jHexen/jHeretic modelyard

[Jaquboss]

Here is place to post screenshots of your new models and links for them.

[Jaquboss]

Ok I have downloaded some todo models from FTP.
Now i have writen some deds.
Ok Slyrr your models are nice , but upload them with tga skins.
And your rod ammo model : what is hell that , how can I use that??
I used round model for that with radial gradient reflection and df_litshiny - it looks fine,
but how can I get flame particles if Engine don´t draw them in transparent objects??
Wait for screenshots I have problems with uploading (maybe fu***ing firewall)

[edorien]

lo rod ammo model appears to be a broken egg, we are expected to use multiple particle effects to create essentially lines of flame.
There appears to be a problem with this model, and the mace ammo model also.

And
http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=24006

[Jaquboss]

Hmmm a did that as fireball look interesting , but doomsday doesn´t allow much particle generators :-(

[edorien]

actually the existing particle generator is sufficient, fire trails using it can look suitable so long as the variables are chosen carefully

[Jaquboss]

Yeah litshiny look like q3 environs , it also don´t fade when looking up or down when it´s on hud weapon. It looks great on glass objects. Anyone using litshiny??
When I will be able to post screenshots I will post some examples.

LITSHINY RULEZ!

[Jaquboss]

Here is now something for jhexen - particles.
Sorry for zip format... There are some particles that I used for models (Fire deamon flames for example) If you see something that can look nice in particle version just say.
It looks that deds are uploaded corectly.
Here is it. (http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/FX.zip) put that to auto dir.

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/H-Item-3Ammo.zip => Uploading seems to work now! here are theese ammo models.

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/2xactors.zip => two more guys : Bishop and Affrit, Both retextured models from jHeretic models pack

[edorien]

those links don't work

[Jaquboss]

Try to copy text to your adress panel.
Damn it , it fowards you to this forums , does it?
Do above

[edorien]

ok save target as works..

[Harry]

EDIT: sorry bout that, wrong thread

[Jaquboss]

what doesn´t work ? those packages?? I use 1.8.1 rc4 and it works good.

[edorien]

the zips cotain individual .pk3's for the models

HOWEVER
er... the large mace ammo looks good, but on the small mace ammo the skin doesn't wrap well.

The phoeix ammo (large and small) is just ugly.
For those who haven't tried it a square 2d particle flame coming out of a large orb using the skin from his large mace ammo.

Hexen affrit, skin edited from heretic model looks good, it you disregard the square particle flame surrounding it

[Harry]

EDIT: sorry bout that, wrong thread AGAIN oops i'll test it soon :p

[edorien]

particle affects in doomsday can be done much better than this.

[Jaquboss]

Too much work and I still can´t make it into orb.
And I can have only one particle per object (or I can do more generators? - never tried)

[Jaquboss]

Have you a good idea how to make good alternation??
I can also use texture for flames -- but too much work.

[Jaquboss]

And one more thing - orbs have god models and skins redrawed and bit remodeled - using just q2moddeler so i can´t do almost nothing... and all other is done by slyrr i have done only deds
Yeah and copy particles from jDRP to jHeretic / jHexen dir ..

[Jaquboss]

tried fx.ded ? do you like teleport smoke?

[edorien]

didn't notice them.
Not sure if dani approves of using his work in jheretic though.
yes you can do more than one generator per object.

Download slyrr's golem model (from todo list) and use this as ded.
An example of 'better' particle fx
Header { Version = 5; }
########========-------- GOLEM / MUMMY --------========########

Model {
State = "MUMMY_LOOK1";
Md2 { File = "Actors/Golem/Golem.md2"; Frame = "idle01"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.25;
Md2 { Frame = "idle02"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "idle03"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.75;
Md2 { Frame = "idle04"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_LOOK2";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "idle05"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.25;
Md2 { Frame = "idle06"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "idle07"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.75;
Md2 { Frame = "idle08"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_WALK1";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "walk01"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "walk02"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_WALK2";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "walk03"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "walk04"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_WALK3";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "walk05"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "walk06"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_WALK4";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "walk07"; };
}

#>*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "walk08"; };
}<#

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_ATK1";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "attack01"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.333;
Md2 { Frame = "attack02"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.666;
Md2 { Frame = "attack03"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_ATK2";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "attack04"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.333;
Md2 { Frame = "attack05"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.666;
Md2 { Frame = "attack06"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_ATK3";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "attack07"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "attack08"; };
}

*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK1"; Inter = 0; Md2 { Frame = "2attack01"; }; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK2"; Md2 { Frame = "2attack02"; }; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK3"; Md2 { Frame = "2attack03"; }; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK4"; Md2 { Frame = "2attack05"; }; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK5"; Md2 { Frame = "2attack06"; }; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYL_ATK6"; Md2 { Frame = "2attack07"; }; }
*Model { Inter = 0.99; Md2 { Frame = "2attack08"; }; }

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_PAIN1";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "pain01"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_PAIN2";
Md2 { Frame = "pain02"; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE1";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { File = "Actors/Golem/Golem-Death.md2"; Frame = "death01"; };
Md2 {
File = "Actors/Golem/Golem-Ghost.md2";
Frame = "death01";
Flags = "df_brightshadow2 df_fullbright";
Transparent = 0.65;
};
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE2";
Md2 { Frame = "death02"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death02"; Transparent = 0.7; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE3";
Md2 { Frame = "death03"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death03"; Transparent = 0.75; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE4";
Md2 { Frame = "death04"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death04"; Transparent = 0.8; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE5";
Md2 { Frame = "death05"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death05"; Transparent = 0.85; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE6";
Md2 { Frame = "death06"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death06"; Transparent = 0.9; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE7";
Md2 { Frame = "death07"; };
Md2 { Frame = "death07"; Transparent = 0.95; };
}

*Model {
State = "MUMMY_DIE8";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "death08"; };
Md2 {
Frame = "death08";
Transparent = 1; # Won't be rendered.
};
}

# Hide the sprite soul.
Model {
State = "MUMMY_SOUL1";
Md2 { File = ""; };
}
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL2"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL3"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL4"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL5"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL6"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMY_SOUL7"; }


#####====---
# Mummy leader attack fire.
Generator {
State = "MUMMYL_ATK2";
Flags = "gnf_blend gnf_modelonly";
Particles = 100;
Speed = 4;
Speed rnd = .5;
Center { 0 0 10 };
Spawn radius = 12;
Spawn age = 20;
Max age = 80;
Spawn rate = 7;
Vector { 0 0 1 };
Vector rnd = 0.9;

Stage {
Type = "pt_point"; Flags = "ptf_bright ptf_dietouch";
Radius = 0;
Tics = 4; Rnd = .4;
Color { 1 1 1 1 };
Resistance = 0.1; Gravity = -0.3;
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point"; Flags = "ptf_bright ptf_dietouch";
Radius = 12;
Tics = 18; Rnd = .5;
Color { 1 .95 .8 .8 };
Resistance = 0.1; Gravity = -0.3;
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point"; Flags = "ptf_bright ptf_dietouch";
Radius = 9;
Tics = 10; Rnd = .6;
Color { 1 .7 .5 .4 };
Resistance = 0.1; Gravity = -0.3;
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Radius = 6;
};
}


##Flaming skull
--------

State {
ID = "MUMMYFX1_1" ;
Sprite = "FX15" ;
Frame = 32768 ;
Tics = 6 ;
Next state = "MUMMYFX1_2" ;
}

State {
ID = "MUMMYFX1_2" ;
Sprite = "FX15" ;
Frame = 32769;
Tics = 6 ;
Next state = "MUMMYFX1_3" ;
}

State {
ID = "MUMMYFX1_3" ;
Sprite = "FX15" ;
Frame = 32770;
Tics = 6 ;
Next state = "MUMMYFX1_1";
}



Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1";
Offset XYZ {0 -15 0} ;
Scale =0.33;
Inter = 0;
Md2{ File = "Actors/golem/golem-skull.md2";
Frame = "idle01";

};
}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1";
Inter = 0.5;
Md2{ Frame = "idle02";
};

}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_2";
Inter = 0 ;
Md2{ Frame = "idle03";
};

}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_2";
Inter = 0.5;
Md2{ Frame = "idle04";
};

}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_2";
Inter = 0 ;
Md2{ Frame = "idle05";
};

}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_3";
Inter = 0.5;
Md2{ Frame = "idle06";
};

}

Copy Model {
State = "MUMMYFX1_4";
Inter = 0 ;
Md2{ Frame = "idle07";
};

}

##Particle trail

Generator {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1" ;
Flags = spawn | srcdir | modelonly;
Center { 0 0 0 } ;
Speed = 1 ;
Speed rnd = .1 ;
Spawn age = -1 ;
Max age = -1 ;
Particles = 100 ;
Spawn rate = 16 ;
Spawn Rnd = 0.4 ;
Vector rnd = 1 ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 1 ;
Flags = bright ;
Resistance = 0 ;
Radius = .5; Color { 1 .843 0 .01 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Flags = bright ;
Resistance = 0 ;
Radius = .25 ; Color { .961 .803 .05 .07 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Flags = bright ;
Tics = 10; Rnd = .2 ;
Resistance = 0 ;
Radius = .034 ; Color { .95 .1 .1 .24 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 15 ;
Resistance = .12 ;
Radius = .027 ; Color { .941 .765 .15 .8 } ;
Resistance = 0.1 ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 32 ;
Radius = 0.39 ;
Bounce = 0 ;
Resistance = 0.12 ;
Gravity = 0 ;
Color { .934 .723 .2 0.3 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Radius = 0.21 ;
Color { .927 .687 .25 0 } ;
} ;
}

Generator {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1" ;
Flags = spawn | extra | blend | srcdir | modelonly;
Center { 0 0 0 } ;
Speed = .2 ;
Speed rnd = 1 ;
Spawn age = -1 ;
Max age = -1 ;
Particles = 100 ;
Spawn rate = 18 ;
Spawn Rnd = .2 ;
Vector rnd = .1 ;
Presim = 100 ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 1 ;
Flags = bright | dietouch ;
Resistance = 0 ;
Radius = 0.54; Color { 1 .843 0 1 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 4 ;
Flags = dietouch ;
Resistance = .12 ;
Radius = 0.7 ; Color { .961 .803 .05 .1 } ;
Bounce = .8; Resistance = 0.01 ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 8 ;
Flags = dietouch ;
Radius = .63 ;
Bounce = 0 ;
Resistance = 0.12 ;
Gravity = 0 ;
Color { .95 .1 .1 .24 } ;
} ;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point" ;
Tics = 12 ;
Flags = dietouch ;
Radius = .8 ;
Color { .927 .687 .25 0 } ;
} ;
}


Generator {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1";
Flags = "gnf_blend gnf_modelonly gnf_srcdir";
Center { 0 0 0 };
Particles = 200;
Speed = 1;
Speed rnd = 1;
Spawn age = -1;
Max age = -1;
Spawn rate = 1;
Vector { 0 0 0 };
Vector rnd = 0.4;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Radius = 8;
Tics = 10;
Rnd = 0.3;
Color { 1 .843 0 1 };
Gravity = -0.35;
Resistance = 0.1;
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Radius = 2;
Color { .927 .687 .25 0 };
};
}

##explosion

Model {
State = "MUMMYFXI1_1";
Md2 { File = ""; };
}
*Model { State = "MUMMYFXI1_2"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYFXI1_3"; }
*Model { State = "MUMMYFXI1_4"; }


Generator {
State = "MUMMYFXI1_1";
Flags = blend ;
Speed = 2;
Spawn radius = 10;
Spawn age = 4;
Max age = 50;
Particles = 20;
Spawn rate = 5;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Tics = 10;
Radius = 5;
Bounce = 0;
Resistance = .01;
Color { 1 .873 0.213 1 };
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Tics = 7.5;
Radius = 5;
Color { .967 .843 0.237 0.66 };
};
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Radius = 20;
Tics = 10;
Color { .927 .687 .25 0.33 };
};

Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Radius = 20;
Tics = 12.5;
Color { .927 .461 .273 0};
};
}

[Jaquboss]

T om HANKS edorien

[Jaquboss]

thanks for example i will se what i can do and i have some ideas..

[edorien]

ook i've tried the models using the jdrp's particle effects and using that it looks much better, although you may have overdone it with the no. of effects on them imps.
And again I doubt if dani will be that happy about this use of those resources.

[Jaquboss]

I don´t like imp´s fire its very old ded also is very mysterious that df_dim don´t work on imp so I must write more deds, and my animation frame for idle imp is not very good , i will release update because of theese things and there is also a little mistake..
I wrote FIRED_ICE instead FIRED_ICE1 i have also serpent and maulator.
The serpent is same but i modifed ice state . It now looks like frozen ettin , i like it more , how about you?

[edorien]

like what more?

[Jaquboss]

Do you think that big point particles in the center of his body can look nice??

[edorien]

how about lots of smaller particles instead from multiple generators ( flag = extra, on second or higher generator)

[Slyrr]

I meant for the phoenix ammo to be orbs that were 'broken open' so that the flames in them could be particle generated. Hence, they look less like orbs and more like orbs that have the top section 'scooped' out (or melted by flames).

This was because the sprites, as mentioned before, always rotate to face the player. A 3D model can't do that. But the sprites disctinctly show tiny flames inside them. But particle flames inside a model would look weird, so I redesigned the ammo in such a way that the flames would be exposed.

If you can't make particle flames on the ammo, I can redesign them as boring ol' orbs, but they'd probably wind up looking just the same as the MACE ammo.....

Can you post screenshots of what the mace/phoenix ammo looks like? You keep saying that it looks wierd and the skin isn't applying properly. I need to get an idea of how it looks on your end before I can make any guesses as to what may be happening, or how to fix it.....

