What will I need?

[Salty Sam]

Hey everyone.
I finally got Doom 3, and I've been playing it on my dad's Windows XP, but I'd like to play it on my Windows 98. Everything on my 98 stinks and I'd like to know your opinion on what I should upgrade my stuff to or how I should do it, etc., etc.

Here's some info on my computer:

Windows 98
Pentium 2 processor
128MB RAM
Nvidia Riva TNT graphics card

First thing I'd like to upgrade is my graphics card because it is OLD. What graphics card would you suggest that is within a reasonable price?

[jls23]

Ok, i recommend NOT getting one the latest nVidia FX cards, because they do not support DirectX 9.0. Get a radeon card, 9500 pro card is cost-effective, but if you want to be worry-free, get a 9800 XT or, better yet, an X800 XT. Upgrade your windows to at least 2000, but I recommend XP. Get more RAM, at least 512mb. Next, you may need more CPU ( I don't know you didn't post it), but I recommend making sure you have AT LEAST 1.8 Ghz.

The 9500 Pro used to be $120, but it is now $150, because it is in demand. Check www.pricewatch.com for more prices.

[Salty Sam]

Wow, those cards are EXPENSIVE!!! Is there any that I can get for under $100 that are almost as good?

by the way, I can't seem to find my CPU, where can you locate it at?(considering most computers' control panel is the same, right?)

[jls23]

I'm guessing in your bios, or maybe it's at the black startup screen you see when you first turn your computer on. But no, you cannot find a card even almost as good as those for under $100.

[Salty Sam]

Actually what I meant to say was can I get a video card around $100 that will work fine with Doom 3? What about the Radeon 9500 128MB($115) or the Radeon 9500 64MB($95)? Would those work okay with Doom 3?

And are you sure I won't be able to get Doom 3 to work with a Geforce FX card? Because that was what I was planning on buying...

[The Undertaker]

The fastest P2 is 450mhz which won't do. Your upgrade options are limited to Powerleap slocket adapter and a Celeron 1.4 which will cost you $100. But thats only if your board can take 100mhz FSB.

[Salty Sam]

*ohmy* Excuse me for saying this, but, I didn't understand a word you just said.

Anyway, I still need a suggestion on a cheap but effective video card. I don't care if it is the best. All I care about is that its one of those video cards on the bottom of the Doom 3 box that would be around $100- $50 dollars and still work pretty well with Doom 3.

Oh, by the way, my friend has one of the newer Geforce FX graphics cards and he says it works fine the DirectX 9.

[Looney]

Ok, i recommend NOT getting one the latest nVidia FX cards, because they do not support DirectX 9.0.
WTF are you talking about? Yes they do.

Next, you may need more CPU ( I don't know you didn't post it), but I recommend making sure you have AT LEAST 1.8 Ghz.

Yes he did.
Windows 98
Pentium 2 processor
128MB RAM
Nvidia Riva TNT graphics card

Salty Sam,
Your Comp is just to Old to run Doom 3 and you should look into a new system.

If your building your own then your options are open to what you can have. If you don't want to build one, Your best off to go buy an HP/Compaq or DELL. All thought most Compaqs and HP's Have the Intel videio cards and are trash. At least with Dell it can come with decent one.

As far as what card you buy, a Good Low price FX Card is the 5200 FX 256 meg VRAM

BTW your CPU info can be found by right clicking on "My Computer", Then click "Proporties", it will listed under the General tab.

[Salty Sam]

Well, couldn't I just get a Windows XP upgrade instead of having to buy a completly new computer?

[Looney]

Yeah if you want to, but it will run Very slow on that P2 machine.

[Salty Sam]

Ok then, what do I need to upgrade that to, so that it runs a lot faster?

[Looney]

You will need a New CPU which will require a new Mother Board, which will require the new DDR ram. You also need a Video Card... Dpending on your Old case You will probly also need a new case to put it all in. How powerful is your Power Supply? You will need at least a 350 watt to run the new Hardware or Video card. How big is your HDD? You will want at least a 40 gig... You might as well say you need a new computer.

