NDCP Done!!

[Xtife]

it is finally done and over with!! :) it was a long 2-3 years, it might not have gone as smoothly or turned out as good as i had hoped in the beginning, but at least we were all able to complete all 32 maps and release it at all :) not saying people didn’t do a good job, just think we shoulda had this done ages ago. but we had alot of people come and go and that made it hard

id like to personally thank everyone who was involved in the production of the NDCP
i would like to especially thank doom_dude, who took over for me after i left
no doubt it was stressful for him getting everyone together and made sure they all had maps finished and tested before the end date. he proved to be a much better leader then me in the end

i regret not being able to contribute anything, i had a map on the go but i didn’t finish it quite in time. though my name is still in the credits for some reason :p

i hope we get a great review in next weeks newstuff!! :) and possibly the mordeth reward at the end of the year haha

[Doom_Dude]

It was your idea for us to start it so you deserve credit. Maybe you get a map done for NDCP 2 or 3 or something. ;)

[g6672D]

NDCP was worth the wait! Thankfully, I only found out about it two months ago. Else I'd be in a wretched state. :) Congratulations to all the persistent ones who made it possible.

If only it weren't so difficult to complete...

And it's also opened my eyes to the greatness of ZDoom too.

[Aliotroph?]

It's true that it's no walk in the park. I was beta testing it and I haven't even completed the whole thing. :D

[Sarhento_T]

This may seem foolish, but what again is the url of NDCP, I get to visit it before but forget it and failed to bookmark it, what's the url again. BTW to all those who contributed to this project, well done guys, mission accomplished...

[Doom_Dude]

here it is
http://megawad.newdoom.com/ndcp.shtml

[Dutch Devil]

If there is going to be an NDCP2 project, count me in for one map ;)
Downgrabbed the NDCP megawad last weekend had an quick peek at map01 and the first part from map02, looking great so far.

[FATAL]

You should take a peek at map07 first!

[Doom_Dude]

If there is going to be an NDCP2 project, count me in for one map ;)
Downgrabbed the NDCP megawad last weekend had an quick peek at map01 and the first part from map02, looking great so far. But it was only released yesterday. Glad you liked map01 even if you only peeked at it. I don't know if there will be a NDCP 2 .

[Dutch Devil]

Thats your map right I have read it in the text file, why do you ask are you not happy with the end result.
Just took an quick look at it in doombuilder it looks nice, still have to play that map though.
But it was only released yesterday. Glad you liked map01 even if you only peeked at it. I don't know if there will be a NDCP 2 .
Well actually I have played your map yesterday DD on skill 3, and it looked pretty good very spacey.
it was very easy though but thats ok, map02 looked nice but it had a lot of copy and paste in it which bothered me a bit.
[edit] I meant this weekend yesterday to be precise :)

[Doom_Dude]

No I'm happy with my map. Just at this point after a release you wonder if anybody else likes what you made.

...and Duh! I had it in my mind yesterday was Monday so I was confused when you said you got it on the weekend. I need to get away and take a vacation. :P

[Aliotroph?]

Well actually I have played your map yesterday DD on skill 3, and it looked pretty good very spacey.
it was very easy though but thats ok, map02 looked nice but it had a lot of copy and paste in it which bothered me a bit.

Of course DD's map was easy. He built it as an entry map. :p

Mystic builds very simmetrical maps all the time. Map02 started as a Legacy map that was quite a bit more complex and became what you saw. His stuff works nicely for large DM games, although it does get repetitive in SP.

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah plus my map is a bit harder on UV.

[PumpkinSmasher]

My maps are very old, i'm slightly displeased with them, but o well.

I will probably contribute something if there is an NDCP2

[FATAL]

Aww craps. Seems like some people don't like my map at doomworld.

Screw them. I like my map. Bet they rate the wads by detail.

[Xtife]

if there is an ndcp2, it will be alot more originized then the first, and we should make sure of that at the beginning

[Danimetal]

Aww craps. Seems like some people don't like my map at doomworld.

Screw them. I like my map. Bet they rate the wads by detail.
And what did they think about mine´s *dark* ?.
Anyway, I´m playing it and I´m into map03. Map 01 was a nice surprise, map02 was a bit confusing and Map03 is really, really, really good!... As I play I´m reviewing each level so there will be, at least, one review for it :D.

