Legacy 1.99.0 alpha3 is out

[smite-meister]

Get the Win32 package here (http://www.hut.fi/u/vberghol/doom/doomlegacy_199alpha3_win32.zip).

It's an alpha release, which means it may not be stable. Nothing is guaranteed.
This version actually hasn't crashed once on my test setup, so we are making some progress ;)
The OSX version still has some problems and will come along later.
Linux users can checkout the source from the CVS and build their own executables (and get to enjoy the ogg/mp3 music as well :))

This time the package also includes the new docs (most of which still need to be written... volunteers?)

I've made some playsim fixes using the test maps Danimetal and Nuxius put together. Great job!
If you find more linedef bugs (or any other bugs for that matter), just post the details in this thread.

Known bugs:
- No music in Windows for now (it will be back later!)
- No network games yet (wait for the beta!)
- Edit: Also, no OpenGL support yet (wait for Hurdler to finish it)

[MR_ROCKET]

Legacy alpha3 Win32 version:
Doom, Doom2, Heretic and Hexen:
Basic report no wad editing stuff:

Sound is much better!
although some soundfx are missing heh
strange soundfx speed at the begining of a map. the pistol soundfx was slower/lower pitch. sometimes. it almost seemed like it was trying to play the soundfx twice at different rates. this didnt alwas happen though.
also without the midi music, some custom pwads will crash.

Deh is working good and so is eternal deh stuff, like in mrq3dm17.wad ;)
so no more crashy.

In game menu slider bars only slide with a key press at a time, not really a bug but in the c version the sliders would slide while holding the arrow key down.

There still seems to be a mouse y axis problem
If you compare the superiorness of the "legacy c version mouse movment", then you'l see what I mean.heh
In the c++ version,x axis-left and right movment and y axis-forward and backwards movment still seem to conflict. when it comes to deathmatch and possibly strafe running backwards, well as is it wont fly, you know what I mean.
My geuss the x axis is fine though.

screen scaling works in the options menu but not properly with + and - keys from within game.

The explosion sprites dont seem to be showing up although the transparency is.
I donno if you were in the middle of testing something with this.

The doc's look grate!, I'll let you know if I have something to add, but right now I'm in no shape to do that heh.

other than that, I'v been launching the game "alot" while testing the what will "hopefully" be an updated legacy launcher using the source posted on cvs. and not once did the alpha3 crash. minus the midi stuff. around 40-50 launchs with clean exit.

yeah this is lookin sweet smite ;)

[Macro11_1]

Oh My God, Its Shaping up!! :D :D :D Yay!

[Jaquboss]

looking forward opengl compatibile version , or if it is it says me something like "couldnt set videomode"
EDIT: put scr_ thingies into autoexec, and well i see that it doesnt support it yet *bliss* ( nice colored , no textures , and no entities *what* )

[Nuxius]

Have to take a look at this once I get home from work later today. :D

I'll definitely let you know if I find any bugs. :p

[rustyslacker]

Hey, cool. Here's what i've noticed so far:

The arms section now works, and the sounds are much better.

Some of the sounds are still messed up. Great improvement from the alpha2, though.
There are still lots of random junk messages when you pick up items, use doors, etc.
There are still no player pain or player death sounds.
Finishing an episode causes a crash.
idclev to a different episode causes a crash.
The title screen is still messed up.
Players still spawn facing the wrong direction.

What did you change from the alpha2?

[iori]

Lots of internal things are changed. Alpha versions are mere stepping stones, remember, so there isn't going to be a massive changelog.

I was really impressed, because I haven't tested anything of the c++ version since alpha 1. I played the first map of hexen, and it was great! Keep it up smite, I look forward to all mailing list changes :)

[Danimetal]

I just got from my crazy exams and I´m almost ready for the testing when I get 30 hours of sleep. I will catch this Alpha leter and try to find anything interesting. Smite-Meister, please, count me in in everything I can help from documents to tests maps. It was a real pleasure for me to do the bench maps with Nuxius.
Do I assume FS support is there?. What about ACS?. Surely the FSStartscript thing needs a lot of testing and I´m willing to do it ;).

[MR_ROCKET]

Somewhat offtopic but, Hey heres a much better conversion of the doom_linedefs.exl
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/doom_linedefs.htm
It should be pretty much just like the version smite posted in the other thread, but in html format :)
oh btw, pm me if you have an update of this smite.
g'night..

[smite-meister]

Do I assume FS support is there?. What about ACS?. Surely the FSStartscript thing needs a lot of testing and I´m willing to do it ;).
Everything that is mentioned in docs/editing.html should work, including FS and ACS.
Phobia.wad played OK when I tested it.

