A place to vent about doom3

[jls23]

Hey guys, here's an idea for a topic: A thread where you can talk about what you love and hate about doom3. No shit like the below:

1. THE GRAPHICS!!!!

2. EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

Be more specific. Stuff like, for example, the bump mapping, the shadows, etc.

[TheVoid]

this should be moved to spoilers, because some of the stuff we may complain about may give some stuff away. i'll hold my thoughts until then.

[Aliotroph?]

You maybe want to shorten those lines a bit so I don't have to scroll this page 100% horizontally just to read it at 1024x768? Sheesh.

I think I did my D3 venting, but just to be sure, I figure the game world should be less scripted and static.

[Doom_Dude]

What wrong with scripted events? They add ambience and neat stuff that is specific and cool. I always like scripted events ever since I played Half-Life as they made the Black Mesa facility a much more real-like and interesting place to explore. Same goes for the UAC Mars Base....

[Aliotroph?]

Scripted stuff is cool, but the entire game doesn't let anything happen that isn't scripted.

jls23, your new spoiler warning is much better. :)

[TheVoid]

admins can move it. but i think your warning worked.

I HATED the Cyberdemon. What a waste. Totally easy to kill and crappy.

I want to know who played against the Cyberdemon in id's team and thought to themselves "yeah, THIS makes a good ending boss! call Todd! Tell him we're done!"

[jls23]

Glad to know that my spoiler warning worked.

BTW I bet they asked Romero lol

[Ravey]

Well, I got my copy of Doom 3 today and it is a really nice game I think. I had some performance issues, even at really low settings at first. I upgraded DirectX from 9.0b to 9.0c and got my latest graphics card drivers and it runs smoothly now. I'm enjoying the game and even though the multiplayer is limited, I found it innovative. I like how you can turn off the lights from the generators to ambush people. :D

My speakers aren't too good and I don't have surround sound which is probably a step down, but I am enjoying it. I don't see why some people seem to flame this game, my PC isn't too good (Pentium 4 3ghz / 128mb RAM / nVidia GeForceFX 5200 128mb) and it runs the game fine and it is enjoyable. But I don't understand why people try to boost their system to the moon with hi-res and AA, because animation and playability beats the extra quality.

I am really looking forward to the CDoom (Classic Doom) mod too, looks really promising and I loved the old doom games.

[jls23]

CDoom is contra-doom, and it is a sidescrolling platform game.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

What wrong with scripted events? They add ambience and neat stuff that is specific and cool. I always like scripted events ever since I played Half-Life as they made the Black Mesa facility a much more real-like and interesting place to explore. Same goes for the UAC Mars Base....What's wrong with scripted events in my opinion, is that they make a game more predictable and have a murderous effect on replayability. The scripted events in HL were better than those in Doom3 though, I think; if you are going to have scripted sequences in your game you might as well at least make them dramatic and impressive, after all.

My favourite thing about Doom3 has to be the feel of moving around and shooting in the game. id always seem to get this right. Obviously, the graphics engine is stunning as well.

[The Undertaker]

Pentium 4 3ghz / 128mb RAM / nVidia GeForceFX 5200 128mb
That has got to be the most unbalanced system I've even seen. You spend $200-500 for the CPU but $50 for 256Mb of RAM is too much. How you can run D3 without it paging every other second is beyond me. And I won't even start on the video card.

[DoomedAce]

Uhm... I honestly didn't read all that, so uhm... :p

I think the scripting is OK. It adds some shock-effects to the game (at least the first time you play through it)

And I think monster placement is pretty good too. It happened to me plenty of times that some demons/zombies appeared when I was backtracking to pick up armor or ammo I left behind. Or when I went through a hallway I thought I'd already cleared and suddenly a whole new bunch of Trites crawled out of the walls and took me by surprise.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

I think it'd be a terrible world where feelings, thoughts and opinions were never given, purely because of them being negative in sentiment.

At the end of the day, saying what you like and don't like (if you are being honest, and not grinding some petty axe) is the same thing - giving your opinion - regardless of whether it is positive or negative. Especially in Doom 3's case you see far more praise anyway, apart from on HL forums (a community who are known for their rabid loyalty) I rarely see Doom3 put-down avalanches.

