Legacy 1.99 alpha2 for Windows available

[smite-meister]

After weeks of delays, here it finally is:
http://www.hut.fi/u/vberghol/doom/doomlegacy_199alpha2_win32.zip
This package should include everything you need for testing.

Normal warnings apply: It's an alpha release, which means it's not stable. Nothing is guaranteed :)

Edit: Oh yeah, only single player works for now. But the new netcode is coming along...

Known bugs:
- No music in Windows for now (it will be back later!)
- Some animated textures are corrupt.
- Certain player preferences (such as autorun, autoaim) are not saved.
- The "choose your species" option may cause a crash.

[The Undertaker]

And its only 2 months late (http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=26869).

[Danimetal]

Downloading, testing tonight... Were could we adress bugs and comments if neccesary?.

Also, any suggestion for a code of colours regarding each game?. Shall we do it as in the previous thread?.

Finally, could we use this to test custom map or it´s better if we stick to regular Doom, Doom2, Heretic and Hexen?.

[Nuxius]

I'm just going to start bug reports in this thread, if it is decided that start another thread for bugs, then just move this:


Both Dooms
-all pictures(title, tally screen, etc) do not stretch properly when changing resolutions
-using the + sign will not make the viewport bigger, have to go to the options to do it
-lifts move at floor rasing/lowering speeds (ie very slow)
-crushing ceilings stop completely when they hit a thing, thus you can manuver yourself right out of it. (they go back to their normal slower descent once you escape out from under it though)
-after your inital load of Legacy, on the very first time you activate a crushing ceiling, it will immediately go to the floor and start there. Any subsuqent crushing ceilings in the level will act the same. However, once you move on to another level, even if you go back to the level you encountered this originally, crushing ceilings will act normal. (it took me a while to figure this one out, heh)


Doom/Ultimate Doom only bugs
-finishing a episode causes Legacy to crash
-map loading functions are buggy with Ultimate Doom (both IDCLEV and using the console)
1)warping to any episode other than the one you're on will cause Legacy to try to load the corresponding map from the episode you're currently playing, then crash. (say, you're in E1M4, and you type IDCLEV31, instead of loading E3M1, Hell Keep, it will try to load E1M1, Hangar, then crash)
2)when typing IDCLEV*8 or 9 (*=episode#) Legacy thinks you're typing in a 0 instead of a 8 or 9 and thus won't load anything
3)If using the console, trying to load the 8th or 9th map of any episode causes the same error as above, I'm guessing it still thinks it's a 0 (console doesn't say), and thus won't work
4)Trying to use the console to load *any* other map will cause Legacy to crash.


Doom II only bugs
-trying to play/load anything from MAP07 on will cause Legacy to crash (via a normal exit from MAP06 or cheating)


Bugs? - Annoyances
-bringing down console doesn't pause the action


I slight engine rendering error I found:
All sidedefs act strangely when moving over them.

This is very hard to explain, just find a location of one, and while facing at a 10-20 degree angle to the line, walk over it. Watch the floor/ceiling at the line; for a second one of the floor textures will overlap the other, and then *pop* back into place. If there is a height difference, the wall texture will look slighty detached from it's line (it will warp slighty and appear to scroll with your movements before popping back into place).

This is easier to spot if you can find a long sidedef, since it's more pronounced, or use the look function to look down.

Nothing major, but I thought I would post it nonetheless.



Also, for already known bugs, don't forget about player starts facing the wrong direction. ;)

I'll post as I find more bugs 'n' stuff.

[CtrlKeyEmAll]

Hmm...I know this an Alpha and I don't think for a minute that I know anything about making a source port but I was expecting a bit more. A couple things it did very well was crash often and make freaky colors on my screen but that's it.

I'm no expert programmer or anything but from what I saw in this Alpha is that we won't see an official release for a long time yet, maybe a couple years.

Oh, when I visit the Legacy site I always think that I've warped back in time.

Happy New Year ! *bday*

[Planky]

Why should you expect much from an alpha? And what exactly where you expecting?

Legacy 2 will look and play almost identically to the previous versions (Until it has a new renderer that is).

[Nuxius]

Oh, so this is the same software renderer the previous version of Legacy had? Well, I guess you can ignore the sidedef rendering issue I posted above, especially if a new one is coming once you get most of the bugs worked out of the code.

Also of note, I added some more bug findings to my previous post.

[Graf_Zahl]

-crushing ceilings stop completely when they hit a thing, thus you can manuver yourself right out of it. (they go back to their normal slower descent once you escape out from under it though)


This is the original Hexen behavior. Obviously for Doom and Heretic it should be different.


I slight engine rendering error I found:
All sidedefs act strangely when moving over them.

This is very hard to explain, just find a location of one, and while facing at a 10-20 degree angle to the line, walk over it. Watch the floor/ceiling at the line; for a second one of the floor textures will overlap the other, and then *pop* back into place. If there is a height difference, the wall texture will look slighty detached from it's line (it will warp slighty and appear to scroll with your movements before popping back into place).

This is easier to spot if you can find a long sidedef, since it's more pronounced, or use the look function to look down.

Nothing major, but I thought I would post it nonetheless.


This effect can be observed in Doom2.exe as well. The map where I first noticed it is Map24 and that was a long time ago. Since most of Legacy's renderer is still the same I don't find this surprising.

[Nuxius]

It does? Heh, guess back in those days I just ignored those types of things. I think back then I was too busy ogling over how they got it all to be "3D" (:p).

[Danimetal]

I tested it for some minutes before going into my books again. The still have little results, but I´ll post them:

HEXEN.

-Polyobjects won´t ever crush me or move me from my spot.
-Changing resolution to 800x600 makes the cursor display in funny places.
-An "!" is shown as the cursor when I save games (I think this was also in Hexen).
-The animated teleporter floors are no longer animated.
-You get the Doom ending level screen with the kill and stuff count!. Also a weird "!!!" symbol at the upper left corner appears and, best of all, after each counting, you hear the "Jump" sound.
-I conserve my keys between the Winnoning Hall and the Seven Portals.
-Waterfalls in "seven portals" are currupted with the tutti frutti effect.
-Inventory doesn´t work.
-No full screen mana indicator.
-After loading my game in "Seven portals", lots of "Players" appeared where any object was before, most of them facing the same direction... Well, there were some monsters that turned into it after I punched it. I can kill them without getting hurt, they don´t react. Powerups like armor and potions stayed as they are but couldn´t be picked up and blocked the way until punched and turned into "Players"... In fact, everything I punch turns into it!.
-When in windowed mode, at high resolutions, the mouselook is too sensitive, as if it was using the windows configuration for it.
-After loading a game, the portal texture into the "Guardian of Steel" and "Guardian of Ice" are heavily corrupted. Exits Legacy after walking through any of them with no error message.


DOOM:
-It´s me or Doom sounds different?.
-Imp fireballs are non-translucid
-I don´t get any "Ugh!" sound when damaged in special damage sectors.
-Secret elevator in the indoor slime pit in E1M1 doesn´t come down but makes it´s choppy sound.
-Fast elevators just move slow and make the same choppy sound (E1M2).
-When doing IDKFA cheat all six keys show in the status bar and no numbers where the "Arms" part is.
-Warping to any map does cause the splash screen appear.
-Hitting "1" would make me select the fist before the chainsaw. Same for the shotgun and the super shotgun.
-Many el
evators are slow. Some others behave strange with their textures as they are fixed, like "lower unpegged" when they move.s
-The "Frags" indicator was always there.
-I got ceiling and texture bleedings when looking up at close ceilings. (Screenshot (http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/bug000.txt)).
-Pause icon not centered when pausing.
-No arms numbers in the status bar.
-In map04, one of the two windows in the beginning does not move at all.
-Doors holding cacodemons in the ending of map 05 did not open.
-Crashed in the beginning of map06.


COMMENTS:
-Game won´t pause or stop when I get out of fullscreen mode.
-There´s no way to change the random sound pitch.
-Player starts rotated to the right.
-Too little savegame slots.
-Some lines have changed colours in the automap. In Hexen, the blue ones are somewhat irritating.

[smite-meister]

And its only 2 months late.
Now, the Linux version of the alpha was ready weeks ago, but we had some unforeseen trouble
with the music in the Windows version (and finally decided to release the Win32 alpha2 without the music) *smirk*

[Danimetal]

I updated my bug list with some more... Still, is this bug notification neccesary?. Maybe we should keep an unified list if so, like sending all bugs by mail to someone (from the Legacy Team, I suppose) and he mantaining the list.

