Warning: Id Lied

[jls23]

I remember DISTINCTLY that ID said that in MP, EVERY light would be destructible, and in fact, most of them aren't, and the only ones that ARE destructible are immediately replaced by other indestructible lights that turn on right next to it. AND they said that you would be able to turn off the lights in every room, and you can only do that in a few rooms, and in some it's only temporary. Sorry if I sound like a jackass, but this sounds like a TOTAL lie to me.

P.S. Remember, If I sound like a jackass, I'm very sorry. I'm just kinda PO'd by all this. BTW it's the same thing with SP, except a couple more lights actually ARE destructible.

[eX_Do0mY]

Not being able to destruct lights isn't going to take away from the experience.

[jls23]

!!! In MP it does!!! The biggest advantage you have is the dark in MP!

[MasterOfPuppets]

its not a big deal.

[DooMMooD]

ummmm yeah, not a very big letdown from my perspective. i honestly could care less. still an incredible game.

[TheVoid]

oh no! teh game is ruined because i cant break every light in every room and make the entire map totally dark.

do you have ANY IDEA the amount of noobie-ness you would get with that? people showing up in servers, breaking all the lights and leaving? no thank you.

[doomdiz]

hm.....im glad im not so picky about such things....just as long as the game functions, im a happy camper...(tho that may not be the case, given the sorry state of both my vid card and wallet)...oh, well

[elbryan42]

Take it from a Descent player. Being able to shoot out every light in MP makes the experience all the more better.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

The ability to control lighting was, in my mind, what was going to set Doom3 apart from being just another standard DM shooter. I was expecting a more strategic, stealthy game. Instead though, it doesn't innovate at all, and looks pretty typical to play in DM.

[Wicked Anime Kid]

I don't care....

Or as I like to say in Dutch, BOEIEND!!! *flip*

[MasterOfPuppets]

i'm happy if i can just get into a server. every refresh yeilds servers with 1/4 players in them, and they are full by the time i click on them! -pulls out hair-

[Ninja_of_DooM]

Why should it be a problem?
Anyone notcied the flood of n00bs all fo a sudden?

[PumpkinSmasher]

Why should it be a problem?
Anyone notcied the flood of n00bs all fo a sudden?
I think we all have noticed the n00bs.

And i dont relaly care about being able to shoot the lights out. If you don't like it then make your own DM map in which you can do it.

[Wicked Anime Kid]

Why should it be a problem?
Anyone notcied the flood of n00bs all fo a sudden?
newbs, where? I haven't seen any *flip*

[Mad Max RW]

I think Aliens vs. Predator was the last FPS where destroying lights is a major factor. But each player had a different way of seeing in the dark to make up for that. In Doom 3 all you have is a weakass flashlight. Imagine if you could destroy all the lights, or most of them in a level. The game would turn into flashlight tag real quick.

[Doom_Dude]

Why should it be a problem?
Anyone notcied the flood of n00bs all fo a sudden?

First of all I haven't played the game at all and when I do it'll be for the SP and not the MP. Anyhow I'm sure it sucks to not be able to shoot out the lights when you expected that you would be able to do so. However now that you realise you can't shoot out all the lights then maybe you'll just have to live with it the way it is.

Ninja I could've told you years ago that when Doom 3 comes out there would be a lot of new guys joining the forums. I don't see how that is a problem as most of them are posting normally just like the rest of us.

[GoldEyes]

Yeah, DD got to say it before I did. We knew there was going to be a flood of new people signing up/posting to the forums when Doom III finally had a release date and was released. Why is that such a big deal?

[ReX]

We knew there was going to be a flood of new people signing up/posting to the forums when Doom III finally had a release date and was released. Why is that such a big deal?I'm with you GE. It's great that New DooM has such a huge influx of fresh blood. And while most of the current interest is in D3, some of it will eventually find its way to classic DooM, and we'll get to see fresh new levels from those people.

[ARMYguy]

I must really be weird, cause i play DM to kill people, not play with lights.