Slyrr

[edorien]

I'm unable to post screenshots, so i'll post the ded file instead, just copy this into the existing file, and see for yourself, (having your models in the correct directory.)
No particleFx have yet been added.

Header { Version = 6; }

########========-------- SMALL rod AMMO --------========########

Model {
State = "AMP1_1";
Scale = 0.25;
Md2 { File = "Items/ammo/rod/phoenixammosm.md2";
};
}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP1_2";}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP1_3";}

########========-------- HEFTY rod AMMO --------========########

Model {
State = "AMP2_1";
Scale = 0.25;
Md2 { File = "Items/ammo/rod/phoenixammoLG.md2";
};
}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP2_2";}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP2_3";}

The flames can/will be added later and the model made to align with the player's view

[Jaquboss]

Hmmm I am now working on jHexen -- I must complete Hud weapons - Any good skiner there? (my textures are terrible)

[Jaquboss]

And that ded above is nice , but it isn´t needed because sryrr rod models are very bad!

[Jaquboss]

If you just need web hosting and got good connection you may try http://members3.freewebs.com for example

[Jaquboss]

Great Firestoem is completed (both hud and ground) uploading now

[Jaquboss]

Damn it finding new faster webhosting

[Harry]

hmm, the afrit has no fire

[DaniJ]

Jaquboss - Any chance you could use the edit button rather than multi-posting please?

[edorien]

for the fire you have to download the fx.zip file as well, and extract dani's jdrp particle textures into the jhexen directory.

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/firestorm.pk3 => firestorm is there

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/mage.pk3 => mage hud and world models except bloodscourge

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/Serpent.zip => serpent model with modifed frozen look

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/weapons.zip => more world weapons

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/hudweapons.zip => more hud weapons

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/Hudserpent.zip => this is last fot now - hud serpent staff model

[edorien]

first links don't work again must do save target as...
second fighter won't load with these weapons. (hammer model may be corrupt)
third why are all the cleric weapons tinted green?

edit
fourth particle generator on firestorm doesn't work
serpent rod scale may be wrong
mace animation?

fifth mage weapon 1 blue gem out of plane with rest of model
mage skins could be a bit less white.

sixth did you try these before uploading them?

[Harry]

I'm sorry, I am usually enthusiastic but there is nothing good I can say about those HUD models :(

[Jaquboss]

I used q2 moddeler and it´s hell to create good animations.
Skins are bad that is right i need to help with them.
They are not complete version feel free to mod them
VERY OOPS I forgot to load shiny textures.
and Hud hammer you say that is bad ??
I will try to repair reupload it

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/shiny.zip pleeease download this!!!
edit:don´t do that download file under this

[Jaquboss]

UPDATE!! extract shinies and put common dir to data/jhexen/models/
My fault i have packed that badly
EDIT: www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/shinytexs.zip this will be good..

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/newhudhammer.zip here is separate hud hammer download

[Harry]

the link for the shiny textures doesn't work even if you choose save target as :(
and the hammer is about the same

[Jaquboss]

use your mouse - do this click at the space betweeen the end of link and space hold your mouse button ride at the space before start of the link press control-c then go to that location by pasting that(control-v) at your navigation bar, I don´t know why the links aren´t working

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/h-HUD-necro.zip -here is very strange package - you will have a couple of zip´s and one pk3 extracl this then extract zips and copy pk3 to auto folder
It´s for jHeretic

[edorien]

still must do save target as.... on links
newhudhammer.zip and shinytexs.zip both contain the same files.

this hammer model works, however it may be a slight bit too small, the skin needs work.

Suggestion rather than using q2modeler, download gmax , and a suitable md2 exporter script and make to models in that then reopen and save in the tool you already have.
However animating models is a pain in whichever tool you use, it just takes time, a bit of luck, (and trial and error) so testing the models ingame is essential

It takes time to make good skins, so maybe rather than releasing lots of models in a short period of time, instead release less and spend more time tweaking the models and skins.

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/h-actor-corvus.zip here is heretic guy with visible weapons!
You now can see what is other players carrying!!

[Jaquboss]

I have gmax but exporter is problem.I´m looking foward md3 support.
edit:I am posting links as text like this www.google.com
I got it! it just don´t work with http://
nope it doesn´t help...

[Harry]

You could try milkshape, It has an md2 exporter but when you re-import them they don't have animations :(

[edorien]

slow down, spend more time on each individual model/skin

i have to say that personally i prefer cain's crossbow.
With the crossbow bolts, you may have overdone it with the particle fx and the sprites are still visible through it
The gauntlets skin is a bit too shiny and white.
The tome of power skin could use a bit more detail.
The shadowsphere model is Slyrr's correctly animated so no trouble there.
I could find any change to the wall torch.
The morph ovum model is a white egg, with a 2d green flame, (how about doing a band of particles around the model instead? (see d'sparil model), and maybe make the skin slightly less white)
And the try to stop multi-posting

[Jaquboss]

Problem with too bright models is folowing - they are fullbright and it can be changed only in state, and that will make them non-fullbright in sprite version , df_dim is not working on some models.
Change on torch is particles , old one used only a model hir is model with df_dim and particles

[Jaquboss]

You could try milkshape, It has an md2 exporter but when you re-import them they don't have animations :(
Milkshape os shareware and i don´t like it.
It has also bad md2 exporter and boring with bones.
Md2 have no bones, maybe you must add bones to have animation

[Jaquboss]

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-hudhammer.zip => improved skin and animation added shiny effect , same model.
Now working on crossbow , mage weapons for hexen will be much harder because they are fullbright and ldf_dim doesn´t work on them,maybe there will be need for new model.
Can someone do effects/skin for Wraithverge??

[edorien]

thats the same skin no apparent change,
suggestion remove particle affects on the weapons, and they look better
by weapon i mean the non-hud ones

[Jaquboss]

ok that´s no problem , i were inspired by wight axe when writing that ded.

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace.zip
new skin and redone attack frame , a bit adjustment of size.
Animation is auto done by engine , but it is NOT interpolated like md2 animation , do anyone know how to turn this off??

[edorien]

To improve your animations, add more frames to them, (yes it is a bit of work)

Your code for the mace animation
*Model { State = "CMACEDOWN";}
*Model { State = "CMACEUP";}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_1";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_2";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_3";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_4";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_5";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_6";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_7";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_8";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_9";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_10";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_11";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_12";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_13";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_14";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_15";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_16";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
*Model { State = "CMACEATK_17";Md2{Frame = "attack";};}
This has only 2 frames 1 idle, and 1 attack.
Now extract the shotgun,md2 from the jdrp and see (with q2model-viewer) it has 5 frames showing the shot, and another 5 for the recoil.
Now repeat this with the pistol, this also has 5 frames for its animation.


A single state from the wight model for heretic:
Model {
State = "KNIGHT_STND1";
Scale = 0.92;
Flags = "df_ptoffsub1";
Md2 { File = "Actors/Wight/Wight.md2"; Frame = "idle01"; };
Md2 {
File = "Actors/Wight/Wight-Axe.md2";
Frame = "idle01";
Flags = "df_fullbright df_specular";
Shiny skin = "Shiny.pcx";
Shiny = .4;
};
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.25;
Md2 { Frame = "idle02"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle02"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "idle03"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle03"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.75;
Md2 { Frame = "idle04"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle04"; };
}

*Model {
State = "KNIGHT_STND2";
Inter = 0;
Md2 { Frame = "idle05"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle05"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.25;
Md2 { Frame = "idle06"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle06"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.5;
Md2 { Frame = "idle07"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle07"; };
}

*Model {
Inter = 0.75;
Md2 { Frame = "idle08"; };
Md2 { Frame = "idle08"; };
}

It has 8 different frames of animation (idle01-8), and this is for a single state :

{Frame = "attack";};}
You can have a different frame attached to each state. The 17 different states for this attack animation means that there were seventeen images of the mace sprite used in creating the original animation, rather than 2.

I repeat,

Slow Down,

Rather than spending an hour on the overall model spend an hour working on each individual frame of the animation, as well as a similar amount of time working on the initial model.

The sheer length of time required to create high-quality models/skins is the primary reason that the heretic/hexen model packs weren't complete a long time ago.
Slyrr has been working on that Korax model for at least a month, (probably a lot, lot more) and will probably take another week or so before the model is finished.

Edit:
And one more thing
Please stop double, triple, quadruple posting

[Jaquboss]

I now you don´t need to give me theese examples , I only fear that mace swings automaticly,
so more frames will look more nice but swing will be still choppy .... ok i will try that ..

[Jaquboss]

Question : should be better if I ad idle animation (like jDRP plasmagun)?

[Jaquboss]

HEY SKYJAKE??PLEASE how can I get rid that auto swing it very bothering!!

[Harry]

Jaquboss, there is an edit button so that you don't have to post multiple times :p

[edorien]

just been looking through the hexen.wad file.
I was wrong there are only 5 frames for the sprite.
the swing won't be choppy if the frames are made at suitable points in the swing.
use this wad editor to view the wad (http://doomworld.com/xwe)
(Cleric mace sprites from CMCE(A-F))

Idle animations could look nice but focus first on getting attack animation right.
And please stop double-posting
(edit button bottom-right corner)


atou swing? what's that

[Jaquboss]

Ok I´m making md3 models I hope that somebody will convert it

I can see sprites in wintex

edit: autoswing - i am calling the feature (maybe it was in original hexen too)
that move with sprite to emote motion, bad is that it also move with models and it looks ver choppy

Screenshots of new model Must do texture , reduce polys and tweak model , i will hopefuly use that on warrior model , but I have no experience with modeling characters

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/helmmethires.png

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/helmmetlowres.png
here is model used in jhexen originaly from hexen 2 (OT:I liked that game would be nice if doomsday support that , but quake engine is a "bit" diffirent.. )

[Slyrr]

I originally asked SKYJAKE if a circle of particles could be used around the morph ovum. He said that it would be better to have the ring of polys instead....

Can anyone post screenshots of how the mace/phoenix ammo look in game? Can't install the file listed on p2 of the thread for some reason. If it's just the skin that's not applying properly, I suspect it's because the skin needs to be flipped, either horizontally or vertically in photoshop....

Slyrr

[edorien]

Jaquboss, as i said before the reason the animations are choppy is because they lack a sufficient number of frames for it.
But to change the timing of the model animations, you would use the command Tics = x; (where x is a number, the default for each model/sprite is given in the file objects.ded)


Ok Slyrr, seeing how i'm unable to post screenshots i've e-mailed them to you.(and by the way your email address shown on korax preview page is wrong, thats why chilvence couldn't contact you)

Oh i've found a way to post the screenshots if you haven't checked your email yet see page 5

[Harry]

you can post screen shots if you log in to photobucket so you can upload pics to there and post the URL that is under the image that you have uploaded ;) it's at www.photobucket.com

[edorien]

Thank you for your interest in joining Photobucket.com.

Because of the overwhelming response for our free accounts,
new users may only register between 10pm-2am and 10am-2pm mst.

The current time is 4:25 am mst

Maybe later, but thanks for the link

[Jaquboss]

Got nice 17frames animation + 5 idle frames , now need to rewrite deds.
HAHA got it there is some misc defining position!!

Edit: there arn´t 17attack frames it´s only a single attack but re-fire action is onframe 12 .. need to remake frams , damn it!
next edit:Done ! I have a question . Anyone tried corvus with VWEPS??

edit: http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace.zip done ready for download!

[Harry]

yay, you edited your post ;)
That mace is kind of white, is the skin a pcx? and the animation isn't smooth at all plus I had to edit the ded file to get it to show up :p
EDIT: oh right it's a png

[edorien]

yeah i notice later there are only 5 frames for the sprite.

I was wrong there are only 5 frames for the sprite.

i thought it was 17 because of the 17 stages in your code, however you can still use all your frames, (see wight ded posted earlier)

[Jaquboss]

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace.zip

edit: yeah i notice later there are only 5 frames for the sprite. Quote: I was wrong there are only 5 frames for the sprite. i thought it was 17 because of the 17 stages in your code, however you can still use all your frames, (see wight ded posted earlier)

Not a problem now got 26 attack frames , i think that it´s enoughtyay, you edited your post That mace is kind of white, is the skin a pcx? and the animation isn't smooth at all plus I had to edit the ded file to get it to show up EDIT: oh right it's a png

I like tga most , it van be very very easly comressed in zip with great results. but pk3´s used by doomsday don´t allow compression :(


edit: woa I don´t need to use inter= xx ??

no mace visible in game

ok i will try to post new pk3 i will look at it.
I have all extracted and working in data/jhexen/models/ and making pk3´s only when i am uploading something.

From now i will test pk3´s too

[edorien]

no mace visible in game
oh yeah
inter = xx is needed


edit
attack animation much better
skin needs to be darker


maybe in hawthorn, (but thats unlikely)
2.0

[Jaquboss]

I am ***** XYZ**!! I have placed models just to jhexen/models must be in jhexen/models/hud/
ok

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace-fixed.zip - this will be MUCH better

Edit:I don´t like a chop at idle animation , must examinate it!

skin needs to be darker
not a problems , but If i can use shaders and define non shine places in alpha channel
the model will be better.
Which version should have shaders??

EDIT:www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace-fixed.zip new version have same url .added new envmap and darkened skin


maybe in hawthorn, (but thats unlikely) what version is hawthorn ?? (2.0??)