[Nuxius]

-I got ceiling and texture bleedings when looking up at close ceilings. (Screenshot).Yeah, that's the same rendering error I saw. If you look at Graf_Zahl's post above, he states that it happens in the standard Doom engine as well, so it's just something carried over from it.

-Player starts rotated to the right.Only for the first level, as far as I can tell. For all other levels, it's entirely random.

[Pate]

-Player starts rotated to the right.

Only for the first level, as far as I can tell. For all other levels, it's entirely random.

When the game starts, the player is looking east (angle value 0). On following levels the player looks at the same direction he was looking at the end of the previous level.

[smite-meister]

When loading Doom or Heretic levels, Legacy internally converts the linedefs into a Hexen-like system
(with some ZDoom extensions). If some linedef effect is not what you expect, there can be two reasons for it:

1) The linedef conversion is not correct
2) There is a bug in the Legacy linedef routines.

Errors of type 1) are really simple to fix once identified.
So, if you want to be really helpful, whenever you find some linedeftype-related glitch,
please first check whether the conversion is OK. Here you can find the conversion table (in Excel format):

http://www.hut.fi/u/vberghol/doom/doom_linedefs.zip

[Danimetal]

Would it be possible to post it in another format?. I don´t have Excel and I suppose there are more people that don´t.

[MR_ROCKET]

Here ya go, I converted it to html format. I'm not sure if this is how it looked in Excel though.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/linedefs_legacyalpha2.htm

[Danimetal]

Only Smite-Meister can tell... Or anyone with excel... I´d love to help but, how do we use this table?. God, If I can´t figure that out maybe it´s better to stay home :p.

[Graf_Zahl]

Yeah, that's the same rendering error I saw. If you look at Graf_Zahl's post above, he states that it happens in the standard Doom engine as well, so it's just something carried over from it.


Yes, it's definitely the same effect, although it looks far more pronounced here.

[smite-meister]

Would it be possible to post it in another format?. I don´t have Excel and I suppose there are more people that don´t.
No problem, here's the link to the current conversion table in the CVS:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/resources/doom2hexen.txt?view=markup
The first column is the Doom linedef type to be converted.
The second column is the Hexen type it is converted into, followed by the five Hexen args.
The final column has the activation rule (Use, Cross, Impact, Monsters, 1 (once), Repeatedly).

[Danimetal]

About the linedef conversion... I guess that would be really easy to make a map that replicates each one of the linedefs effects, first in Doom and then in Heretic, so there´s only to do a run in that map and see what is wrong. Would it be necessary to do another for Doom2?. I hope Boom extensions are out of this...

I´m starting to make a small map for this purpose.

[MR_ROCKET]

You mean Hexen. :P
Yeah I'm gonna be checkin this stuff out tonight for sure heh.

oh yeah, has anyone been having a problem with mouse movement?
I have a usb mouse and my forward key binded to my mouse 2. when I move forward and move the mouse its self forward also, the movement of the mouse seems to cancel out my mouse2 forward button and sometimes even go backwards.

The moving forward key is fine - it makes the player move forward, until i move the mouse forward or backwards.
I dont get this problem in 1.42 c version.

[Danimetal]

Errr... I think I mean Hexen:

When loading Doom or Heretic levels, Legacy internally converts the linedefs into a Hexen-like system
(with some ZDoom extensions). If some linedef effect is not what you expect, there can be two reasons for it:
He´s asking us to check if all linedefs in Doom and Heretic work fine, ain´t he?. Well, that´s why I suggested making a map with all the linedefs. Just load and test, I think it´s faster than playing through every level :). Still, I´ve got work to do, does anybody else want to share the job?. I could do linedefs 1-100 in 24 hours, if anyone else wishes to (supposing this method is worth) he can take 100-200 and such :). Then there are the Heretic linedefs...

And well, I don´t get the problem with the mouse... Have you checked the "Mouse move" option?.

Off topic: Mr.Rocket, any news about the Legacy Megagad project?. I´d PM you but your inbox is full!.



Edit: I did an example map from lindefs 1 to 50... Here´s the link: http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground1-55.zip
It´s Doom, E1M1. Sorry for it looking like real crap, I´m in a hurry :P.

[Aliotroph?]

Hmm, I'll have to play this some time soon. I think I gave the Linux one a go before, but I can't even remember now. I know one of my Linux installs has a copy of some version of Legacy.

[Nuxius]

When the game starts, the player is looking east (angle value 0). On following levels the player looks at the same direction he was looking at the end of the previous level.Ahhh, O.K., that puts some other things I was noticing into perspective now (like me looking up or down when I started a level). Thanks for clearing that up for me. :)


Nice work on that map, danimetal. :) I had to alter a few things in it though (like #37 and #50) and changed a few other things for clarity sake. I'll upload the one I modified in a bit.

[Danimetal]

Please, do it. I was so in a rush when I did it that surely made lots of mistakes, for example, #50 is really a nasty one ;). I hope I can carry until #100 next time, that´s a lot of work on linedefs I´ve never used!.

[Nuxius]

Blah, sorry it took me so long, work called me out right after I posted that. >_<

Anyway, I'm back, here's the one I modified a bit. Only problem I believe that remains is none of the lowering ceilings have an upper texture, but I personally don't think it matters.

http://doomrisen.deep-ice.com/legacy/ground1-55.zip

I can try to help you with it, but it will have to wait until tomorrow perhaps, because I'm a bit busy with some other stuff at the moment. If you do get a chance to work on it, be sure you post it, so I don't end up doing something you already did. (ha! that would suck)

[Danimetal]

O.k. I´ll take to linedef #100 and then release it. If you wish to help with it, please, could you post what you´re gonna take?. Just in case someone else joins or to coordinate our efforts :).

Oh, one more thing. Seems this prealpha doesn´t like custom textures, that´s why I used the ugly numbers on the floor. I think I just left the templates for them in the map I released, in case you don´t want to waste time making them :P.

Edit: I forgot to mention: is there any printable list of linedefs´ functions around?. I only found this http://drsleep.newdoom.com/linedef.html and it´s not in a correlative order, but grouped by functions (we could have just used this approach to it). A list would be useful to compare what happens with what it´s supposed to happen. For now, the better thing we have is what Hurdler posted and Mr.Rocket translated, the link is just above.

[Nuxius]

What does it do with custom textures for you? Out of curiuosity, I tried Scythe 2 with it, and all the custom textures (in the first level at least) appeared fine for me.

Anyway, the numbers you did are fine. And yeah, you left the template in.

As far as numbers go, I'll take 100-150 then.

[Ebola]

I got these errors with a map by me. and then it crashed.
Reading MapInfo...
Unknown command 'interpic' before char 135!
Unknown command 'consolecmd' before char 159!
Unknown command 'consolecmd' before char 191!

with these messages:
doom offsets: 0, 65535
heretic offsets: 0, 0
hexen offsets: 0, 0
I_ShutdownSound: shut down
Shutting down joysticks.
Joystick subsystem closed cleanly.

And when I try to run nimrod it just crash instantly.

[iori]

well FS isn't even implimented yet, IIRC.

[Danimetal]

Maybe the interpic lump and console commands in FS are not implemented. I don´t know why but I think the consolecmd has been renamed to runcommand or something like that. Don´t trust me in that, I´m just trying to remember what I read when I typed "Help" in the console!.

About nimrod, does it crash or just doesn´t load?. When I try any wad with custom textures it just does nothing.

[iori]

consolecmd is a [levelinfo] function.

[Ebola]

It crashes hard.

[Danimetal]

consolecmd is a [levelinfo] function.

I don´t really know what that means... Anyhow, Ebola, I don´t think this alpha is good for everyday playing yet. Have you tried another custom maps?.

[Danimetal]

Sorry for this doble posting but here´s the triggers from 55 to 100. Sure there are loads of mapping bugs, but in a hurry again.
It´s for E1M2. This time I tried to stick to some theme: determined kind of "switches" mean Repeatable, others "once", as well as different textures try to point to something. It´s easy to see once you play it, sure. Looks like crap again. Here´s the link:

http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground55-100.zip

Again, if you see something odd or not working just modify it. I´ve never used much of these linedefs. Oh!. One more things, numbers in blue either means that DoomBuilder says this is "unknown" or that I don´t know what it is.

Also I found a link with a linedef list by number:

http://drsleep.newdoom.com/linedef2.html

That´s all. Thanks for your time.

PS: Only a few regular Doom linedefs to go... Shall we do the extended ones too?.

[Aliotroph?]