[smite-meister]

There are still lots of random junk messages when you pick up items, use doors, etc.
The technical term is "debugging message", and they shouldn't be random at all :). We'll remove them in the beta.
Finishing an episode causes a crash.
idclev to a different episode causes a crash.
I thought I fixed these two. Is anybody else getting these crashes? What system are you using?

[Nuxius]

Bugs in v1.99 alpha3


New Stuff or things I've learned something new about:

-STEP1 and STEP2 textures are corrupt; Legacy displays gray lines instead (this one existed in alpha2, I just never noticed it until now)
-noticed you have the title pics centered now. :) Hopefully in the next version stretching will be enabled.

51 - S1 - Exit Level (goes to Secret Level)
ExeSpecial (74), tag 100 (100,0,0,0,0)
Crashes Legacy
Looking futher into the stdout.txt file, it seems Legacy crashes because it's trying to end the episode instead of going to the secret level.

198 - G1 - Exit Level (goes to Secret Level)
ExeSpecial (74), tag 100 (100,0,0,0,0)
Crashes Legacy for the exact same reason 51 does. Oddly enough, Linedef action 124 (the W1 version) works perfectly, since it correctly loads the secret level.


Old Bugs that still exist:

-using the + sign will not make screen bigger, have to go to the options to do it
-Legacy exits the level too soon after you hit/shoot a switch. Normally, upon activating or shooting a switch, you would be able to see the texture change and the switch sound before exiting. In 1.99 alpha3, however, as soon as you hit the key to activate/shoot it, it exits.
-Another thing that bugs me is that Enter will not bring up the menu on the title screen. So therefore I have to hit Esc, then hit Enter to go through the menus.
-bring down the console doesn't pause the action (notice Legacy 1.42 doesn't do this either :()

Doom/Ultimate Doom only bugs:
-finishing an episode causes Legacy to crash
-warping to any episode other than the one you're on will cause Legacy to try to load the corresponding map from the episode you're on, then crash. (say, you're in E1M4, and you type IDCLEV31, instead of loading E3M1, Hell Keep, it will try to load Hangar, then crash)

Doom II only bugs:
-trying to play/load anything from MAP07 on will cause Legacy to crash (via a normal exit from MAP06 or cheating)


Linedef Action stuff:

144 - W1 - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
ExeSpecial (203), tag 40 (255,4,0,16,32)
Does not remove effect

149 - WR - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
ExeSpecial (203), tag 44 (255,4,0,16,32)
Does not remove effect



Moving on, I've been playing around a bit in the Doom in Hexen format for Legacy.

So far I've made a config file for it for Doom Builder, but I've noticed that the Hexen config that comes with DB isn't very good. For example, it has Linedef Action 9 - Horizon listed, and I'm pretty sure that was a zDoom add in. So I'm having to go through a site I found and double check everything.

I've also noticed some things that Hexen supports that Legacy currently does not; should we list bugs in the Doom in Hexen format yet, Smite? Or is it still too early to even worry about that yet?

Moving on to Poly Objects, I've noticed that Legacy checks for them at the startup of a map. Do you know what numbers they'll be assigned to yet, smite? Same as zDoom, 9300 for the anchor and 9301 for the start spot, or something different? Obviously it can't be the same as Hexen, since 3001 is an Imp. (heh)


There are still lots of random junk messages when you pick up items, use doors, etc.Those aren't random junk. That's telling you what Legacy is currently doing; it's for debugging purposes. When certian things with linedef actions and the like go wrong, we can pass those values onto Smite-Meister so he can better figure out what Legacy is doing wrong. Debugging messages serve quite a vital purpose in the development stages of pretty much any program.

[Danimetal]

I can´t drag and drop any wad files into the Legacy.exe so I have to rely on batch files to run other wads than doom2 iwad... Some files wouldn´t run, just exiting back to windows then trying to start a new game. I can´t even guess what causes that. Running "Phobia" would work :). Am I experiencing some kind of "Wad compatibility problem"?.

Also, I found that when shooting bad guys in Hexen, I get the "Oooff" sound of the Doom Marine Jumping.

[iori]

Alpha3 changes maps across episodes fine for me. But it doesnt recognize that I'm using the Ultimate Doom wad. Also, I noticed that the cyberdemon was firing at the wall in e2m8:

http://trevp.dyndns.org/screens/2.0/DOOM000.png

http://trevp.dyndns.org/screens/2.0/DOOM001.png

[Jaquboss]

Now me :
Changing status bar scaling and screen size cause screen melt , this is annoying ..
Then i run agains this barrel and get stuck above it after typing noclip i fell of it, but it didnt
happen again
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/jaquboss/DOOM000.jpg
And player death sound isnt missing , but it is incorrect - it is jump sound
Not a bug but question
What is "voodoo dolls" option ?

