. Look at Scythe 2 if you're confused about this.

[Danimetal]

I liked the idea of having an image of the next map on the portal itself... Heh, it was like having a portal (we could use some Hexen-like ones) and then a 260 linetype with a screenshot of what´s beyond it... Don´t you think it could do a nice effect?.

[FATAL]

I liked the idea of having an image of the next map on the portal itself... Heh, it was like having a portal (we could use some Hexen-like ones) and then a 260 linetype with a screenshot of what´s beyond it... Don´t you think it could do a nice effect?.
A difficult effect.

I don't really agree with having a teleport to end every hell map. Especially because I have one, and it doesn't fit. I mean, the player gets to a stronghold only to teleport out of there.

[Nuxius]

Well maybe the stronghold is there to guard the teleport. :p ;)

O.K., anywho, since you don't like that idea for the hell maps, do you have a better one? I'm all ears. ;)

[Danimetal]

A difficult effect
I don´t see it that difficult, just take an screenshot of the beginning of the next map, put it into a texture and then apply it to a linedef with 260 set... About the stronghold, I think you should take into consideration the use that Nuxius suggested: role playing games are a nice example of that :P.

Errrr there's one little problem I just thought of. If one of the other guys fails to finish thier map you could end up making somethin for nothing.
Then, the new guy who arrives is forced to use that parts for his map XD!.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I can tell you that MAP06 will start of in a cavern and work its way into a demon infested warehouse. Then it will end in a teleporter. *diablo*

Sounds good, I'll just start my map with a teleporter.

[Doom_Dude]

My map ends with everything crushed! CRUSHED!

[Dutch Devil]

My map ends with everything crushed! CRUSHED!
Not the player I hope :)

[PumpkinSmasher]

My map ends with everything crushed! CRUSHED!
Do I sense a Ghost bug occuring in your map?

[FATAL]

Well maybe the stronghold is there to guard the teleport. :p ;)

O.K., anywho, since you don't like that idea for the hell maps, do you have a better one? I'm all ears. ;)
The people demand switches!

[Danimetal]

Yeah, they demand to switch you off :D. Now serious, I guess we should find some agreement before we finish our maps.

[MR_ROCKET]

As is, I have an optional exit switch in my map. one is a normal exit switch, the other activates 3 crushers of barrels out bound of the map and the boss brain/Romeros head on a stick is under one of the crushers with barrels surrounding. Both switch's exit and goto next level, but one you hear a 3 stage explosion with a final yell. ;) making it so it seems you'v killed that creepy intestinal slime thats been spreading/infesting it's self through out the base.
It's only map04 and seemed like more of a hell type exit, so I'm not sure if I'll keep it.

[The Lost Soul]

I'd like to see how the user doing map 20 starts their map so I know how to edit the ending of mine to flow..

and will give a screeny of the start to mine to whoever's doing map 18 (once I re-texture it) so they can do the same.

[MR_ROCKET]

Post a shot of your map in the progress shots thread so whoever's doing the other surrounding maps will have an idea also, just in case they haven't started on they're map yet.

[Grazza]

My map ends with everything crushed! CRUSHED!From a continuity viewpoint, it would be great if the map following that were called Flatland (http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/). :)

In Eternal, they often had a little preview of the next map at the end of the previous one - essentially a duplicate of the start of the next map that you can see but can't enter (e.g. because there is an exit linedef in the way). Maybe that wouldn't be so easy to arrange for a community project (as opposed to a more tightly organized team project, as Eternal was), but it would be possible to do this once all the maps were in.

[Dutch Devil]

Mine will have an small exit room with an switch, the classic type of exiting an map :)

[Macro11_1]

Hey Dutch Devil and danimetal, you two are my beginning and end *bow* XD....

Anyways, Could you guys email me some screenshots (or perferably, just the map)

Because it would just be easyer for me to make a joint between your two levels. Why? Because I am planning on making mine a "Detour" of sorts. You start out in a room, with a monster between you and the exit. You can chose to fight the monster, or to go through the level and telefrag the monster in the end. Since its the second level I DO belive the player will be forced to play the level. Its just something interesting I thought up.... Im mapping it now, so ill post screenshots somewhere later and link here. (probably in the screenshots thread)
btw, my level has most of the layout done, it is just awaiting me to go and do the detailing and gameplay.

[Danimetal]

I could but... Dutch is 01 and I am 04. It´s hard that you´re both 03 and 02 :).

[FATAL]

Hey Dutch Devil and danimetal, you two are my beginning and end *bow* XD....