[Doom_Dude]

I cut all the crap posts out of this topic. ToxicFluff I agree with what you say there. Of course people should be able to talk about both the good and the bad. I never said otherwise but lets not get into anymore of that.

Also I'm not a co-owner of this site or any other site on the net. I'm a volunteer who happens to moderate here to help out when I can and I do the news because I enjoy it.

[Aliotroph?]

Sounds about right Toxic.

[eX_Do0mY]

DOOM³ is a very great game.

You don't like it? Let's see you make a game that is better.

[GoldEyes]

That makes no sense. You can not like a game and not be able to make a game too.

There are LOTS of games that I don't like. But I can't make a game for the life of me. But that's what is so great about opinions.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

That makes no sense. You can not like a game and not be able to make a game too.

There are LOTS of games that I don't like. But I can't make a game for the life of me. But that's what is so great about opinions.I totally agree. I've always found the notion that you can't give an opinion on something unless you can actually implement it really inane.

[Doom_Dude]

Sometimes the hands-on approach brings a better understanding and appreciation of what goes into the fabrication of something like a game. But yeah I agree you don't need to be able to create a game to appreciate it for what it is.

[ARMYguy]

I must be a very simple person, because despite what may be bad, like the game being scripted a tonage, i still love the game like no other, and loved it again playing it again over and over. Call me a real DooM freak i guess.

[jls23]

Yeah people saying stuff like "Let's see you do a better job" in a case like this very annoying. Not everyone has millions of $ just hidden away, where they can just summon up a crack team of pro's out of their ass, and create the "best" game ever. It was their money and their time they may have wasted, so it was their fault, and we have a right to criticize so that they can do a better job next time.

BTW when you create a game, it may bring on over-appreciation for what you did, and you will not realize that you actually did a crap job. I'm not saying that D3 is crap, it is a very great game, the best I've played in a while, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical about it. You can like something, and at the same time, share what you dislike about it. It's kind of like saying why heaven might get a little boring. Not saying it will, but I'm just using it as an example.

Sorry if I drifted off topic a bit there.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

I must be a very simple person, because despite what may be bad, like the game being scripted a tonage, i still love the game like no other, and loved it again playing it again over and over. Call me a real DooM freak i guess.Call you a real Doom3 freak. Let's face it, it is different from the other games. And to pre-empt any defensiveness from anyone, different doesn't mean bad.

I can't wait for some user maps to come out though... I bet someone will come out with a faster paced style of gameplay some time soon.

[jls23]

By no means should the most hyped up games be compared, for they are in totally different departments. Except for HL2 and FarCry, of course. Now that will be fun(ny).

[Aliotroph?]

Sometimes the hands-on approach brings a better understanding and appreciation of what goes into the fabrication of something like a game. But yeah I agree you don't need to be able to create a game to appreciate it for what it is.

I've used Radiant before, and compared with Hammer I'm surprised anyone ever gets anything done with it. Hammer is pleasant. Radiant makes me wanna play Freecell.

You guys are right. In fact, I find sometimes you appreciate games more when you don't know how to create them. Ever since I learne to edit for DooM I've been picking out texture alignment problems, scripting bugs, crap level design, etc, in games. I can't play them anymore without thinking about the code and design behind them. At leat not after a while. It's still possible to be totally immersed in an FPS game for a while, but not forever.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

You guys are right. In fact, I find sometimes you appreciate games more when you don't know how to create them. Ever since I learne to edit for DooM I've been picking out texture alignment problems, scripting bugs, crap level design, etc, in games. I can't play them anymore without thinking about the code and design behind them. At leat not after a while. It's still possible to be totally immersed in an FPS game for a while, but not forever.It's true somtimes, I think. I remember having a film studies teacher who told me he could no longer watch films as a normal viewer, due to his involvement with the medium. He couldn't just sit down and enjoy the end result as a normal viewer, instead always analysing the cuts, camerawork, lighting and narrative pacing etc,.

As for Hammer, I find it easier than Radiant as well. Easier to learn, at least. But once I got the hang of GTKRadiant, I found it to be much much faster to work with.

