Dawn: A Prelude - Need Help!

[WinstonSmith6079]

I got Dawn: A Prelude, the prequel to The Darkest Hour. Wow! What a great WAD! I spent several hours immediately after d/ling it intending to finish it in one session.

Well I almost did! :) But I got stuck! :( Like, right very close to the end! *mad* Take a look at these pics I snapped at my stuck-point:...
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1085/doom00191dp.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5224/doom00203ve.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4338/doom00211ii.png (http://imageshack.us)
As you can see from the first two images, the path to leave the area (and also the path to the end of the game) is just beyond the top of the waterfalls. It sure seems to me too far to jump! You can also see on the left side of the first two pics that there is an area with a medikit. Of course this suggests that it's possible to be there and it is closer to the edge of the falls. There were some jawas there shooting but I killed 'em. That bunker-like object was auto-launching rockets but I turned them off so that I could pass (but I haven't yet :( ). I dunno how to get there either!

You can see most clearly in the third pic--the automap--that that area seems to connect with a room to the immediate west, but that's just a grated window that I can shoot through but can't walk through, AFAIK. You can also see that I've found two of three secrets. Maybe the Exit is reached via the third secret? Though I doubt one would need to find a secret just to exit a map!

It seems like I've covered about all of the map except for the final path that leads to the fortified palace of Quatto the Hutt, which, I guess, is the end of the WAD. I hate cheats! Cheats r lame and for lamers! ...Nonetheless--before posting all this here--I tried to make it show the whole automap to see what I might of missed. But dammit to hell! IDBEHOLDA doesn't work with ZDoom v2.0.63a, and I don't know the equivalent for ZDoom 63a! *mad**mad**mad*

Does anyone know this WAD? Does anyone know how to get outta here? ??? Please help, as I'm very close to the end after all those several many hours of playing up to this point!...

Otherwise, maybe you can try and do better! Get the WAD Dawn: A Prelude here (http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/darkpack.zip). It's one of those "ZDoom only" WADs. You need The Darkest Hour to run this. You can get that here (http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/darkhour.zip).

C'mon! For the Love of Humanity help me!

[Graf_Zahl]

Well, you have to jump up there. Sorry. It is doable but not easy.

[WinstonSmith6079]

Damn! You are right! Thx, man!

It was not easy; I fell short too damn many times! But I finally did it YAAAAYYY!

Now I'm gonna try The Darkest Hour just as soon as I can figure-out when I'm gonna play it among all the other WADs that I'm also playing hehehehehehe

BTW: The ZDoom equivalent for IDBEHOLDA is GIVE ALLMAP. :)

[Graf_Zahl]

IDBEHOLDA works as well. ;)

[ReX]

Well, you have to jump up there. Sorry. It is doable but not easy.
I just noticed this thread.

To get to the top of the waterfall you've first got to drain the two water tanks above the main tank, and raise the water level in the main tank. The switch to drain these tanks is in the nearby control room, and I assume that you've pressed the switch. {And yes, Winston, the area above the main tank is reachable by aiming for the ramps leading up to the smaller tanks, and jumping at the right time. This gives you the blue armor, and the third secret.)

The trick to making the jump to the top of the waterfall is to start at the opposite end of the main tank, use your jump key so that you are now mostly above the water, run towards the waterfall, and jump when you get to the end. (There is a small ledge that helps you with your jump.) It was not my intention to make the jump difficult, and perhaps with the version changes in ZDooM there has been a change to the jump height.

I know for a fact that Temple of the Ancients has a deep-water (deep-lava, actually) area that was jumpable in ZDooM v1.22 but is not jumpable in the newer versions.

I'm glad to know that you enjoyed Dawn: A Prelude.

[Graf_Zahl]

Isn't that a compelely different area? The tanks aren't nowhere near the end of the level. (And the waterfall you are describing only works due to a bug in ZDoom's jumping code. Normally it should never be possible.)

[WinstonSmith6079]

Speaking of bugs, as you can see from the 3d screenshot above, at that point I had killed 87 out of 90 hostiles. One of those remaining three is that three-eyed thing (a really, really big Star Wars fan might know what that kind of alien is called) that guards the opening beyond the top of the falls there, which I did kill after finally jumping up there.

The other two I couldn't kill or at least couldn't kill easily or normally if at all. They're in the water-tanks/control-room area that you refer to, ReX. The problem with me killing them can be seen in these pictures that I took.
http://anjbi.com/doom/WinstonSmith6079/DOOM0014.png
http://anjbi.com/doom/WinstonSmith6079/DOOM0015.png
http://anjbi.com/doom/WinstonSmith6079/DOOM0016.png
http://anjbi.com/doom/WinstonSmith6079/DOOM0017.png
They're stuck, imbedded in that connecting ledge of stone there!

I assume that this was not a problem in some earlier version of ZDoom, but I got this using v2.0.63 .

Oh, about the "blue" armor secret, if you're referring to the suit in that water-tank/control-room area, I got that and it regestered as a secret. It's one of the two secrets that I got. I don't remember what the other secret was that I got. :( If you want to tell me what all three of the secrets are, you can PM me about that (I guess that you don't want to put such spoliers openly here in this thread).