[Doom_Dude]

Aww craps. Seems like some people don't like my map at doomworld.

Screw them. I like my map. Bet they rate the wads by detail. Some people don't like my map(s) either but that's the way it goes.

[Danimetal]

Some people don't like my map(s) either but that's the way it goes.
Indeed :). But hey, it surely happens inside this project, I mean, not everybody outside is gonna like our maps
"I've skipped map19 as it just screamed 'obligatory overdetailed map with annoying gameplay'."
but it also can happen that I don´t like certain map in the pack (for example, No Brakes is there and I expected much more from it) even having mapped for it. In the end, there are a lot of tastes out there and you can find as much opinions as persons.

Still I think that part of the criticism I´ve read about NDCP is not accurate or solid but it´s too soon to decide whether NDCP is brilliant or not :P.

[Doom_Dude]

There's one thing I never understood and this isn't aimed at anybody or any group. I don't get why a map is considered not worthplaying or not any good just because it's easy to medium play, yet the map has nice design and is apparent the author put a lot of effort into it. Why does a level have to be super-hard to be enjoyable? I like playing a variety of maps and many a time I've played an easy level that had nice design with interesting texture use and liked it a lot. I guess it just comes down to everybody is different, has diff views and stuff.

[Danimetal]

To my taste, maps like map03 are great maps. They´re fun, they don´t go into excessive and ultra hard battles and have a nice look (warm old Episode 1 feel in map03...). Difficult maps like map04 I don´t enjoy that much (but I´ll be honest with Frades, so far I only tried once and died in some conglomeration of monsters. My opinion may change when I complete it). That´s in one hand.

In the other hand I understand that hardcore players that know all the tricks and master Doom, demand ultra-hard levels that face them with a challenge. Most of the time I find this gameplay annoying (considering I don´t like to save or load) and completely out of place but there are tastes for everyone.

[Doom_Dude]

I liked both map03 and map04 equally and I had great fun playing them. :)

[Jive]

There's one thing I never understood and this isn't aimed at anybody or any group. I don't get why a map is considered not worthplaying or not any good just because it's easy to medium play, yet the map has nice design and is apparent the author put a lot of effort into it. Why does a level have to be super-hard to be enjoyable? I like playing a variety of maps and many a time I've played an easy level that had nice design with interesting texture use and liked it a lot. I guess it just comes down to everybody is different, has diff views and stuff.
Well said!!!
Those bad comments were made by big heads... I read all the comments, and I opened large eyes by reading some of them, which are quite simply unacceptable. One does not say to somebody who did a work to give pleasure free, that what he made is bad!!! (the bad comments are much harder than that!!!)
I know well that it is necessary that everyone is expressed, but sometimes, I regret it…
And then it is necessary to be quite conscious that some feel a large push of adrenalin to criticize the work of the others negatively, whereas they are not able of nothing by themselves!!!

Anyway, thank you a lot by advance for the pleasure that I will have to play it, and for all the hard work made by you during a so long time!!! *bow*

[i dont use iddqd]

if there is an ndcp2, it will be alot more originized then the first, and we should make sure of that at the beginning

if there is i want in lol :D

[iori]

I wouldn't quote stuff cross-forum Dani, it's bad news.

Ultimately everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and as long as you are satisfied with your map, the more power to you. Just take everything with a large grain of salt.

[shtbag667]

If there is a ndcp2 and you guys need music I can help. I might be able to map and do some textures and skies and stuff if that kind of help is required. I'm a jack of all trades.

Anyways, don't listen to negative comments. I think some people just use forums as a scapegoat because they know they'll never meet the people they criticize in real life.

[Aliotroph?]

Heh, I get pissed off by maps that are super hard. Try dying a few times on Lutrov's maps and see what I mean! ;)

Fatal's map has some neat areas. I like the part where you jump down the shaft and go sneaking. My main complaint about it is it looks like he didn't even try to align the textures. :p Fatal also has a pleasant grasp of how lighting works.

I didn't think DD's map was very hard on UV, but I'm used to how he builds maps. I switched my keys around for the first time in 10 years and now I can strafe circles around imps like nobody's business!