[Danimetal]

Vodoo Dolls is for allowing more than one "Player 1" entities in the game, I guess. You control one and the other stands there, still, and can be harmed, harming you.

[iori]

I rather like the screen fading when changing screen sizes. In fact, I hope that will be in the final (software) version.

[MR_ROCKET]

The doom_linedefs reference chart has been updated, thanks to smite for his quick reply :)
Same link as in my last post.

[rustyslacker]

I thought I fixed these two. Is anybody else getting these crashes? What system are you using?

nope... they're still there. idclev to the current episode works, but to separate episodes does not. also, finishing an episode crashes the game, still.

using windows xp, p4 3ghz, 1gb ram, service pack 1.

[MR_ROCKET]

rustyslacker, what iwad are you running? and are you running a pwad? and are you sure your using the alpha3 build?
It hasnt crahed on me yet.

[Planky]

-bring down the console doesn't pause the action (notice Legacy 1.42 doesn't do this either :()


Alot of games do that, even doom 3. Was it like this in one of the previous versions of Legacy?

I tend to hit pause then bring down the console if I cant find somewhere quiet to stop.

I rather like the screen fading when changing screen sizes. In fact, I hope that will be in the final (software) version.

I'd prefer it being instant, rather than having the screen melt/fade.

[rustyslacker]

The Ultimate Doom
No pwad
Yes, I'm sure.

[Danimetal]

The CD volume slider does funny things, as it only had 3 positions. Also, the volume sliders go to 100% to 0% and vice versa if you push them too far...
I´m experimenting loads of custom textures problems as with the previous Alpha: some wads with custom textures will run with no apparent problem while many others just don´t start the game... Is anyone else experiencing this?.
Other than that, I´d be interested on the anchor number for polyobjects in Doom mode, as Nuxius said. Oh!. Also, the dehacked patch appears unformatted for me, so it´s impossible to read it :).

[Nuxius]

But it doesnt recognize that I'm using the Ultimate Doom wad.What exactly do you mean by that? What does Legacy do exactly? I'm just asking because I've noticed that both rustyslacker and I are using Ultimate Doom, and am thinking that perhaps this has something to with our problem...

I thought I fixed these two. Is anybody else getting these crashes? What system are you using?I'm using Windows XP. If you want, I can post my stdout/stderr files, but I don't think it's going to help much.

[iori]

What exactly do you mean by that? What does Legacy do exactly?
It doesn't show Thy Flesh Consumed in the Episode menu. But I can warp to/finish episodes just fine.

[Nuxius]

That's strange. Mine's shows the Thy Flesh Consumed episode just fine.

Weeeeeeeird... o_O

[The Undertaker]

Your wad named udoom.wad by any chance?

[Nuxius]

I'm not sure if you're talking to iori or me, but to answer your question, mine's is named doom.wad.

Total information, just for comparisons sake:

Game: Ultimate Doom
Filename: DOOM.WAD
Size: 11.8 MB (12,408,292 bytes)
Last modified: Wednesday, May 24, 1995, 9:09:36 PM

What's the information on all of your Ulimate Doom wad files?

[rustyslacker]

mine also shows the "Thy Flesh Consumed" episode, and it is playable, and it is doom.wad.

[iori]

Mine shows the 'Ultimate Doom' Titlepic and I can warp to e4 levels once I'm in another episode, but I can't directly choose Thy Flesh Consumed at the Episode Select menu.

DOOM.WAD file version 1.9
size 11.8 MB (12,404,498 bytes, 12,406,784 bytes on disk)

EDIT: yeah, It seems that I had to rename it 'DOOMU.WAD' for it to be recognized :/

[Ebola]

After some testing it appears it have some serious issues with the Deh file in Nimrod.
It still crashes on startup when trying to run it. :/


DEH: Frame 962: A mobj frame cannot be followed by a weapon frame!
DEH: [CODEPTR]: Unknown mnemonic '9'
DEH: [CODEPTR]: Unknown mnemonic '9'
DEH: Text not changed :YOU HAVE ENTERED DEEPLY INTO THE INFESTED

[smite-meister]

51 - S1 - Exit Level (goes to Secret Level)
Looking futher into the stdout.txt file, it seems Legacy crashes because it's trying to end the episode instead of going to the secret level.

It still doesn't crash on me, but I fixed the episode ending bug (now the secret exits should work in all maps).

Oddly enough, Linedef action 124 (the W1 version) works perfectly, since it correctly loads the secret level.

Not odd at all ;): in ground100-150.wad the test map is e1m3, where the secret exit is "supposed to be" in the original doom.wad.
Anyway, now this is fixed.