Anyways, Could you guys email me some screenshots (or perferably, just the map)

Because it would just be easyer for me to make a joint between your two levels. Why? Because I am planning on making mine a "Detour" of sorts. You start out in a room, with a monster between you and the exit. You can chose to fight the monster, or to go through the level and telefrag the monster in the end. Since its the second level I DO belive the player will be forced to play the level. Its just something interesting I thought up.... Im mapping it now, so ill post screenshots somewhere later and link here. (probably in the screenshots thread)
btw, my level has most of the layout done, it is just awaiting me to go and do the detailing and gameplay.
The idea sounds really neat. Just make sure that the player isn't able to lure the monster out of its place.

[MR_ROCKET]

Dani have we already switched slots? I haven't heard anything final on that yet, but it should be fine. Although The skill level of my map might be a little tough for a map03, the par should still be rather quick. around 5-6 mins.
Maybe we, all 4 of us should work together in an irc channel or something, seems how none of us are at a finishing point in our maps yet.
I'm still map04 as far as I know heh, but again I have no problem switching to 03. :)

[Danimetal]

Oh, it´s me the dude on O3??. I never knew XD!!!. I don´t know if we´ve switched slots or anything but I can send you another copy of my map so you can navigate around and consider switching them or something (in case you´re convinced it would be the best thing to do).

About getting online, first thing to do would be to trade mail adresses so we can mail our maps to each other. Something tells me that we really should upload our maps zipped (with password) to some site that PumpkinSmasher could give us so anyone in the project could have access to other people´s works. Then we could update on a weekly basis and follow the evolution of the project :).

[MR_ROCKET]

Maybe we could use the Player Connector? and just password a room. well depending on our time zones though.

[Danimetal]

Mine is GMT+1. This means it´s 19:29 here right now. What do we exactly need to talk about :P?.

[Dutch Devil]

Hey Dutch Devil and danimetal, you two are my beginning and end *bow* XD....

Anyways, Could you guys email me some screenshots (or perferably, just the map)
My exit is still deep inside my brain, that means I still have to make it.
I can email you the map but it doesn't have an exit yet.

[MR_ROCKET]

@dani, um duh our maps and stuff and how cool they are ;)
Kidding, well sorta, to talk about our maps and at the same time look at them.
But yeah I suppose your right, between time zones, the forum, email and pm's those should be good enough..besides, Play Connector has not any prboom support right now, though it has legacy which makes for a good tester as well.

[Danimetal]

I couldn´t use Legacy due to the usage of Vodoo Dolls... Damn me and my self-pimping dark side :(.

[Falci]

Anyone doing maps 04 and 06, don't worry about me. Just start or end your map with a Standard Doom tech door in it... because that's how may map is going to start and end

[Macro11_1]

My exit is still deep inside my brain, that means I still have to make it.
I can email you the map but it doesn't have an exit yet.


Allright just Email me @ Macro11_1@hotmail.com or aternativly macro111@gmail.com

*thumbs*

Also @ Danimetal, that goes for you too :)

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah was wondering where you ran off to Falci, heh.
White, tan ,or green 128x128 tech door?

And yeah, Macro will hunt me down so theres no need for me to email him . ;)

[Danimetal]

Well Macro, though it´s not clear where exactly my map goes, I´ll mail you my map from my email adress. The name of the sender will be "The Marlboro Man" so you don´t miss it :).

[Falci]

Yeah was wondering where you ran off to Falci, heh.
White, tan ,or green 128x128 tech door?

And yeah, Macro will hunt me down so theres no need for me to email him . ;)

I ran of to another state... but I'm back now. *wacky*

Get a green tint for your door kiddo!

[MR_ROCKET]

Ok cool Falci..
Wow I haven't been called a kiddo for a long time heh
Could you post up a screenshot if you'v gotten to one of those parts yet?

[Dutch Devil]

Allright just Email me
Ok cool ill send you the updated version with new music and some added rooms :)

[Falci]

Ok cool Falci..
Wow I haven't been called a kiddo for a long time heh
Could you post up a screenshot if you'v gotten to one of those parts yet?


Right now I'm still crawling with the ideas... I'll put them properlly in a decent map as soon as I reload my buggy c:\ ...

Right now I've done a room only... the start room...

[MR_ROCKET]

Aight, I'll be making the beginning of my level with BROWN1 and ending it with the green nukage type textures and of course a big green door.
Dani's using mostly BROWN1 and your using mostly nukage type stuff as far as I know.

I still need to fix up my ending areas as well, so let me know if anything changes ;)