[Ninja_of_DooM]

I was just pointing it out DD.:)

[elbryan42]

I too, like fresh new blood. As long as they don't turn into pricks that act like they know everything. That's the job of the Doom vetrans. :P

If newbs come, I hope they play the old Dooms and become classic Doom fans as well.

Also, it appears Doom Collector's Edition was rereleased with Doom 3. More chances for those who don't legally own Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, and Final Doom to pick it up.

[Wicked Anime Kid]

Why did they released the doom collectors edition here first, and D3 still has to come...

I hate Holland!*diablo*

*grabs out flamethrower and burns the parliament*

[Doom_Dude]

I was just pointing it out DD.:)

Okee Dokee. :p

[Shakadi]

Well, if you run the server, you may be able to do a poplight or clearlight command. I've never tried it in MP. But a game in the dark 'cept for FL and muzzle flash would be fun.

[jls23]

Elbryan42 is right guys. Maybe have it as an option in the game menu, tho, like percentage of destructible lights, just to make sure there are no n00b floods where all they do is destroy the lights. In MP you barely ever have to use the light, which really sucks.

[Doom_Dude]

Why did they released the doom collectors edition here first, and D3 still has to come...

I hate Holland!*diablo*

*grabs out flamethrower and burns the parliament*

That blows Imp chunks that you have to wait anouther week.

[Mystic]

happy doommas everyone

[tr1gg3r h4ppy]

Why would it be good to break every light in the game? I mean that would make it pointless the zombies still cye. Unless you like to use your flashlight throughout the whole game. Which that would suck! All i have to say is wah wah *cry* *cry*

[MasterOfPuppets]

exept he was talking about multiplayer. actually having totally dark areas in doom 3 puts a nice twist into the whole DM mix - but total blackness pemanantly is just crazy.

[ARMYguy]

When i figuer out how to make maps ill be sure to make a giant square room, will it with pillars, and put no lights whats so ever in it, and then you all can be content in playing a level with no lights hehe

[The Undertaker]

Then you get accused of cheating by upping the gamma.

[MasterOfPuppets]

lol i can see that happenning. put a blink in it every couple of seconds, then that will blind the gamma lamers

[Mystic]

There is a great little Doom (maybe doom 2) DM map like that, its called zzone. amazing rocket fun.

[C e r b e r u s]

Damn. That's really stupid! *ohh*
That wasn't nice of ID software.

[Krehator]

No big deal really. However it would have added to the realism. That was one thing I always liked about red faction.

[iori]

If the lights were 'interruptable' (ie going off for a certain amount of time when shot) that would be awesome, and be better for dm.
I am all for the idea of making a dm map with lots of switchable lights, like in Duke3d. That is great, and isnt overkill like 'OMG EVREY LITE ISNT TURNOFFAVBLE :(((('.
Meh.. there is far too much complaining going on for a product that isnt that bad at all. Be thankful you all have a decent product to play.

[MasterOfPuppets]

i like the maps that have switches to turn off lights and have them come back on after awhile.

[elbryan42]

Think of this. Wanna hide and get the jump on someone? Shoot out a light in the corner and everytime you get to that room you have a perfect spot for a firefight. If it's a firefight with over 4 people, sometimes having a dark corner to keep the attention from you will be the difference between suicide and near death, being the only one in the room with two health. Then reap the rewards.

Also, a firefight in a pitch black room where you have to anticipate where the enemy is from their muzzle flash makes it quite challenging and fun.

And that's just two great applications to shootable lights. Lots of strategy in MP. Campers are easily killed with mines in Descent. In Doom 3, I don't know if there's a good defense from a camper. :|

Shootable lights = major fun. Switchable lights don't compare. Real time lights mean a lot more applications. If the lights can't be destroyed, MP will be half as fun.

Of course, ANY MP game where you shoot your friends is fun.

Doom or any other conventional 3D shooter will always be second place to Descent (any of them) in multiplayer. One player, Doom is always #1 for me.

