Duke Nukem' TC ?

[psyren]

Sorry if the title is misleading. I don't actually know of one, but I have been searching many threads looking for clues.

Does anyone know of a Duke TC for Doom2? Finished, started, abandoned?

I know it is too advanced for me to do, but I have found all of the enemy sprites, and a complete set of textures. However, the textures are for Unreal (which I don't have.)

XWE could be used to rip the rest of the sprites, sounds, probably everything actually, but the version I want to convert is the same one that got ported (mostly) to the Nintendo64. Duke Nukem' 3D is a DOS program that I can't get running.

I'm sure it would also need a Dehacked patch, and even then, somethings, like the jetpack, might be impossible.

If anyone knows of anything about this, or might offer some suggestions, please let me know

[ReX]

For quite a while now I have been considering doing a D3D TC for ZDooM. Unfortunately, with my limited free time and my current DooM-related commitments I won't be starting it any time soon. As for the jet-pack, the 'fly' cheat in ZDooM works in the same way. Also, I vaguely remember reading that 'fly' can be invoked via a script. [Otherwise, as you pointed out, the jet-pack would not be something that could be incorporated into a TC.]

[psyren]

Thanks for the info ReX. I haven't been using ZDoom long and didn't know how that might be incorporated. Never done anything source-port specific myself, but I am sure this would require it, just because many of the maps would need the deep-water effect at least. There are also conveyor belts that could be moving floors. Also a train car effect - a room with the background moving - that I am not sure how to achieve with Doom. The rest is basically the same 2D mapping that Doom uses, I think. (no floors above floors)

I've tried already playing with some of the sprites, but no luck yet.

[Aliotroph?]

Doing a really accurate TC would be a massive project. The BUILD engine has a load of special effects and custom ways of manipulating sprites. Sectors can move around, there are a multitude of custom teleports (that's how the water works), there's that shrink way, which would be pretty hard to do even with Dehacked.

Probably easier to find a way to run Duke3D. If you're on a Win2k or XP box and you can get the game running without sound thenVDMSound (http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~vromas/vdmsound/) could be useful. It emulates old soundcard support for DOS games. I haven't tried it with Duke3D. It doesn't work with ROTT but works with most games I've tried.

If you can't run it at all you can try DOSBox (http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1). It emulates DOS in its entirety. I haven't found a game yet that doesn't work with this. It is PAINFULLY slow though. I tried playing ROTT with it on my 1GHz laptop and it was unplayable.

There are also a couple Windows ports of Duke3D in the works. I remember playing one last year that seemed mostly playable. I haven't checked on any of them at all recently though.

[Nephil]

Use one of these ports:

http://jonof.edgenetwork.org/buildport/duke3d/
http://www.rancidmeat.com/project.php3?id=1

If you want to play the game over LAN or internet, you should use the last one. Both work very good!

[psyren]

Hmm, well you are right I know. More I remember the game, the more I see things and wonder if they could ever be duped in Doom, in any port. But it wouldn't have to be completely accurate. I still don't know all the magic involved in converting Doom64 like DDT did, but I played the Goldeneye TC and even though it was not really even close, it brought back many memories.

Just to see some of those maps again, and hear Duke talking would be way cool. "In a perfect world, you'd already be dead"!!! It wouldn't matter if some of the maps had to be left out.

And many thanks for the info Aliotroph. I will find that DOSbox program and try it. Still, I'll keep after this and keep trying even though beyond my capacity as a mapper for now. The possibility of the possibility makes it interesting. :)

on second thought, DOSbox looks too complicated. I am more than a DOS idiot. Even the book, "Idiots Guide to DOS" was too much for me! Saying I need these other files and such to run it. I start messing around with that sort of thing and my machine is fuct up before I even know what happened.

[DuffPaddy]

I've tried the first of those ports that Nephil cites, and it was an excellent job. I only spotted one or two slight glitches, such as monsters becoming invisible behind gratings, etc. I think I was able to play the single-player missions all the way through without any real problems.

Regards making a TC for Doom 2, then as well as the technical challenges, there's obviously copyright issues. I would imagine that 3D Realms would be very unhappy if the whole game were to be implemented under the Doom 2 engine. They might just let it go if you only put out the maps from the shareware version, but you'd have to check with them first.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

I think ports make a Duke3d TC pretty redundant; you might as well just edit for Duke3d and have the physics and special features of the real thing.

[ReX]

I think that converting D3D into DooM (e.g., ZDooM) format is pointless, even if it were possible. Why not just play the original D3D (as ToXiCFLUFF, Aliotroph? and others have pointed out) with one of the Win ports suggested by Nephil?

My idea for a TC was to use D3D's resources to the extent possible, and create a completely new story-line with accompanying maps. Putting ZDooM's hub structure to good use would enhance the story-telling aspect of the TC. I know I won't be starting it any time soon, but with D3D being one of my favorite games, the project I was envisioning was close to my heart. Who knows? Maybe I'll get into it sometime in the future, when my DooM editing plate isn't so full.

[Catsy]

Why not just play the original D3D (as ToXiCFLUFF, Aliotroph? and others have pointed out) with one of the Win ports suggested by Nephil?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally /loathe/ the way the Build engine (and every port I've played) handles free look. It's the main reason why I've never made it through the game even though I think the levels and game content are great. The aiming and mouselooking--hell, even the way it feels when the character moves around--are just miserable. If I could play Duke3D but have it /feel/ like Doom, I'd be a happy camper.

[psyren]

The more I think about this idea, the more it sux. I did get the shareware version working just fine using JonoF's port. (Very cool, even though the shareware version should be called a demo it's so small.)

There are way too many things the Build engine does that even massive scripting with ZDoom couldn't come close to.