Here are some things I noticed. I'll try not to be repetitive:

-sound is very "crunchy" for all sounds I don't think I could find a setting that did anything to this. I had the DirectSount thing turned off

-a palette shift could always be seen drawing across the screen. This looks neat when you get shot, almost like the dropping blood effect in Goldeneye 64. Also happens with item pickup

-If I picked up two items quicky, I could get it to shift colours for the bonus green flash, and then it would shift into blue and stick. Everything was blue! Neat! Oddly enough, it doesn't draw that way in screenshots even though most things would look blue until I picked up something or got shot. If anyone knows a program I could use to grab the screen instead of doing it from Legacy, it would be useful. :)

-Config seems to work, except for the options in the main option screen, which don't get saved.

[Planky]

To me the sound is much better than the old version, crisper, rather than 'crunchy'.

Alio, use Fraps (http://www.fraps.com).

[Nuxius]

Yeah, the sounds have a lot of static in them for me as well. For some of the sounds, I think the effect is kinda neat, imps, for example have a cybernetic-esque sound. For some of the others, it just sounds like I'm listening to them on a transistor radio with bad reception.

[Planky]

Bug: When you change the view size (with + or -), the screen melt animation plays, before changing the view size.

[smite-meister]

And when I try to run nimrod it just crash instantly.
I'll try this myself and fix the interpic and consolecmd bugs (you were right, they were not yet implemented.)

sound is very "crunchy" for all sounds
There's a bug in the sound system which caused the sounds to become clipped when the
output samplerate was raised to 22 kHz. We're looking into it.

Only a few regular Doom linedefs to go... Shall we do the extended ones too?
If you feel up to it, please do :)
I'm sure some other source port coders will find the testing map useful too.
Have you found out any wrongly converted linedeftypes yet?

[Danimetal]

@Smite-Meister:

Yes, there are linedefs wrongly converted (oh, crushers!), in fact Nuxius and I have been working on linedefs 1 to 100 and there are some that don´t work nicely. I can´t get their numbers right now, but please Smite-Meister, if you feel like it, you can play these in some minutes and get the errors. The maps are up there for anyone who wishes to try.

This is E1M1
http://doomrisen.deep-ice.com/legacy/ground1-55.zip

This is E1M2
http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground55-100.zip

Nuxius is taking linedefs 100-150 so I´ll take 151-200 and hopefully more when finished. I hope we can do this work :).

Finally, the extended linedefs are those with "Ext" before their description in the list you posted?. I was referring to them, but maybe you are referring to the boom extensions (scary, from 290 to 20000 kinds of linedefs :P!!).

@Nuxius:

It won´t get new textures for me... I tried with two separate wads and embedding the textures in ground1-55 itself, and it would just not load, nor crash, simply wouldn´t do anything!. How is 100-150 doing ;)?.

[smite-meister]

About the wrong linedef conversions:
It seems almost all lifts have wrong speeds, because boomref.txt (which I used as a reference) is not very accurate about them *eek*
Jim Flynn's linedef reference suffers from the same problem.
I checked the correct speeds from the original Doom source, they will be fixed in the next release.

[Danimetal]

Also, all crushers seem to start from the floor height, it doesn´t care their original ceiling height...

Oh!. Also, here´s the testing grounds for 151-200 :):
http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground151-200.zip
There may be some missing textures due to DoomBuilder deleting them.

That makes for 200 linedefs for testing once Nuxius posts his 100-150 work. There´s only 100 more to go in Doom if we don´t count the strange Boom calculations. I´ll go for 201-290 next :D (which means using 3d floors and Fragglescript)... In these, there are a few that annoy me, guess they must be the new stuff:

282:Set colormap / fog
283 Fog sheet
284 Brightens everything behind the line. Turns things kinda green though
285 Less brightness with allot less green.
286 Darkens a little with no green tint.
287 Brightens but with no green tint.
288 Selective translucency. Only certain colors are translucent.

Nuxius, if you want to, you could start with Heretic... In the list that Smite-Meister posted, there are only 107 linedefs... Is this correct?.

Off to study now.

[smite-meister]

There's no need to do full test maps for Heretic linedefs.
In Heretic, there are only eight linedeftypes which are different from Doom: 10, 49, 88, 99, 100, 105, 106 and 107.

284 Brightens everything behind the line. Turns things kinda green though
Probably the worst piece of documentation ever :D
284-288 apply different pregenerated translucency maps to everything that is seen through the linedef.
You can think of it as a strange colored glass sheet.

283 applies a colormap similarly (though I have no idea where the colormap comes from... anyone?)

282 generates a custom colormap depending on the texture names, which are interpreted as hexadecimal codes.

[Ebola]

I wanna add that Nimrod crashed as the port was loading. So no FS or anything such could have been started. Maybe it's the dehacked.

[Ebola]

Tried it in Hexen:
-Small objects like leafs (from the trees) and splinters of glass cause scorche marks on walls.
-Trees that can be destroyed will move around when you attack them.
-The Hexen jumping and such sounds are using the legacy specific sounds instead.

I have a question:
How much work would it mean to convert a wad like Phobia or Nimrod to the Hexen format and such?

[Aliotroph?]

Looks like I need to get my brother to show me some stuff about Fraps, because I think I broke it. :p

I'm amazed at what things do work. Some things like translucent 3D floors actually look pretty good in software, even with a couple of them overlapping.

I noticed something interesting today. I tried out Mystic's Isis.wad, which is a really huge Egyption-themed map with tall textures and lots of things like 3D floors and water. This is one of those maps you have to allocatw 64MB for or 1.42 crashes badly. It worked other than the teleports that are activated like doors, which didn't do anything.

One thing was weird though: I could walk through walls! For something small like a pillar, I could walk right through. For bigger spaces I could walk into the void but not out on the other side. This behaviour wasn't very consistent either. Certain walls would let me in only enough to look as though I was standing really close while others didn't seem solid at all.

Strange bug methinks.

[smite-meister]

How much work would it mean to convert a wad like Phobia or Nimrod to the Hexen format and such?
Depends on how you do it. I'm sure someone has written a converter program that does it automatically, but
it might not understand the Legacy-specific linedefs etc.
Remember also that in a Hexen map you have only 255 different tags available. If you have lots of 3D floors,
you may run out of them.
BTW, why would you want to convert them in the first place?

P.S.
If you want to update Phobia and Nimrod, I would suggest adding MAPINFO lumps conforming to the
upcoming JDS spec (if we get it finished:)) and replacing some DeHackEd stuff with BEX.
If you want any advice here, just ask me.

[Ebola]

Well, the dehacked stuff works just dandy in Zdoom aswell so I don't think there's any need for that. But I also have no idea what BEX do or how you do it.

Well, isn't it so that if I use the hexen format I can add poly objects? But I can't do that w/o it. And if I convert the scripts to ACS instead of FS it'll be more stable since FS isn't precompiled and have a tendancy to on some rare occations ignore some of the commands in a script. (very rare but it happens) Also, if the map is already in the Hexen format, wouldn't it be faster to load it? and on top of that, it'd be nice if you could use Legacy to convert the wad to hexen format. Like in Doom3, you can move around moveables in the map in game runtime and then save the map with the moveables in the position you made them fall. (this makes for more realistic spread of various debries). Same goes for textures, but I'm not gonna go into that as it's way to much explaning needed.
Anyway, how about you could save the conversion Legacy do of the wad aswell?

EDIT: it'd be great if the music would be saved in savegames in the new version of Legacy, it's kinda important actually.

[Danimetal]

Remember also that in a Hexen map you have only 255 different tags available..
Hmm... Is this Hexen format, Doom with Hexen stuff format or both?. I think that Legacy v1.42 can handle much more tags, why Hexen or Doom in Hexen format couldn´t?...
255 tags are a lot of them, but considering the agressive use of 3d floors that could be done (even more if the segment limits are enhanced) maybe they are somehow short. Shorter considering any other kind of linedef action that must be tagged.

[smite-meister]

Well, isn't it so that if I use the hexen format I can add poly objects?
Yeah, that's right. At least for now, later perhaps you can have polyobjs in Doom-format maps too.

And if I convert the scripts to ACS instead of FS it'll be more stable
I suppose so. The only reason why FS is more unstable is the buggy parser. If someone takes the time
to fix it, FS should be perfectly stable.

Also, if the map is already in the Hexen format, wouldn't it be faster to load it?
No. The internal runtime format is different from both the Doom and the Hexen "wadfile map formats".
Besides, the map loading times are almost nonexistent on today's machines.

and on top of that, it'd be nice if you could use Legacy to convert the wad to hexen format.
It would not be very hard to add a console command which would convert the currently loaded map
into Hexen format and write the linedefs and things lumps on the disk (the other lumps are similar in Doom
and Hexen). Then you could just use any WAD editor to replace the original lumps with the converted ones.

