am i mean?

[MasterOfPuppets]

ok well, just read what happened here (http://wadsinprogress.info/index.php?a=listwads&wad=438) at WIP

a better question, i think, is why would you want to include it with your "megawad"? the jDRP is huge! i wouldn't want to download your maps if it was packaged with all those models which i already have!
also, what makes this map jDoom specific, besides those minorly impressive lights? from what is visible in those shots, it would look a lot more respectable as a newbie effort in a different engine. opposed to using doomsday's lights to attempt to make your budding and not-yet-so-impressive mapping skills look better.
i don't mean to be harse when i say that, i just want to give honest input, believing that you won't learn anything if we just say what we think you want to hear.
WIP CANCELLED....lack of support by community...so fuck releasing the project...no point you all have this "popularity contest" going on....so whatever...whats funny...is "Masterofpuppets" slams EVERY aspect without knowing what is done to the levels...does he see my code i added? Or how about the XG lindefs? NO! So assholes like that make modders retire from EVER releasing their work for the simple fact that they get NO positive CONSTRUCTIVE feed back...just NEGATIVE blazes to posts. Its a sad day for a modding community when ONE person can ruin it for another...One final note..Do you really think that the FIRST level should "blow the load" on full crative design? if so...thats why there are so many 1 and 2 level wads. I was NEVER looking for..."whoa badass" or "Fucking great!!" my ideas of feed back are..."Hey its lacking some definition in this area"..."Too Dark in the halls"..etc..etc...not "also, what makes this map jDoom specific, besides those minorly impressive lights? from what is visible in those shots, it would look a lot more respectable as a newbie effort in a different engine. opposed to using doomsday's lights to attempt to make your budding and not-yet-so-impressive mapping skills look better."....you have NO fucking clue...Get the FUCK over yourself already you are NOT the best mapper on teh face of teh planet and neither am I...so till you get a JOB working for ID software or another company...get off your high horse and give POSITIVE feed back or shut the FUCK up!
Fuck you all!

you said you wanted constructive critizism, so thats what i gave you. i offered my opinion and i'm sorry you felt so insulted by it.
i know full well i'm not the best mapper around. i've had my share of failures on this very website. look on the older pages and you'll find a big flame war between me and Nmn 'cause he told me what he thought of my work and i flamed him, just like you are doing to me now.
as a note, i kept my last post as civil as i could. i didn't say what a really wanted to, but sense you are so rude i'll say it now: n00bs who use jDoom features to make their sub-par maps look better keep the greater Doom mapping community from respecting Doomsday.
again i'm sorry my thoughts anger you so, but if you are too sensative to accept some non-sugar-coated feedback...then maybe it is better you "retire."so my question is, was i being a mean asshole? i'm not asking to confirm my side of the argument, but what he said hurt me a bit and i'm wondering, is he right?

[unbottledup]

I'd see it that way. First you put quotes around megawad seemingly as if it wasn't going to happen, and then you insulted his use of JDoom when you said his map was a newbie effort and that he only used JDoom to make his "budding and not-yet-so-impressive mapping skills" look better. You also said "believing that you won't learn anything if we just say what we think you want to hear" at the end. I don't think this is mean but after everything else in that post it would have come off that way, especially considering you said that you believed he wouldn't learn anything. You didn't mean to insult to him but ya did. Kinda like when you say to someone "Wow, you look like you've lost weight!"

EDIT: On the other hand, forget that prick. He REALLY over reacted to this. Oooh one person didn't like his map, whine. And he's all pissed at you but tells everyone "Fuck you allll" or whatever... yeah... And to quote ZDaemon when you kill yourself:
LOSER!

[Wicked Anime Kid]

You gave critics and that guy starts crying, I say he over reacted about this.

[DoomedAce]

I can somewhat understand his reaction. It's not cool to have your first map criticised for being a bit crappy and being accused of using a source port's features to cover up your inexperience. Especially if you can't take criticism at all, which seems to be the case with this guy.
But really, I'd say you weren't being mean.

[MasterOfPuppets]

I don't think this is mean but after everything else in that post it would have come off that wayyeah, i think so too...*sigh* o well.

EDIT: heh, i should have made the results public so i woudln't have to vote in my favor to see the results. o well again

[Harry]

Eh, I like that kind of feedback:D but, it was just ONE post of negative feedback!!!!! he need not cancell it because of what you said, it could be a great megawad, but with just a little more practice:p

[Nemesis]

The immature lil' shit overreacted. You're not mean, MOP. You gave him constructive criticism and he didn't like what you had to say, so he blew up and quit.

[MasterOfPuppets]

thanks Nemesis...lol, nice avatar Harry

[Ninja_of_DooM]

I thought it was constructive critcism. I didn't see anything wrong wiht it. He yaps on about how he's modified some stuff but he didn't mention it so who was going to know? Whatsmore, he didn't even ask if he could include JDRP with his megawad. Must be soem dumbfuck kid.

[iori]

Fucking n00m if you ask me, just shrug it off.

[swiftfox]

OH NO!His high self esteem!Why would he go on there and post that if he was going to have a hissy fit about someone giveing a little bit of critcism.I mean, thats what that website is for right?I don't care what people think about the levels I've made (whenever there going to be released) because I like them and thats all that matters.

[deepteam]

Constructive criticism avoids personal slams and just deals with the quality of the level as objectively as possible. For example, "textures are not aligned" is an objective statement.

But if I said "the lack of textures alignment shows you are a newb" that includes a personal slam.