Map19 is pretty damn hard. It's also very shiny and much prettier than the one I had going would have been.

Map03 was pretty too. Only thing bothering me about it is the number of textures that escaped aligning. That felt odd, because some of the stuff had complex alignment.

Lots of the maps are loads of fun, although they can get nasty hard on UV (that should count towards certain un-named people liking it more).

[doomjedi]

how about such NDCP project for Skulltag? CTF maps, deathmatch...

[Xtife]

the point of ndcp was making it so everyone could enjoy it
and those who used certin ports would not be left out

which is why gzdoom is great :) zdoom + legacy cant go wrong

[doomjedi]

I like the NDCP maps. Much better than of original Doom.
I give the maps 10 out of 10.

BTW skulltag is just a modified Zdoom, so it's not that much difference, especially in level design

[FATAL]

Fatal's map has some neat areas. I like the part where you jump down the shaft and go sneaking. My main complaint about it is it looks like he didn't even try to align the textures. :p Fatal also has a pleasant grasp of how lighting works.
I forgot only THREE WALLS after the shaft! I'm amazed that you even found them. It's supposed to be dark around there. :p

Or do you mean the textures around the switches? Those I didn't have the know how on how to fix them, and when I did, I had it up to here with mapping, so I didn't bother to fix them.


I've yet to play ndcp for some reason. I should try it out soon, so I'll see if the complaints have any base whatsoever.

[Doom_Dude]

I didn't think DD's map was very hard on UV, but I'm used to how he builds maps. I switched my keys around for the first time in 10 years and now I can strafe circles around imps like nobody's business! I don't like putting Baron and Viles and hard traps in map01 so I didn't and I also don't care for putting all the monster types in one room (Im just rambling here as I just woke up not too long ago). That map was meant to b easy-ish anyhow. I wanted to make an entry level that looked nice that wasn't very hard. I thought if I made it super hard it would turn off some players with it being the first map and all. If you play map 25 to the point where yo meet the caco's things should be harder but I have no idea if anybody liked my part of that map since nobody's said anything. Also my parts of map 31 should be harder... but whatever. I try to mix it up anyhow as I like to make a hard map, then an easy map or a map that starts easy then gets harder or just have an easy map that has some hard fights. At least thats what I'm doing with my current maps. It's hard to judge the difficulty tho as I tend to build more than I play other people maps. I'm currently getting better at making harder maps tho (at least I think) as my earlier releases like Vilecore were just learning to design and I've not released a lot since then.

If there is a ndcp2 and you guys need music I can help. I might be able to map and do some textures and skies and stuff if that kind of help is required. I'm a jack of all trades.

Anyways, don't listen to negative comments. I think some people just use forums as a scapegoat because they know they'll never meet the people they criticize in real life. I don't know about a NDCP 2. LOL. One moment I want to start getting it organised and the next I want to hide. :P Thanks for the offer and we may need you yet. ;)

[FATAL]

I think that it's better to have a map that's too easy than a map that's too hard.

[Danimetal]

I wouldn't quote stuff cross-forum Dani, it's bad news.
Copy that. Now that I think about it, it´s a bad idea since they can´t read what I wrote here... I didn´t intend to offend anyone, just to offer an example but nobody posted in this forums that this particular map sucked a lot or something so I had to refer to another sources. Of course, I´m not mad about it or anything like that: I perfectly know that the map the quote refers to is far from perfect and has big flaws as much as I know that it can hold good things too.
I think that it's better to have a map that's too easy than a map that's too hard.
I´m not entirely sure that I agree with that. When I map is too easy for me I just feel like I´m doing a walk around and not having much fun: I prefer maps that are balance and have a flow and contrast between easy, medium and hard areas. That said, I think that it´s better to have a balanced map that a map that´s too hard.

[Doom_Dude]

I´m not entirely sure that I agree with that. When I map is too easy for me I just feel like I´m doing a walk around and not having much fun: I prefer maps that are balance and have a flow and contrast between easy, medium and hard areas. That said, I think that it´s better to have a balanced map that a map that´s too hard. What if it's a really nice looking map tho? Also what if it's the first map of an episode and the next levels each get harder as you progress? ;)

[doomjedi]

I think that it's better to have a map that's too easy than a map that's too hard.