Like in Doom3, you can move around moveables in the map in game runtime and then save the map with the moveables in the position you made them fall. (this makes for more realistic spread of various debries). Same goes for textures, but I'm not gonna go into that as it's way to much explaning needed.
At least Doom Builder has a 3D mode where you can do all this. Textures included.

it'd be great if the music would be saved in savegames in the new version of Legacy, it's kinda important actually.
Do you mean just the name of the currently playing music piece or also how long it has been playing,
so it would continue from the exact same spot where it was when you saved the game?

[Ebola]

I suppose for 3d floors in hexen format, a method similar to that of Zdooms slopes would be in order, afaik they use things as a means to keep the tag cost down. or am I completely off the mark there?

Yeah, that's right. At least for now, later perhaps you can have polyobjs in Doom-format maps too.
Sounds nice.

I suppose so. The only reason why FS is more unstable is the buggy parser. If someone takes the time
to fix it, FS should be perfectly stable.
I'd like to help, but I can barely write FS scripts. ;) But I've heard that due to that it's not precompiled it'd causing lots of issues that it wouldn't have problems with before. But maybe that's just for when there's something wrong with a script. (easier for bugs to slip through or something)

No. The internal runtime format is different from both the Doom and the Hexen "wadfile map formats".
Besides, the map loading times are almost nonexistent on today's machines.
Heh, Not with my maps. :p

It would not be very hard to add a console command which would convert the currently loaded map
into Hexen format and write the linedefs and things lumps on the disk (the other lumps are similar in Doom
and Hexen). Then you could just use any WAD editor to replace the original lumps with the converted ones.
Sounds nice, I mean. what better prog to do the convertion than legacy itself.

At least Doom Builder has a 3D mode where you can do all this. Textures included.
I was just mentioning that as an example. I don't want to use Legacy for actual level editing. ;) Eventhough it would of course be nice with a feature like that, so you could fix any alignment errors when you spot them, instead of keeping to forget them.

Do you mean just the name of the currently playing music piece or also how long it has been playing,
so it would continue from the exact same spot where it was when you saved the game?
Well, just the name would be sufficent. Just so you can change the music with scripts etc, would alow for a lot more dynamic gameworld.

[Nuxius]

Also, all crushers seem to start from the floor height, it doesn´t care their original ceiling height...Only happens for the first level you activate a crusher on though. If you move on to the next level, crushers will act normal. IDCLEV back to that level, and crushers will act normal. It's strange. I made a note of it in one of my earlier posts.

Nuxius, if you want to, you could start with Heretic..No can do. I don't own Heritic (or Hexen for that matter).

As far as 100-150 goes, I've been working on it. Hopefully, bar any unforseen circumstances, I will be able to have it done tonight.

[Aliotroph?]

Well, Smite said Heretic only has a difference in 4 linedef types so danimetal can do those ones quickly. :)

DB doesn't seem to have support for editing sprites in 3D yet BTW. I think that feature is going into Slade, however.

255 seems like an obscenely small tag limit for a modern map. Must be a pain considering the size of some of the ZDoom maps I've seen.

[Danimetal]

255 seems like an obscenely small tag limit for a modern map. Must be a pain considering the size of some of the ZDoom maps I've seen.
Fully agree... I just think I try to said things politely.

Well, Smite said Heretic only has a difference in 4 linedef types so danimetal can do those ones quickly.

I will gladly do. I own Heretic :D.

[Ebola]

DB doesn't seem to have support for editing sprites in 3D yet BTW. I think that feature is going into Slade, however.

255 seems like an obscenely small tag limit for a modern map. Must be a pain considering the size of some of the ZDoom maps I've seen.

It sure do, have had it since the last version. Keep with the times. ;)
Well, 255 isn't too bad. And if they change the 3d floors to work with things instead. Then that'd fix that issue. FS doesn't really support scripts over 256 either for that matter. It works to use startscript(999); but not from a linedef, and it's more stable iirc to use the ones under 256.

[Graf_Zahl]

255 seems like an obscenely small tag limit for a modern map. Must be a pain considering the size of some of the ZDoom maps I've seen.


Not necessarily. In scripts the full range of 16-bit tags can be used - and even in large maps the number of directly used sector tags rarely exceeds 255. If you need them to define 3D-floors it might become a problem though. These have the tendency of eating tags like mad. For these line types it might be a good idea to use 2 argument bytes as a 16-bit tag.

[Ebola]

If you could use multiple tags on one sector, you would be able to reduce the ammount of tags that the 3d floors hog as you wouldn't need to "retag" the same 3d floor. It'd be much cleaner and easier to track aswell.

[Graf_Zahl]

If you could use multiple tags on one sector, you would be able to reduce the ammount of tags that the 3d floors hog as you wouldn't need to "retag" the same 3d floor. It'd be much cleaner and easier to track aswell.


*cough* ... new map format... *cough* :p

[Ebola]

Sweet ;)
Obviously I haven't looked hard enough at the Hexen level format.

[Nuxius]

Actions 100-150 can be found here:

http://doomrisen.deep-ice.com/legacy/ground100-150.zip

(note: yeah, I started on 100 when I should have started on 101; so I screwed up, deal with it :p)

Also, actions 143, 144, 148 and 149 are walk over actions, the reasons why switches are also there was that I was trying to figure out some bugs I found which I have listed below:


143 - W1 - Lift Raise by 24 (changes texture)
first pass: EXESPECIAL (203) , TAG 39 (255, 8, 0, 0, 24)
Does not change texture
Kills tag, no further actions with sector possible

144 - W1 - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
first pass: EXESPECIAL (203) , TAG 40 (255, 8, 0, 0, 32)
Does not remove effect
Kills tag, no further actions with sector possible

148 - WR - Lift Raise by 24 (changes texture)
first pass: EXESPECIAL (203) , TAG 43 (255, 8, 0, 0, 24)
subsequent passes: (same as above)
Does not change texture
Kills tag, no further actions with sector possible; includes repeating the action

149 - WR - Lift Raise by 24 (remove effect)
first pass: EXESPECIAL (203) , TAG 44 (255, 8, 0, 0, 32)
subsequent passes: (same as above)
Does not remove effect
Kills tag, no further actions with sector possible; includes repeating the action

[Danimetal]

Great nuxius!!!. I´ll get with the linedefs that are left after I get a meal :). It´s only 90 of them more, some of them will be even fun to do :P... The rest is only a matter of betatesting and fixing the linedefs, I guess... If everything was so easy as this...

[Clacker_Fiend]

Hi there, haven't posted in a long while, but I've been dropping in from time to time to check up on the port.

Glad to see an alpha version out. I hope you guys weren't rushed into it by all the grumbling about how late it was. Was gonna ask about the software mode thing but did some reading and found out it's not in there yet. Bummer. Oh well, I still have 1.42 and as far as I'm concerned that does it for me. I wish yall luck with the c++ version and hope to see a more stable version in the future. Great job so far *thumbs* .

[Nuxius]

Found a few more bugs

198 - G1 - Exit Level (goes to secret level)
I believe it gives out - ExeSpecial (74), tag 100 (100,0,0,0,0)
crashes Legacy


Which brings me to something else I've been noticing over time. Legacy exits the level too soon after you hit/shoot a switch. Normally, upon activating or shooting a switch, you would be able to see the texture change and the switch sound before exiting. In 1.99 alpha2, however, as soon as you hit the key to activate/shoot it, it exits.

Another thing that bugs me is that Enter will not bring up the menu on the title screen. So therefore I have to hit Esc, then hit Enter to go through the menus.

[PumpkinSmasher]

Ooo...a new alpha...Time for me to try.

[Ebola]

Best feature legacy ever had, you can navigate the menus with the mouse. I love that.
Speaking of the menu brings me to something else. When selecting a new game in Hexen there's this discolored menu option called Newgame that you can't select and below that there's this "New Mapinfo Game" which starts a new game.

Anyone care to explain the story behind this?

[smite-meister]

When selecting a new game in Hexen there's this discolored menu option called Newgame that you can't select and below that there's this "New Mapinfo Game" which starts a new game.
Anyone care to explain the story behind this?
It's a temporary quick hack for handling MAPINFO lumps in Doom and Heretic as well.
When I'll add support for the ZDoom-like game entrypoint ("episode") definitions in MAPINFO, it'll go away.
BTW, these can be a pretty cool addition, as you know if you've played some ZDoom maps which use them.

[Danimetal]

Sounds like a feature to be added... or something to be removed.

Can I add that more savegame slots would come in handy?... Also, is there any "Autosave" linedef function or something you can call from FS or ACS to save your game as happens in HL with the func_savegame trigger?. Would come quite handy with some projects (supposing it doesn´t crash ´cos of the scripts).

