Deaf monsters question

[Flame Spawn]

Why is it when I try to sneak up on a deaf monster (from behind the monster), they automatically wake up without me running into them or hurting them? I never figured that out.

[FATAL]

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing too. I couldn't make up a logical explanation by myself though.

[The Orichalcon]

maybe they can sense your presence.

[Flame Spawn]

Or maybe they have eyes on the back of their head.

[chainmail]

Yeah i noticed that aswell. I think they can smell your flesh.....

[ace]

They seem to notice you on approach from the behind whether deaf or not. IMO this is a really weird bug, because with me it doesn't seem to happen all of the time.

[rustyslacker]

weird huh?! :D

[Flame Spawn]

For me it only happens when the monsters have the deaf flag on. I wonder if there's something about it in the Doom source code.

[rustyslacker]

dude, flamespawn, the thread is called deaf monsters question. obviously the thread is about monsters with the deaf flag.

and after testing some of it out, i'm guessing that the "sight" extends in a certain distance in every direction of a monster, not just in the direction it faces, but i assume when it faces forward the sight extends much farther than from the sides and back, where it is short.

[Flame Spawn]

OK for some reason the monsters won't wake up when I approach them from behind. I created a test map to try this using Doom Builder 1.67.

[FATAL]

I know that I should be able to almost touch the demons from behind and not wake up. I remember doing it. This thing is totally random. In some places it works, in some places it doesn't.

[Grazza]

Presumably they wake up if your bounding box touches their bounding box (and thus the centre-to-centre distance varies depending on the orientation). You'd need to check the code to be certain though.

[FATAL]

Yes, I know they wake up when touched, but they shouldn't wake up when you show up behind them when coming behind a corner and such.

[Grazza]

You're saying that deaf monsters are waking up when you're a long way behind them? I presumed you meant that they were waking up when you were fairly close behind them, but further away than you'd normally expect to have to be to awaken them.

A demo would be useful if this is to be investigated.

[FATAL]

I can't think of any other examples other than my ndcp map, since I don't play much doom anymore. However, I think that I'm not allowed to send the maps and textures to everyone.

I can maybe explain it here:
The area consists of two different levels, and a rather round courtyard. Both these levels have windows to the courtyard, but it's impossible to see the other area from the windows. Now the player starts on the lower level, and from that level there is an elevator to the upper level. When the player reaches the upper level, he comes to a short hallway, and very soon it meets a corner. Now, when the player walks through, a sargeant sees the player even if he's facing a window pointing the courtyard. there is a difference of a bit more than 135 degrees between the player and the sargeant's direction. He isn't already awake, because he growls and is actually looking out of the window for a very short time before turning. Seems clearly like a bug. I know for sure that this happens in jdoom, but I suppose that port shouldn't matter in this case.

[Mazu]

i know only one thing that is odd about deaf monsters... if you fire your weapon long way away from the monster(behind corners and hallways), and there open way to location where monster is. Monster kinda heards you, but when you go to that area and apporach from behind. Monster will notice you(at any distance) since you fired your gun earlier.

When you fire... there is no doors or sound blocks in way to deaf monster

[Flame Spawn]

So it's sort of like the monster is activated when you fire, but it remains in the non-active state until you spot it. I don't know...

[Ajapted]

The code has a special check for a player directly behind a monster, distance is 64 units (center to center) so it won't apply for very large monsters.

Deaf monsters will "hear" a weapon fire, and wake up when there is a line-of-sight to the player (even when behind the monster). It's a bit weird, but that's how it works.

[FATAL]

Thanks for the explanation, now I know how to design my (future?) maps to work a bit better.