-Legacy exits the level too soon after you hit/shoot a switch. Normally, upon activating or shooting a switch, you would be able to see the texture change and the switch sound before exiting. In 1.99 alpha3, however, as soon as you hit the key to activate/shoot it, it exits.

You do get the sound. I'll see what I can do about the extra rendering round.


144 - W1 - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
ExeSpecial (203), tag 40 (255,4,0,16,32)
Does not remove effect

149 - WR - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
ExeSpecial (203), tag 44 (255,4,0,16,32)
Does not remove effect

This is probably a documentation error *confused*. These types are not supposed to remove the effect, at least not
according to the PrBoom source (which I guess should be the authority on the Boom types...?)



I've noticed that the Hexen config that comes with DB isn't very good. For example, it has Linedef Action 9 - Horizon listed, and I'm pretty sure that was a zDoom add in. So I'm having to go through a site I found and double check everything.

You can also check the config against the function Map::ExecuteLineSpecial in engine/p_event.cpp.
It has the actual Hexen types and the add-on ZDoom types clearly separated,


I've also noticed some things that Hexen supports that Legacy currently does not; should we list bugs in the Doom in Hexen format yet, Smite?

Sure. Besides some marginal physics and damage issues (such as poisoning, falling damage etc.), Hexen should be fully working.


Moving on to Poly Objects, I've noticed that Legacy checks for them at the startup of a map. Do you know what numbers they'll be assigned to yet, smite? Same as zDoom, 9300 for the anchor and 9301 for the start spot, or something different? Obviously it can't be the same as Hexen, since 3001 is an Imp. (heh)

Not sure yet. Same as ZDoom could be a good choice.

BTW, it seems that all the crashes you experience have the same underlying reason, namely a cluster change.
I'll look into it.

[smite-meister]

Other than that, I´d be interested on the anchor number for polyobjects in Doom mode, as Nuxius said. Oh!. Also, the dehacked patch appears unformatted for me, so it´s impossible to read it :).
You can't have polyobjects in Doom mode yet, perhaps in the next release.
Do you mean example.deh? It is formatted, but using the Unix line-ending convention (the only one that makes sense :p )
You'll see it correctly if you use a smarter editor than Notepad. For example all browsers should show it right.

[MR_ROCKET]

eeeew evil linux deh's!
GET THEM !!!

to rustyslacker:
ok, and no wonder, heh everyone has a different doom version. *eek*

[Nuxius]

BTW, it seems that all the crashes you experience have the same underlying reason, namely a cluster change.
I'll look into itHmmm, trying it a few times and examing the stdout.txt file, it looks as though you might be right on that one. Regardless of whether it's one of the exit switches, or me wapring to another episode, the last lines in the stdout.txt file are always this:

Map request..Cluster (insert # of episode) finished!
StartMusic: D_VICTOR

And then it crashes.

This is probably a documentation error . These types are not supposed to remove the effect, at least not
according to the PrBoom source (which I guess should be the authority on the Boom types...?)Well, I ran the level through Boom itself, and sure enough, you're right. It looks as though whoever typed out the original Boom config file for DB got it wrong, and since everyone just used that as their basis to do the other config files (including Legacy) it got carried over.

Heh, I guess I'll have to make a note to myself to never use DB's config files to make sure somethings working right. :lol

Sure. Besides some marginal physics and damage issues (such as poisoning, falling damage etc.), Hexen should be fully working.Okay. I'm going to go through and check over the Hexen DB config file for mistakes first, though. Right now I'm currently using this site: http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/uds/xacsfunc.html

You can also check the config against the function Map::ExecuteLineSpecial in engine/p_event.cpp.
It has the actual Hexen types and the add-on ZDoom types clearly separated,Perfect! That's exactly what I was needing. This whole CVS thing is still very new to me, so I wouldn't have even known where to look for that unless you told me. ;)

[Danimetal]

How about the custom scripted HUDS?. What´s their functionality?. I thought about some "improvements" to do to them, but they got away from a regular HUD thing and went into the "Custom weapons" tag. I don´t remember where did I post that...

Edit: Another suggestion... What about a way of changing the colormap of everything the player sees instead of using tagged sectors?. Imagine you want to make a "night" level and you could use a dark blue colormap. Instead of tagging the whole thing (with all adjustments and such) you just tint the screen... Wait... Why do I have the feel that this thing is being implemented?. Anyway, that´s it :).

[Planky]

You mean like when the screen flashes red when the player is hurt?

[Danimetal]

Something like that. It´s a pain to colour whole levels with linedefs.