[Ebola]

Smite: Yeah I used Mapinfo when editing Skulltag.

Dani: ACS already has autosaving.

[Danimetal]

Thanks Ebola... This autosave feature would be really good for big maps, it´s something I missed in Legacy.

I´ve abandoned a little the work on linedef testing maps, I´ll try to come back to it soon, but periods of great activity for me are coming near... Has some testing been done by anyone?.

Also, I tried the Alpha with a custom wad... It didn´t gave much problem with FS, as well as the regular linedef problems. The messages, strangely, shown in the upper left part of the screen instead of in the center (if an align function has been added, welcome!. How about text colours :P?). I had an issue with 3d floors you´ve probably experimented: sometimes, when a monster is in front of a 3d bannister or over a 3d floor, the game renders the monster as being "Behind" the floor and not in front of it. I took two screenshots of it:

The monster behind the 3d floor: (http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/behind.txt)
The monster in front of it. (http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/front.txt)

It seems to depend on the angle. I had a nice view of a Baron of Hell against a bannister, but was not quick enough to kodak him. I don´t remember seeing this issue in software mode in 1.42 but being honest, I almost always play with OpenGl.

[Ebola]

Yeah, it happens and it's very rare. I remember when SoM made the 3d floors he was very troubled by the sprite sorting and there you see why. ;)

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah it does seem to work pretty well for the most part, although clear-cyan wall textures still seem to show up as noise.- this was an issue in 1.42's software also. also I guess fs header commands and auto run commands don't seem to be working. I played a few custom maps too, plexydome2 played pretty good until alot of monsters started spawning in. my q3dm17-remake worked, all the jump pads and 3dfloors where there, fs gravity wasn't, had to console edit the gravity or I would drop like a sack o' potatoes. and dehack kills the alpha.
I played some hexen for awhile also. its doing much better than the first alpha.
Yeah I always ran legacy in opengl to, thats what most people always liked about legacy, the opengl made it run so smooth and fast.

* I donno why, but I made a little zdoom slope wad, it has nothing in it but a room and few slopes. just to see what legacy would do with it - it crashed. I already knew these z-datatypes haven't been added yet, but oh damn that woulda been sweet :P
whats type 181 do in the alpha? i havnt checked, and will the line type be the same #?

* To see the bug I was talking about with the mouse in an earlier post, you would have to disable mouse-look and turn the y axis up a bit.

offtopic - danimetal : yep the legacy community wad project has died. the coordinator kind of disappeared for a few months and the discussion forum never got any updates other than by me and you. so I guess just release your wad solo. sorry I have to do the same :\
oh btw I emptied my inbox.

[Danimetal]

Wads with custom textures work so strange for me... I can´t run the custom textures with numbers (just to illustrate the linedefs instead of doing so with sectors forming numbers) but I can run and play, for example, Scythe2 without a problem. Also tried one of my own wads with new textures and it worked (with some exceptions, like playerweapon FS function not working and crashing a few seconds before) so guess I was wrong in that point.

Are those FS functions gonna change their names?. I don´t suppose so for backwards compatibility, but I found it strange not recognising that function. Guess is not added yet.

Mr.Rocket, these z-datatypes... I suppose that Legacy would look at those linedef numbers not as slopes but as anything else according to its own datatypes... But agree, it would have been sweet if they worked by surprise.

Offtopic again - So sad the project died... Maybe it should be revived when V2.0 comes out?. I never got to see any other wads for the project, but I guess I´ll modify mine´s and release it as a multiplayer-single player wad (that would imply lots of changes in the monsters).

[smite-meister]

my q3dm17-remake worked, all the jump pads and 3dfloors where there, fs gravity wasn't
What? Does the command "gravity = 80" really mean 80% gravity? *confused*
I always assumed it would be "gravity = 0.8"...

whats type 181 do in the alpha? i havnt checked, and will the line type be the same #?

It shouldn't do anything (you would get an "unhandled line special" message).

[Danimetal]

One question... Are the BEX extensions added?. Not that I´m trying to use this alpha to actually make something, but we could also test Dehacked stuff... Oh, and yet another question. Smite-Meister, I asked some time ago about the possibility of actually setting the frame something is from FS or ACS (for example, setting the missile attack for an imp when you actually want to and not when the game wants... though I actually wanted it to make "realistic" weapon reloads the kind "If the clip is empty, don´t go to the firing frame and get back to the bobbing one"). I got the answer "That shouldn´t be hard to do" so I just wanted to know if it has a possibility of being done.

Thanks.

[smite-meister]

Are the BEX extensions added?
Yes. You can find an example DeHackEd file which uses some new features here (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/example.deh?view=auto)

I just wanted to know if it has a possibility of being done.
Yes, but I think any extensions to FS should be first be carefully thinked through, so we'll not end up with
any more incredibly cryptic stuff like the camera functions, for example.

[MR_ROCKET]

What? Does the command "gravity = 80" really mean 80% gravity? *confused*
I always assumed it would be "gravity = 0.8"...
Yeah thats what it is.
In fraggle gravity = 80 and gravity .8 or 000000.8 as a console command.
The gravity console command works fine though.
Has the fs command changed in the alpha or just not in there yet?

Also noticed Setcorona isn't working going buy the console message, even though theres no way to test it until hardware render is added.

Oh btw, old dehack? seems to be somewhat working, "the text messages work" heh.
-YOU PICKED UP THE RAILGUN!-

Speaking of which, I just checked out some of the dehack additions.
Thing 31 # Barrels are converted into a new type of item!
Bits = SPECIAL
Missile damage = 1 # script number to run when a player touches it

This was kinda neat when I ran map23 barrels o fun, and "picked up" all the barrels.
I donno I must have big back pockets and you know that totally pissed the mancubus off.
At level start it kinda freaked me out when I saw his big fat ass squeeze between those barrels.:)

heh this looks like a flag carrier hack maybe.
or "Im sorry you must insert a quarter to enter this region".
-YOU FOUND A QUARTER!-

[Danimetal]

Thing 31 # Barrels are converted into a new type of item!
Bits = SPECIAL
Missile damage = 1 # script number to run when a player touches it
Coolest thing ever... Great powerups and pickups will be done with this, I tell you :D. Also, the use of BEX codepointers will add new ways to Doom Legacy, this is gonna be really exciting!!.
Yes, but I think any extensions to FS should be first be carefully thinked through, so we'll not end up with
any more incredibly cryptic stuff like the camera functions, for example.
Great. That´s O.k with me. There´s enough in BEX to keep us entertained for a long while so if this kind of thing must be thinked through, be it... It could be like the next step to this whole codepointer stuff and I don´t know why, but it seems to me as it if has something in common with the decorate lump (maybe I´m wrong on this).

[MR_ROCKET]

So who wants to make a rail gun? heh, I remember that being one of the best things about bex.

[smite-meister]

Has the fs command changed in the alpha or just not in there yet?
If it were up to me, I'd change it, but I guess we should maintain backwards compatibility. Fixed.

There was also a bug in DeHackEd connected to weapon states, but it's fixed now, and the railgun in MRQ3DM17.wad works too :)

[Danimetal]

and the railgun in MRQ3DM17.wad works too
I thought the railgun was a Zdoom extension...
If it were up to me, I'd change it, but I guess we should maintain backwards compatibility
Though backwards compatibility is very important I think you can change it and maintain the old command for backwards compatibility, can´t you?... Still, it could look like a waste of code.

Edit: There is a somehow irritating bug in Legacy v1.42 that, at least, happened in my computer. If I bind the key "C" to some script running (ar presumibly to anything else) I can´t do the idClev cheat.In the same fashion, binding "Q" and trying some iddQd woudn´t work and so on with the rest of the letters. I´m posting this here to see if happens to anyone else but me and to discuss what could be done about it in Legacy v2.0.

[Planky]

I thought the railgun was a Zdoom extension...

It is a bex patch, that ran on zdoom (and anything else that supported bex).

[MR_ROCKET]

Not to be confuse, the railgun in my wad was just some standard dehack stuff that made the shotgun shoot all of its ammo at once. then I just changed its sprites.
Smite was saying the problem or one of the problems with dehack was activating weapon states. But he fixed it, so now it works and doesn't crash when used. which kicks ass! heh
Smite, I am ready for the alpha2 patch! :P, kidding.

But yeah railgun.bex is sorta a zdoom labeled extension. I think it came with zdoom since 1.22.
That doesn't mean there can't be a new bex railgun made though?
I'v never really done much dehack, so i most likely wont be the one making it heh, even though the graphic would probably be the hardest part about it. Unless there was? some hard codeing in zdoom for it.