[Doom_Dude]

Interesting points of view. Mostly when I play a game I try to look at how they put the architecture together and how they did the lighting.... I spend a lot of time taking screenshots of everything or just looking around at the level design after I kill off the vermin.

One thing that I don't like in Doom 3 is the grenades seems to bounce back in your face a lot.... seem a bit too bouncy even when deflecting them to go around a corner.

Ooooh and one thing nobody mentioned that I know of. Doom 3 sure is a stable game code-wise and unlike many other games it certainly doesn't need to be patched right off the shelf. Unless theres MP bugs I don't know about.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Interesting points of view. Mostly when I play a game I try to look at how they put the architecture together and how they did the lighting.... I spend a lot of time taking screenshots of everything or just looking around at the level design after I kill off the vermin.

One thing that I don't like in Doom 3 is the grenades seems to bounce back in your face a lot.... seem a bit too bouncy even when deflecting them to go around a corner.

Ooooh and one thing nobody mentioned that I know of. Doom 3 sure is a stable game code-wise and unlike many other games it certainly doesn't need to be patched right off the shelf. Unless theres MP bugs I don't know about.Well, the MP code is about the standard of Quake2's when it was first released; which is to say, awful. The in-game server browser is completely crap and buggy as hell too.

However, id have a history of releasing their games with crappy netcode and then patching them up after release.... and as you said, the engine is generally rock-solid stable, I've never even had one crash.

Heh, and as for the grenades I totally know what you mean. Nine times out of ten if I actually risk using them, I kill myself. No matter where I am, they just seem to come back to haunt me.

[DoomedAce]

I don't think grenades are that hard to handle. I agree that they bounce around a little too much, like they're made of rubber or something... bouncy. But that's not really a problem when you throw them directly at an enemy, as they'll immediately detonade on contact.

As the for the thing with people criticizing the game: You just can't please 'em all at the same time. No mather how well a game is designed, there will always be people bitching about it. That's why I first try to look at the positive aspects of a game, rather than immediately focusing on the bugs and flaws.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

As the for the thing with people criticizing the game: You just can't please 'em all at the same time. No mather how well a game is designed, there will always be people bitching about it. That's why I first try to look at the positive aspects of a game, rather than immediately focusing on the bugs and flaws.As I stated before this is basically the same as focusing on the negative aspects first... how about just trying to look at all aspects of the game, and getting a balanced viewpoint?

[DoomedAce]

As I stated before this is basically the same as focusing on the negative aspects first... how about just trying to look at all aspects of the game, and getting a balanced viewpoint?

Maybe it's just me, but I usually don't even notice most of the bad things about a game the first time I play it (Unless they are really, REALLY bad). Only later, after finishing the game or replaying the game a couple of times, do I start to notice them.

So, according to your statement of giving a complete or balanced viewpoint about a game, maybe I shouldn't give my opinion about Doom 3 just yet, seeing as I haven't finished it yet.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

stuffHeh, I get the sense I was talking crap in that last post for some reason anyway - what I said doesn't sit right with me, after reading it again.

[ARMYguy]

speaking about custom maps, anyone play kiltron1 yet? I liked it a lot, aside from the first vent i used noclip to actually clime into it lol

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Everyone seems to have trouble with that vent.... you gotta crouch jump, HL style. But yeah, I agree: it's a good map.

[Doom_Dude]

Maybe it's just me, but I usually don't even notice most of the bad things about a game the first time I play it (Unless they are really, REALLY bad). Only later, after finishing the game or replaying the game a couple of times, do I start to notice them.

Same here! Only bad things I normally notice right away are crappy controls and shitty camera physics (or whatever you call the thing that controls the camera angles and shit) or if monsters get stuck on stuff.... shit like that. ;)

I usually use my grenades before I see any monsters. Its satisfying to drop a grenade in a elevator shaft or lob one around a corner and hear a monster go tits up. Ahh gotta like that. Sucks tho when your grenade comes back to haunt you. :p It would be sweet if the marines would throw them back at you or if zombies would try to run away when one dropped into a room..

[DoomedAce]

It would be sweet if the marines would throw them back at you or if zombies would try to run away when one dropped into a room..

It would be sweet if the marines could throw grenades in the first place ;).
And it would be even sweeter to see their own grenades bounch back in their faces *giddy*.