Rewording is one way to learn what to avoid. For example, a suggestion to trim the models from the level so that it reduces the download since many people already have the models, both is an easier comment to read and makes the other party more ready to read the next sentence.

I think if you reread your remarks and pay attention to words that were personal statements, it may help you not have those kind of comments and then the next person will react better. It's no guarantee, but it helps :)

[DaniJ]

Not everyone is able to handle critcism and he is obviously such a person so I understand why he reacted in the way he did for the reasons unbottledup and deep mentioned.

That is why rather than getting into a debate I asked him if he had permission to include my jDRP (which btw if anyone else is wondering the answer is no).

[searcher]

Darn it! Now we will never see that mega-wad. WAH!!!!!

Guess he hasn't yet learned that mappers map for themselves first. And if someone else happens to like it, all the better, but tough luck if they don't.

[MasterOfPuppets]

That is why rather than getting into a debate I asked him if he had permission to include my jDRP (which btw if anyone else is wondering the answer is no).i noticed. i'm a forcefull person though i guess, and had to say something.

what i wrote was undertoned by my opinions about a lot of recent jDoom maps. maps that are basically vanilla Doom 2, but use a minor display of Doomsday features and the mappers act as if they accomplished something. but that wasn't the first issue at hand with this guy. really, it reminded me of Heaven Torn Asunder. the ill-fated, short-lived megawad i was working on for a few weeks. i was at that time, just like this guy, a high-hoped n00b with too much ambition and too stupid to realize it. Nmn set me strate. i didn't like it at the time but he told me what i needed to hear, and i'm a better mapper for it. not to make myself sound well ententioned. i thought what he had there sucked, and i wanted him to know it so he do something about it. its the same with all newbies maps, but with those i can respect that they are trying to learn and get better. with this one, though, my suspicion of jDoom feature exploitation leaked through.

[Catsy]

To your original questions, yes, and yes. You were harsher and more insulting than necessary, and he reacted completely inappropriately. Frankly, if he cancels his project because someone talks down his editing skills, he probably doesn't have the perseverence necessary to be a mapper, let alone make a 32-level megawad.

Now, the flipside: he might've made something of himself with the right nudges. Who knows? Maybe he'll cool down and realize the substance of your criticism was right, and be better for it. Maybe he'll quit and we'll never know. Next time leave the insults out; you can say what you needed to say without calling him an unimpressive noob.

[Azriel]

Guess he hasn't yet learned that mappers map for themselves first. And if someone else happens to like it, all the better, but tough luck if they don't.
Yeah that's true. When I make a map and I've got the feeling that it's finished and I like it that way then I don't really care what other people think about it. Some will like it, others will not.

If I ask for someone's opinion then I will expect positive and/or negative feedback. If you can't handle that, then don't ask for someone's opinion.

MOP, you weren't being mean.

[MR_ROCKET]

OMG puppet master you asshole lol , j/k :P

No I think the guy did get a little bent outta shape, but only he knows what he's capable of. if he's head strong about it he wont stop, your comments should only make him try harder.

I know about 90% of the mappers out there ask the same thing, "what do you think of my proto type map?" and they say "cool but what about this?" , at first it's like "fuck you i'v already thought about that !" but in the back of his mind he's thinking "meh good idea".lol

I wouldn't worry about it , I think the dude should just sleep on it and start working on his project again and just be in the same mood/attitude he was before he asked for any input.

[Ninja_of_DooM]

hehe, I had one of my maps fall slat on it's ass in /nc once but I never took it bad, or at elast as bad as that. I took a long, hard lokk at the thing and saw just where I had gone wrong. too linear, short and it just looked to n00bish to be good enough. Some people just don't realize it's a long road to becoming a good quality mapper. You're first map is not going to be the best out there, only through experience can you become good. Just check some of my work and you'll see. My first map was NDCP map14, looks godamn awful compared to my current WIP.

[Mystic]

LMFAO. Well, I think MOPs review was reasonable, Ive had plenty worse reviews for some of my own maps. That Richie person seems more than a little unbalanced. Like a few of you I map for me, if I like what I do I upload it to share with others (ok so I admit I also shared a few I knew were pretty crap too)
The world is a nicer place without 'Richie' type people so MOP did us all a favour.

[MrSlapHappy]

Wow...i dont think i have ever heard someone get that pissed off from a few comments like that. Dude i think you gave him what he needed to hear, if he cant handle it obviously he is just too senative to deal with showing his stuff to the world. I admit that you did kinda assualt him on probably every positive area he thought he had made, but he asked for it so whatever. that guy was asking for improvement advise not critizism and obviously doesnt understand the difference, screw him...if he retires the doom community looses one moron and in his place are 10 others ready to try their hand!

[Pieter Enis]

He kinda overreacted, but to be honest I had to re-read the thing about the "what makes this ..." but now I kinda get it.
It was constructive, somehow, but you could have added something you thought he needed to work on, directly I mean. Maybe that way he would have taken it better.
Oh well, if he gives up now, he wasn't fit for mapping I s'pose

[iori]

Hooray for resurrecting month-old threads!

[Doom007]

Constructive criticism avoids personal slams and just deals with the quality of the level as objectively as possible. For example, "textures are not aligned" is an objective statement.

But if I said "the lack of textures alignment shows you are a newb" that includes a personal slam.

MOP, you definetly weren't being mean at all. But I agree with Deepteam that saying bout how much of a newbie he is, or trying to cover up his unimpressive map skills, I wouldn't be too happy about it, but I wouldn't go off like that guy did.

I have always found myself going back over what I write at least 2 times, for myself to be certain that I don't say the wrong thing to upset someone. And typo's :P