Agree. If it's too easy for you you can always play it not using stronger weapons, or without letting you health getting below 50 (/100...whatever)...but with hard maps you can only cheat which is not cool.

Generally some design notes - I think those bases were used by humans before the whatever happenad, so I'm expect to see some chairs, sofas, tables and some more familliar structures, that are not too hard to implement even with doom engine limitations.

Another thing - why not to make pickups that are on the walls - behind doors? (like in Build games) - you open "door" and pick the pcikups...
I'd also like to see more of texture variantions, with cooler/animated computer screens and whatever...those are very not hard to create.
And another thing - darker versions of some common floor textures could make some nice Build engine style shadow effects :)

[Danimetal]

What if it's a really nice looking map tho? Also what if it's the first map of an episode and the next levels each get harder as you progress?
In that case I can always eat my words and bow before the creator of such a magnificient map set ;).
As for new textures and such, there are lots of resources in sites like "The AfterGlow" and then there´s the "Animated lump" in most ports (or tricks to have a lot of animated textures) that should be enough to make a map come alive. As far as I´m concerned, it happens to me that most times I´m just too lazy to create new textures that may work.

[Doom_Dude]

I just did some news on The Afterglow. :P

As for animated textures. In V2 I replaced the existing ones with larger 128 x 256's and I put all the liquids on one and have comp panels on anouther. :D

[PumpkinSmasher]

From the maps i've played (I haven't finished the NDCP yet) The NDCP overall is great. This is a community project, so it has its faults, but it looks like the authors hae put a lot of effort into this and have for the most part suceeded. Everyone has their own tastes in maps, and so everyone will get good reviews and bad reviews. I'm just glad this thing has finally been released. So far I've heard 1 good comment about my map16, and I haven't heard anything about my map21.

[doomjedi]

Let me get that far, hah...I'm still stuck on much earlier level :) :)

[g6672D]

NDCP2! The sequel to the original NewDoom Community Project. All you could ask for in Doom. Premiers on January 1 2009! :D

[Doom_Dude]

3 more years of development!!!!!! Aeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..... .

*hides in bushes*

[PumpkinSmasher]

3 more years of development!!!!!!
Yea you're right, NDCP2 would take much longer. Lets shoot for 2012

[Danimetal]

I say let´s do it and count me in :). Maybe, when some time has passed we could start discussing about starting another project, the features (Boom... Boom features please!!!) and a believable deadline ;).

[doomjedi]

maybe this time it can be Heretic or Hexen NDCP?

[FATAL]

I don't think that's a smart idea. People are used to doom mapping. Besides, not everyone has Hexen or Heretic, and not everyone is willing to pirate them.

Like danimetal, I think that a break is needed. A month or two should come in hand.

[doomjedi]

Map 06 is kind of weird with what seem to be a mapping bugs...at least on Zdoom...Was that intended?

And about heretic or hexen - I think everybody have it, but not everybody want's to admit it...come on, this "I'll only buy it" policy is sooo lame (about oldies, not new games). Epecially when I'm sure everybody have got it. COME ON! They made ton's on money out of those games, It's most crazy to me in 2006 people still are ashamed to admit they all have a full version, whatever it's source is. What do you want - me going in 2006 buying Heretic? And then straight going to crazy house? Poor ID, I think they didn't earn enouph money on Doom, I think I'm gonna cry here...Or should I buy Commander Keen? Tell me a nick of one gamer who can say they have no "pirated" copy of no game on their comp (especially meaning old games that nobody would buy those days). Sorry for being the only honest person on those forums. Really sorry.

[Doom_Dude]

I don't think anybody is ashamed of owning Heretic or HeXen. Getting enough Heretic / HeXen mappers together would be hard. Most people around here, that make maps prefer making levels for Doom.

As for pirated games, we don't talk about those on here just like any other legit forums because we don't need any gaming companies wanting to shut us down because we allow people to discuss, trade and show where and how to get warez. People who insist on doing so get themselves in trouble......

[Falci]

AS DD said, Doom Jedi, the problem isn't having pirated stuff... is talking about them here.

I like to buy the greater part of my stuff. But somethings are just impossibleto me to have in a legal way for one reason or another.