Thx, ReX! This is a great .WAD, among the best that I've played! As soon as I play The Darkest Hour through, I'm going to rate both of them at DoomWorld. I'm going to give this one, Dawn: A Prelude, 5 stars! I wanna check out your other works too! So what are they that I may d/l them? ???

[ReX]

Isn't that a compelely different area? The tanks aren't nowhere near the end of the level. (And the waterfall you are describing only works due to a bug in ZDoom's jumping code. Normally it should never be possible.)
You are quite right; the area that Winston is talking about is completely different. By the time I read this thread his screenshots were no longer up, and I completely misunderstood his problem.

What is the bug in ZDooM that makes the jump possible? The jump worked fine in V2.0.45 (and in v2.0.96), so I'm assuming that it hasn't been fixed since then (as Winston made the jump using v2.0.63)? Any ideas why the jump I was speaking about in Temple of The Ancients was possible in the version I developed it for (v1.22, I think) and not in the newer versions?

Also, earlier you replied to Winston: "Well, you have to jump up there. Sorry. It is doable but not easy." I agree that initially the jump is difficult, but once you figure out the correct angle, it's fine. The reason I wanted to have a jump with a running start at a slightly difficult angle there was that otherwise the player might be able to evade the rockets (or take some damage) and breeze on through. In retrospect, I wonder how I could achieve both objectives - require the player to deal with the cannons by switching them off (and not simply running through), and making the jump easier.

[ReX]

Speaking of bugs, as you can see from the 3d screenshot above, at that point I had killed 87 out of 90 hostiles. One of those remaining three is that three-eyed thing (a really, really big Star Wars fan might know what that kind of alien is called) that guards the opening beyond the top of the falls there, which I did kill after finally jumping up there.

The other two I couldn't kill or at least couldn't kill easily or normally if at all. They're in the water-tanks/control-room area that you refer to, ReX. The problem with me killing them can be seen in these pictures that I took...... They're stuck, imbedded in that connecting ledge of stone there!

I assume that this was not a problem in some earlier version of ZDoom, but I got this using v2.0.63 .

Oh, about the "blue" armor secret, if you're referring to the suit in that water-tank/control-room area, I got that and it regestered as a secret. It's one of the two secrets that I got. I don't remember what the other secret was that I got. :( If you want to tell me what all three of the secrets are, you can PM me about that (I guess that you don't want to put such spoliers openly here in this thread).

Thx, ReX! This is a great .WAD, among the best that I've played! As soon as I play The Darkest Hour through, I'm going to rate both of them at DoomWorld. I'm going to give this one, Dawn: A Prelude, 5 stars! I wanna check out your other works too! So what are they that I may d/l them? ???
1. The problem with the enemies seeming to fall into the ground (and yet remain visible) is usually because of improper node-building. Apparently, small 'cracks' are created when the nodes are not built properly, and when enemies step on them they fall through. This is annoying not only because of the visual aspect, but also because they prevent 100% kills. I believe it can be prevented by having ZDooM do a forced node re-build.
2. The reptilian creatures you're referring to (and which are in your screenshots) are called Trandoshans. Just allow yourself to be killed by one of them and the obituary will give you their name. The three-eyed creature is actually a differemt enemy known as a Gran.
3. The other two secrets are as follows - in the water tank area where the blue armor is found (one of the three secrets), you need to go into the control room to press the switch to raise the water level. In that control room is a computer panel on the South-East wall (to your right when you enter the room). There is a very slightly recessed door panel, which you press to get the computer map. The other secret is in the middle of the river after you ride down the rapids. It's just to the North-West of the entrance to the BFG 9000.
4. Information, screenshots, and links to downloads of other wads I've made can be found at my site, DooM Nexus (http:\\doomnexus.50megs.com)

[Graf_Zahl]

What is the bug in ZDooM that makes the jump possible? The jump worked fine in V2.0.45 (and in v2.0.96), so I'm assuming that it hasn't been fixed since then (as Winston made the jump using v2.0.63)? Any ideas why the jump I was speaking about in Temple of The Ancients was possible in the version I developed it for (v1.22, I think) and not in the newer versions?



The bug is that you actually can jump that high. There is no sane reason why it is possible. AFAIK it hasn't been fixed because it would break at least one map, right? ;)

[WinstonSmith6079]

The jump worked fine in V2.0.45 (and in v2.0.96),
So you mean if I simply play the WAD with ZDoom v2.0.96 rather than v2.0.63a, I won't have these problems? ???

[ReX]

So you mean if I simply play the WAD with ZDoom v2.0.96 rather than v2.0.63a, I won't have these problems? ???
Actually, the last jump over the waterfall is not difficult because of the ZDooM version; rather it is difficult because of the jump angle and the distance. Switching to v2.0.96 will likely not help.

[WinstonSmith6079]

1. The problem with the enemies seeming to fall into the ground (and yet remain visible) is usually because of improper node-building. Apparently, small 'cracks' are created when the nodes are not built properly, and when enemies step on them they fall through. This is annoying not only because of the visual aspect, but also because they prevent 100% kills. I believe it can be prevented by having ZDooM do a forced node re-build.
What is a "forced node re-build"? Is it something that I can do before playing?

[Graf_Zahl]

type 'gennodes 1' in the console before loading the level and see whether it helps.