[edorien]

that mace is much better now, well done

[Jaquboss]

that mace is much better now, well done
maybe now I can "fix" next weapon , hmm mabe ice cone - that needs tweaking a much
I am on it

EDIT: added flash to wand / new skin for ice cone and wand

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-wandandcone.zip uploaded - note maybe wand can have some animations , but bob is animated by misc. Wand doesn´t more motion.

[edorien]

The problem with those ammo types
(the screenshots you requested Slyrr)

In game shots
Small mace ammo (http://tinypic.com/206z6)
Small Phoenix ammo (http://tinypic.com/206yh)

Viewed in G-max
Small Phoenix ammo (http://tinypic.com/206zc)
Small mace ammo (http://tinypic.com/206zq)


wand may be a bit too small,
skin detail
fingers look wrong, where the blue/white particle cloud gone (better fx)

it is on the right side it has a left hand
oh dear, that will take a lot to fix

[Jaquboss]

thats very bad i god hand from zdoomgl..
Making hand iss a bit hard :-)
i will resize wand , not a problem
also need to set some var to particle , but that is engine error - you can have only limited number f ptx generators

For harry : as I ´ve said : no experience with characters/or their parts
Hand is not done by me, it´s from jdoom pistol :-)
For all: www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/FX.ded there is missing ptx fix in ded format

www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace-fixed-righthand.zip - here is with new skin(you will don´t notice that) and right hand (if still want to have left hand :-) then you can mirror hud models at control panel)

[Harry]

problem with the new mace: it has the wrong hand. when it is on the right side it has a left hand :p but it is much better ;)

[edorien]

problem with your fixed mace, the idle animation may need to be redone. The spike on the mace appear to be dancing, but skin is better

[Harry]

problem with your fixed mace, the idle animation may need to be redone. The spike on the mace appear to be dancing, but skin is better
Yeah, the spikes appear to be dancing because md2s aren't that good with animations so sometimes the vertexes swim like on quake 2 on some of the HUD weapons.
The model is much improved though ;)

[Jaquboss]

Yeah, the spikes appear to be dancing because md2s aren't that good with animations so sometimes the vertexes swim like on quake 2 on some of the HUD weapons.
The model is much improved though ;)

need md3 format , and floating vertexes are builded automitacly , many md2´s have this problem , I have a knight model for quake2 and it looks like he is underwater.
But some models are without problems , don´t know how to prevent it..

[Harry]

Jaquboss, what model editor do you use, can you give me a link for it because in milkshape you can't name the animations or anything and can only do 1 :(
EDIT: ah, I've got it, it's called quake 2 modeler. all I wanted was a way to rename frames so this can do it. I have all I need: MS3D, Lithunwrap and quake2modeler :D:D:D

[Slyrr]

OK - I've examined the screenshots as best I can, and I still think my initial observations are correct. Here is a composite image.....

http://home.comcast.net/~gregfisk/modelz.jpg

I mentioned bofore, and I mention again, I dont' think the DEFS you're using are pointing the right models to the right skins somehow. The large phoenix ammo is using one of the monster or skull skins, not the large phoenix ammo skin. And I still think you need to open GMAX, AND photoshop, and try flipping the skin in pshop, either horizontally or vertically, then saving it, then re-applying the skin to the mesh in gmax, seeing if it works, then trying it the other way until you get it right.

If the skins are properly applied, the models look fine....

Slyrr

[DaniJ]

Gmax is the problem if your exporting the model from that. Before you do so you need to perform a UVW Xform - flip vertical on it.

[edorien]

ok i flipped vertically) the skins, (they now look fine in g-max), rewritten the Defs (again, and am certain the skins are applied to the correct model, i even tried intentionally having the models with the wrong skin) and still, I get the same results.

Dani, ok tried importing slyrr's model into g-max then exporting it again after trying your suggestion. This has a result, a GL_Prepareskin error upon loading an area with the ammo types present


The third rewrite of the phoenix rod ammo def
Header { Version = 6; }

########========-------- SMALL rod AMMO --------========########

Model {
State = "AMP1_1";
Scale = 0.25;
Md2 { File = "Items/Ammo/Rod/Phoenixammosm.md2";
Skin = "Items/Ammo/Rod/Phoenixammosm.pcx";
};
}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP1_2";}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP1_3";}

########========-------- HEFTY rod AMMO --------========########

Model {
State = "AMP2_1";
Scale = 0.25;
Md2 { File = "Items/Ammo/Rod/Phoenixammolg.md2";
Skin = "Items/Ammo/Rod/Phoenixammolg.pcx";
};
}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP2_2";}
Copy Model{ State = "AMP2_3";}


For the mace ammos, flipping the skins makes them look fine in g-max, rewritten these defs again, and same effect again.

Dani's suggestion, when done on the mace ammo had no effect either way
Does anyone have any more ideas?


Now a question regarding the maulataur
Which would look better modelled flames, or some form of particle based effect

[Slyrr]

Better ask Skyjake why this stuff is still looking weird for you - doesn't make any sense to me either....

[Jaquboss]

Now a question regarding the maulataur Which would look better modelled flames, or some form of particle based effect
I prefer particles , but they can look bad for fire...
You have done another maulator model or just rewrote deds for jheretic one??
(Maulator have bad model - looks diffirent)

[edorien]

rewritten ded's, but still working of a flame model the particle flame did look bad
See screenshot below

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/maul1.bmp

working on gargoyle projectile as well, (fully particle based)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/imp1.bmp
smoke trail?

[Slyrr]

It looks better than the fireball I modelled :)
Yes, definitely a smoke trail. The Imps in Jdoom have them, and they don't slow down my system. Go for it.

[edorien]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/imp4.bmp

edit
a bit to black at the moment.
doing something similar to dani's imp fireball may not be entirely sensible for such a small particle.

edit 2;
dani's imp-fireball fx adapted for gargoyle projecticle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/imp2.bmp

[Jaquboss]

Looks like some ... . .. particles?! Try textured particles for trail. Textured core will look bad.
But it´s much better than sprites or models
For Slyrr : Please make more hires models , look at jDoom soulspheere or megaspheere - it has just enought polys to look curved and don´t slow to much game.
There are not so many ammos so you can incrase polycount..
EDIT:I have played with some shinies and if you already have my shiny taxture (radial.png - distributed in some pk3´s above) try to write this to your combined mana ded
will look like sprite version (can´t post anything than text now due maintaince of freebwebs :-E)#========-------- COMBINED MANA --------========########

Model {
State = "MANA3_1";
Flags = "df_litshiny df_spin";
Scale = 1.3;
Offset = -5;
Md2 {
File = "Items/Mana/Combined/Combined.md2";
Shiny skin = "Common/radial.png";
Shiny = 0.5;
};
}

* Model { State = "MANA3_2"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_3"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_4"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_5"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_6"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_7"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_8"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_9"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_10"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_11"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_12"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_13"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_14"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_15"; }
* Model { State = "MANA3_16"; }

[edorien]

the second picture shown is what happens when you try to reproduce dani's imp-fireball fx on a much smaller "model", using an edited version of dani's code. (using his particle files)
(ie. ripped straight from his ded, and resized as a test, (resized else it looks like dani's fireball without the model, way to big)) This was purely to see how it might look it something similar was done on the model.

The tail on the first picture is way too dark, still working on it, (read creating appropriate textures for tail. Otherwise looks like a small round rocket,
i.e. not great)

Slyrr didn't make the mana models, like most of the items in hexen they have been ripped from hexen2.

[Slyrr]

Yep - almost all the hexen item/artifact models including the mana are pulled straight from Hexen2. Why tamper with perfection? :)

[edorien]

a question regarding gibs;
What are they for?
Heretic has no gibs
explode (disciple/ maulataur)
turn into piles of bandages, (mummy) (or stones if it is a golem)
leave only bloodstains and possibly 1 or 2 other parts, (gargoyle/ sabre-claw/ ophidian)
turn to dust leaving only their armour. (wight)
collapse into ? (liche)
burst into flame/ fall down (Corvus)

Edit:
Ok, Weredragon can be gibbed.
Are there the gib models for the hexen player characters and ettin?
(all other enemies have 2 or 3 different death animations, as opposed to 1 or 2 for doom :( )
Which other models are human bone and organs suitable for?
(A human skeleton appearing from a dragon, affrit, etc will look?)

On a side note;
There may be some degree of corruption in the rod/mace ammo md2 files/ or the skins. (Deep exploration crashes upon opening those files, while opening all other doomsday/ quake 2 models without problems)

[Slyrr]

Concerning the HERETIC monsters, I know that:
1) They have one death animations for when they die 'normally'.
2) A second death for "extra damage". (like when you use the elf wand to get them down to say, 1 life or so, then you hit them with a phoenix blast. They die an 'extreme damage' death, and that's when they use 'gibs'.

The Sabreclaws have no such death - they always 'disintigrate'.
The gargoyles have some weird routine (especially when their corpses are sliding down stairs) where they leave 'gibs' on each step. Neat, but probably a bear to code defs for a 3D version.
The liches would use the rocks, just scaled bigger
golems would use the rocks for their 'extreme' death (yes, they do have one. Use the wand to drop them down to nearly dead, then hit them hard. It's not that much difft. from the 'regular' deth, but it's there....

The internal organ gibs were meant to be an 'all purpose' thing - their shapes are vague enough that you can pass them off for most of the organic beasts - just scale them up and down depending on the size of the monster. There are also a couple of bloody blobs that were even more generic. Ideally, each monster will randomly spawn a couple of these when gibbed, and the panel alpha textured blood 'splat' can be set where they 'land' or something.

The skelatal remains of the organic gib were intentionally left headless and extremity-less so the body could be used for any monster (within reason).... Since it had taken this long just to get generic gibs installed, I figured that making custom gibbed bodies for each monster would take coders and def writers forever. (if I'm wrong on this, correct me ;)

In JDOOM, there's one generic blocky 'pile' of red chunks for every single monster. Nice, but no variety. I went the extra mile to make more and different items....

D'sparil and the Chaos Serpent have no gib deaths in Heretic.
The Disicple will need a special death model made for his collapsing robe and blue goop.

I can re-send the MD2 files I have (and the skins) for the mace/phoenix ammo. To whom do I upload it, and when.....?

[edorien]

Concerning the HERETIC monsters, I know that:
1) They have one death animations for when they die 'normally'.
2) A second death for "extra damage". (like when you use the elf wand to get them down to say, 1 life or so, then you hit them with a phoenix blast. They die an 'extreme damage' death, and that's when they use 'gibs'

Now, here's the problem.
In the orignial wad file, there is only a SINGLE death animation for each monster, ( except for Corvus (has 3; standard, gibbed, and flaming) and the were-dragon(has 2; standard and gibbed) )
{Look through the wad file, and see}


Since it had taken this long just to get generic gibs installed, I figured that making custom gibbed bodies for each monster would take coders and def writers forever.

For coders, it will be easier to implement custom deaths for each enemy, in this case

As opposed to, for ANY gibs ;
Creating the structures required in order to allow for multiple possible deaths ( and then repeating it for each enemy), then incorpatating the generic gibs into them.
Also would require another set of death animations for every model and a wad file containing sprites for these death animations until model versions were created.

ie Implementing some form of generic gibbing in the models, would be a lot of work for everyone.

More-so as it may require significant changes to the engine *shocked*
Multiple randomly generated models are one thing.....
Creating whole new wads, more death animations, extensive tweaking ofweapons and monster files, and then writing deds for the new animations/gibs ... is quite another.


Regarding the rod/mace ammo, it's probably best to email them here:
Robin_hartley_151@hotmail.com


Edit:
Smoke trails for the gargoyle projectile
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/imp5.bmp
(still working on tail)

[Slyrr]

All I know is when a gargoyle suffers an extreme death, there's clearly an animation where it's entire body splits open. This does not happen every time it dies.

But I guess I'm not really sure what you're having trouble with. If, as you say, only Corvus and the weredragon have gibs, then you already have everything you need and then some.

Just use the organic gib body for the weredragon
Use the rock gibs for the Liche (since you say the GOLEMS have no gibs)
Use the red generic blob gibs for the gargoyles.

I wasn't concerned with Corvus' gibs since I didn't make the corvus models.
According to your own search of the WAD files, you don't need anything else. You already have all you need and more. The internal organ gibs are just decoration gravy you can add as particles to be thrown out randomly with any gibbed death (in a limited fashion of course).

Doesn't sound complicated to me........

Slyrr

[edorien]

And I may have found the problem with the rod/mace ammo models.

edit;
There are no detectabe skins when loading the md2 file, has it been connected?

edit2;
Encountering same problems with gib skins.

[Slyrr]

did the zip file I sent work out for you?

[edorien]

There are no detectabe skins when loading the md2 file
Any idea how to connect them
everything in the zip worked except the rod/mace ammo.

[Slyrr]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'no detectable skins'. Do you mean that the skin file for the model was not included?
If they were, I don't know why they wouldn't connect. There is only one thing, if you can call it a glitch. When I make the skin as a PSD file, I usually name it "maceammolg" or something. Then sometimes when I condense it to BMP format, I'll change it to "maceammolgSKIN". It may be yer md2s are looking for the old name perhaps. Outside of that, I can't think of any reason why they aren't 'connecting' whatever that means....
If you mean 'apply' the skin to the model, you can do that in QVIEW or any number of other md2 model viewers. after opening the model, open the skin of your choice.

[edorien]

There are no detectabe skins when loading the md2 file
thinking of a different engine / model format (ie nevermind)


Then sometimes when I condense it to BMP format, I'll change it to "maceammolgSKIN"

Ok I changed it back to maceammolg, etc and there was an improvement upon how they look previously.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/whitey.bmp now (phoenixammosm)

http://tinypic.com/206yh then (phoenixammsmSKIN)

Now all are entirely white and unaffected by lighting.