Now enough of this discussion!!! Back to what REALLY matters! NDCP!!!

And, if there's really going to be a NDCP2 (or NDCP: Ressurrection of the Evil idea) I MUST have a map in it!!! GAH!!!

[iori]

Map 06 is kind of weird with what seem to be a mapping bugs...at least on Zdoom...Was that intended?
eh? I mainly tested it with zdoom

[PumpkinSmasher]

Well there was the NDCP Legacy idea, which i think could work quite well. If anyone is interested in that.

[Danimetal]

I don´t think that it would be a good idea to make it Legacy only (and don´t start talking about GZDoom compatibility here :P); it would belong more in the Legacy forums as a Legacy specific project... You know, once I took part in a Legacy Coop only megawad (Mr.Rocket invited me, or something like that...) and there´s wasn´t actually a lot of movement on it. I must have my map lying out somewhere in my Hard Drive.

On the other hand, I keep on thinking that Boom is accessible and cool... O.k, JDoom doesn´t support Boom and that leaves out a portion of potential players but I would take the time to discuss it.

Edit: Finally finished Frade´s "Shotfun" (Map 04). Quite hard for me!.

[i dont use iddqd]

maybe this time it can be Heretic or Hexen NDCP?

i would prefer it be for r3d, because after the new release -- it will have slopes and more... so i personally think we should do a r3d ndcp next, but i do agree lets give it a few months

[MR_ROCKET]

You know, once I took part in a Legacy Coop only megawad (Mr.Rocket invited me, or something like that...) and there´s wasn´t actually a lot of movement on it. I must have my map lying out somewhere in my Hard Drive.
Yeah It's a shame that project died like it did, sometimes it's just hard to find people that are dedicated to something or even know what it means to be heh. I think the purpose is still very possible, but not as a closed group meeting place like that one was, because in the end it was like the only ones that cared about the project were me and you. I imagine I still have your map on cd somewhere too.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Well I'd be willing to lead and/or participate in the next NDCP project, but i think we should try to agree on what we want out of it. Should we go with a big port and go for compatibility. I would like to see it start soon but that depends on what others want.

[Doom_Dude]

I've decided I don't want to lead or be a part of anouther community project for awhile at least. I want to get my main project, Vilecore II finished before I do anything else. I also have three other projects on the go, Shadowcore (Heretic Legacy), Stalking Evil (Doom Legacy) and an untitled project of small maps for any Limit-Removing port. So I'm gonna be busy with that stuff for sure. I'm just kinda tired right now of the community thing. :P

[Jive]

I'm just kinda tired right nowI always thought that you're just a lazzy guy!!! *wacky*

[DarkWolf]

It doesn't make sense to start a Legacy project until 2.0 comes out. As far as another "vanilla" NDCP, I won't be taking part in that. But good luck to those that do. I might suggest only taking finished maps to fill map spots next time.

evij si eman ym lol

[Doom_Dude]

I always thought that you're just a lazzy guy!!! *wacky* Stop interupting my sleep. :P *zzz*

[Danimetal]

Agreed in the v2.0 but, again, I think that a Legacy project is something too focused in a source port and, thus, should bear a name like "NewDoom Legacy Project"... Besides, I assume that not everybody would like to use Legacy. I´d try something that could reach a lot more of people (as said, Vanilla or Boom)

[iori]

Unless it's BooM only, I won't be a part of it. Also there would have to be a large marjority of known mappers to contribute. Not to sound pompous, but IMO a community project should at least be 'good' overall, not just be a project that showcases people's test maps because they want to be a part of something. Harsh, I know, but it's true.

'Specialty' ports are reserved for specialty projects for me.

[Aliotroph?]

Agreed on the BooM issue. The other part, not so much although I can understand your reason.

[Danimetal]

About that other part you´re talking about... Well, there´s only 32 maps and a question: does the community want the best maps or the first mappers to sign out?. A possible solution would be that everybody that wants a place in the project signs up and makes the map resulting on more than 32 maps... Community votations are made until 32 maps remain: then they´re sorted by some kind of criteria and there we go.

The maps that didn´t make it could always be released as "NDCP leftover maps". It would be a messy process but could work and would give a chance to everybody.

