Doom 2 Monsters in Doom

[Nurlok]

Hi everybody,

i've just had a nostalgic experience playing the first three episodes of Doom. It was nice, but I found it not hard enough, not even in fast mode, with reduced speed (turbo 60%) and in skill level ultra-violence. However, nightmare is not the right skill level to me - I don't like monsters respawning everywhere.
So, the idea of "importing" Doom 2 monsters in Doom came into my mind. I want to play the Doom maps with Doom 2 monsters in them. Could anybody tell me how that works?

I play Doom with zdoom and I set up parameters like -turbo or -file with the Windows XP command line. I don't have a wad-editor, but I have a map builder (Doom Builder by CodeImp), which at least enables me to save the structure of a Doom map as a Doom2 map. After that, I can insert Doom 2 monsters. However, if I do so and start the map with zdoom as a Doom2 map, there are textures missing (those, which only exist in Doom?).

[The Forgotten One]

Not alot is required for this. Copy doom1 and use doom 2 configuration, add the monsters, and play it as an extra map set with ultimate doom as the main wad (keep level numbers as E1M1, ect.). As far as textures, you'll either have to change them to doom2 textures or load them in with another wad editor, (I recommend XWE).

[FATAL]

What if the doom.wad would be loaded like a pwad? Would it work?

[Danimetal]

I don´t think the ExMx format of Doom is understood by Doom2 (with its mapxx format).

[Tchakkazulu]

Open DB with doom1.wad, external textures etc from doom1.wad (not sure if needed...)
save every level as a new one with the mapxx format.

Though this will spoil the forced pistol-starts of the ExM1 levels.

[The Forgotten One]

If you use doom2 as your main wad and add monsters (in doom2 configuration) to the levels of doom1, you don't need to use MAPxx format. I don't think it would work if you did. But you would probably have to load the textures in with an editor, I think. Or it might be ultimate doom with a copy of doom2. I'm not sure, I did it a long time ago.

[FATAL]

I don´t think the ExMx format of Doom is understood by Doom2 (with its mapxx format).
I didn't mean for the maps. The maps would be ignored for being in the wrong format. The textures, however, should be read correctly, right?

[The Forgotten One]

If at least one of the wads has the texures in it, then it will work.

[Nurlok]

Thank you very much for your help. However, I'm still trying.

"Not alot is required for this. Copy doom1 and use doom 2 configuration, add the monsters, and play it as an extra map set with ultimate doom as the main wad (keep level numbers as E1M1, ect.). As far as textures, you'll either have to change them to doom2 textures or load them in with another wad editor, (I recommend XWE)."

I followed those steps, but it doesn't work, supposedly because Doom2 monsters don't exist in the Ultimate Doom main wad. It doesn't help to insert them in the DoomBuilder. When I play the map, I only see a tag with an exclamation mark instead of a Doom2 monster.

"What if the doom.wad would be loaded like a pwad? Would it work?"

It didn't change anything.
I've tried d:\doom\zdoom.exe -pwad doom.wad -file test.wad in the command line and chose doom2.wad as the iwad when zdoom asked for it. The test.wad had been created before in Doom Builder by copying a part of the e1m1 map into Doom2 configuration. Still, when I started the map as described above, textures were missed, for example the Comp2 texture wasn't displayed in the map. Instead, there were grey and white squares.

"Open DB with doom1.wad, external textures etc from doom1.wad (not sure if needed...)
save every level as a new one with the mapxx format."
I'm not sure, but I think in DB the map is saved in the same format it was opened with. I can't tell DB to save the level in mapxx format.

"If you use doom2 as your main wad and add monsters (in doom2 configuration) to the levels of doom1, you don't need to use MAPxx format. I don't think it would work if you did. But you would probably have to load the textures in with an editor, I think. Or it might be ultimate doom with a copy of doom2. I'm not sure, I did it a long time ago."

It looks like there is no other way but to create an iwad that both contains the Doom2 monsters and all the Doom1 textures/flats (and obstacles?). I've just started to try that with XWE, as recommanded. But I haven't found out yet how to do it. Does anybody have some experience with XWE?

[The Forgotten One]

*uhh* It would work because one wad file has the monsters in it and runs it regardless of what another configuration (doom1) is. I'll try it now, but does work because I've done it before.

[The Forgotten One]

Uhhh, I couldn't figure it out, so I just remade all the doom1 levels in a doom2 wad. If you want I can email it to you.

[Nurlok]

Uhhh, I couldn't figure it out, so I just remade all the doom1 levels in a doom2 wad. If you want I can email it to you.