[iori]

Well it used zdoom's particle engine. The math for the spiral isn't really that hard. In fact, you could do something like that now with sprites and FS.

[MR_ROCKET]

Ok cool, I'll keep that in mind, throw it on the backburner and maybe have a real bex railgun in MRQ3DM17 one day heh. screw the sprites heh, i'd do a fadeing corona thing if possible.
For now I'm gonna tinker with some bex stuff and bug reports.
Smite since the dehack fix, how's Nimrod running?

[Danimetal]

The math for the spiral isn't really that hard. In fact, you could do something like that now with sprites and FS.
What about particles?. It was said Legacy was going to get some particle system (inherited from Hexen, I guess?)... Also, it will be possible with FS but what about ACS?. I always thought they had more or less the same commands so, am I going wrong here?.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah I was wondering about the particles and acs too.

CLEAR texture bug thingy.
I still haven't found what causes the noise in clear cyan textures in software mode.
in both 1.42 and the alpha the clear textures still show up as what looks like a stretched out palette.
though the texture looks fine (in opengl) - it's clear like it should be.

Get this though ( in a map I made a few years ago, mrbmdm.wad the clear texture will look fine in both hardware and "software" modes.) even though the map was built around corona reflections via clear texture "for opengl", at least in this case the clear texture "looked right in software" mode.

I used the same clear texture from mrbmdm.wad and patched it into a test wad, it showed up as noise. what's up with this? does it have to do with alignments from a node build? - sometimes I'v seen after running a node build a texture will show up as a double image split in the middle, even though it has no vertex's in the middle of it. However thats an easy editing fix, could the same sorta thing be the problem with clear textures and I'm just not able to see it? if someone could help me figure this stumpper out, I'd look forward to seeing it's fix in the next alpha build. *grin*

http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/cleartexture_test1.zip
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/Files/MRBMDM.zip

[smite-meister]

Smite since the dehack fix, how's Nimrod running?
Better, the scripts work. Not perfect yet, for example there's still something wrong with
the arachnotrons (they walk through walls, probably a BLOCKMAP glitch).

It was said Legacy was going to get some particle system
You can make your own particle systems with scripting, take a look at the
breaking stained-glass windows in Hexen Winnowing Hall for example. All done using ACS.
Combined with the RunACS or RunFS codepointers, you can for example do projectiles
which emit particle showers, coronas or whatever.

We probably won't add any dedicated particle systems to Legacy since scripting is almost
always a better choice. When the new OpenGL renderer gets done, we can certainly add new blending effects etc. which enable you to make even flashier stuff.

[Danimetal]

I´ve been fooling around a little with the pick-up stuff (I would with FS or ACS (if I learn it) if I knew the codepointer´s names... Are they RunACS and RunFS?. Any others?) and I´ve come with an idea you would like to consider. As always, I don´t know how hard or easy it could be to implement... Let´s see:

Now you can pick up everything (maybe imps will crash :P) and run a script when it happens. Fooling around with this and supposing we´re getting all the Doom, Hexen and Heretic things, lots of pickups can be done, thus, lots of scripts are consumed. It´s non likely to reach the 254 or 255 limit (or was it 256?) but a way to keep things clean would be an addition to the pickup system. If you could pass an argument (or several) along with the script you could do something like this:

Thing 31 # Barrels are converted into a new type of item! We know this.
Bits = SPECIAL
Speed or something else = 1 # argument to be passed to the script.
Missile damage = 1 # script number to run when a player touches it

Thing 32 # Whatever.
Speed or something else = 2 # argument to be passed to the script.
Bits = SPECIAL
Missile damage = 1 # script number to run when a player touches it

and then:

script 1
{
if (argument==1)
{message("CONGRATULATIONS, YOU PICKED UP A BARREL!!!");
if (argument==2)
{message("WOW!!. YOU PICKED UP SOMETHING ELSE!!");
}


The argument thing could be something optional in the syntax, but could help keeping things clear. I suppose it would need changes on the pickup system and FS (the addition of this permanent variable or something... Probably much more). Also, does this system work with ACS scripts?... Of course, this is all a suggestion of enhancement :). I know there are lots of things to be done.

Thanks.

[MR_ROCKET]

Yeah thats sorta what i was getting at in that previous post made.
When the locked door requires a a coin for entry. "YOU FOUND A QUARTER!" :)

Now if we had the hexen thing types included in Things.h

#include "zcommon.acs"
script 1 OPEN
{
Thing_Spawn(3C_FIRESTORM,x,y,z);
}
script 2
}
if (argument==2)
{message("You found the Railgun!");
}

This script isnt right I know but kind of an example to. with some sprite changing it could be the begining of a railgun heh.
ok maybe if it was in Things.h :P At least the weapons for now Smite ! heh, kidding - ok maybe not. :)

For stuff like this to work in doom though, wont we need a doom2hax.wad or a resource wad with both Doom and Hexen in it, like what zdoom has to do.

[Danimetal]

For stuff like this to work in doom though, wont we need a doom2hax.wad or a resource wad with both Doom and Hexen in it, like what zdoom has to do.
In answer to your question (if it´s one and if I know what I´m saying) I remember Smite-Meister stating that you had to provide the sounds and sprites for these things... The fun part it that doesn´t seem legal to go around with a wad containing this.

Also, I didn´t read your other post dude, but the possibilities are just endless and awesome :). Some hack could be made like everything running the script and the script discriminating what have you picked up with your coordinates (works for small amounts of objects, but not for large amounts of bonuses :D). The argument method seems far more convenient, anyhow... Still, there´s always the possibility of doing one script for each pickup.

[MR_ROCKET]

Hey yeah I know man, the pickup item run script does have some endless possibilities.
give it some time and people will be bustin out some crazy long scripts with it. :P

oh about the doom2hak.wad, its not something that should or even need to be floating around on the net. you just convert your doom2 wad using a dos based utility called zdwadconv.exe. all it seems to do is add behavior lmp's to your doom2 wad and somehow it gives you the ability to have both a standard doom resource + some hexen data types while editing in a doom2 based environment. as long as your editors configuration files understand that too. hehe

I'm half tempted to make a legacydoomhexen editor cfg file and try using the doom2hak.wad as its resource. just haven't yet heh - but I do have a legacy hexen dm map started, maybe Smite could use it to test the netcode out sometime :P

[Danimetal]

Ohh... I see, it´s not a matter of *ahem* ripping sprites but to have Hexen data :). I bet a file for Doom Builder will be released for that matter as there´s a "ZDoom in Hexen format" when Legacy comes out and it´s noticed.

but I do have a legacy hexen dm map started, maybe Smite could use it to test the netcode out sometime :P
Just say it loud, you may be heard ;).

[MR_ROCKET]

Danimetal your mind is in the gutter, why would you want to ripp sprites out of hexen when the entry could be replaced with a custom image? hehe

Yeah that's what I figured about Doom Builder also.
I'll try and make a cfg, but not for db because it has a bug with hexen.

[Danimetal]

Danimetal your mind is in the gutter
Completely agree ;)... Nah, I was thinking of playing a mix of Doom and Hexen, thus I needed the sprites.

[QUOTE]but not for db because it has a bug with hexen.[QUOTE]
Getting off-topic but... What is it?.

[MR_ROCKET]

Well load Hexen.wad for Hexen game editing in db and you'l see, once you start textureing your hexen map. db crashes with the same texture name problem its had for awhile now. runtime error '9' burnz hole in monitor.

I fixed up a legacydoomhexen.wcf for wad author that seems to be working so far..
Anyhows this is off topic, maybe we should start a legacy hexen editing thread.

[smite-meister]

if I knew the codepointer´s names... Are they RunACS and RunFS?
No, the (preliminary, currently working) names are StartWeaponFS, StartWeaponACS, StartFS and StartACS.
The tics field of the frame carries the script number, and the sprite and frame fields could be used for storing
parameters for the script. (The duration of the state with a StartXXX codepointer is always zero).

If you could pass an argument (or several) along with the script you could do something like this:
Thing 31 # Barrels are converted into a new type of item! We know this.
Bits = SPECIAL
Speed or something else = 1 # argument to be passed to the script.
Missile damage = 1 # script number to run when a player touches it
You have to choose the fields where you store the script number and possible arguments for the SPECIAL pickups
very carefully so that they do not interfere with other flags.
The only fields that seem relatively "safe" are (in my opinion too) missile damage and speed (they're basically read-only during the game),
which means that a SPECIAL cannot be a MISSILE (uses both damage and speed) or use certain monster
codepointers (which use speed) very easily.