[Slyrr]

The model pictured isn't the MACE ammo, but the PHOENIX ammo large model....
Is there any way you can find out exactly what skin that model is linking to? It looks like one of the MONSTER or other artifact skins, but I can't tell which one. It almost looks like one of the JHEXEN skins.

There seems to be a mis-understanding as to which model is which. The piled orbs are the mace ammo, the melted spheres are the phoenix ammo.

Until we find out what skin that is in your screenshot, we may not be able to fix this. That object (the phoenix ammo LARGE model) should be linked to the PhoenixAMMOLG skin, but it isn't.....

Slyrr

[edorien]

I gathered that was a phoenix ammo model. I switch the skin name with all of them and chose to show that model because it is lit by default, where-as the mace-ammo models have no default lighting.
I probably should of made it clearer or posted shots of each (having renamed the skins all models appear as those white shapes)

As to the possibility that it may be linking to another skin/ high-res texture/patch
I create a new installed of doomsday, and added only that model, same effect both ways

[Slyrr]

I think you should ask Skyjake for help on this one. He never had any troubles linking any skins to any models I made....

[edorien]

already have, no response so far

[Jaquboss]

All is okay just need to write pctx effects , can be three flames done be adding one flame to each frame?Eg 1st frame - left flame , 2nd frame middle flame ...
Just you will need to bit redone skin. You will have to flip them.

[edorien]

Just you will need to bit redone skin. You will have to flip them.

pctx effects ???
pcx effects or particle effects?

3 particle generators can be put on a single model by using the command Center to locate the spawn location of the generator with respect to the model's center, however with different coloured over-lapping flames/particles(any type) only the flame with the highest RGB value will be displayed.

eg
Generator {
State = "MNTRFXI1_1";
Flags = blend | extra;
Center { -5 0 0 }; ## left flame
Speed = 2;
Spawn age = 4;
Max age = 50;
Particles = 20;
Spawn rate = 5;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Tics = 6;
Radius = 2.5 ;
Bounce = 0;
Resistance = .01;
Color { 1 0 0.8 1 };
};
Generator {
State = "MNTRFXI1_1";
Flags = blend | extra;
Center { 0 0 0 }; ##center flame
Speed = 2;
Spawn age = 4;
Max age = 50;
Particles = 20;
Spawn rate = 5;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Tics = 6;
Radius = 2.5 ;
Bounce = 0;
Resistance = .01;
Color { 1 0 0.8 1 };
};
Generator {
State = "MNTRFXI1_1";
Flags = blend | extra;
Center { 5 0 0 }; ##right flame
Speed = 2;
Spawn age = 4;
Max age = 50;
Particles = 20;
Spawn rate = 5;
Stage {
Type = "pt_point";
Flags = "ptf_bright";
Tics = 6;
Radius = 2.5 ;
Bounce = 0;
Resistance = .01;
Color { 1 0 0.8 1 };
};

}

[Slyrr]

Woah - I don't think making the flames on the phoenix ammo complicated is necessary - just simple yellow (or orange) particles would be fine. There will be lots of these things lying around on some levels, and you don't want to make them too fancy.....

[Weenuk]

You can use gmax to model, export to md3, then use milkshape to convert to md2. That exporter must be for a full version of MAX, but at least you can import stuff still.

(a little late I guess, but better then never)

[edorien]

that is the least amount of work required to create the three flames (entirely yellow) for the larger phoenix ammo, using the simplest possible flame.

Adding a second colour (darker/closer to original flame) requires only an extra 4 lines per flame

[Jaquboss]

I forgot extra heh :-D
Edit:Edorien can you look at this ?this (http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/H-Item-RodAmmo.pk3) is rod ammo with proper skins and flames and this (http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/H-Item-StaffAmmo.pk3) is a bit modifed staff rune , please try that. Second is only an alternative..

[Slyrr]

Does this mean the skins were fixed somehow.....?

[edorien]

I'm not sure how you did it, but well done, they work :)

er.. might be an idea, do reduce shiny on staff model though, (at present completely hides skin detail). Nice light-map though

[Jaquboss]

Ok if you look on skins on your modeling program and at skins themselfs you will see that they aren´t well sitting :-)
I did full shiny because skin is totaly diffirent to sprite. I will like to add spin to skullstaff ammo but i fear that without rotating lightmap it will look bad. I also can´t add spin to phoenix ammo because i used some tricks to get writing particle position easier.

[Kresjah]

I can see through the pages that you people have been working hard on the models. I'd love to get a peek of them, but to be honest, it ain't exactly tempting to go through each and every post and download each file, and then replacing those with the updated ones later in the thread and so on.

So basicly, my question is as follows: Would any of you guys who are working on this mind packing it all up in a small "alpha"/"beta" so that I could see visually how the progress on the models are going? I'd be glad to give you some constructive feedback if I'd get my hands on it.

[edorien]

jaquboss / slyrr (or anyone else) would you be able to upload such a pack if one was emailed to you?


Summary of models/deds through thread;
For heretic,
liche-star... liche-tornado... golem-skull...volcano rocks/explosion... mace-orbs (deds by me)
mace ammo(large mace skin needs work) ... staff ammo...rod ammo...shadowsphere (deds by jaquboss)
(Models by Slyrr)
Player-model displays weapons

arrows...claw ripper....Hud-gauntlets(needs better skin) (all by Jaquboss)

additional stuff,
maulataur / imp projectiles (me) (rather tempamental at present)

alternative models.
golem-skull (Jaquboss, more detailed, lacks animation)
Morph Ovum (Jaquboss , green burning egg)
crossbow (cain's one slightly better quality)
wall-torch
tome of power

For Hexen (all by Jaquboss)
Mace (good quality)
all other cleric weapons, first 3 mage weapons, hammer ()
Some weapon models
affritt / bishop (reskinned gargoyle/disciple)

[doomer]

I can see through the pages that you people have been working hard on the models. I'd love to get a peek of them, but to be honest, it ain't exactly tempting to go through each and every post and download each file, and then replacing those with the updated ones later in the thread and so on.

So basicly, my question is as follows: Would any of you guys who are working on this mind packing it all up in a small "alpha"/"beta" so that I could see visually how the progress on the models are going? I'd be glad to give you some constructive feedback if I'd get my hands on it.


Great idea - an alpha with working models only would be great - i have been through the thread and downloaded some of the models but it is very confusing which is for heretic or hexen and what works and doesn't. 1 pk3 for each game would be a good help.

[KuriKai]

i should be able to host the file depending on their size

[Kresjah]

Doomer: Exactly, not to mention the fact that this thread contains several versions of the same items, and then you have to figure out which are alternatives, which are the updated and so on.

So, having it as a public alpha pack makes it easy for people to download and therefore also a more tempting download, and the more people that uses and tests it, the more valuable feedback (suggestions for improvement, bug reporting and so on) you will get.

Hope to see that pack available as a small alpha release soon. :)

[Master Toddy]

I'm looking forward to your pack. I've been dying for some new Heretic/Hexen content for MONTHS.

[edorien]

edited;
see below

Entirely Particle-based(any-type) projectiles no longer appear viable. (Generator limit being reached way too early on levels with lots of phoenix ammo / torches ...most levels

[Kresjah]

If they are all that small, then I can temporarily host those files. If they don't hit the jHQL first, then just PM me, and I'll throw them up until someone has a proper host for the files.

[edorien]

Ok here the files are, each zip conains a no. of pk3s



Main Heretic files
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/heretic%20files.zip

Hexen files (only mace reasonable quality)
see below

Alternative Heretic models
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/alternative-heretic.zip

Use of Maulataur /Gargoyle deds is not reccomended with phoenix rod ammo, or alternate wall-torch (due to generator limit)

If links lead back to forum do save target as...



Contents

heretic,
liche-star... liche-tornado... golem-skull...volcano rocks/explosion... mace-orbs (deds by me)
mace ammo(small mace skin needs work) ... staff ammo...rod ammo...shadowsphere (deds by jaquboss)
(Models by Slyrr)
Player-model displays weapons
arrows...claw ripper.... (all by Jaquboss)


Alternatives
maulataur / imp(gargoyle) projectiles (me) (rather tempamental at present.)
alternative models.
Hud-gauntlets(needs better skin)
golem-skull (Jaquboss, more detailed, lacks animation)
Morph Ovum (Jaquboss , green burning egg)
crossbow (cain's one slightly better quality, than this one)
wall-torch
tome of power



Hexen (all by Jaquboss)
Mace (good quality)
all other cleric weapons, first 3 mage weapons, hammer ()
Some weapon models
affritt / bishop (reskinned gargoyle/disciple)

[Vermil]

Though I'm not a modeller, hence I don't really have the right to...would you mind if I give some constructive criticism and bug report(s) on what "I" (The "I" being important because obvisously it's only my humble opinion) think looks good and what prehaps could be improved on some of the models? If you allow me to, I could PM it instead of posting it here if you wish.

BTW the HeXen zip seems unopenable. It asks for the next volume ("hexen files.z01")

[Kresjah]

I haven't checked out the files yet, but I've decided that since the files are as small as they are, I'll throw up a mirror. I'll be supplying the link soon.

I also took the liberty of renaming the ZIP files and put a release number on them (Alpha Build 1). I did this to make it easier for people that download them to judge if one of your packs somewhere else is the same version or not. Of course, if you of any reason don't like the change of names and want me to change it back, I'll do it as soon as possible.

Also tried to clean up the credits list on the mirror. It contains some error. If you have two extra minutes, tell me what's wrong and I'll correct it.

Looking forward to try the packs. :)

EDIT:
The mirror is up and running. I'm supplying you with two links for it (full link and shortened .tk link)

Mirror (full link) (http://home.no/fragagib/jhxmodel/)
Mirror (short link) (http://www.jhxmodel.tk/)

And vermil is correct in his statement. The Hexen pack does ask for the next part of the archive.

[edorien]

it posted same message twice.

[edorien]

constructive criticism is always welcome.

All alternate heretic models by jaquboss
Gargoyle / Maulataur projectiles entirely particle based (no model) by me
Hexen affritt / bishop models are merely reskinned versions of heretic models (skin/deds by jaquboss, models by whoever made them originally)
Name's Edorien

edit
hexen-archive corrupted, below are seperate links to files
this is not ideal, I know but its the best that can be done

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-mace-fixed.zip (good quality)
http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/2xactors.zip (reasonable quality ignoring flames)

http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/x-wandandcone.zip
http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/weapons.zip (try them if you like but... dont say you weren't warned)
http://www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/hudweapons.zip

Aside from the mace (ignoring swimming vertexs) the hexen models aren't great.

[Kresjah]

There, it's updated.

I re-zipped the Hexen pack so that it now is a single ZIP at somewhere around 1.7 meg. I've fixed the errors regarding the credits. Sorry about the typo in your name. You know, writing it incorrect once, then copy and paste... copy and paste is a dangerous function :p

I'm also still unsure of what the "contents" of "Some weapon models" for the Hexen pack is.

I'll be testing the pack in an hour or so. Have to do some other stuff here. *Wants to test NOW! ... ahg! :p*

EDIT:
Doh, you edited while I was replying. I'll fix the Hexen pack again in an hour or so (just before I test the pack).

[Vermil]

I can try hosting the whole zip. Though it will be on a geocities account. I'll Pm you my email. If you accept send me the zip and I'll put it up.

EDIT: I see you've got uploading sorted whilst I was typing. Hence the above can be ignored.

A bug report/opinion on the models in Hereticfiles.zip. I'll have a look at the others in the near future.

Bugs:

1. The skins for the Hellstaff ammo and Ripper missile seem completely messed up. *

EDIT: It's that problem with shiny skins some people myself included have. Looks like I'm going to have to edit the deds every release. Still no biggie.

2. The texture on the Lich Tornado seems to be applied in an incorrect location. *

3. The Lich blue star projectile seems offset to high.

4. The Large rocks from the volcano shrink and enlarge (from disappear to pretty large).

5. The Fire Mace projectiles flip between two skins.

6. The bottom of the shadow orb goes into the floor as it bobs.

7. The Nitro Golem skull doesn't track. A state definition error?

8. The rod ammo picup flames are square suggesting missing particle textures?

9. The small rod ammo pickup flickers between full bright and not.

Opinion:

1. The light map for the Hell staff ammo seems a tad large especially for the small one. Perhaps a different sized one for both the small and large ammo types instead of one shared? *

EDIT: Now I can see it properly, IMO I'd say the back of the Hellstaff runes look a little plain compared to the front.

2. The Volcano and rocks it shots out perhaps stand out a little too much. Perhaps the skin colours could be made more similar Heretic’s “LAVA1” texture and lava flats respectively. Also the particle explosion for the large rock perhaps could be set at a lower height so that perhaps only the top half of it is visible. Currently it looks like it's exploding before it hits the floor.

3. The skin on the Fire mace shots could be a little darker like the hud weapon.

4. The Lich blue star and Ripper projectiles seem a little large and perhaps obstruct too much of the players view.

5. The size of the Nitro Golem skull projectile could make it a little difficult to see in the heat of battle. *

* Pics of the marked things above: Pics (http://www.geocities.com/the_shinjo2002/pics.JPG)

[Vermil]

And the Heretic alternate models zip. I won’t comment on the HeXen models because you say they aren’t complete yet.

Bugs:

1. The metal parts of the crossbow go white when shiny skins are off.

2. I'm guessing that there is suppose to be a particle flame texture for the Nitro Golem skull projectile and wall torch models?

3. Not really a bug, but there is no Hud Gauntlet or Morph Ovum models in the zip. Though there are duplicates of the crossbow arrows and Ripper missiles.