[MR_ROCKET]

It would be cool to be able to fraggle colormaps like you would coronas. :P
COLORMAP_COLOR = 3;
hehe

Isn't this basically turning fog with alot of intensity off and on though, in a way?
oh yeah, will the fog from c version be inherited?
sector taggable fog would be cool, I donno how that would turn out in software render though :P

you are a spoiled rotten mapper!
g'night

[Danimetal]

Isn't this basically turning fog with alot of intensity off and on though, in a way?
I don´t think so... Well, I mean, it´s more like a tint?. The fog tends to make things dissapear in the distance and the colormaps don´t. Of course, that´s only what I think.

sector taggable fog would be cool, I donno how that would turn out in software render though :P
Isn´t a software fog in Hexen?. I remember something like that in the swamp levels...

you are a spoiled rotten mapper!

Of course but... What does this mean?.

[smite-meister]

Isn´t a software fog in Hexen?. I remember something like that in the swamp levels...

No fog, but in Hexen you can make each map have its own lightlevel colormaps (the usual ones are stored in
the COLORMAP lump, which has a really misleading name!).
This can be made to look like a kind of fog if it washes out more and more colors when the distance increases (lightlevel diminishes.)

BTW, I finished adding support for this just minutes ago, now Darkmere looks much better :)

[MR_ROCKET]

Awesome smite!, I cant wait to check it out in the next release :) will this replace the usual fog that's in the c version? will it become a standard to use with other iwads as well?

heh danimetal, the spoiled mapper comment was sarcasm and directed to all mappers. but then again we're all spoiled rotten mappers :P doom.exe 12 years later with every given data type added heh.
Random mapper says: I need a bigger tool box! ;) in this case a spoiled rotten mapper is a good thing :)

[Danimetal]

No offense taken dude :). I think I enjoy more mapping than playing, maybe it´s my big ego XD!. Nah, we´re all rotten, in a sense :P.

[Ebola]

sector taggable fog would be cool, I donno how that would turn out in software render though :P

Legacy already have 2 methods of making sector based fog. However, it only works in software.

[smite-meister]

will this replace the usual fog that's in the c version? will it become a standard to use with other iwads as well?

You can use it with any IWAD (it's done using the MAPINFO command "fadetable"), but I don't think it will be very
popular, because it's based on the palette and thus really hard to simulate in OpenGL.
If you want more details, you must ask Hurdler.
As a matter of fact, I'd like to know how the lightlevels, colormaps and transmaps are normally done in OpenGL, too ;)

[Ajapted]

For GL, the colormap is either ignored or used to set the gl fog color based on the color in the last map (usually black). With tranmap the easiest thing is to see what color white maps to, and use that as the translucency color. You can get a bit more sophisticated, but yeah there is a limit on how much you can emulate in GL.

[smite-meister]

For GL, the colormap is either ignored or used to set the gl fog color based on the color in the last map (usually black). With tranmap the easiest thing is to see what color white maps to, and use that as the translucency color. You can get a bit more sophisticated, but yeah there is a limit on how much you can emulate in GL.
Well, if you really want to, you could do really complex truecolor fragment processing and blending in OpenGL too, but
it's just not as straightforward as it is with a palette. And certainly not as fast.

[Ajapted]

Yeah, modern cards (Doom-3 capable ones) must have features that would be useful (is there anything that shaders can't do ? :)). All I've got is a Radeon Mobility 7500 and a TNT2-64 for testing stuff with.

[MR_ROCKET]

Hey Ebola, sorry man it was late and I was about to crash in that post.heh
The post was about the c++ version and if it was going to inherit the fog stuff from the c version.
The fog I was talking about is the fog you can only see in hardware render from the c version. That's the fog I wasn't sure how it would turn out in software mode. it can be misleading.

Anyhow, MAPINFO / fadetable is our new friend about this, I just hope it turns out ok in hardware mode when the time comes. just wish I could icq hurdler like I used to long ago or just pop in the underground forum and say hurdler yadda yadda?.heh
Have you heard from him lately smite?

[Ebola]

Well, the point is that the second isn't a colormap created fog effect, it's used by using hex values and should be possible in OpenGL. However for some reason it never was added, just the color code was. (So while you could get murky brown water in software, you could only get brown water in OGL)

The fadetable is nice I suppose. But it's not for me, if I can use sector based fog. I will use it.

[MR_ROCKET]

Agreed, However !, heh I cant come to that conclusion until I'v tested the fadetable fog if/when its introduced to OGL.

[Ebola]

Well, considering that Doom Legacy had such a feature for Open GL ONLY for quite some years now. It should be expected that it'll make an appearance here aswell.

[MR_ROCKET]

Wow Legacy has had MAPINFO fadtable commad in opengl for years?
anyhows, yeah ebola thats what my question was about a page ago..but smite already gave me his best answer for that. thanks

[sl4]

The OSX version still has some problems and will come along later.