Edit: Of course, you can always just ignore the parameters in the script. This way you could maybe
have monsters which you can pick up, kind of Pacman Doom *grin*

[Danimetal]

No, the (preliminary, currently working) names are StartWeaponFS, StartWeaponACS, StartFS and StartACS.
The tics field of the frame carries the script number, and the sprite and frame fields could be used for storing
parameters for the script. (The duration of the state with a StartXXX codepointer is always zero).


So, are they working?. Maybe we could add some of this stuff to the testing linedefs maps :).
The argument thing is quite promising. Providing you could either ignore or take the argument in the script you make all sort of things and pickups with it :).

[smite-meister]

Yes, they should work, but you cannot give the scripts arguments yet.
In ACS the arguments are straightforward to do, but currently FS has no support for calling scripts with arguments.

[MR_ROCKET]

Heh about the pacman doom thing. It might be neat to make a map sometime where all the dead player bodies can be picked up, and then have some scoring system with them at the end level.
sorta like a hostage rescue :P

[Danimetal]

Yes, they should work, but you cannot give the scripts arguments yet.
In ACS the arguments are straightforward to do, but currently FS has no support for calling scripts with arguments.

Then, if you see fit and for testing purposes, I will add them to the linedefs test maps... Could be tricky with all those FS "inconsistences" around, but let´s see what can be done :).

[Danimetal]

All right, the last of the testing levels for linedefs are done... I remark as interesting:

3d water doesn´t seem to work... Nah, maybe it´s only me and I didn´t do it right.
I haven´t been able to make the "Transparent green stuff" linedefs work (¿?¿?¿?).
Surely there are as much missing textures as you can handle (not my fault, I put them and they go :P).
The transparent 3d floor is not in the list. Neither is the invisible one.
Colourmaps didn´t work. Again, maybe me and my rushing.

So here it is: http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground201-290.zip . If you feel like it and use an editor that doesn´t delete "Unused" textures just fix it :). Also, if you know how linedefs that don´t do anything (for example, 290) work, do it too :).

I will try to make a small Heretic test with the linedefs if I find the different numbers again... I´ll try FS codepointers if need to be tested.

[smite-meister]

Nice work. How about adding also the rest of the Legacy-specific linedefs to the map, i.e. 290, 291, 300-305?
290 and 291 instantly raise or lower the tagged floors when the map starts. Dunno what they are used for.
300-305 are different types of 3D floors.

The linedefs 284-288 require a middle texture to apply the transmap on.
The "fog sheet" linedef 283 requires a colormap somewhere but no texture, I guess. Has anyone ever used it?
Oh yeah, the stairbuilders lack lower textures for the steps:)

BTW, the map crashed during loading due to a bug in the FS parser, but I fixed it. Will work in alpha3.

[Danimetal]

Nice work. How about adding also the rest of the Legacy-specific linedefs to the map, i.e. 290, 291, 300-305?
290 and 291 instantly raise or lower the floor when the map starts. Dunno what they are used for.
300-305 are different types of 3D floors.
At your command, Smite-Meister. Soon they will be also available, it´s only that I didn´t see them in the list Mr.Rocket converted.

The linedefs 284-288 require a middle texture to apply the transmap on.
Understood. Will also be. I´ll try the colormap in 283 as usually (lower texture in first linedef)... And yes, the stairs always do that, seems that Doom Builder doesn´t like me :P.

Oh, one last question... I´m doing some dehacked work with codepointers but I find myself completely lost. The only thing I know is that:

CODEPTR

FRAME 457 = StartFS
Would make a script run when I kill an imp... How do I set the rest of the stuff (like the script number itself?).

Edit:
BTW, the map crashed during loading due to a bug in the FS parser, but I fixed it. Will work in alpha3.
So, that´s why it refuses to load?. I wasn´t able to test it when I added the new linedefs... Also, Alpha3?. There´s an Alpha2?. Where have I been?.

[smite-meister]

How do I set the rest of the stuff (like the script number itself?).

Try this (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/doomlegacy/doomlegacy_c%2B%2B/docs/example.deh?view=auto). It's an extension to the standard Frame definition syntax, but pretty obvious.
This way you can define all the stuff in the same place.

Since the CVS takes a while to get updated, here's the same thing directly:

Frame 457 # Dying imp runs a FraggleScript
Codep = StartFS
Duration = 2 # script number to run

[Danimetal]

All right, that was what I needed to know. I hope there´s no bug in the FS parser since I´m after this now :). Thanks Smite-Meister.

Oh!. I updated the map. One of the waters still gives HOM, the linedef fog is not working and well, line 305 doesn´t seem to do a thing... If there´s anything else to fix just tell me :). Here it is the new thing (Heretic next, if needed): http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground201-305.zip.
I just removed the FS in them, so the FS linedefs won´t work. I´ll add them later as soon as I know they won´t crash the map anymore :).

Edit: I managed to do something with the codepointers... I tried to set it to the imp´s attack and he won´t attack (it´s fun, he moves like he´s going to scare you :P) but neither the script will run... Maybe it´s some bug on Alpha1. The pickups work wonders :). Also, it´s possible to do

Frame xxx # Whatever
Codep = StartFS
Duration = 2 # script number to run
with codepointers whose original state is NULL?.

[smite-meister]

Yes, and you can also erase existing codepointers by using the syntax
Frame zzz
Codep = NULL

BTW, If you want FS to work in the alpha2, you can circumvent the parser bug by adding at least one newline after the last script.

[Danimetal]

All right :). Added to the map and uploaded it again at the same url http://www.geocities.com/danimarlboro/hosted/ground201-305.zip , now FS works :) (I think DB deleted the stair case textures also)... Now it´s only a matter of playing the maps and notice bugs over and over. I hope these maps are useful for the Legacy development, as well as for other source ports if they want to get a hold of our work :).

By the way, I noticed that gun and switch triggers do not make any sound when running a FS script.

Still I haven´t been able to make the script run when I kill an imp. Not that I have tried much, but it´s like the script is not called or something like that (I can run the same script when I pick an item). I hope I´m not being too thick on this thread, now that I notice how much I´m posting!.

PS: I know this is no place for feature requests but, how about a way to use custom crosshairs?.

[MR_ROCKET]

And heres the doom2 version of it, although no fs.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/legexn_doom2_201-305.zip

And here's one I was screwing around with, also for doom2 but has some hexen types.
It's just a little 2 room map..run with the alpha2 and doom2.
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/wadauthor_lcfg1.zip

edit, This is actually the test wad I made with the legacydoomhexen.wcf I fixed up in wad author. no 3d data types yet.

Costum crosshairs? is that pic_t format? or just a translucent hud sprite?. I havnt looked.

[Danimetal]

Just to put some life on this thread again... The custom crosshair could be even some kind of lump with the pic_t format... A translucent sprite could be also used, I don´t think there would be much of a difference. Anyway, it could be like:
ID=0
NAME=Dot
PICTURE=crosshairdot
ID=1
NAME=Skull
PICTURE=crosshairskull
ID=2
NAME=LOL
PICTURE=lolhair

A lump in a wad with the crosshair pictures, with an identification (some reserved for inner Legacy ones) and a name to use as a handle or something. You could run the wad and choose your new crosshairs :D. Again, this could be done with transparent huds once they work.

Mr.Rocket, I couldn´t run your map :(.

Also, one thing I forgot to say before... This is some kind of Legacy Feature but, what´s gonna happen with Lost Souls biting you through 3d floors :P?. And, though they can be made with tricks, we could use some 3d bridge object a la Zdoom or invisible, visible and transparent "Shoot through" 3d floors.

Finally, how is the project doing?. You have all my support :).

Edit: Something I just noticed... In v1.42 if you cross a W type line which ends the level, you get out of the level. It happens even if you´re dead :P!. I noticed that when testing a map of mine´s, I was blown away, crossed the line and, voila!, status screen and next map with 100% health. I think the weapons were gone.

[MR_ROCKET]

Mr.Rocket, I couldn´t run your map .
heh, strange I'v never had that complaint before.
You should be able to run it with (legacy alpha2 and doom2.wad.)
at least that's what I used for testing. works fine for me, although I do have a full patched version of doom2. you might want to check that stuff out.
Is anyone else having this problem?

oh btw, the reason for the doom2 version of your line def map was because all the textures in your map were blackened with noise in doom1.

[Danimetal]

Cool, just convert everything you want :D.
I´ll double check your map again, maybe I´m missing some obvious thing like the Iwad.

[Danimetal]

Sorry for this double posting but:
Cool, just convert everything you want .

This converting thing is related to an Irc conversation I had about ACS and FS. In this conversation came out the possibility to convert FS commands to ACS ones, or, better, to reinterpret each FS script with the ACS compiler so FS is stronger, faster and more reliable...