Opinion:

Remember these are only my opinion.

1. IMO I think the non-tilted Nitro Golem skull projectile suits better. After all it is suppose to be a biting skull rather than a head butting one :p.

2. The alternative Tome model looks a little flat and perhaps a little cartoon like compared to the other models?

[Slyrr]

Looking at the pic posted, the Liche Tornado needs not just a skin fix, but something else:

It's supposed to be semi-transparent, and there should be cloud at the base like a real tornado would have (particles...?)

Slyrr

[KuriKai]

ok you guys will want to include a txt into the packs.
ive done it for the ones im uploading to jhql and jxql.
and i made it a pk3 instead of a zip

edit: and does it replae the ones found on doomsdayhq?

[edorien]

4. The Large rocks from the volcano shrink and enlarge (from disappear to pretty large).
Can you give a bit more detail please? (Random sizes when spawining or changing size through trajectory.)

Also the particle explosion for the large rock perhaps could be set at a lower height so that perhaps only the top half of it is visible. Currently it looks like it's exploding before it hits the floor
I tried that orignally, but in the sprites the explosion activates before it hits the ground so the only way of doing this is to offset the large rock model to made it appear to hit the ground, and then move the explosion down.
However doing so leaves the damage trigger higher than the model, so the player could jump over the model entirely and into the invisible trigger, or walk straight through the model and take no damage.This unfortunately prevents that being done (especially as this model/ded can be also used in hexen)

FIXED
1. The skins for the Hellstaff ammo and Ripper missile seem completely messed up. *
(wrong ded files included, jaquboss originals, rather than edited)
2. The texture on the Lich Tornado seems to be applied in an incorrect location. *
(skin needed flipping)
3. The Lich blue star projectile seems offset to high.
5. The Fire Mace projectiles flip between two skins. (shiny skin issue)
6. The bottom of the shadow orb goes into the floor as it bobs.

8. The rod ammo picup flames are square suggesting missing particle textures?
Yes

9. The small rod ammo pickup flickers between full bright and not
Model {
flags = "df_dim"; ##flag on
}
*model {flags = "df_dim"; State = "AMP1_2"; } ##toggles flag off
*model {flags = "df_dim"; State = "AMP1_3"; } ##toggles flag on again


File below gauntlets/ovum/rod-ammo/ h-filesupdated (includes fixed liche-projectiles/mummy-projectiles/particle textures/staff-ammo/ claw-ripper)


http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/updated.zip

Particle cloud FOR tornado base can be done,
BUT on most levels we are EXTREMELY close to the generator limit :(
especially, now that the rod-ammos are finished


3 generators/rod ammo
1 generator/serpent candle
2 generators/brazier
1/nitro-golem, 2 more for skull
2/ wight, 2 more for explosions
5/ophidian-projectile

4/volcano , 1 more for eventual smoke trail - also effects all were-dragon projectiles

3 for gargoyle projectiles (2-projectile, 1-explosion)
5 for all maulataur fx (2 -firebolt, 2-explosion, 1- firestream)

96? Generators max (all turn off at above this)(has this no. changed)

Thats 3 generators for each large phoenix orb on a level at a given moment, etc...
So the no. of generators available on most is fairly low.

Edit
The alternate models
ovum/gauntlets added
white is very, very light grey. (will darken eventually)
I think the non-tilted Nitro Golem skull projectile suits better. After all it is suppose to be a biting skull rather than a head butting one
That's why it's not in the main pack. *wacky*
Flame textures included in update.


Same link as above (added again due to long post)
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/updated.zip

[Vermil]

Can you give a bit more detail please? (Random sizes when spawining or changing size through trajectory.)

Sure. It changes size as it moves.

Comments based on updated Heretic models:

FIXED
1. The skins for the Hellstaff ammo and Ripper missile seem completely messed up. *
(wrong ded files included, jaquboss originals, rather than edited)

The ripper missile looks the same as it did before. Was it a mistake on my behalf thinking it was suppose to look different?

2. The texture on the Lich Tornado seems to be applied in an incorrect location. *
(skin needed flipping)

Another small bug unfortunately. Vaguely similar to the volcano rocks bug, the tornado changes horizontal size for an instance during its animation.

5. The Fire Mace projectiles flip between two skins. (shiny skin issue)

The mace spheres remind me a bit of white golf balls (skin colour) now. heh.

Perhaps it would be a better skin for the Morph Ovum, which IMO is perhaps a little too white and large?

[Kresjah]

Which of the models.ded files in the main and alternate Heretic packs is the newest?

[edorien]

# jHeretic: Models

Include "Models\*.ded";

# This can be removed if jHeretic.ded sets the default path.
ModelPath "Data\jHeretic\Models";


Contents of models.ded
jheretic.ded sets default path.
models.ded obselete file.
So doesn't matter as It isn't used at all, unless you are running an old version of doomsday.

EDIT;
Volcano-ball/ Mace-Orbs/ Ripper probably need a reskin

Having trouble reproducing shrinking volcano-balls, what level/configuration?

Liche-Tornado / Liche-Star horizontal Scaling gone, arising due to tidying of code, will correct in time

Golem-Skull tracking -- Is it only the skull? or has tracking gone completely

[Vermil]

Having trouble reproducing shrinking volcano-balls, what level/configuration?

I don't think it's related, but I'll put up my Jheretic.cfg shortly.

Edit: here it is: link removed because of below...

Edit2: Figured it out!

The problem I was having with the volcano balls was caused by something in a pwad I've had running when I've been looking at your models. Without said pwad loaded, the Volcano balls display correctly.

The pwad contained aload of textures and a few replacement sprite graphics for a some other scenary objects.

Turns out the problem was caused by the afore mentioned replacement sprite graphics in the pwad. When I took them out, the volcano ball models displayed fine with the pwad loaded. Tis very strange that they were affecting models.

Anyway sorry for wasting your time over something that is my fault.

EDIT3: And here is the offending wad if you wish to have it.

EDIT4: See below post for link.

Golem-Skull tracking -- Is it only the skull? or has tracking gone completely

Yep the projectiles tracking is gone completely. I've had a look in the Golem Skull model ded. It's missing the state "MUMMYFX1_4" and none of the states have the action "A_MummyFX1Seek" attached to them. The later being why the projectile isn't tracking. In objects.ded it's attached to the states MUMMYFX1_2 + MUMMYFX1_4.

[edorien]

More fixes;
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/h-filesupdated.pk3


Includes,
particle-fx on liche-tornado (may be issues on e2m8, and e4m1)
horizontal scaling issues on tornado / star fixed
golem-skull tracking restored
hellstaff lightmaps tweaked to match ammo-sizes / transpancy added to ammo.
ripper reduced in size, (should be silver-grey small spiked orb)
liche-star size reduced.
volcano-rocks (small) explosion tweaked.
tidied code.

[Vermil]

After uploading the incorrect wad twice for the above (sorry). Here it is.

Wad (http://www.geocities.com/the_shinjo2002/HTexture.zip)

[edorien]

wrong thread?

[Vermil]

Nope. Read my post above your previous one ;). Sorry for the messy posting.

[edorien]

Yes that does it.

The onlys sprite replacements in that pack are for hexen.
The textures in are relacements for textures across all the games.

Possibly the wad contains extra information for the second state of the model. (VOLCANOBALL2) which is overiding the info in the ded and the skringing you are seeing is a result of the model scaling to the new size (likely scale = 0)

[Ton80]

In Doomsday.out non-verbose for Hexen I'm getting this:

R_InitModels: Initializing MD2 models.
R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'FIRED_ICE'.
R_InitModels: Done in 0.27 seconds.


All that is listed in Hexen's objects.ded are these

State {
ID = "FIRED_ICE1";
Sprite = "FDMN";
Frame = 17;
Tics = 5;
Action = "A_FreezeDeath";
Next state = "FIRED_ICE2";
}

State {
ID = "FIRED_ICE2";
Sprite = "FDMN";
Frame = 17;
Tics = 1;
Action = "A_FreezeDeathChunks";
Next state = "FIRED_ICE2";
}


And affrit.ded has this:

Model {
State = "FIRED_ICE";
Sub {
Flags = "df_specular";
File="Actors/fired/fired.md2";
Skin file = "Actors/fired/fired_ice.png";
Frame="pain01";
Shiny = 0.6;
Shiny skin = "Common/shiny.pcx";
Shiny color = {0.5 0.5 0.8 } ;
};

Sub {
Flags = "df_specular";
File="Actors/fired/fired.md2";
Frame="Icy";
Transparent = 0.6;
Shiny = 0.06;
Shiny skin = "Actors/Ettin/icy_shin.pcx";
Shiny color = {0.5 0.5 0.8 } ;
};
}


Just letting ya know.

[edorien]

er... it's probably better this way for now, however it you want to see the frozen skin just change

Model {
State = "FIRED_ICE";
to
Model {
State = "FIRED_ICE1";

[Slyrr]

OK - Skyjake replied to my email, and said that he has a WIKI page up to deal with some of the model issues we've already discussed. The link is HERE:

http://deng.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/view/Resources/ModelTroubleshooting

It discusses the upside-down skins (which I'll have to deal with on my end from now on, as it would be easiest)
The 'missing' or white skin issue
and the 'inside-out' models (which I'll deal with when I make new ones from now on out, but which you guys can probably deal with on your end with the pre-existing models)

Hope this can help with some of the issues that my ammo models have been having.....

BTW - will you eventually complile all the new heretic model material together with the other model pack materials into a PK3 file or something?

Having all the heretic models together in one file would be VERY much appreciated by the end users I think - few things are more irritating than having to download a bazillion different files.........

PS - what directory to you put the new models PK3 into - and does it need an accompanying DED file or will it work all by itself?

[edorien]

BTW - will you eventually complile all the new heretic model material together with the other model pack materials into a PK3 file or something?

What directory to you put the new models PK3 into - and does it need an accompanying DED file or will it work all by itself?

Answer to second question, data/jheretic/auto for heretic files (ded inside pk3)
for hexen files data/jhexen/auto.

Regarding adding new material to the jhrp, Skyjake has stated he would like to complie the official heretic/hexen model packs himself,
See
http://deng.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/view/Resources/HowToCreateModelPack
dated 24 Aug 2004


Edit;
Compilation of all good-quality heretic-files
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/H-filesbuild.zip

Includes
Mace/Staff/Rod ammos....shadowsphere....liche/golem projectiles...volcano-rocks...mace-orbs...phx-bird...arrow...ripper
Should be bug-free.


Compilation of all good-quality hexen-files;
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/X-filesbuild.ace
(ace file due to upload limit on freeweb)

Includes
World-Weapon models (Axe,Hammer,Quitus Part1, Wraithverge (all), Serpent Staff, Frost Shards, Arc of Death), HUD-mace, edited bracers, dark servant, wings of wrath.
(Also incudes unskinned Quitus part 2&3.)

[Ton80]

On your latest heretic file I get these:

Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'blend'.
Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag '|'.
Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'modelonly'.
Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag '|'.
Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'srcdir'.
DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Golem-Skull.ded

Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'gnf_dietouch'.
DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Phx-Bird.ded

Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'df_spawn'.
Def_GetFlagValue: Undefined flag 'df_spawn'.
DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Volcano-Rocks.ded

R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'MACEFX4_2'.
R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'MACEFX4_2'.
SkinTex: data\jheretic\models\projectiles\maceorbs\Mace-Orb.pcx => 4


On the golem-skull.ded the quotation marks are causing the problem there.
Generator {
State = "MUMMYFX1_1";
Flags = "blend | modelonly | srcdir";

The other ded stuff: I don't know. *book* then *confused* then :(

the macefx stuff: We only have defined in Objects.ded:

State {
ID = "MACEFX4_1";
Sprite = "FX02";
Frame = 4;
Tics = 99;
Next state = "MACEFX4_1";
}

State {
ID = "MACEFXI4_1";
Sprite = "FX02";
Frame = 32770;
Tics = 4;
Action = "A_DeathBallImpact";
Next state = "MACEFXI1_2";
}

Just letting ya'll know.

[edorien]

DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Golem-Skull.ded
Quotation marks (left over from v5 to v6 change)

DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Phx-Bird.ded
DED done: Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles\Volcano-Rocks.ded
Redundant code (can be deleted, left over from v5 ded (Soultion ;delete spawn / dietouch flags)

R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'MACEFX4_2'.
Old state from earlier objects.ded, lines with this state may be deleted

Will update pack eventually

[Ton80]

Thank you. Most appreciated.

Edit:
Found this on the above Hexen compilation file; unsure what's causing it.
SkinTex: data\jhexen\models\weapons\quitus1.pcx => 4
firestorm.pcx (#0) not found.
firestorm.pcx (#0) not found.
SkinTex: data\jhexen\models\weapons\hammer.png => 5

[Slyrr]

Looking at the Nitrogolem flying flaming skull attack I can see what was meant when someone said it 'looks like pac man'.
I made that skull and it's skin with one idea in mind - that it should be very low poly and low detail since there would almost certainly be a LOT of them flying around whenever nitrogolems are present. I was worried that older systems wouldn't be able to deal with a glut of nice looking skulls without suffering a noticeable FPS hit.
But my system runs with lots of skulls flying around and I don't seem to get an FPS drop.

So how about it people - I feel the need to make a better looking skull attack for the nitrogolem. Feelings on the subject? I'd like to revamp it and make it look more like a REAL skull.

Do you think it's needed or no? I'll get started irregardless, unless you all respond with posts that say 'it's fine' or something....

Any thoughts on the other models I've worked on for the ammo/items...?