[Doom_Dude]

LOL. Id like to see somebody make a Grenade marine. ;)

[Wicked Anime Kid]

Or a dumb grenade zombie...

Roar, oh shit that's the pin I threw away......*blam**grin*

[jls23]

lol It would be cool if you could start throwing it, then someone kills you, goes over to get your gun, and the grenade still explodes and puts him face down on the ceiling.

[Doom2Hell]

lol It would be cool if you could start throwing it, then someone kills you, goes over to get your gun, and the grenade still explodes and puts him face down on the ceiling.

that happens alot in enemy Territory to tell you the truth, if you have a grenade in your hand and you get killed, 9 times out of 10 it will drop out of your hand onto the ground, i have killed countless ppl that way, mostly coverts running over to me to finish me off and take my uniform, BLAM

and video games are art, there will always be art haters, art critics, art lovers and ppl that buy it just cuz its cool or expensive. and not all of THOSE ppl will have the same opinions about anything.

But i do like Doom 3, ALOT. The graphics engine is incredible, i love how they actually made all lights cast all shadows. The characters are great, those chaingunners are a bytch ass to kill, they take a beating. The arch viles i thought were good looking, but were a little weak, they used to be a nightmare to kill what with them reviving dead enemies and lighting you on fire, but now all they do is shoot a trail out, easy to sidestep, ah well. hell knights are a nightmare come true. The spiders are a nice addition, but i would have loved to see an arachnotron come rumbling down the hall at you, plasma gun blazing, and a spider mastermind would have been a sight to see, and fight, but alas, too many dreams go unanswered, but i am in no way dissapointed. from the interactive screens, to the well designed maps, excellent textures, characters, even the storage lockers with findable keycodes, awesome... and those darn martian buddy containers, i couldnt believ what you had to do to get into em...

I'm currently playing through the game on nightmare and making pretty good headway, its easier than i thought when i first realized you only get 25% health, because i thought that was it, but when i looked closer i saw the soul-cube icon, i was like oh weak, this is gonna be easier than i thought, but oh well

A+

[jls23]

I give the game a B (no + or -). Although, I must admit, most games, IMO, are C's. This is the best game I've played since, well, Ultimate Doom (no I don't like Doom 2 all that much). But geez, Doom2Hell, did you just wake up from hibernation or something? i've never seen you post on these forums before.

BTW I do believe HL2 will be a B-+, or a B.25, while doom 3 is a B.5 *thumbs* , and FC is a B.2.

*monkey* A monkey!

[GoldEyes]

D2H is my husband. And his posts are VERY rare. He was here way before I even joined, but stopped posting a lot about a year ago. He probably still wouldn't be posting much if he didn't play Doom 3. Heh.

[jls23]

They guy on the left in your old avatar? Was that him?

But the discussion of the Trite Breeding Facility leads me to this. The first batch of trites do not even attack you. Why? I believe I have an answer. Doom3 HAS NO AI. With such enclosed spaces, it would be quite easy to script all of it. Such as, "player walks here, trigger attack" or something like that. Or maybe it has hybrid AI (I just made that up), where things only dynamically attack you when you hit a trigger.

[GoldEyes]

No, that wasn't him. That was the lead singer of my favorite band. Pictures of me and D2H can be found here. (http://www.angelfire.com/oh/GreenDayGurl/)

[ToXiCFLUFF]

They guy on the left in your old avatar? Was that him?

But the discussion of the Trite Breeding Facility leads me to this. The first batch of trites do not even attack you. Why? I believe I have an answer. Doom3 HAS NO AI. With such enclosed spaces, it would be quite easy to script all of it. Such as, "player walks here, trigger attack" or something like that. Or maybe it has hybrid AI (I just made that up), where things only dynamically attack you when you hit a trigger.
It does have automatic AI. For instance, walk into a room and bring down the console (CTRL+ALT+tilde) and type: "spawn monster_demon_pinky". A pinky will spawn, and will also attack you - no scripting involved at all, in this case.