Smite (or anyone working on the project), do you have any approximate idea how much longer it'll be until we get an OS X alpha? Even "not for a very, very long time" works as an answer, just something to give me a basic idea, haha. Thanks.

[smite-meister]

Smite (or anyone working on the project), do you have any approximate idea how much longer it'll be until we get an OS X alpha?
Basically the reason we have not released an OS X alpha is that it still crashes occasionally,
for a reason we don't understand :(

We managed to get rid of the majority of crashing bugs in Win32 and Linux using Valgrind,
but it seems that some OS X specific ones remain. Our OS X porter, Gábor, thinks it could
be another endianness issue (PowerPCs are big-endian). Maybe this bug will be fixed
tomorrow, maybe it will take weeks, we really can't say.

So, anyway: If you don't mind the crashes, you could ask him to release an "unofficial" unstable alpha build for OS X.

[MR_ROCKET]

I know your probably working on the netcode smite :P but I was just going threw some wads and noticed one that's zdoom specific and runs in the alpha3.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/Legacyalph3_dark7.jpg
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dark7.zip
yep zdoom based is what the wad is made for, but will now also run in legacy.
I figured I'd post up about this, the outlog might be useful seems how the console fills up with alot of stuff other than the repeated execute special..but it does run.

oh btw, its an older zdoom wad and i dont recall seeing any slopes in it, so it might make a good test wad. at least until the "slope" word comes up again. *turvy* aswell as there being alot of things that work and alot that dont, still maybe something to reference with.

[GhostlyDeath]

That would be awsome if Legacy could Load ZDoom maps.. Maybe Slopped 3D floors? *shocked*

[rustyslacker]

well, legacy doesn't have slopped 3d floors, but i believe it has sloped 3d floors.

[Danimetal]

Nope, it hasn´t. Just give it some time, I hope :).

[MR_ROCKET]

shhh, don't say the S word!
Doom_Dude will come in here and start drooling all over the place and Smite will make us clean it all up!

heh anyhows, was checkin out some twilight warrior in the alpha3 also,
although it isnt a zdoom specific wad like above, the alpha seems to have a problem with its deh.
http://www.doomworld.com/twilight/main.htm
This wad actually has an old 1.26 C version of legacy that comes with it. but it runs fine in the latest 1.4x versions.

[Danimetal]

The S word. The more I try to forget it, the more it comes to my mind, as if I was in love with it or something XD!.

[rustyslacker]

xd? what's xd? i see you posting that word all the time and i have no freakin clue what it means!

but slopes would rock. i can already think of a million-bazillion ways i would use them in my maps!

[iori]

er.. it's a smily. You should know that, with all that 'leet' in your title.

[rustyslacker]

oh my god i am an idiot.

[Danimetal]

Let´s see... XD. Obviously the D is a big smile. X would be the result of rotating >< 90 degrees. As you can see, >< looks like a pair of eyes shut tight ´cos of laughter. XD means I´m laughing. I don´t see a lot of people using that anymore.

[The Undertaker]

So it would look a little something like this (http://forums.guru3d.com/images/smilies/3dbiggrin3.gif).

[MR_ROCKET]

Lol that pretty much sums it up :D
Anyways, what were we talking about.
oh yeah, how the alpha3 can run and is somewhat compatible with some of the zdoom specific wads. this rocks.

[Danimetal]

Hmmm. This is great, it can run ZDoom maps although it doesn´t recognise ZDoom specials. What about Legacy specials?. What´s Legacy gonna become?. ZDoom is known for its great flexibility regarding stuff that initially makes no sense in the Doom world and gameplay (the so called "Features"), I´d like to know if Legacy is gonna stick to it´s Doom roots without implementing very specific gameplay stuff or not.

Also, I would like to make a proposal if I may (I´m, just the average user, you know): to update the official "TODO". There have been great ideas in the "New feature suggestions" thread. Why not revising the thread and sum the best ideas in a new "TO-DO"?.

[Rellik_jmd]

COMING SOON

"LEGACY XD"

omg wtf nm brb :)

[Danimetal]

Hi Rellik. Nice to see you´re back for a glimpse.

[rustyslacker]

w00tings. rellik.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah I know watcha mean. Well I'd imagine Smite will draw the line somewhere. I doubt that there will be a whole lot more zdoom stuff added. we just needed the hexen stuff in there mainly and the zdoom stuff in there just for the slopes heh. ah damn I said the s word :(

Hey there's that crazy Rellik guy !
heh sup man. :) I hear ya..
BeholT teH new L33T Legacy feature :
Drum roll PLZOMG!1m00
*-=LEGACY XD>*

[Rellik_jmd]

Life is busy but for Legacy I can always find some time. Came up with some cool scripting ideas today at work, can't remember 'em now. Figures. :-p

Great to see work is still progressing. Sooner or later I'll be back with some more time to spend on Doom again, looks like I'll have a fantastic new Legacy to play with. :-)

[Planky]

Im not good enough for you anymore?!?