I think I'll just keep collecting textures, sprites and sounds and work on making a resource wad that Doom2 maps can be built upon. Not sure how much 3D Realms would scream about that. About the most they could do would be request the files be pulled from anywhere they might be distributed.

They don't seem to be very good businesspeople anyway. 40 bucks for the full version of a 7 year old game that won't even run in Windows without programs Silverman and Fowler worked on and distribute for free??? One can get the discs for all Doom games except 3, or all the Quake games for less than that.

And Catsy, you're right about the freelook in D3D. Sux when they fly over and I can't aim high enough to even see them, but they have no trouble tagging me. :( Also the controls are too many even when customised. Difficult to play when you spend as much time looking at the keyboard as the screen.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Heh, I love the way movement feels in Duke3d. As for the freelook, Jonof's OpenGL port allows you to look completely up and down.

[Catsy]

Heh, I love the way movement feels in Duke3d. As for the freelook, Jonof's OpenGL port allows you to look completely up and down.

Yeah, but the aiming's still crap. That's simply a side effect of being true to the original, though.

[Boingo the Clown]

Maybe if we all got together, we could manage to come up with Duke Nukem Forever, and finish it before 3D Realms does.

:p

[ReX]

I think I'll just keep collecting textures, sprites and sounds and work on making a resource wad that Doom2 maps can be built upon. Not sure how much 3D Realms would scream about that.
If you assemble the resources perhaps you'll consider releasing it for public use (with due credit to you for compiling them). As for how 3D Realms feels, I say screw 'em and "Let God sort it out!" ;)

Maybe if we all got together, we could manage to come up with Duke Nukem Forever, and finish it before 3D Realms does.
Good one, Boingo. Heh.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Yeah, but the aiming's still crap. That's simply a side effect of being true to the original, though.What exactly is crap about it?

[Mystic]

Maybe if we all got together, we could manage to come up with Duke Nukem Forever, and finish it before 3D Realms does.

:p

Boingo, you are a genius.

3D realms wont object to folk using the resources, in their docs for build they encouraged the ripping of resources from doom so it would be really strange for them to make a stink. Besides lots of wadsters (myself included) have been ripping D3D resources and using them in doom wads for years now.

Im tempted to start making some new D3D maps now that there is an opengl port for it. I always meant to make an egyptian themed one but got pissed off by the crappy palette it uses on textures, it doesnt use the whole 256 colours, it only uses something like 65.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

3D realms wont object to folk using the resources, in their docs for build they encouraged the ripping of resources from doom so it would be really strange for them to make a stink.I frequent the 3DR forums, and their stance on it is that it's extremely objectional. They strictly prohibit people from even using graphics from one 3DR game in another.

Not that this will really bother us too much though, since illegal ripping has been going on in the 2.5D game editing communities for as long as I can remember.

[ReX]

I frequent the 3DR forums, and their stance on it is that it's extremely objectional. They strictly prohibit people from even using graphics from one 3DR game in another.
Bastardos! Anyhoo, any project using D3D resources is liklely to fly well below 3D Realms' radar, and is unlikely to be noticed or nixed.

[Mystic]

I dont mind taking all the blame, they can try and sue me if they want.

that windows port of D3D is awesome, it even has a port of build and can use high colour (16 bit) textures. Looks really nice and still has that great D3D feel. Ive never had a problem with the aiming in D3D but most of my DM buddies did, hehehe.

Im going to make some new maps for D3D now.

[psyren]

That sounds awesome Mystic. Duke cleaning up an over-run Memphis would be cool! I suppose I'll have to buy the registered version to play add-ons? I found some sites with nice looking maps others have done, but no frontend to launch them in JonoF's port that I have found.

I have converted many of the textures and I don't know what is wrong with Duke's palette. Just swapping palettes renders them like a peyote nightmare of some sort. Converting to 24bit and then to 256K makes them much better, but the colors are still off. With more advanced software to alter specific frequencies it could be done.

Duke also seems to have 10x as many thing sprites and decals than Doom does, so this will be quite an effort.

[ReX]

I have converted many of the textures and I don't know what is wrong with Duke's palette. Just swapping palettes renders them like a peyote nightmare of some sort. Converting to 24bit and then to 256K makes them much better, but the colors are still off. With more advanced software to alter specific frequencies it could be done.
The way I remember doing it, simply open up your graphics editing program (I use MS Paint, heh) with the DooM palette, then load the D3D graphic. The program will convert the D3D graphic into the 256-color DooM palette, and the conversion looks quite good. The D3D palette uses a pink color for transparent areas, while WinTex uses a cyan color. This may or may not be an issue, depending on the wad editing utility you are using.

[psyren]

I am using just MSPaint also Rex. (Many people don't really realise just how much that will do, so I don't feel too bad about it.)

I'm also using XWE to open the duke.grp file, then the .art files separately, then save them as .bmp. First I have to select the Duke palette to get rid of the psychadelic colors. I have the Doom palette saved in another (free) program called Image Analyzer that I use. So I convert the .bmp to 24bit and use Image Analyzer to convert again to 256 color and apply the Doom palette.

(Same as you said, but a couple extra steps since I haven't figgered out how to use the Doom palette in Paint unless it is already in the file I want to play with.)

XWE cyan and not that pink one for transparency also. They don't look too bad really, but the hue, saturation, and brightness values are all off because of the palette differences.

You should check this out if you haven't already: http://meesoft.logicnet.dk/Analyzer/
If you got the Doom palette into MSPaint you can import it to this prog. I'm not very wise with it either, but just a slight change to the image can completely alter the way it is rendered with the Doom palette. Really awesome for making/converting textures.

A couple points of color saturation and it will be blue like it is in Duke, instead of grey like it is interpreted by/with the Doom palette. That was why I said it would be lots of work, or needing more sophisticated and expensive tools than I am using. :)