Jdoom + zdoom

[vincent]

I want to know is there gonna be a Jdoom compatibility with zdoom wads.

[DaniJ]

To some extent, eventually yes. Hawthorn (Doomsday 2.0) will see ACS, polyobjects and the Hexen wad format supported under jDoom and Skyjake has said that once these systems are in place it should then be trival to then extend it to include the modifications of these sytems made in Zdoom.

However, I doubt we'll see support for Zdooms Decorate and related lumps, due to the fact that the whole system is a bit of a fudge and Doomsdays DED is far more elegant. DED just needs to be extended to include the same functionality. In fact Skyjake has plans for an all in one scripting system that combines EVERYTHING (DED, XG, InFine, ACS, THING AI etc).

[vincent]

Thats a good new. Because I.m mod for Jdoom, but i see some things in zdoom that are really good, like wagging floors and such things. Anyway, i still think Jdoom is really superior, due its support for Direct3d, because i have an old system (elsa graphic card equipped) and its not support OpenGL. (sigh).

[DaniJ]

Whats a wagging floor?

[vincent]

Its a floor that moves in a sinusoidal manner, giving you the illusion of water or slime.

[Catsy]

I think you mean an animated flat. You can do this in any sourceport, even vanilla Doom.

[Catsy]

By the way...

In fact Skyjake has plans for an all in one scripting system that combines EVERYTHING (DED, XG, InFine, ACS, THING AI etc).

...this sounds a lot like what Janis has done with VavoomC and progs. If that's what Skyjake has planned for jDoom, that's awesome. :D

[Vermil]

My guess is that he/she means the way liquid flats warp in Zdoom.

[Catsy]

I haven't played Zdoom long enough to really notice. Is it some form of gaussian blur? Frame interpolation? The latter, in particular, would be really effective on the liquid flats.

[vincent]

No. Its not an animated flat. Its the same texture, with a sinusoidal movement. Anyway, there are more effective ways to make water. And im "he".

[DaniJ]

Yeah but it doesn't look much like water anyway. Since when does water behave like that?

I'm much more interested in the prospect of pixel shader water once Skyjake gets to that stage with the new renderer.

[Catsy]

Personally, I think interpolating the frames of the water flats, whether through some kind of morphing transform or a simple fade transition, would look pretty nice and be fairly easy on the FPS. But I drool at the thought of pixel shaders. :D

[DaniJ]

A simple fade is already in place for animated textures.

[Chilvence]

However, I doubt we'll see support for Zdooms Decorate and related lumps, due to the fact that the whole system is a bit of a fudge

Eh? I know decorate is not the best way to do it (personally I'd side with Vavoom here), but its far from what I'd call fudge. It's an awful lot more flexible and streamlined than ded's are in their current state, anyway. I managed to get a complete recreation of the Duke monsters running under zdoom in about 2 or 3 hours, even with liberal (actually, unbridled and violent) playtesting after each change :) . It took me longer than that just to name all the sprites properly, and even longer to carefully repalette them...

Personally, I think interpolating the frames of the water flats, whether through some kind of morphing transform or a simple fade transition, would look pretty nice and be fairly easy on the FPS. But I drool at the thought of pixel shaders. :D

Whee, computerised liquid generators ahoy: www.stateoftheworld.eclipse.co.uk/doom/stuffage/liquids.pk3.zip

[DaniJ]

I disagree, I do think it's a quick fix and not very elegant at all (fudge was the wrong word, granted).

For instance you don't actually create new actions, your abusing some simple new actions to create different AI. For instance to get a decision made you use a built in action that simply throws a dice and returns the result rather than actually choosing which action should be used based on circumstances. Obviously it's more flexible than DED State and Thing definitons because in DED you can't create new actions full stop.

It stands to reason that once the combined scripting language is written that the same approach DED uses currently (actually defining new things) will be carried through into the Actions. So that you define a new action instead of creating a script that relies on generating a series of random numbers via the "quick fix" actions to dictate the AI (the ZDoom way).

[Chilvence]

For instance you don't actually create new actions, your abusing some simple new actions to create different AI. For instance to get a decision made you use a built in action that simply throws a dice and returns the result rather than actually choosing which action should be used based on circumstances. Obviously it's more flexible than DED State and Thing definitons because in DED you can't create new actions full stop.

Yeah, there isnt really much thought put into descision making, but thats only how it is currently. Eventually it will have checks for distance, health etc, the idea is to fill it up with general purpose functions that could be used for anything; in effect it will end up like con files, except even easier to learn to use (although updates are long overdue...)


It stands to reason that once the combined scripting language is written that the same approach DED uses currently (actually defining new things) will be carried through into the Actions. So that you define a new action instead of creating a script that relies on generating a series of random numbers via the "quick fix" actions to dictate the AI (the ZDoom way).

But as I said, it was not the intention to stop at the dice rolling function - that was just put in there to open the doors; plenty of suggestions have been given over the last few months on how to actually create useful *grin* decision making functions.

Personally I hope the ded re-write goes well, because I really dont like the way they are now. Or at least, I hope theres some kind of shorthand form of the new deds.

[sl4]

Wow, this sounds like it's going to be awesome. If he could add support for 3D floors (preferably compatible with Legacy's) in addition to all this stuff, I'd say Doomsday would be the all-around best sourceport ever. It's got the graphics and the audio, all it needs now is the editing features. Good luck, Jaakko. :)

[jls23]

No it won't. It already IS.