[Salty Sam]

Ouch, that's not good...and I don't have that kind of money either...but can't I just get a new video card and RAM upgrade and still be able to play Doom 3? I know about the trick to get Doom to work on Windows 98. And, I know sombody with a Pentium 2 who can play Doom 3 just fine.

By the way, I just found out that my Windows 98 is actually a Windows 98SE, I didn't know that until I started searching for all the hardware my computer has.

[Looney]

Ouch, that's not good...and I don't have that kind of money either...but can't I just get a new video card and RAM upgrade and still be able to play Doom 3?
Yes... you could.., But, You would also need to check your Power Supply wattage. If it is not at least 300 Watt, your new video card will have problems, most require a 300watt. Also you will find the older RAM more expencive than the new DDR RAM. Most stores Like Best buy don't even stock the old RAM, you would have to order it.
And, I know sombody with a Pentium 2 who can play Doom 3 just fine.
Then he dosen't have a Pentium 2... he probly has the P3 which would run Doom3. I know a P2 is not fast enough for Doom3. As Untertaker said, they are only 450-500Mhz max. You need at least a AMD or Pentium 3, 1.2 Ghz or better, or Doom 3 will not even load.

EDIT:
Run this and post the results.....
http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/chkcpu.htm
OR
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

[Salty Sam]

If I had to get a new processor, I'd have to replace motherboard too, right? I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I'm a noob when it comes to computers.

[Looney]

Yes you would, The sockets that the CPU's plug into are totaly different. No worry, as you can see by my sig I'm used to it. ;)

[The Undertaker]

Well if a P3 can it then you can get a Slot1 P3 off of eBay. I see a bunch of them now. Download CPU ID (http://www.cpuid.com) to see what chipset you got to see if you use a 100FSB CPU.

[Salty Sam]

How much does a P3 cost. And since I'm asking about a P3, how much does a new motherboard cost?

[Looney]

Go here you will find everything you need:
http://www.newegg.com/

[Salty Sam]

What motherboard would you suggest?

[Looney]

I would Suggest ASUS Brand, MSI. There are many combos of what will work. The Socket type is the one thing you want to match up.

Here is a list of CPUs and Sockets they fit:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_cpu.asp
Match the CPU with the Socket Type of the Mother board.

EXAMPLE:
This CPU
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1050226

Would go with any of these Mother Boards
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=179

Edit
Chintech seems good, thats what I'm running.

[Salty Sam]

And where in my computer can I find out what motherboard I have and what type of socket I have?

[Looney]

What brand Comp do you have?

Or if it's home built Run that Program I posted earlyer and it will tell you what you need to know.

[Salty Sam]

I have a Dell.

[Looney]

What is the S/N?
Model/Number?

[Salty Sam]

The S/N? Like I said before, I'm a noob. What does that stand for?

[Looney]

Serial Number (S/N 12345-6789-ABCD)
Make (DELL)
and Model/Number (Demention 2340)

[Salty Sam]

I can't find the S/N.
My M/N is: Dimension XPS R450

[Looney]

I really need the S/N to get the info on your comp... You could always run that program and get the CPU info... Then It will tell you all that. Thats why I ask you run it and post the info.

[Salty Sam]

Heh, heh, I'll do more than post the info. I'll save it and make a link to it. I hope you can read it okay. My Windows 98 has no internet access, so I had to print this out and scan it to my dad's computer. For some reason, I couldn't copy the info and save it to a floppy. But anway, here's the info.

http://www.geocities.com/salty_sam89/cpu.html?1093808874062

[Looney]

Sorry it took so long to get back.
This is a Pentium II CPU:
http://www.cpuscorecard.com/cpuprices/images/pentium2.GIF This is what you you have running at 465 Mhz

This it what a AMD Socket A/Intel 746 CPU looks like:
http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/thouroughbred.jpg
http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/pentium4_prescott_775.jpg

See why you will need a new Mother Board to upgrade your CPU....?

[jls23]

Damn man just save up and buy a new comp. A radeon 9500 pro is perfect, but you obviously don't want to spend $150 dollars. I guess you could get a new dell, but I understand that cards put in PC's in the factory are no good. I built my own, so I don't know much about Dell's performance history.