[edorien]

'looks like pac man'.

Thatwas me, the low-poly model isn't that bad, the comment was aimed at the skin particularly, the bright yellow, and the purely black mouth/eye-holes, (A bit more variation in the skin (it's supposed to be on fire) and slightly darker.

Any thoughts on the other models I've worked on for the ammo/items...?

Are the Volcano-Projectiles meant to be lava, as opposed to rocks


Are you
Found this on the Hexen file; unsure what's causing it.
firestorm.pcx (#0) not found.
firestorm.pcx (#0) not found.
er... missing skin *guilty* (for quitus prt 2 & 3) (didn't realise Jaquboss used the same skin for the 2 other quitus parts and the cleric firestorm model)



SkinTex: data\jhexen\models\weapons\quitus1.pcx => 4
Are you using a Case-sensitive file-system?
If so it'll be caused by incorrect naming of models, (Quitus as opposed to quitus,,, etc)
If not are the skins displaying in-game?

Will upload fixed versions of both later today

[Ton80]

I just quoted above and below those two to give ya approximately where it was happening.

BTW is this linked file valid anymore? Do we need it along with the above compilation?

http://ddayql.d-nation.org/jxql/HexenModelyard_A2.pk3

Reason is that one of the cleric's HUD weapons has some problems.

[Kresjah]

Hmm, I can see that it has been some days since my last proper visit here. Been more or less off the computer completely these days. My GFs been here for 12 days, and traveled home the day before yesterday. You know, when you're GF lives a 10 hours drive apart from you (and since none of us have the driving license or car, we have to rely on trains), then one has a tendency of forgetting everything else those days :p

What are the last updates actually?

EDIT: No need to answer that question.

Kresjah's mirror for alphas from jHexen/jHeretic Modelyard (http://www.jhxmodel.tk) has been updated with the latest main Heretic and Hexen packs. I'll try to include the Korax pack later today.

[edorien]

http://ddayql.d-nation.org/jxql/HexenModelyard_A2.pk3
This file contains everything hexen-related as available seperately on this thread (regardless of quality, or completion)

http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/X-filesbuild.ace
This file contains only the good quality items. (with some fixes, and 2 additional models)


Still tweaking lower-quality models for hexen (hence why there not in the later pack)
Believe Jaquboss is working on improving the HUD models.

Isn't that the 4th cleric weapon? with an overly shiny skin (Shiny = 1;)
Bad Animations and skin-issues like these are the reason the majority of hud weapons aren't in the updated
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/X-filesbuild.ace

[Ton80]

It's the wraithverge as I found out after posting.

[KuriKai]

yeah so give me a buzz when you got an updated vesion of the modelyard packs
and ill update the site with them.
make sure to include readme/credit files in them

[edorien]

The original pack of hexen (and the modelyard.pk3) contain the most up-to-date versions of the models at the time they were released, regardless of the quality of the models, all the seperate zips were combined into one file for ease of download. (Hence why it contains the original files for some models

The problem with the wraithverge is due to a bad skin and an excessive use of the shine command to hide it.

A suggestion remove the original build are replace it with
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/X-filesbuild.ace (it only has the HUD-Mace at present, but doesn't contain any of the not-so-good models, which will be re-added once they have been "modified" sufficiently

[KuriKai]

what about the ones on Kresjah's site?
shouldnt the x-filesbuild become the modelyard pack then? if its gonna be the main pack
how bout asking if you can use some of cains stuff in the pack too.

[edorien]

kresjah was sent the most recent release about an hour ago.
it probably should although there are still a few issues with the present models
Has any-one seen Cain recently? His sites not been updated since march, and he's not been on these forums since april.

edit:
Note these packs are in addition to the main resource pack.
I will

[KuriKai]

ijust updated with the new ones on his site
when u send him the most recent releases can u send them to me too?

[Kresjah]

It seems that when using the newest Heretic files from here, the claw orbs (ammo) seem to disappear. The glow remains, but the sprite disappears. Is there anything I've missed out on, or is this an error from your pack?

Otherwise, this is the following constructive critisism I've noted from what I've been seeing in your pack (only tested Heretic as of yet). Please note that even though the critisism, I still think your work is good. It's just me being picky (as always) :p

* The pheonix "missile" and golem skull skins could do with some small changes. Not much, the look good already, but I'd like to see a bit less "one-coloured". Some variation like either a very, very, VERY little shinyness on them, or some darker areas.

* When the large mace orbs (powered with tome) hits the wall, in it's "death" animations (explosion), you see it revert to the sprite orb for a second before it explodes (my best guess is that this is due to the sprite orb probably being in the first frame of the original death animation , and you haven't made a death anim yet... am I right?)

* There is something about the shadowsphere that makes it seem a incy-wincy, little bit 2D. No, I am not referring to the fact that it always faces the player (I know about this, and I know why it has been done). It might need some darkening on the edges of the face (in the skin), or making the model more extruded.

That is what I can remember so far. I might seem a bit picky (and I know I am), but I still think the models are more than worthy as replacements already. Keep up the good work. I'll check the hexen ones later :)

[edorien]

It seems that when using the newest Heretic files from here, the claw orbs (ammo) seem to disappear. The glow remains, but the sprite disappears. Is there anything I've missed out on, or is this an error from your pack?


Try downloading 3d claw-ammo from
ftp://server1.thefourwinds.net/jheretic/models/mod-clawammo.pk3
and the aug-2004 release of the jhrp from
ftp://server1.thefourwinds.net/jheretic/models/jhrp.zip

There is no mention of the clawammo state/sprite in any of the deds, i'll look into it, when i can

[Kresjah]

I am unable to download the jHRP. The FTP server doesn't allow anonymous connections. I thought I had jHRP august 2004 release, but I'll figure that out as soon as I find a way to get that jHRP down. I'll add the claw ammo alongside the jHRP I already have, and see if it works. Just have to fix some other things on my computer first.

EDIT: And of course, can't get the 3d claw ammo down either due to the FTP servers restrictions.

[Ton80]

Originally Posted by Kresjah
It seems that when using the newest Heretic files from here, the claw orbs (ammo) seem to disappear. The glow remains, but the sprite disappears. Is there anything I've missed out on, or is this an error from your pack?

Same error goes for me also.


Edit :
I found out why.
weapons.ded got somehow included in the Defs\jHeretic\Models\Projectiles. It's an old one (old MD2 model path).
That's causing the claw errors.

[Kresjah]

edorien said to me on MSN that you can access the files through Doomsday HQ. Just go to the Doomsday HQ, and then 3D-models for Heretic. Choose jHRP as multiple ZIPS to get the clawammo...

[Ton80]

READ my last post edit please.

[Kresjah]

I did read your last post, but my last post was written before you edited your post. Anyways, I'll look into it and upload an second release of this version of the modelpack that does nothing else than fix this problem.

EDIT: jHXModel.tk (http://www.jhxmodel.tk) has been updated. Alpha v3a of the Main Heretic Files compilation is now online, fixing the claw orb error.

EDIT 2: Think I'm a bit tired today. Ton80, read your post three times, and misread it all the time. Thought you said that it was the FTP you didn't get access to. Sorry! :\

[Ton80]

I only posted my last because some don't catch the edits including me at times. Sorry if I offended, didn't intend it.

[Kresjah]

None taken. :)

Regarding edit, I have come to the conclusion that the best way to solve issues where people don't check for edits is to edit only if no one has posted after you. If someone has posted after you, the possibility of people reading edits sink drastically, so it's better to post it as a new post then. But of course, that's only my opinion. :)

Anyways, back on topic... another picky-picky from my side. This is a personal taste-issue, but I feel that the skull on the wings of wrath should have been a bit smaller length-wise. Now it seems a bit wider than I can remember the original-one being.

[edorien]

Thanks for finding that, must of happened when I created the pk3 *owell* earlier this morning.

Regarding the wings, the whole model (in both), is significantly larger than the original sprite. (Hence why the skull seems bigger.


In Heretic
Wings of wrath (scaled to match size of sprite, left. Current scale, on right)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/1.bmp http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/2.bmp

Picture on left slightly further away. *squint*
But you see the different (Current scale ; about 2.5 times larger than original sprite (Hence Skull 2.5 times wider)


Link below contains Jaquboss's crossbow and other stuff in seperate pk3s
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/alternative-heretic.zip

[Kresjah]

Ahh, so it wasn't just my eyes being completely off. Heh, those pictures made me realize that it was even bigger than I thought. Just by counting the number of squares on the wall in the background you can see that it is almost three times bigger or something like that. Is this a temporary size you will fix later on, or is this going to be the final size?

EDIT: Is that alternate zip the same as on my site, or are there any newer updates to it?

EDIT 2: I compared the files myself and found them to be the same. Never mind :)

[edorien]

about 2.5 times larger than original sprite (Hence Skull 2.5 times wider)
This is done for visibility, I assume (ded in heretic was done by Skyjake, I merely moved it over to Hexen, leaving the size the same)
Probably the final size as reducing it makes it rather more difficult to spot from further away (when not set against bright blue background)

Same alternate-heretic files. Link added, so others can find it easily, (from different thread)

[Kresjah]

May I suggest trying to brighten the skin a tad bit or making a shine on the model either lighter (if that is possible) or put less shine on it, and then resizing it to the original size?

By using models that are bigger than the sprites original size may cause visual anomalies on some map, espesially on user-made maps. Let's just say that a user has made a map with some wings of wrath placed. The one who made the map, tested the map with sprites and adjusted the map with sprite graphics in his mind. Let's just say that he of some reason made the walls in the room so that the wings of wrath (sprite version) graphically barely fit inside this room. Now, if someone plays the map with the 3D-model, the wings would exceed the size of the room, hence at least part of the wings of the model would be outside of the wall. It won't cause any error, but the model would of course look fairly odd, not to mention that if this room was placed inside another room, this would make the wings visible through the wall.

I'm not saying that the model itself sucks or anything (on the contrary, it's very good), but I highly recommend setting the size to it's original size, especially with the mentioned scenario in mind.

[Jaquboss]

Yea working , working , but Don´t you slyrr want to redone your minotaur and add NECK to him??

[Slyrr]

Looking over the Heretic Models so far, I will offer these suggestions, for what they are worth....

1) The phoenix ammo looks nice, but I didn't envision 'shiny' skins for them. They are melted orbs with flames still burning on them, and as such, being shiny isn't really in character. They are meant to look charred, ash blackened, and non-specular. Plus, the shiny skins don't wrap well on their UVW coordinates, and the bands of shininess tend to jump all over the place when you rotate around them when walking. So I'd say for any future changes - ditch the shiny effect on the phoenix ammo. (editorial: just because Doomsday supports shiny skins, doesn't mean that EVERY object should have them - it seems like every object imported recently was made shiny. And it's not necessary. Some objects (like the phoenix ammo) don't look 'natural' when shiny. Anything that's not actually metallic and polished should not be made shiny simply for the sake of it. Hence, the sheilds look good shiny, but weapons/some ammo/monsters don't.)

2) The hellstaff ammo is a little TOO transprent - it's hard to see. Just make it a LITTLE transparent, if you have control over the level of transparency.

3) Hellstaff/Mace ammo should ROTATE slowly on the ground like the rest of the ammo does. I can see leaving the Phoenix ammo NOT rotating since the particle flames would complicate things in that regard. But any pickup - key/ammo/artifact/weapon should be rotating slowly, with only a few exceptions.

4) Shadowsphere should be scaled down slightly - it's mite too big.

5) Shadowsphere needs to cycle thru it's animation a bit faster.

6) The lava rocks are WAY too big - they need to be scaled down a bit. Right now they are like twice as big around as the opening to the volcano itself. Shrink 'em.....

7) Nitrogolem skull needs reskinning - loox too yellow - don't worry I'm on it :) In fact, here it is!

http://home.comcast.net/~gregfisk/nitroSKULLSKIN.bmp

This one is higher res, more detailed than the last one (duh). It has the same name, so just replace the old one in the PK3 with the new one and it should be OK. (SHOULD, I say....)

8) The shiny skin may need to be removed from the Mace ammo. The way spheres are UVW coordinated, the bands of shininess in Doomsday jump around all over them. Just flat grey with shading should (I hope) look fine for the mace ammo skins, just like on the mace weapon pickup itself. The skins may need darkening. When you apply shininess to an object, you increase the 'brightness' on it, and the mace ammo is meant to look like dark and rough metal that's been weathering outside for a while, like cannonballs.....

As to the Maulotaur, he's got a neck - it's just very stocky. The original sprite has huge trapezius muscles and so does the 3D version. I don't really plan to 're-do' the Maulotaur to match everyone's interpretations of how it 'should' look because everyone has their own ideas in that regard. If you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing nobody. (Just ask John Kerry - he knows)
I mirrored the actual sprite as closely as I could - if you'd like an alternate version of the Maulotaur, Doomsday certainly supports that. But you'll have to do your own, I'm afraid.....

And to the scaling on the wings of wrath, they were scaled by Skyjake himself - I'd be VERY careful about tinkering with stuff that the guy who WROTE Doomsday has already decided looks right. Otherwise, there'll be bazillions of different DED files for each person to suit their own tastes, and I'd rather have Skyjake as the final arbiter of how each model/object should look. He's proven himself right time and again with the passage of time, and several years working on this under his belt.

[Catsy]

The phoenix ammo looks nice, but I didn't envision 'shiny' skins for them. They are melted orbs with flames still burning on them, and as such, being shiny isn't really in character.

Huh?

Look carefully at the specular on the sprite for the large phoenix ammo. It's always looked to me like they were glassy spheres which only had to be shattered to release the flames within. Personally, melted lumps with flames coming out of them are about as far from faithful models as I could imagine.