*dark*

[iori]

YOU?! He always fancied me more.

*dark*

[Aliotroph?]

Knew I shouldn't have given him that extra Winona-bot. :p

[MR_ROCKET]

Winona is a slut.. *drinky*

[The Undertaker]

After seeing her famous ping pong ball trick on South Park I'd have to agree.:)

[rustyslacker]

seriously though, any new update on Legacy 1.99/2.0???

[Rellik_jmd]

Yeah guys, seriously. Questions are being asked about Legacy and you guys are not being helpfull at all. And you wonder why I don't think any of you sluts are good enough for me. :-D

I think the biggest update is that on start up it'll search your computer for login names like "Planky, Alio, IOreo, and/or Rocket" and will identify them as "irretrievable goobery" and attempt to:

if(goobery==1)
{
user(sterilize, can_lid, hammer, lemon_juice)
}

Pretty cool huh? :)

[rustyslacker]

yes, very cool.

but have the names rusty and rellik_jmd identified as "ph00dilyness" and try this:

if(ph00dilyness=1)
{
give(money,free_stuff)
}

yes?

[iori]

Good thing my name isnt IOreo then isn't it!

[rustyslacker]

/me is confused...
@iori: wtf???

[iori]

nothing, too much effort to explain

[rustyslacker]

uh...ok then

[The Undertaker]

Then we gotta dub iori Sir Ioreo then. I need a king, a sword, and some nachos.

[DOOM_GOAT]

rise, Sir Trevor Iori Gaylord Manleigh-Bumfort, OBE.

[rustyslacker]

lol i feel so young around you guys

or maybe i just wasn't there :-D

[Rellik_jmd]

YES MONEY AND STUFF SEND NOW.

Don't make me send in the imp strippers...

"My power doesn't come from the fact that I have the Imp Strippers, it comes from the fact that I'll let 'em loose."

[MR_ROCKET]

Hey add me to that script because I WANT SOME MONEY AN STUFF TOO!

oh nO! dude dont let it loose!

/me holds nose.
and just in case reloads rocket launcher.

[Planky]

planky.explode();
everyone.splinters++;

[Rellik_jmd]

*pulls out planky sliver*

I feel kind of violated and dirty now.....

:D

[rustyslacker]

[scripts]
script 1

{
spawn(ph00d, 12, 12, 12);

}

startscript (1);

[Danimetal]

lol i feel so young around you guys
I thought you actually were... Ahhh, food, I´m on a diet now, and it hurts XD!.

[/Spamming]

[Danimetal]

Sorry about the double posting, but I´m with a serious question again:

Will the Hexen format of v2.0 keep the 255 sector tag limit?. What would happen if I tried to convert some maps of my current project that use the 1000 tag to some effect?.

I know I could change "1000" to "255" and I´d be happy but, is that limit really convenient?. Same to be asked about the current segments limit.

PS: I´m currently reading through Hexen documentations so maybe I´m damn wrong in some guesses (my Hexen editing experience is short!).

[rustyslacker]

I thought you actually were

hey, how do you know?

[Danimetal]

Intuition dude, this and some obsession about food ;).

In addition to
Will the Hexen format of v2.0 keep the 255 sector tag limit?. What would happen if I tried to convert some maps of my current project that use the 1000 tag to some effect?.

I know I could change "1000" to "255" and I´d be happy but, is that limit really convenient?. Same to be asked about the current segments limit.
I´d like to ask... When using a bex StartFS or StartACS codepointer, what´s labeled as "trigger"?. The thing that has this codepointer?.

[smite-meister]

When using a bex StartFS or StartACS codepointer, what´s labeled as "trigger"?. The thing that has this codepointer?.
Yes, and for weapon codepointers, the trigger object will be the player (actually PlayerPawn) whose
weapon called the codepointer.


Will the Hexen format of v2.0 keep the 255 sector tag limit?. What would happen if I tried to convert some maps of my current project that use the 1000 tag to some effect?.

Yes, it cannot be avoided. The conversion tool will give you warnings if you have linedef tags above 255
in your map, and replace them with zeros. It could also "pack" the tags, but then it would have to
produce also a modified SECTORS lump.

The only exceptions to this rule are the Legacy and Boom extensions to the Doom linedef system.
For these linedef types, the entire 16-bit tag is stored. So, for example the 3D floor tags
need not be below 255.
The reason for this is that these types are implemented under Hexen using
our own extensions which use two one-byte arg fields to store the tag.