[The Undertaker]

You could get a slocket (http://www.powerleap.com) adapter though its a tad pricey for what you get.

[Looney]

You could get a slocket (http://www.powerleap.com) adapter though its a tad pricey for what you get.
Those cost more than a MB and CPU combo :p HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[DooMMooD]

Ok, i recommend NOT getting one the latest nVidia FX cards, because they do not support DirectX 9.0.

ermmm....i have a geforce fx 5500 OC and it runs directx 9.0 well thank you very much. it says it right on the box so i dont know what the heck you are talking about.

[jls23]

I thought I saw something once that said DX9.0 would not be fully supported.

[Salty Sam]

How much does a custom built PC cost? Er, I mean would it be less than getting a Dell (which is around $500)?

[Looney]

Check your PM

[jls23]

Depends. What kind of hardware are you getting?

[The Undertaker]

The problem with FX cards and DX9 is that that DX9 requires FP24 for shaders but the FX can only do FP16 and FP32. So all those shaders are then run in FP32 which kills performance. Its not bad when developers work around this and only use FP32 when necessary but some like Valve just treat them as DX8 parts.

[Salty Sam]

Depends. What kind of hardware are you getting?

Windows XP or 2000.
Pentium 4 ------- 1.5 GHz
Any Motherboard that supports Pentium 4.
Geforce FX 5200 or up.
384 MB RAM
8x Speed CD-ROM Drive
Any Floppy Disk Drive.
Maybe a ZIP Disk Drive.

Half that stuff I just read off the Doom 3 box. Heh, heh.
If there's any more important hardware I missed, tell me.

[jls23]

TotalCost $55.00 for your video card. Maybe get

ATI (Video Cards) RADEON 9700 ONLINE ORDER ONLY - - $149.00
Details:
-Sapphire RADEON 9700 ATLANTIS 128MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI (OEM)
Part - 310-18718T
Updated - 8/24, 11:09 PM TotalCost $149.00

THat is a little better than the 9500 Pro. Saddle up for that. And don't go 384mb, go 512. The recommended is 1024mb, but 512mb is good enough. And winxp, for sure.

Or for $20 more you can get a 9700 Pro.

[The Undertaker]

I'd go with a Sempron 3100 and a nForce250 mobo.

[Salty Sam]

I always hear that the Radeons are better than the Geforces, but I also heard that the Geforces are less expensive than the Radeons but just as good...battle of the titans, eh, heh, heh.

Anyway, in order to get an XP upgrade and be able to run it fairly fast, what do I need? It says on the box that the Windows XP upgrade is designed to work for a Windows 98.

[jls23]

Radeons have better quality than the GeForce's, but admittedly their prices do get ridiculously high. But if you have Windows ME, it should work fine because ME is a modified 98.

[Salty Sam]

Finally! Some good news about my computer! It can be saved! And I won't have to waist hundreds of dollars to get an new computer. By the way, did I mention I'm too young to get a job? That's why I've been asking about the quality of lower priced things and the trying to avoid expensive stuff like new computers.

[Looney]

Don't we have enough ATI Vs GeForce wars going on here Please.... ATI renders particals better than GeForce, But I hear that is no longer the case since the 6800 came out. ATI is tweakers card, GeForce is dependable set it and forget it card. Both will do the job for you.

I don't recomend the Upgrade version of XP, just get the full Pro version and save your self allot of headaches.

[FATAL]

But XP costs damn much, so I don't think that it's an option for him.

[Looney]

Thats True, but, here is 25 reasons not to waste money on the upgrade.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/xpupgdissues.html

[Salty Sam]

Hey what about a Windows 2000 upgrade? Why didn't I think about this sooner?! That would be perfect and probably less frustrating than getting an XP upgrade!

[Looney]

Problem is with the Upgrades from 98 to any of the O/S's NT... 2000... XP have similar problems. If you go with 2000 Pro you will want the full version as well.