Hellstaff/Mace ammo should ROTATE slowly on the ground like the rest of the ammo does.

I suppose it's too late to put in that I /hatehatehate/ this theme of having the pickups in the resource packs rotate. It makes sense for some--artifacts like the Tome of Power, for example. It's particularly aggravating with the Doom weapons, which tend to clip into the walls in visually unappealing ways while they rotate.

Nitrogolem skull needs reskinning - loox too yellow - don't worry I'm on it In fact, here it is!

That looks bad-ass. :D

[Slyrr]

The sprite for the phoenix ammo isn't necessarily 'shiny'. Just 'shaded'. A charred, ash-flecked orb will still catch a light source and look brighter in one spot. I made the phoenix ammo into melted orbs just to differentiate them from the CLAW ammo. In heretic, most of the sprite ammo is ORB shaped (mace spheres, claw ammo, phoenix orbs). It was a choice to give the ammo a little more variety of shape (though if you look at the phoenix ammo from the FRONT only, it still matches the sprite very well).

You may not like rotating pick-ups, but most of the pick-ups in Heretic rotate already, and if some do, and some don't, it makes the causal player think: "Did the game maker just get lazy? Why aren't all the objects rotating?" They'd see all the weapon ammo rotating, then see stationary hell/mace ammo and wonder what went wrong...... (that's what I thought)

[Ton80]

Message deleted.

[edorien]

1/2 -- done

3 -- Having the mace-ammos rotate seems a bit pointless, but ok
Lose the Light-maps for the hellstaff? (they can't rotate)

4-6 -- done

7 --
It has the same name, so just replace the old one in the PK3 with the new one and it should be OK. (SHOULD, I say....)
Unfortunately, its a bit more involved than that, due to the change in skin-size


Edit;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/edorien/3.bmp
Rather bright yellow occurs when saving skin on-to model as pcx file *owell*


Version below includes
All of Slyrr's suggestions done (lightmaps on staff-ammo removed for rotation, mace-ammo now rotates, transparency halved of staff-ammo, shiny on rod-ammo removed.
(small mace skin problems fixed-suprised no-one noticed this)

http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/h-filesa.zip

Rotating mace-ammos don't look great,

[Slyrr]

Hmm - I should be able to do something about the skin to tone it a bit, if you don't mind the back-and-forth....

If you really feel the mace ammo looks better stationary, I can live with it - it was just a suggestion. Feel free to change it back, though consult with Skyjake and see what he thinks. I'd still prefer him as the final arbiter....

Just tried out the new(er) pack - looking good :)

Some things I hadn't noted before:

1) Skyjake never got around to doing an alpha textured version of the hanging corpse for transparency on the tattered cloak - at some point that should be done as well...

2) will the 'rock dead body' model be installed for the liche? (that's what is was primarily made for. If it's on the docket, forget I mentioned it)

3) Particle fx need to be reinstated for the nitrogolem skull...

4) the 3D arrows striking monsters seem a bit 'off' somehow - like they're not hitting where they player is aiming....

5) explosion FX need to be added to most weapon/projectile strikes....

I wish I knew something about coding so I could help, but maybe it's just as well if I keep my oar out of it....

[edorien]

Hmm - I should be able to do something about the skin to tone it a bit, if you don't mind the back-and-forth....
3) Particle fx need to be reinstated for the nitrogolem skull...
I'll tweak the particles when the skin is finalised, (they are present at the moment,(see below))

2) will the 'rock dead body' model be installed for the liche? (that's what is was primarily made for. If it's on the docket, forget I mentioned it)
Doing it still tweaking explosion-fx/ rock positioning,
(rocks at the end are finished, however getting the actual death to look "right" is whats taking a while)
It may be an idea to make the skins a little bit closer in colour to that of the liche. Light grey stone of liche compared to dark grey of rock-gibs.


4) the 3D arrows striking monsters seem a bit 'off' somehow - like they're not hitting where they player is aiming....
Wil fix

5) explosion FX need to be added to most weapon/projectile strikes....
The problem is that on most levels, we are extremely close to the max no. of generators (beyond this limit, all generators turn off. Adding more generators, will just increase the no. of occasions where this will occur (The instant your projectile hits, in some cases)
Download alternate heretic files.zip and extract the imp-projectile.ded, into the directory (your doomsday directory)/defs/auto/ and run the map e2m8, to see what I mean.

edit;
I wish I knew something about coding so I could help

The first thing to do would be to look through the documentation (deddoc.txt)
And then look at some existing ones , (Dani's work is tidier, easier to follow (labelled sections), and check what each function does then look through some more complicated ones
(Start with medikits/ammo-types (Doom) or (arrows/ vials (heretic)
Then look at models without generators (demon/gargoyle/korax)
Then look at some with particle generators (firesticks/brazier)
And check each function in the deddoc if unsure of its function)

Try comparing the works of other people, and you will see that they manner in which a task is done is mostly the same (mostly as presentation varies)

ID tags are found in objects .ded

Useful links
http://deng.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/view/Editing/WebHome
http://modelyard.newdoom.com/facts.shtml
http://www.doomsdayhq.com/doc_dedref.php ##(deddoc.txt in docs folder)

Any-way reading the main file (deddoc.txt) should give you an idea of the limitations of the scripting method.

[michael_llewellyn]

Is anybody here willing to set up/maintain a site for the jHeretic model pack efforts? Site would be jhmp.jfiles.org. It doesnt have to be a single person. If so then post here or PM me. I'll give you ftp details and set up any mysql databases you may need. 500M of space set aside.

Regards
Michael

edit: acuatlly a combined Heretic/Hexen site is obviously a better idea (duh *drunk* ). Ideas for subdomain name are welcome :)

[Kresjah]

Ooooh... I'd love to see them on jFiles.org :D

You could go with the very innovative title of jhxmp.jfiles.org :p But then again, I'm not part of the team, so it's just a free suggestion. I just help out on hosting the files until I either run out of space, or a proper host is available :)

EDIT: I've been thinking a bit about the scaling issues. I'm not very skilled at DED editing, so some of the stuff I write here may be a bit of. Feel free to correct me if some of my statements are incorrect.

Does the scaling depend on a fixed size (relative to the world) or proportional size (relative to the model)? I took a quick peek into the DED documentation and found this:

Scale = 1.0;
# Scaling factor for the whole model (all submodels affected).
# Uniformly sets *all* components of "Scale XYZ" to the specified
# scaling factor.

From what I interpret from that, the scaling is relative to the model. If that is the case, even skyjakes scaling may be incorrect (no offence skyjake :p).

So, if a model in it's pure form is 3 units (not sure of which measurement scale to use, but you probably understand) on the X scale, and scaling is set to 2.0, this is effectively increase it's size to the double (6 units on the X axis). If someone makes an alternate model which is, again in it's pure form, 5 units on the X axis, the same DED would make it 10 units on the X axis.

If the scaling is model relative, then skyjakes original set scaling might be correct or incorrect completely depending on the size of the model itself in it's pure form.

Should scaling be world relative though, then skyjakes scaling will be correct no matter the size of the model in its pure form.

Am I correct in believing that the scaling is model relative?

[michael_llewellyn]

I'm sorry to trouble you but would one of you guys be kind enough to right a paragraph about the hexen model pack and a paragraph about the heretic model pack. they can be pretty much indentical it doesnt matter. just a little something about status, how the pack started, how much help you get, etc. You can write more than a paragraph if you really wish! Its for the jfiles.org website.
Thanks Alot!

[Caden]