Thank you, it's not neccessary anymore. I've found out how to do it:

1. In DoomBuilder I open Doom.wad with the specified map, e.g. e1m1, in Doom2 configuration.
2. I insert Doom2 monsters.
3. I save the wad under a different name, e.g. test.wad.
4. In the Windows command line I run: D:\ .../zdoom.exe -doom2.wad -file doom.wad test.wad
Now I can play the e1m1 map with doom2 monsters in it.

The issue was, I didn't know you can specify more than one file behind the -file command.
Thank you again, your hints helped me to find this solution.

[Paladin30]

Hi,
I have the same problem, I'm unable to play doom1 with monsters from doom2. I do exactly what you say but the game crashes saying a swith panel is missing...

[rustyslacker]

Are you opening your IWAD and saving as a PWAD?

[Paladin30]

The problem is that I don't really know what is IWAD and PWAD...Is it simple to explain?

[The Forgotten One]

Umm, I reloaded all the doom levels into doom 2 and added monsters. It's pretty hard. I even fixed the level names for those of you who mind that sort of thing. I don't think the music is done though. I can send you the wad via email if you'd like.

[The Forgotten One]

Sorry 'bout the double post, but I sent you the map set I made. I don't think it came out how I wanted it too, but what the hell, no one's perfect are they? Enjoy.

[g6672D]

Doom 1.666 or over have all the neccessary EXE data to use the extra weapon and monsters. But not the graphics used by them. Unfortunately, distributing any IWAD data is not possible since the game's license agreement disallows it. Therefore, you can't just include the needed items in your own PWAD.

[The Forgotten One]

Wait, what? What do you mean? I can't post up wads that are Doom 2 with Doom maps?

[Danimetal]

Copyright and stuff. You know, Doom is still sold so it wouldn´t be legal at all to distribute its levels under any format.

[FATAL]

Don't listen to danimetal. He's a bum.

[Danimetal]

Don´t listen to people who say that other people are bums. Specially if they do it for no reason. They´re likely to be bums themselves. They´re also likely to abuse drugs and prostitution.

[Doom-Dork]

Have you noticed how FATAL and Danimetal sound like an old married couple

[rustyslacker]

Yeah. But I think FATAL sounds like the wife. :p

[Doom-Dork]

Yeah! danimetal wears the trousers.

[g6672D]

Oh shut up about those two. Still, I laughed about the "Is danimetal going to make it?" poll in the NDCP forum. :D

In regards to legal stuff, distribution of the data used by Doom/Doom2/Heretic/Hexen (graphics, sprites, sound, levels, other lumps, etc) is not allowed. But making Doom levels that have the Doom2 monsters is allowed. However, you still need the graphics for the monsters/weapons for them to work. And providing the original graphics isn't possible.

[Danimetal]

But I made it, heh... What happens is that Fatal is ashamed of himself when compared to me and stuff.

About copyrights, there´s a thin line of "permission" among authors when it comes to use resources from other games... For example, many authors use Hexen textures and sprites (or parts of them) in their wads. Those resources must have been extracted from somewhere but, in a sense, authors allow it. I don´t think that it´s cool with copyright laws but certainly there are many wads out there using those resources.

The levels... It would be different. If I understood what you meant, you want to take the original Doom (Doom 1, so to understand) maps and port them to Doom 2 (copy and paste...). Then you want to put Doom2 weapons and monsters in that file, is that right?. Well, everything should be legal except for everything related to Doom 1. If you took Doom 1 textures or levels it shouldn´t be legal. As said, textures are somewhat allowed but distributing the levels isn´t.

You can try some remakes anyway. They could come out cooler and would be more legal.

[Grazza]

One perfectly legal way to have a Doom2 pwad that uses (Ultimate) Doom graphics is to require the user to load doom.wad as a pwad in addition to the user-made pwad:

[exe] -iwad doom2.wad -file doom.wad mypwad.wad

That way your pwad doesn't need to include any of the textures from the Doom iwad. However, it does require the user to have both Doom and Doom2, but most Doomers have them both, so it's unlikely to be a problem.

Another thing you could do is have a program set up to make a copy of the user's doom.wad and edit this copy so that it will work under Doom2. This would involve changing the map names, etc. Then you're not actually distributing the modified iwad, just the instructions necessary to modify it. This is fiddly though, and can easily go wrong if errors are made. An example along these lines is The Heresy (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=12585). That project perhaps wasn't the greatest of ideas (converting Heretic maps to work in Doom2 has problems because the games are so different, not least because of the Wings of Wrath), but the basic method is sound.

It all sounds like a lot of effort for marginal rewards though.

[The Forgotten One]

Actually, that's very similar to what I did. I remade Doom to work under Doom 2. I had to add in a few textures though, and I added the weapons and monsters to it.
I hope I didn't violate any copyright. Did I?