It would need of some custom ACS improvement, as new ACS commands would be needed to support the FS commands it lacks, but would also give a highly reliable backwards compatibility (since FS would be used as ACS, precompiled, stable in old maps). Also, all FS scripts would have to be auto-compiled when loading the map (either in a separate temp wad file or in the same one (if it´s not protected) wich could take some time).

Of course, and as always, I don´t know the possible implications or problems that this could bring. Also, I don´t know how much difficult would it be to code (Smite-Meister could tell and evaluate its convenience), but since it seemed something nice in the Irc conversation, it´s always good to see your opinions about this.

That´s all. Thanks for your time :).

[smite-meister]

I've managed to root out quite a few bugs from alpha2, so we'll probably release alpha3 next week. *thumbs*

Now at least the Linux version (but probably Win32 too :)) runs nimrod.wad, phobia.wad and hth2.wad
quite well (FS included), the corrupted animated textures are fixed etc.

I also added some of the features Ebola asked for, such as saving the currently playing music
and the "convertmap" console command for converting Doom and Heretic maps to Hexen format.

[xiO]

good stuff

[Danimetal]

Sweet... Shall we make more suggestions when Alpha 3 is out?. Maybe some will make it to the final version :P.

[MR_ROCKET]

Indeed this kicksass! nice work Smite, is the sound working better now?
And I want coronas in software modez! - kidding.
Seriously though a scalable window would be nice for software mode.


off-topic: yo xio could you hook me up with that SNL skit with the cowbell man?
I seem to have lost the other one whilth cleaning system. :\

[Danimetal]

is the sound working better now?
If you mean it sounding crispy it´s.... Like potato chips, a matter of taste :P. - Nah, kidding.

The software renderer... It´s the same than in Legacyv1.42, isn´t it?. How could it be modified so larger textures can be shown?. I don´t think much people use Software these days with the powerful computers around, but while the option to use it is there, shouldn´t it support almost the same things that hardware renderer (inside it´s limitations, of course)?.

[MR_ROCKET]

ah then you mean that the sound is so urber clean that our ears just cant grasp the ultra hi-fi wows and fludders? hence leaving us with a fine crunchy potato chip sound? :P
hmm no wonder i get the munchies every time I play the alpha2.

heh anyhows, I know what you mean but I think its the fine line between 256 and 16 million colors. and maybe something to do with a color pallette buffer handler. shrug*

[Danimetal]

the sound is so urber clean that our ears just cant grasp the ultra hi-fi wows and fludders
Exactly. *laugh* .

256 colours?. I thought it had more!... Still, there´s something software has and hardware lacks and it´s the light dimnishing thing that looks so damn cool and adds lots of ambience. Simulating it by fog it´s possible (using a 000000 colour and a 5000 intensity :P) but you won´t see a bright sector even if it´s in front of you. Any chances of the new renderer simulating the light dimnishing?.

[Danimetal]

Another double post and another couple of questions about this new Legacy:

The pick-up system is the most cool thing I´ve seen in this alpha... I have a question about it. It´s possible to apply it to regular items so they do different things?. For example, let´s suppose you want to take the regular shotgun and makes it give only the weapon, but no shells via scripting. Could we "overwrite" the original code?.

Then another. This pickup system... Will it require for a different script each time you want to re-do an item or could we have an argument system like suggested before? (so one script can have multiple uses).

Ah... this gives me ideas like... You can only carry a gun at once, each time you pick a new one, the other one is spawned on the floor (buggy, ´cos you would have to avoid weapons if you don´t want to change them... Nah, some scripting and done XD).

[iori]

Hurdler has mentioned a few times at least that the new renderer would most likely fix the light diminishing effect. Also, it was mentioned that there might be a mode which emulates the software feel, using hardware acceleration. I hope that an uncapped framerate is worth considering as well (at least as an option) ;)

[Planky]

There is still the problem that fs relies on a capped framerate...

[iori]

There must be some way to emulate it.

[GhostlyDeath]

This might has been said before, but the mouse code isn't wokring swell, when i strafe with the mouse it stifly moves, like the doom guys glued to the ground. Also, Movign around with the mouse also.

I would also like Uncapped FPS as an option.

[smite-meister]

There is still the problem that fs relies on a capped framerate...
How so?
I would think that one could uncap the frame rate just by making all playsim code accept an explicit
float or fixed_t delta-t parameter. Of course it would mean a lot of work, updating all that code.

[smite-meister]

The pick-up system is the most cool thing I´ve seen in this alpha...

Good to hear you like it.

It´s possible to apply it to regular items so they do different things?. For example, let´s suppose you want to take the regular shotgun and makes it give only the weapon, but no shells via scripting. Could we "overwrite" the original code?.

Not the way it is currently implemented. Now the code first checks if the item is one of the original hardcoded
pickups (shotgun, health bonus, keycard etc.) and executes the appropriate effect.
If the item type is not a hardcoded one, it uses the script system instead.

... but we could use the fact that mapthings can be either items or missiles but not both to our advantage.
How about this: If a mapthing has the SPECIAL flag (indicating that it is an item you can pick up) and
a nonzero damage field, it is interpreted as a scripted pickup with the damage field containing the script number (and maybe some params elsewhere).
So, if you wanted to make the shotgun behave differently when picked up, you just have to give it a nonzero
"missile damage" field using DeHackEd. This would bypass the original hardcoded pickup effect altogether.

If this sounds reasonable, I'll add it to alpha3 (which will be out any day now;)


Then another. This pickup system... Will it require for a different script each time you want to re-do an item or could we have an argument system like suggested before? (so one script can have multiple uses).

As I said, FS doesn't allow parameters to be given to the scripts, but we may reserve e.g. the high word of the damage field for the parameters if they are implemented in the future.

[Danimetal]

Sounds really reasonable Smite-Meister :). As for the parameter thing, you see, it´s my personal obsession :P.
By the way, did you read the FS-ACS interpretation thing on this thread?.

[rustyslacker]

i'll be downloading the alpha release tonight, but when will there be somethin more stable?

[iori]

In two weeks.

[Danimetal]

i'll be downloading the alpha release tonight, but when will there be somethin more stable?

It´s relatively stable though, at least doesn´t crash my computer, but itself. Watch out for bugs and don´t be alarmed by them.
Also, if you see something weird, check this thread to know if it has been said and tell us if it hasn´t.
Finally, I wouldn´t use it for your everyday playing and editing... Stick to v1.42 for that.

[rustyslacker]

ok.. there were some odd bugs that i noticed, but i don't know how much of a "bug" they are.

when quitting, it says "Press y to quit to os" instead of "Press y to quit to dos." is this a typo or intentional?

ok, i know about the weapon switching problems when two weapons are assigned to one key.

i noticed these other things:

You don't hear the switch change states when you exit a level, or see it either.
Some of the blood splats on the floor seem to "roll" and for a long way too.
Blood looks slightly too light-colored with the translucent effect, turn it off please.
Plasma/Bfg shoots to the right of the cross with autoaiming enabled.
"arms" slot is out of alignment with the rest of the status bar.
Nothing is shown in the arms.
There are no player pain or death sounds, when being shot, standing in lava, or using kill command.
There are a ton of random junk messages.
There is an elevator with a shotgun in e1m2 that won't allow you to get back on after getting off.
After exiting a level with a shrunken screen, the stats screen is shown behind the window of the game (in fullscreen).
Idclev shows levelstats.
If you use the kill command with godmode on, the player dies but the face on the statusbar shows the golden eyes.
In e1m3, where there is a slime pit with a bridge shaped like an 0, the rasing platform crashes the game.

post more later, g2g now. :-D cheers

[smite-meister]

when quitting, it says "Press y to quit to os" instead of "Press y to quit to dos." is this a typo or intentional?
Intentional, since very few people use DOS nowadays;)
Plasma/Bfg shoots to the right of the cross with autoaiming enabled.
The autoaiming also does very small left/right aiming if it can't find a target on the horizontal plane you're aiming at.

[rustyslacker]

i also noticed these things:

Some sectors are too dark, and others appear washed-out. (E1M7 shows both.)
There is a limit on how far you can look up, and it's too low.
Soul Spheres look really weird.
Finishing E1M8 correctly (dying) results in respawning, not ending the episode.

[Danimetal]

There is a limit on how far you can look up, and it's too low.
Regular Heretic Y-Shearing. That´s the way software mode works.

[rustyslacker]

oh, ok.

Also:

The -opengl command line switch is broken. (yeah i know, not implemented yet)
1024x768 resolution makes the splash screen too small.
Alt+F4 doesn't quit the game.