[Salty Sam]

Yeah, but it can't be as bad as Windows XP. Also, my Windows 98 is designed to handle Windows NT, because it says on the tower, "Designed For Windows 98 and Windows NT."

By the way, how good is a Celeron 1.4? I went back to some of the older posts and The Undertaker said somthing about a Celeron 1.4 being my only other choice for a processor.

Also, I said I didn't understand what he said, well now I do. Its amazing how much I learned from one thread.

[The Undertaker]

You can do a clean install with the upgrade version. It will ask for a 98/ME/2k CD during install. But XP Pro OEM is only $135 so there is no reason to get the upgrade version.
But as Looney pointed out, you can get a mobo/CPU (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=14) for about the same as the Powerleap upgrade. Only problem is your probably going to have to buy new RAM and maybe a case (Dell isn't good at sticking to standards).

[Salty Sam]

Is a Celeron better than a Pentium 2? And will it run Doom 3? I was looking at that Biostar M6VLQ and Celeron 1.3. Or what about that Mach Speed N2PAP and Athlon XP 2400+ or KT400 and Athlon XP 2400+. I think my friend has an Athlon XP 2400+ and he says it works great with newer games.

Also, how much does a new case cost? I'll ask a local computer expert about new RAM, since there's probably so many different amounts or you can get. There's about 3 computer stores in my area. But, I know none of my parents will take me over there anytime soon to ask questions.

EDIT: Durrrrrrrr, I'm so stupid, of course a Celeron is better than a Pentium 2, its 1.3 GHz!

Please tell me what CPU/mobo would be the best to get? Or are none of them good?

[jls23]

Guys the newest 6800 cards are basically overclocked versions of their predecessors, and doom3 reportedly has problems with overclocked video cards.

[Arkan]

Salty, why not save everyone the trouble and let us know your spending cap? Give us an amount to work with and i'm sure we can come up with a rig for you.

[Salty Sam]

I dunno...in 3 weeks might have 115-135 dollars. I'll just have to see how well I can save my money. Mainly, I'm buying everything one at a time. First I need a mobo/CPU, RAM, and a new case. Next I need a Video Card, but I won't worry about that right now since I don't have enough for one. Finally, I need a 2000 or XP upgrade if I could get some good news about one of them, or I might just stick to 98 and do that trick to get Doom 3 to work on 98. Only time will tell...

[FATAL]

So basically you need a totally new computer. A good one costs around 500€/600$ without sound card, monitor, or optional stuff.

[Salty Sam]

Yeah, but basically that's not an option for me. I don't have or will ever get that much money in the next few months. Plus, even if I get a new computer, I'll need to upgrade some stuff anyway (video card, etc.).

[jls23]

Well dude, yer screwed.

[Arkan]

you can always ask your pop to play on his machine.

I wouldn't bother wasting money upgrading your rig. Just ask for a new one for x-mas or something.

[Salty Sam]

That's what I've been doing and amazingly it works okay, and he has an Intel Extreme Graphics video card, which I'm guessing ain't very good. You know what sucks even more? There are 3 computers in my house and each has its advantages and disadvantages.

My Windows 98:
Advantage: I can upgrade it all I want and nobody will care.
Disadvantage: Its a Windows 98. I have no internet connection. Pentium 2.

My dad's Windows XP:
Advantage:Pentium 4. Its a Windows XP, nuff said.
Disadvantage: 56k modem. I can't upgrade it because its my dad's computer.

My brother's Windows 98:
Advantage: DSL!!!! Pentium 3.
Disadvantage: Again, its a Windows 98. Can't upgrade it.

Why am I cursed like this?! Why?! Why?!

[jls23]

If you don't have a job, get one. You're at least 14, right? A part-time job if you're young and don't have a car should get you enough money for a decent video card in a couple of weeks, as long as you get at least $100 every other week.

[Salty Sam]

Well, since I have school now, I can't get a job, but once school is over, I can get a job that at least pays $70 every other week. I'll just deal with what I have right now, if everyone thinks its useless to upgrade my computer.