[Doom_Dude]

Here are some of my points of interest.

Don't let any one person take more than one slot at a time.
Do get mappers who sign up to provide a working email address.
Do assume anybody not showing any sign of life to be gone after a certain period of time. Say a month or so... and if they're taking up a slot somebody else could use then give them the drop. If they come back they can have a new slot if one opens up. Be sure thats in the rules tho. You go away without telling us why and don't answer PM's and emails for a Month then we assume a Yeti ate you and your family. :p
Do mention in the rules that people should'nt take on a map if they're so busy that they have a better chance of meeting Elvis than making a room let alone a level, to not bother. It's a waste of time to have a slot taken and nothing is being done, when somebody else could be working for your project.
Don't make a deadline unless your 3 years in the making and need to get things wrapped up. :p

[PumpkinSmasher]

It would be nice to keep maps with a similar theme near eachother as well.

[doomjedi]

I think the maps aren't inventive enouph. Here I made some example *.map file for you (made in Build as it's more easy for me, using only features available in Doom engine mapping, no slopes etc...). Why not to use more of such designs in Doom?

http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/statue2.zip

[Danimetal]

Done with map05 now... I didn´t like that one much but I expect next one to be a rush!. So far the mapset plays really well and has nice touches of fun. Let´s see how does it end ;).

[ace]

More NDCP2 / NDLP talk, eh? Heh, I think if there were to be a second or rather a port-specific map, whoever would be to lead it would have to say "I'm leader", set rules, and start recruiting as soon as whenever they feel like starting it. Because apparently, Doom_Dude was the leader, then somehow I ended up being leader, and now PumpkinSmasher wants to be the leader, before one is even set up! :p

I'm out of it I think. If there were a second project, I'd chip in a map or possibly two even, but for sure I wouldn't lead. Too little time on my hands and too much other stuffs. And too little motivation to lead peoples. And procrastination.

[g6672D]

While BOOM support is probably OK (as there's quite a few that use it), other port-specific features are probably to be avoided. Else you might disappoint the jDoom fanboys. (OK. Too late. NDCP already did that. :D)

Even without new features (except limit-removing), the NDCP levels still look very professional.

[PumpkinSmasher]

So NDCP 2: something like this:

Maps must be for Doom 2.
All maps must be Boom-Compatible.
No new sprites or sounds.
New music is allowed.
New Textures and Flats are allowed (please send them so we can create a resource wad)
Give maps a moderate difficulty.
Any Style/Theme is allowed(I would like it if we kept maps with similar themese near eachother if thats possible).
Make maps fit all skill levels.
All maps need atleast 2 secrets.

Then we will have to decide whether we want secret maps or do it like we did with this NDCP.

[Doom_Dude]

Also might want to add that all maps should have coop starts.
Plus you could mention if they use Doom Builder to remove 3d start things when done.

*walks away whistling*

[PumpkinSmasher]

Good call DD.
I don't know who made all the textures drom the NDCP resource wad (I know you DD made a lot of them) and if they would mind, but I suppose people could use those textures in the NDCP 2 if they wished.

[Grazza]

A couple of little thoughts/comments:

The port landscape may well be totally different by the time this project (ndcp2) is completed. jDoom's current issues with a couple of the ndcp maps may well have been solved completely, for instance. What you can be pretty certain of is that there will be ports with Boom support, and that there will be ports with good OpenGL rendering (for those who prefer it) with decent support for "tricks", and that these groups of ports will probably intersect to a significant degree.

Secondly, might it be worth using a little bit of dehacked? If you're familiar with Erik Alm's Scythe2, you'll know that he used a dehacked patch to transform the SS Nazi and the Commander Keen into two full-blown monsters that didn't look out of place with the other Doom monsters and typical scenarios. Pretty much all your target exes support dehacked, and it gives the mappers a couple of extra monsters to play with (but nothing else changed). Just a thought.