Rather bright yellow occurs when saving skin on-to model as pcx file
~~~~~~
I get problems when using pcx too, so use tga, only problem is the file size is bigger i think? but the color will work fine. Also i dont think skyjake allows you to submit tga...

[Kresjah]

Is there no way of getting the model to be compatible with a png skin?

[edorien]

Updated link (fixed golem-skull)
http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/h-filesa.zip
(replaces older pack)

Not yet had time to write something for jfiles yet, (possibly in the next few days)

[Caden]

Is there no way of getting the model to be compatible with a png skin?

Yes it is possible, but i don't know how. Ask Dani in the jdoom fourms

[Kresjah]

caden: edorien answered me on MSN earlier today. Take a look at the new release of the hfiles. :)

[Caden]

I havent tried any of these models, what im using doesnt have much. I stoped checking the heretic/hexen section when Cain disapeared (he seemed to be the only one working on them) Where can i get the most current version? Have pain skins been put on all monsters yet? If not you guys can have my ophidian skins (Cain put it together and it all works)

[Kresjah]

I don't know so much technical details, so I can tell if all models have gotten pain skins yet. The newest version has png skin for the golem-skull too.

The newest files can either be gotten here in this thread (two or three posts back), or from the mirror in my signature.

[michael_llewellyn]

*cough* the new files can also be downloaded from jfiles.org *cough*
*bliss*

[Caden]

I just downloaded the packs on jfiles, but it doesnt include the ones that were made before it? Everything i saw looked real bad. The crossbow needs retextureing and the models could use some more work, and a lot better animation. The alternate torch effects look horrible. (maybe its just my computer messing up) The alternate skin on the tome looks bad, and i havent seen anything else yet.

Edit: Ok iv opened up the crossbow skin, and it looks nice, but in game it looks bad. Whats with that?

[edorien]

any comments on the other newer (non-alternative) stuff

Your welcome to help improve them

[michael_llewellyn]

Old files can be found on the fourwinds ftp server for now. For some reason they are not incorporated into the new pack and because of that i have left them of jfiles until i know the state of affairs.

edit:
ftp://server1.thefourwinds.net/jheretic/models/
and
ftp://server1.thefourwinds.net/jhexen/models/

[edorien]

skyjake compiles the official pack, as with cain's deco pack for hexen.
ie these models/deds not yet approved by skyjake.

[Ben2k9]

when will all these new models and such be updated on the Doomsday site? Frankly, I cant be bothered searching through 11 pages for links and thefourwinds server wont let me in (its says 'no anonymous users allowed' or something).

[michael_llewellyn]

Doh I'm sorry I forgot! username: jfiles
therefore:
ftp://jfiles@server1.thefourwinds.net/jheretic/models/
ftp://jfiles@server1.thefourwinds.net/jhexen/models/

Hmm I just realised the connection :) maybe I should add that the fourwinds server and the username "jfiles" actually has nothing to do with jfiles.org. Don't get confused *what*

[Ben2k9]

thanks dude :)

[Caden]

any comments on the other newer (non-alternative) stuff

Your welcome to help improve them

What is the new stuff? i cant seem to find it i guess. Sure ill help, but i suck with photoshop and im not good at 3ds max either :( maybe some day i can be like my hero, Dani :P

[edorien]

http://www.freewebs.com/edorien/h-filesa.zip


That one.

Slyrr, about the liche-death gibs
Skin needs to be lighter.
Having a 3d model turn to 2d explosion and back to 3d for it's remains looks wrong,
(replacing 2d explosion with 3d particle explosion and falling rock-gibs looks worse)

Likely needs some intermediate animations, or

[Ton80]

A suggestion for you guys working on the deds.

Would you please put in your deds the respective skipif -option (nohudmod nomonstermod noplayermod nogweaponmod noitemmod nofxmod nodecormod) so that one would have flexibility with kickstart in disabling certain models, etc... for pwads that have custom-made sprites/FX?

[edorien]

And into every other model as well, I take it
(skipif commands are not used on any model in heretic or hexen at present)

(and add kickstart option/

[Slyrr]

Ideally, I'd like the Liche (when it dies) to do what the golems do in Hexen2 when they die. After standing in pain for a second, they fall down, then explode into bits of rock. Skyjake said Doomsday can't do that though.

How does it look when you leave out the explosion completely and just have the liche go straight into the rock gib death? (i.e. use the gib rock file as a substitute for his 'death' animation....)

[Catsy]

Well, can the "corpse" model have an animation that doesn't loop? IE, when it first displays it does the "dying" animation, and then stays "dead"?

[Ton80]

And into every other model as well, I take it
(skipif commands are not used on any model in heretic or hexen at present)

(and add kickstart option/

I'm not getting what you mean. *confused*

What I meant was that let's say a pwad has different sprites for hud models I can use the jHRP/jXRP/jDRP for the other stuff and select "Disable HUD weapon models" in KIckstart and use the wad's sprites; but I can't do that unless the related deds have "SkipIf -nohudmod"

I'm playing 'Carnage Galore I' and the author has some radically different FX and decoration sprites that would not show correctly if I use jHRP as is, but he hasn't altered the Actors models so far as I can tell. So I can use the jHRP Actor models but have his FX and decorations show up using Kickstart if I wish.

I've added the appropriate SkipIf into my compilation of jHRP but it would suck big time when you all will update and I have to go back into all of the deds but by you all entering those SkipIfs into your deds it's taken cared of like Dani J666 did for his jDRP. That way people have freedom of choice.

I realize that each model can't be 'selected/deselected' just groups of related models.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I didn't want anybody confused on what I was trying to say. There was no offence intended. Sorry if I did.

[edorien]

i assumed this was related to
For some reason they are not incorporated into the new pack and because of that i have left them of jfiles until i know the state of affairs.


I assumed you were requesting it to be done for all existing deds, as you said
I've added the appropriate SkipIf into my compilation of jHRP
but yes it will be done for the next release

edit
no offense taken, sorry if it sounded that way


How does it look when you leave out the explosion completely and just have the liche go straight into the rock gib death? (i.e. use the gib rock file as a substitute for his 'death' animation....)

going straight to gibs, removing any form of death animation.
Skull is there one second, pile of gibs the next (some form of explosion must be there to hide change)


Ideally, I'd like the Liche (when it dies) to do what the golems do in Hexen2 when they die. After standing in pain for a second, they fall down, then explode into bits of rock. Skyjake said Doomsday can't do that though.

You could have liche sink to ground (extending tics for a frame or 2), hold for a time explode leaving something ( although not necessary, but would look better) , and use rock chunks as model particles, (disappear when hit walls)

sorry about even longer post

[Ton80]

Um there seems to be a problem with the wraithverge segment. This shot is from Pyre but it does show in other hexen maps where available. I didn't know what it was at first.
http://home.comcast.net/~chades1968/hexen-dk-065.jpg

[edorien]

which segment is that?

[Ton80]

According to DB, it is Thing Type 18 Wraithverge Piece 1. Sorry it took so long to get back with you. I work at night.

It doesn't even show up if placed on the ground just the lighting which is bobbing up and down. It's supposed to be the one on the left.
http://home.comcast.net/~chades1968/hexen-001.jpg

[Vermil]

According to DB, it is Thing Type 18 Wraithverge Piece 1. Sorry it took so long to get back with you. I work at night.

It doesn't even show up if placed on the ground just the lighting which is bobbing up and down.

For me it's showing up in game, abiet in the floor besides other things.

http://www.geocities.com/the_shinjo2002/hexen-002.jpg

Also there doesn't seem to be skins for the Quietus parts 1 and 2 in the pack (or at least the one I downloaded, hopefully it's the latest version. The top of page9 is the last HeXen pack update I could find).

[Ton80]

Could the problem be that "Scale = ??" is not defined in the Wraithvergeworld.ded? All the other deds have the Scale defined though 2 & 3 seem fine. Just brainstorming and *book*

@Vermil Quietus is using the common\shiny.pcx for a skin. BTW, Vermil, where is that shadow coming from on Wraith #1 in your pic?

[Vermil]

Ton80: The Wraithverge world models have an auto scale flag, which though I'm not familiar with model definitions, I guess makes Dday automatically scale the model.

However based off how it appears in game, at least for me, I’d say the Wraith#1 model might be better off manually scaled (and with some offsets added), since I found it in game...

EDIT: Ton80: The below image also shows what that "shadow" is ;)

http://www.geocities.com/the_shinjo2002/hexen-006.JPG

[Jaquboss]

I don´t know , most of it is wird, worked good for me , but I havn´t teted it so much , also not done with care (every part about some minutes , thats damn bad speed , need to tak much more care with every model , skin , etc.. , this is to be redone...)
Feel free to modify/redone it , if you have more than 10 min for every model :-) ,
really I will try to spend much more time over it , make skin for everything and test it with care...

[Cain]

Hello evry body...:)

That make a long time i'm not coming here.... that feels me strange...

-I see some of lot of work are comming/realesed here... It's very impresive me...
very good work ...
- well... if some of the community want me again.. i can try to continu my work...;)

-I know my decoration pack are not realy done.. i need to rework all they ded files...
and i have start this work... on the decoration pack and the items pack...

[Darmuss]

Nice to hear from you Cain *l7*

Everybody need's a break sometime *bliss*

[edorien]

Cain's back, :)

And link to the
Where's Cain Poll (http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=22808)

[Jaquboss]

That´s great CAIN is back , decor pack is not dead!
Really this needs great modelers from jdrp (dani , chilvence) , they are doing best work
But looking foward for your great effects (i hope you will ad flames, magic effects , and etc.)
Please , try to use df_dim flag for light sources , that´s making it fit there (no fullbright torches with little flames ..)
Are you author of small candles in that decor pack ?? (they rocks , looking like Morrowind)
This is really good new..

[deus-ex]

- well... if some of the community want me again.. i can try to continu my work...;)
Horray!!! Cain is back. *party*
Of course we want you to continue your great work. Find us someone who does'nt and we take care of him. :D

deus-ex

[Cain]

:) Thanks a lot ....

WOW... theire make a poll for me !... that realy touch me... :)
... and all these fine words on me ... Thanks gyes... :)

The Doomsday community is very the better..... *thumbs*

...Really this needs great modelers from jdrp (dani , chilvence) , they are doing best work.But looking foward for your great effects (i hope you will ad flames, magic effects , and etc.)...

-Ihope to..;), for that i need to learn more thing about the ded fonction..

Are you author of small candles in that decor pack ?? (they rocks , looking like Morrowind)

-Humm the small candle... with the blue flame ?
Not totaly me... i think Chilvence have make the base of this mesh...
but i never take model in Morrowind... ;)

-I read some of thread in the Forum... but someone can tel me who make what...
and whats news about modeling in the Doomsday ver 1.8.2...? ( just a summary ..I stop at 1.7.14... *rolleyes* )

[edorien]

still md2 models.
no additional features other that fake-radio, other than that mainly bug fixes and linux support, (and early mac support)

[Cain]

-Thanks edorien, nothing change for modelling.... *smirk*

-I have remake all "ded" files for the Skyjake rules, but i have some strange problem...
-Models does not appear and an Undefined state about sprite...

Just look some line i see in my Doomsday.out..:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...] R_InitModels: Initializing MD2 models.
R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'Decor/corps1/ZCORPSEKABOB1'.
R_InitModels: Done in 0.38 seconds.
[...]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and this, is normal ? :
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]SetupLevel: MAP01
GL_VERT v2.0
Map 1 (1): WINNOWING HALL
MYSTIC URN
LIBER OSCURA
YORICK'S SKULL
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
YOU CANNOT USE THIS HERE
TORCH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is just end here...

*confused*

[Jaquboss]

R_SetupModel: Undefined state 'Decor/corps1/ZCORPSEKABOB1'.

there must be only ZCORPSEKABOB1 not any path , you have maked mistake

you should define state as this State = "ZBARREL1";
don´t know why there are not other models , verify pathes ...

[Cain]

Ho yes!!.. i not see that...pfffuuu...i'm stupid... O.o'

Thanks Jaquboss ... ;)

-I think, If some body can test my "packs" and to see the error which I do not see...
that can be a great help for me...

-that interest someone ?

[Ton80]

I'll be a tough beta tester. *winky*
Just ask Vermil. *grin*

[deus-ex]

2Cain
Just post here any problem you might have with the pack. We're glad to help if we can. Please provide links to the files to test along with a description of the problem.

Btw., i fixed and enhanced several aspects of your great additions (and from other artists, too) to jHeretic/jHexen to suit my likings. E.g. the Torch now has particle flames and the model doesn't jump, replaced Mace-Ammo texture, replaced Golem-Skull (Dani's "Lost Soul"), adjusted heigth of the "Bougie" (Candles at wall) model etc.. And i resaved all textures to .png format using pngout & pngcrush resulting in lower filesize while keeping texture quality, though i resized some of them (.e.g. Golem/Mummy) to more reasonable dimensions without loosing the detail in game. Plus i added a couple of custom sound effects (not from the available soundfile-pack releases).

One request: Please overwork the Heretic Crossbow HUD-Model. Its bending to the left and right while walking doesn't quiet fit (looks awful). Also the crossbow's downward movement after shooting doesn't look good in my opinion. It rather should move upwards since the weapon is supported with the left hand, right?

Currently i'm using a Crowsbow HUD model made by Jaquboss (i think) which seem to resemble your model. It also has that downward movement which i disabled in the .ded file.


Best regards, deus-ex.

[Cain]

Hey!..that sound good :).. i'm very curious to see your work...

Currently i'm using a Crowsbow HUD model made by Jaquboss (i think) which seem to resemble your model. It also has that downward movement which i disabled in the .ded file.

- that does not disturb me to use my model in order to improve them ( if is my model...)
-Where i can grab it..?

One request: Please overwork the Heretic Crossbow HUD-Model [...]

-Yes I have the project to remake it completely.. i learn some new stuff on lightwave.. i thing that can help me to making better work... *book*

- I go to upload my last work ( needing some time to upload it *cool* ) :

-DecorationPack include new "ded" rules, include aplpha version of the Ettin, include
my Hammer hud and the very basic punch...

-ItemsPack include my models, Jxrp models and HexenModelyard models

When i'm ok to upload it I would specify which are the encountered problems ...

[Jaquboss]

Currently i'm using a Crowsbow HUD model made by Jaquboss (i think) which seem to resemble your model. It also has that downward movement which i disabled in the .ded file.
Oh man , that´s my first model ...
But I think that cain have smoother animations and better wood part shape...
But I don´t used ANY model to create that , only the arrow was in jHeretic model pack..

[deus-ex]

2Cain
Please check your hot mailbox. ;)

deus-ex

[deus-ex]

2Jaquboss
I like it very much, though. I prefer it over Cain's current model because of its described left/right bending in the weapon front area when moving. That looks unnatural to me. I didn't know how to get rid of that, i think it can't be controlled from inside the .ded file, right? At least i didn't figure it out and i'm not familiar in editing the model files itself.

Btw., not to forget your HUD weapons for jHexen which are great, too. Any news/progress on that front?

Regards, deus-ex.

[Cain]

OK... Upload Done...
Go to my Web site for download They Packs : CainX (http://cainx.free.fr)
( go in " Mon Travail " Section... *cool*

[Cain]

- If you look good i have an probleme on the Shiny effect on the iced ettin...

thanks for your Help...

[edorien]

how about adding slyrr's korax model to it?

Link to korax model thread (http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=24597)

Ded, png file, md2 file in different files.
Ded not latest, (may upload later, but probably could use re-working

[Caden]

Hey Cain your back!

[edorien]

ettin death skin not changing, eyes on skin may need their position tweaking, hud hammer and fist animations need work

[Cain]

2 Caden : Yes i'm back ;)

2 edorien :
ettin death skin not changing, eyes on skin may need their position

Ok , i think is easely to making death skin...

tweaking, hud hammer and fist animations need work

..yes i know, i work on it ( i'm not very good in animating thing, and i not realy andertstand how to use the "df_worldtime " flag...*uhh* )

....and what do you think about my items models... that sound good..?

[edorien]

there fine. Dark servant def could do with more tweaking, (sprite occasionally appears)
And the wfire model could use a particle flame

[deus-ex]

I recently send an updated jHexen model pack to Cain which includes his latest releases plus several models/textures/definitions from differnt authors, for example Slyrr, Jaquboss and Edorien. All textures where resaved to .png and size optimized. I edited, tweaked and fixed several definitions, for example i enhanced the Chandelier, Bougie and Wtorch models with particle flames (took me a long time to get it right) and i managed to fix the broken "icy shine effect" of Cain's new Ettin model.

It is Cains decision if he likes to use any of my work, but i think he won't mind if i offer a litte tweak for the HUDHammer and HUDPunch model so they adapt better to the original sprite. Same rule applies here: If you don't like it, don't use it. Even better, improve it just like i tried to do.

Copy/Paste these lines into file "Defs\jHexen\Models\HUD\Hammer.ded" of Cain's model pack:
Scale = 7.3;
Offset XYZ { 50 -55 -160 };
Copy/Paste this line into file "Defs\jHexen\Models\HUD\Punch.ded" of Cain's model pack:Offset XYZ { 5 15 -25 };

Thanks to Cain (and to all other contributors of course) for making jHeretic/jHexen more fun.

Regards, deus-ex

[Cain]

2 edorien :
Thanks for the items pack.... you right for the Dark servant and wfire...
i'm go to work on it...

2deus-ex :

*shocked* WOW!! you have making an very big work, an excelent job !

-i think to use all your tweak :) , I just want to say, the Hud hammer...is an beta and the punch ( the fist ) is an very basic alpha version,i hop to tweak her animations , use more frame with the "df_worldtime" flags and why not, give them idle animations...

-i'm go to upload they enhanced packs... ;) ( people want one pack like the JDRP or 2 or 3 pk3 files..?)

-You are a great guy ! thanks for your great job... *bang*

[doomer]

Great to see you back Cain.
One nice pack would be best then we can test easily in the auto directory.
Thx

[Jaquboss]

Note to all
Strange thing in state definition for hexen hud objects
eg. Misc1 = 60;
Misc2 = 20; -- they are fixing sprite position , but they are also Destroying model animation and making it choppy , if you are creating HUD models , delete it!

[Jaquboss]

2Jaquboss
I like it very much, though. I prefer it over Cain's current model because of its described left/right bending in the weapon front area when moving. That looks unnatural to me. I didn't know how to get rid of that, i think it can't be controlled from inside the .ded file, right? At least i didn't figure it out and i'm not familiar in editing the model files itself.

Btw., not to forget your HUD weapons for jHexen which are great, too. Any news/progress on that front?

Regards, deus-ex.

Thanks , i don´t feel that my models are great ..
I have reworked that crossbow , with new more framed animation and maked arrow to fly on crossbow :-) (looks interesting)


Now changed a bit offsets too look more like original sprite , i´m going to upload.
At this moment i prefer making mod for ET (sorry , this will be big delay for my models , but I don´t want to leave jHeXen / jHeretic community
Also a game called Gothic II was a big deal (and time eater , but Its my favourite game so...) also modding ET will give me a bit of C++ skills ...
If I get free time I still make models for jHexen (I like to see md3 support there , becuase I want to learn with that format , and Doomsday allows easy editing)
If you are looking at this post , you can wait till edit , I´m uploading...

EDIT: www.freewebs.com/jaquboss/H-HUD-Crossbow-v2.zip
2Cain:You already have new version of pack ?

[Cain]

...Jaquboss say :
2Cain:You already have new version of pack ?

-Yes is done ! ;)

-Go here : Cainx (http://cainx.free.fr/Montrav.htm)

-grab it and test it..! *smirk*