[ARMYguy]

Those trites can attack you, if you walk RIGHT next to them, they can actually see you then, jump down, and resume their normal jumping attacks. HL2 promises god like AI, i wonder if it will be so.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Those trites can attack you, if you walk RIGHT next to them, they can actually see you then, jump down, and resume their normal jumping attacks. HL2 promises god like AI, i wonder if it will be so.From the tests I ran, it was very good (and no doubt it'll have been improved from then). Didn't seem better than Far Cry (which has the best AI I find), but still decent.

Nothing directed at you now, but general rant upcoming: Thing is though, does AI really matter that much? It doesn't necessarily make a game any more fun. It's mainly a wow factor I think, and a marketing point for a game rather than being something too worthwhile in itself. Good AI on it's own is worthless in my opinion, it depends on how it fits into the gameplay.

For instance, Doom3. Was providing strategic, and slower fights in a challenging environment it's goal? I don't think so. You generally have your enemies appear in front of you (and often behind later on) in an area without many paths to run down or hide in - you shoot them until they are dead. Does this in any way stop Doom3 from being a good game? No.

Then take Far Cry. Good AI was necessary here, because enemies in Far Cry can basically have the same amount of health as you, the same speed and the same weapons. If Far Cry's AI was of the enemy-can-see-infinitely-far, enemy-always-knows-where-to-find-player-in-a-chase, enemy-runs-straight-for-you type of system, A)It would be fucking impossibly difficult. B)The enemies wouldn't be able to navigate the kind of levels Far Cry had.

In summary, I think it depends on the game as to whether AI adds much-- I don't think it's any guarantee of a fun game.

[jls23]

Holy shit! ToXiCLUFF, how did your post count get so high so fast!?

Yes, but it sucks the thrill out knowing something like that.

BTW I forgot about the spawning :P

[BetoTheDestroyer]

Game was cool i liked how it felt like you were in a movie and everything was up to you.THe whole game kicked ass untill i killed cyberdemon and saw the ending..........how could they have done that to cyberdemon *plop* .


Also FOR WHOEVER HAS THE PATCH THAT MAKES THE BODIES STAY LOOK OUT IT WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO DEFEAT CYBERDEMON WITH THIS PATCH BECAUSE SINCE THE BODIES DONT DISSOLVE(SINCE THERE USED TO MAKE THE MONSTERS KEEP COMING AT YOU TO POWER SOULD CUBE AND KILL THE CYBERDEMON)NO MORE MONSTERS WILL SPAWN SO YOU WONT BE ABLE TO BEAT THE GAME.

[DoomedAce]

Ouch... My ears. Would you mind not yelling so loud? I'm not deaf, you know. Oh wait, now I am. *smirk*

Anyway, reading all this makes me look less and less forward to finally meeting the cyberdemon *bug*

[Doom_Dude]

I have no idea why the trites and that one Imp act like they don't see you in that custom map. I'm working on a goth fortress level and for the hell of it I plopped in an IMP. The imp attacked me right away and had NO Problems following me through the map and in the outside area he really rolled and jumped..... damned cool. Theres also a few AI related nodes in the editor and I thought you had to use them... apparently not. Hmmmm.

I agree with what Toxic said there. Only thing id like to see improved on in AI for games like Doom 3 are monsters like the Zomb Marines running away when getting low on health and posiibly ambushing you in anouther area.... or have the guy that is using a crate for cover, duck down then not pop up again after doing that a few times because he decided to crawl around to sneak up on you. They do need to do more interesting things with AI, thats for sure. ;)

[jls23]

Ok, good. we have been moved to spoilers. Glad to see people actually like (for once) one of my threads. And no one's gotten pissed at me yet! :D

[FATAL]

One thing that is VERY stupid in DooM 3, is that some of the demons are helpless if you're a bit higher than they are. Trites and pinkys are cannon fodder then, not to mention those teleporter fellows (or maybe they're just invisible during the "warp", since you can hear footsteps even when you don't see them, you just can't shoot at them).

The grenades aren't done very well. I used 3 grenades during the time I played doom. I didn't find them very useful.

I thought that cyberdemon was pretty cool, though he's way too weak, and a bad fighter. If he would have rapid fire mode in his rocket launcher, he would be a bit harder to beat. He's also way too slow, and can't predict player's movement.

[jls23]

Damn we died already.