[Danimetal]

I never got to understand Dehacked completely and maybe you can enlighten me here, Grazza... I read something about changing the states for objects you could make new monsters (like turning lamps into imps). Decorate does render that obsolete but a little knowledge is never to be refused ;) so, how does that work?.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I would enjoy to adding 1 or 2 extra monsters to the second community project. The SS Nazi would easily be conveted with just new sprite drawings. I don't know how to convert Keen to a full monster but if anyone in the project could it would be very nice.
I guess I'll wait and make sure I have everything in line for the second NDCP, and then I'll start sign-ups. Please continue any discussion about ideas for the NDCP 2, any input for the project would be great.

[DooMAD]

I did start a map for NDLP, but that was when we had planned on the inclusion of deathmatch maps. If it's not deathmatch and not Legacy, I guess I'm a bit screwed, heh.

[PumpkinSmasher]

I would enjoy an NDLP, but it didn't seem to be very popular in this thread.
I do like the idea of having DM maps included. I guess if we did that we could have a certain number of SP maps and a certain number of DM maps or have 2 different .wad files.

[Doom_Dude]

Maybe going for a smaller project would be wise as well, unless a lot of help shows up. Something like 10 SP maps and 8 MP or something might be a good idea.

I never got to understand Dehacked completely and maybe you can enlighten me here, Grazza... I read something about changing the states for objects you could make new monsters (like turning lamps into imps). Decorate does render that obsolete but a little knowledge is never to be refused so, how does that work?. I'm not all that good at dehacked / WhackED yet, however its fairly easy to make a tech column or a evil eye symbol and make it into a tougher Imp or a ghost caco. I think the main problem with dehacked and making new monsters is you can't make a new set of sprites and have the new Imp use those.... tho I could be wrong. But that is probably part of the reason why decorate was created, which is pretty damned tempting to start looking into. Maybe I should check out Sythe II? Sounds like Erik did some cool dehacked stuff that I missed out on...

[PumpkinSmasher]

I would like atleast 30 maps (The secret maps wouldn't hurt to be left off), but I wouldn't mind if we split it up somewhere maybe 2 episodes be SP and 1 episode be DM. We'll see what other people want and see how many people end up contributing to the project.

[Grazza]

I never got to understand Dehacked completely and maybe you can enlighten me here, Grazza... I read something about changing the states for objects you could make new monsters (like turning lamps into imps). Decorate does render that obsolete but a little knowledge is never to be refused ;) so, how does that work?.Enjay has a nice page about dehacked here (http://www.btinternet.com/~Enjay001/deh01.htm). (I'm sure that will be a lot more useful than me trying to pass on the one or two pieces of information I understand about this ;) .) Using decorate would make it a Zdoom-only project, so if you want to keep it Boom-compatible, then dehacked, or its extended Boom form BEX, is your only option.

A shortcut could be to use some pre-existing dehacked work that you like the look of (with the author's permission, obviously).

Scythe2 is absolutely worth checking out. It's an outstanding piece of work. If you want to take a look at the dehacked patch, you'll need to extract it from the wad.

For good examples of wads that have used dehacked to turn objects into monsters, and monsters into ambient sound objects, or just generally change the game in drastic ways, I can suggest the following:
Aliens TC; several versions - this (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=3269) one (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=3268) (both zips - u_alntc1.zip and u_alntc2.zip - needed) seems to work well with Ultimate Doom
Hacx (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=14031) (as one example from a great many in this TC, look at what has been done to the candle - Thing Number 100, ID # 34)
aotw (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=10984)
wotdoom3 (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=14032)
(Actually, I recently made a list of wads with significant dehacked work, so if anyone wants further examples, just ask...)

Of course changing, e.g., scenery items into monsters will mean that if someone wants to use that scenery item, they'll get a nasty surprise when they test their map if it has suddenly become a non-clipping cyberdemon (or whatever). So unless there is massive enthusiasm for a wad based around heavy dehacked work (probably not), I'd suggest just keeping it to the two most rarely-used monsters, or one or two other items that people know not to use for their standard purpose. Also, if you employ the more rarely-used dehacked functions, you could run into problems in some ports - bugs in dehacked support are unlikely to have been picked up if very few wads actually used those features. (Examples: Max Health, Monster Infighting, "Steps before attack".)

[Danimetal]

Great, thanks Grazza!. I knew about the Enjay site but never got to read it in depth. As for the wads, I think I know some of them but I´ll start with Scythe2 (I never got to play it in depth, as with the site).