I know I could change "1000" to "255" and I´d be happy but, is that limit really convenient?. Same to be asked about the current segments limit.

It's not convenient, but currently I can't think of any way around it. Note the thing about the
Legacy extensions above, though. You only need to keep the "original Doom and Heretic" tags below 255.

[Danimetal]

Seems I misunderstood the Hexen format, it´s great to know that you can have extensive 3d floors usage... Now I wonder if the tags used in the FS scripts (I assume ACS will be) are also limited to 255. Anyway, it´s a decent number now :).

What about the segments limitation?. It would be great to make big maps :).

[deepteam]

The only exceptions to this rule are the Legacy and Boom extensions to the Doom linedef system.

For these linedef types, the entire 16-bit tag is stored. So, for example the 3D floor tags
need not be below 255.

The reason for this is that these types are implemented under Hexen using
our own extensions which use two one-byte arg fields to store the tag.

It's not convenient, but currently I can't think of any way around it. Note the thing about the Legacy extensions above, though. You only need to keep the "original Doom and Heretic" tags below 255.
Not convenient is an understatement. The EDITOR issues this introduces to the users are pretty big.

You might be able to use the texture name area (since 3D floors don't use all 3 names) and put the reference there. In RISEN3D the "spare" name area is actually used to determine the 3D floor heights. Names start with $, somewhat like you start names with # for color. R3D's 3D floor method is overly burdensome for editing vs the Legacy method - but maybe it gives you an alternate method. [I tried to talk Graham out of doing it this way to no avail *ugh* ]

This actually goes back to the other thread - not discussing stuff like this ahead of time. I see your current approach not viable for many reasons, with editing support being #1.

Historically, there's no reason for this to be done this way. Although it's nice to have tags > 255, it's not been a serious problem for ZDOOM levels. Now if you can get ZDOOM to accept this approach, I'm all for it and will change DeePsea accordingly - but I doubt that will happen *alienate* First problem is how to distinquish levels done this way. You could invent a new thing that determines this - that's how R3D knows a level has R3D specific line types. Still don't like the idea of combining 2 args though. *spin*

[Rellik_jmd]

If you hit 255 tags, time to start a new map. :)

[smite-meister]

First problem is how to distinquish levels done this way. You could invent a new thing that determines this - that's how R3D knows a level has R3D specific line types. Still don't like the idea of combining 2 args though. *spin*
There should be no problem, this is how we define the "Legacy extensions" linedeftype in Hexen:

Hexen type 150 (again, subject to change:)): Legacy extensions (subtype, arg2, arg3, tag_L, tag_H)
where subtype determines how arg2 and arg3 are interpreted (this is so we can fit all the extensions under one type),
and tag = tag_H*256 + tag_L.

The "extended tags" only apply to this single linedeftype. Should be no problem either to the user or the editor.
If you don't want to use the extended tags, just leave tag_H to zero.

[deepteam]

I hope this is now abandoned since I saw that you had no idea about ZWADCNVT and how it worked.

Frankly, the problem port authors have is that they are not familiar with all the various editing tools and do not realize the problems this introduces. IOW, this screws up the free tag tools making it difficult as the map expands. You'd have to make a large HEXEN level with scripting to realize how much of a mess this makes. Sure one can overcome it, but it won't be easy.

[Nuxius]

Found another bug the other day when I messing around with this.

Mouse handling for strafing isn't working correctly. First off, it doesn't seem to have any sensitivity levels, so moving the mouse slightly moves you at walking speed. If you perform a quick movement with the mouse, however, the player will go erratic, shaking to the left and right, and sometimes strafing in the oppisite direction from which you intended.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah I noticed that awhile back about the mouse, if you turn the Y axis all the way up or all the way down it will help with control, it seem'd like all the way up did the same as it would being all the way down, disabled. There was something up with the mouse Y movement.

[Ebola]

I just noticed that the alpha 3 version of Legacy still don't automatically allocate the ammount of ram it need to run. As I got a Z_alloc error in it and it suggested I used the commandline parmeter -mb to deal with it.

[Danimetal]

If you hit 255 tags, time to start a new map. :)
No way ;). I´m around 300 tags in a Legacy level that is below 30000 segs. You know, just creating multiple 3d floors that overlap in different fashions can eat a lot of tags out. Then add some scrolling sectors and your typical tag usage. Finally some FS stuff and you´re out of tags!!!. So Far Legacy seems to be doing fine with the extended tag limit but if the Hexen format will be limited to 255 tags I will be in serious trouble to port this map to Hexen format :S.

[Logan MTM]

Please... RainBowStar for alpha 3 ???