Deathmatch and other input needed

[psyren]

My new map is surprising me how simple it looks in an editor and how beautiful and complicated it looks playing.

Currently it is for Doom1, but I may convert it so I can add more floors and different textures.

No monsters, no exit, and I haven't done any x alignment yet, but since it is so non-linear, has no keys, and so many great round-abouts and sniping perches, I am wondering if it wouldn't be better for deathmatch than SP?

I have never deathmatched in Doom, only Quake1 and on the Nintendo console, so I really need some help.

I started making this with the idea of exploring for SP mode. Is it too big, confusing, and/or complicated for DM? SP?

Please take a look anyway, anyone who might be interested: http://numerometria.com/d1_g2c.zip

Thanx. :)

Thanks.

[Falci]

I think you have lots of greatly designed areas. But as you said, it is very very confusing. If you make it simpler (it doesn't mean smaller), it can be a great DM.

Now... for single player purposes... you'd better add some directions for us poor players. Not many people like the feeling of being completely lost in a level.

Oh... and by the way. Now it didn't look broken in Doomsday. Guess you fixed that.

[psyren]

Thanks Falci. I know it might be confusing with no keys or keyed doors. This was just a place I built to spend some time exploring. All of the switches are obvious, even if it isn't obvious what they open.

I like to get lost in Doom, but not "lost" in that I have no idea what to do or where to go next. I hate that! But this is more of an explorer map, and the switches to open areas the player has not been yet, (I think,) are quite obvious.

See a blocked way? Keep going and turn a few switches and it will open. For SP it will allow new enemies to come probably, but I don't find it so confusing. So far, only one switch is trapped.

I tried to make every area look unique, and not using teleporters to jump around.

I am trying to add more unique visual things to every area so it is not so confusing. But I know I need help with that too.

As I said, this would prolly make a much better DM map. If I had some better ideas where to put DM starts, it will be the first map I have made to include them.

[Danimetal]

I tried it using Doom Legacy and had missing textures and such. Nothing that Zennode cannot help, I guess :).
Here are my views on your map:

I think that it would suit better for SP in a source port. With some messages here and there you could easily draw an storyline and take the player around places, with a clear sense of direction since now is quite confusing for me :). Still, if you choose to make it DM try to add some open areas and hiding spots since the map is full of sniping posibilities ;). Also is quite big for DM in my opinion (I like to be smashed by my bots in small places like map08) but it´s your final decision, of course.
Aesthetically, I personally don´t like the green marble theme but it´s not me who´s making the map so as long as you feel good with it it´s o.k :).

[psyren]

Thanks Danimetal,

I tested it in Legacy 1.42 with no troubles. I have not run it through Zennode at all yet, and I know WadAuthor can't build nodes well with internal BSP. Sorry.

I was thinking of DM because it is so open, but it is so big that it might take 20 minutes before encountering one of 4 opponents.

So what do you mean by adding clues to help in SP? Arrows to show which way to go? I appreciate this input as it is my map and I know just where to go. What can I do to help in SP to show?

As in a source port, I am assuming you mean ZDoom? I have no concept at all about writing any scripts! I am completely "port ignorant" for all practical purposes! :)

[Danimetal]

Well, something must be odd with my Legacy :P.

As you said, it could take loads of time to find someone there and that doesn´t make a good DM map. You could run it with ZDoom, Skulltag or Legacy, add some bots and try fighting them. That could be an easy way to roughly test if it works in DM. As you read, by source port I meant not only ZDoom but any other you can get your hands on :) (Legacy, Doomsday (that one looks awesome), Edge and whatever you may find).

And for clues... Well, I meant scripted messages, texts that appear on screen telling you, for example, what you´ve done and what to do next... I recommend you to play some ZDoom maps like "Void" or the "TNT" series (which I´m through now). For Legacy you could try Nimrod or Phobia or When The Sleeper Wakes. In these maps things do actually happen in a storyline giving the map a much more comprehensive feel. Try to make a coherent line of things to achieve and just let your own taste do the rest.

This is something the original Doom doesn´t support but with source ports you will be able to do that and much more. Trust me, don´t be afraid of scripting and you´ll get the hang of it. You could begin with small things like that and end up with very cool things :). Personally I recommend you to use Legacy´s Fragglescript system ´cos it´s easy and powerful enough. ZDoom´s ACS is more powerful but also complex... If you want to, get your hands in one of them and just ask at the forums, surely people will answer quickly as they did with me.

Also, you mentioned WadAuthor in your post. Have you tried DoomBuilder?. It´s fine, has a 3d mode and built-in scripting support. It can be most useful if you want to get into scripting :).

[EarthQuake]

This is a really neat little wad you've put together here. I spent twelve minutes just running around trying to figure out what everything did and how to get to certain places. Excellent connectivity, and awesome architecture. In the editor, it really looks sloppy and thoughtless, but when you actually play it, it really is a beautiful creation. Good luck with whichever direction you want to go with this. I think it would be well suited for either type of gameplay.

[Azriel]

It's a very nice map but you might consider adding some more wood/metal textures. That way, it's easier to remember places so the players don't get lost.

[Falci]

It's a very nice map but you might consider adding some more wood/metal textures. That way, it's easier to remember places so the players don't get lost.

Good spot Azriel. I always try to keep that in my maps even if they're pretty small.

Variety is a hell of a good thing to remember.

[EarthQuake]

I agree here. More varied texture usage would do this map a whole lot of good.

[DeusExMachina]

Ok, very good, I like the fountain of blood near the beginning, but I think that it would work well for single player with lots of monsters. Think about it - there are that many twists and turns throughout the level that you could have monsters jumping out at you every time you round a corner - wouldn't that be fun? But apart from that, a very good level.

Oh, and the blood pool near the beginning doesn't do any damage - is that supposed to happen?

[psyren]

Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Very busy with this map. Thanks so much for all the input. I've put in arrows at strategic places a player could get lost, lot's more variance in textures. 95% of the green stone is replaced by some new greyish brick/marble ones I added. Now a Doom2 map.

No, none of the blood pools do any damage. That always irritated me in the originals. Nukage and lava I understand, but how can it be damaging to get a little blood on your boots?

Also, I still think it would be a cool DM map even though it's big, so I'll just guess at places that look like good starts that don't offer anyone advantage. I don't know anything about using bots to test it with.

And, 3d floors, deep water, etc., are beyond me. I can barely handle html, so ACS is out of the question at this point.

The layout and texturing is nearly finished now, so I prolly won't post it again unless someone is interested in working on DM testing.

[Danimetal]

Again, if I may, I recommend you to get into scripting since it´s not that difficult for easy things :).

[psyren]

Well, I decided to give up on the DM idea. This map IS too big.

I would like to learn fragglescript or ACS. I've seen some of the great things that can be done. All I read points to ZDoom as THE port of the future, (though I still think JDoom looks the best.)

I'm probably the only person mapping that can't even make a simple playable map with Doombuilder. I use it for mass changes of properties that take hours with Wadauthor. I've even used the auto-align tool, but most of the time end up setting each line with calculator in hand.

This is the main reason I stay away from source-port specifics: I can't even get Wadauthor set up for it. I have the Hexen and ZDoom configuration files, but it always tells me "Invalid wadfile configuration" when I try. I'm not very smart at all with this sort of thing. :(