[Arkan]

Wait a minute...i see something that i'm suprised no one picked up on. You're telling us that you have 3 computers under a single roof and you have no internet connection, your father is on a pokey 56k line while your brother cruises on DSL ?? Ever hear of a router? Tell your pops to drop the 56k line to save a few $$$ and lets all jump on DSL via a router !!

....and yes, upgrading your rig is fruitless. Don't waste money.

[Looney]

Yeah, but it can't be as bad as Windows XP. Also, my Windows 98 is designed to handle Windows NT, because it says on the tower, "Designed For Windows 98 and Windows NT."

This just means your "hardware" is capable of running NT OR 98, It doesn't mean 98 is compatable with the NT O/S. Thats like trying to run a CD in a cassette deck because they both run Dolby Sound. ;)

98 Is DOS based and runs in the FAT 32 format

NT/2000/XP Have NO DOS and are desigend to run formated to NTFS

As Undertaker said you can do a fresh install with the upgrades but, you still need the OEM 98/ME/2000..etc disk as a qualifing product in order to do that. Your Restore disk will not work for that and it will force you to load over the O/S, This is where the problems start.

Just a thought..... I started working at age 12 doing paper routes. Started mowing lawns and shovling snow when I was 10. I aways had money. ;)

[reysand]

"http://www.gamespot.com/features/6104596/index.html" Here gamespot has benchmarked different cpu's and different video cards. The Geforce 6800 ultra gave the best results, but they also made a point that its pointless to get the best card without having a cpu that will keep up with the card. The point is that you will need to match your card with your cpu. I suggest you check out this site it may shed some light on which cpu/video card you want to get.

[Salty Sam]

Alright, I might be able to get a new computer. I got a Dell magazine in the mail last week and I found the perfect computer in my opinion. Here's what has:

Dell Demension 8400.
Windows XP
Pentium 4 3.20 GHz
512MB DDR2 SDRAM (That's the RAM, right?)
80GB free space
Radeon X300 SE (Is that a good video card?)
16x DVD-ROM Drive (Huh? Doesn't say anything bout a CD-ROM drive...)

Total Cost: $1099 (or $33 a month)

So, would this be a good computer to get?

[FATAL]

In my opinion, that's a bit too good computer. AMD athlon 2600+ is the perfect budget processor, and you should take radeon 9600 (or nvidia equivalent) as your graphics card.
It comes cheap, and it's good enough to run the latest games with good graphics.
Also I would get 160 GB Hitachi as my hd, since I can get one for 90 €.
Windows home edition is something I don't recommend, although it's cheaper than the professional edition.
512 MB ddr should be fine.

Those are the main aspects when looking for a good computer. Since you don't have much money, I'd recommend this setup.

[PersN]

get a amd athlon xp , there cheap and will run doom three decent, a-bit/asus/and msi have good motherboards-make sure the mother board has onboard sound unless you want to buy a sound card, im using a abit board i picked up on newegg.com for $50, i am running doom 3 with a geforce fx 5200 128mb and the experience at 640x480 isnt bad at all when playing doom 3, i can get it up to 800x600 med settings but its too unstable of frame rates, the price of this card ranges from $60-$115. if your on a bugget, as it seems you are, this card will tide you over till you can save for something better also if your not a nvidia lover a radeon 9600se works jus as good, ddr ram is expensive but you must have atleast 512mb ddr nowadays which ranges from $70 and up, and finally a case, newegg.com gots some for $20-$25...if you build your on you'll need $300-$350 to be on the safe side...also if you do decide to build your own comp try to salvage as much as you can from your dell, cd rom drive, case, psu, ect

[jls23]

Oh just let salty get the damn computer! It fits his budget, and it's a damn fine comp.

[Salty Sam]

Ah, I'll work a little next summer and see how much I got by the end of the summer for a computer. I would get that Dell I like, but the problem is keeping up with the $33 monthly fee and not having my parents ticked because they have to pay for one of the months because I didn't have enough that cetain month. So, maybe I'll save up what I can and get the essentials.

[The Undertaker]

I don't like those 4 year payment plans Dell does. When your done paying for it its nearly obsolete (for gaming at least).