[iori]

I know how fun it would be, I love maps..nay.. games that use shadows for strategic purposes, but are all the lights in doom3 source based? Are there any lights that are simple, point based lights that are used for mood, and dont have a source? If so, shooting out lights wouldnt have much effects, as there would still be this weird ambient light. Also, there would need to be 2 light textures for each light..
Anyway, if someone manages to make soem good maps that utilize this then great, but as it stands nothing will change the 5 stock maps that are inlcuded with doom3.

[ARMYguy]

I was glad to see many 20 and 32 player doom 3 games going. Makes all those idiots that hated doom 3 cause of 4 player limits look i dunno.... it didnt even lag much if any. i think ID under estimated their engine in that respect.

[jls23]

Actually, save for the streamlined controls and one other thing that I can't remember right now, D3 is not groundbreaking in any way. My main complaints are (in no particular order):

1.The aforementioned light complaint

2.Self Shadowing can only be added by altering code or downloading the Ultra-Extreme Quality Pack (not by ID)

3.Dissolving Bodies

4.Non-impressive static lights with no light-bloom

5.Not scary :(

6.Too many scripted events; not dynamic like id promised

7.Character's heads are too stock; no variety. You see the same head about 3 or 4 times in the first level.

When you think about it, when ID said that D3 exceeded their expectations from when they started, that was 4 years ago. Standards nowadays GREATLY exceed the standards for games back then. Obviously, reviewers and most fans are blinded by the fact that the game has finally been released, and they don't notice the countless things that id could have improved on. The most impressive thing about this game is the gameplay; more specifically, the "feel" the game has. The "feel" of the weapons and the "feel" of gunning down these monsters makes you keep coming back for more.

[Krehator]

The tactical advantage of creating darkness by shooting out the lights would have been nice but you'd always run into campers that just shoot out all the lights and slip into their coleman tent. There would have to be a limit or counter to camping.

I get the feeling that we have some Thief fans here. *bang*

[jls23]

Thief fans? I admit I like thief, but I have always had a sweetspot for doom, and I love this game, I just find that these flaws cannot be overlooked.

And don't make fun of my sig! My sig is me!

[ARMYguy]

most of that stuff you complain about is so insane, you really must not move from your chair man.... play the game cause its fun not because OMG I SAW THE SAME FACE TWICE ! OMG OMG ID SUCKS OMG

By the way, ID never said things wernt scripted. Think about it. How can monsters bash through walls, floors, come from anywhere, clime certain walls and railings, if it wasnt pre programmed? its impossible. The AI is perfectly good after the scipt entrance is performed, every monster acts in a TOTALLY different manner, and they all move out of the way of shots. What more do you want from a single player game? The only other good single game is far cry, and look at that AI, its more retarded than anything, the mercs stand there while you mow down the ones right next to them. Look at the game as a whole, and not through narrowed glasses of hate or ignorance.

[Caden]

Think about it. How can monsters bash through walls, floors, come from anywhere, clime certain walls and railings, if it wasnt pre programmed? its impossible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Someone hasnt been watching Half life 2 have they? Enimys work in teams, hide behind things, throw things at you, pick up your grenade and throw it right back. ID aimed at Doom being scary, like a movie. without the scripts they couldnt make sure that things would happen. some people you be freaked out and others wouldnt. Still it is very heavily scripted. That mod for co-op play forces you to kill the other person to get through a cut screen. i thought doom 3 would be a lot worse than it was. Game devlopers dont purposely lie to us (unless theres some conspiracy) There are features that just couldnt be made in time, or were deamed unnessicary. Half life 2 was supposted to come out a year ago, but its not here. things happen (but i personaly think that someone was paid off for that hl2 leak, 3 gigs of game stolen out of a computer behind security?) Just remember those small problems you dont like can be fixed with mods.

[iori]

id never advertized doom3 to innovate, so you cant hold that against them. In fact, id pretty much went out and said that it was going to be a linear, non revolutionary game in terms of gameplay. The only thing that I saw as 'innovative' was the lighting model, which was introduced too early on, and other developers took advantage of that to add it into their games. We however know that doom3 was the first game seen to use it.

When a game developer announces a feature years before the game is released it's to be expected that the features mentioned will go under review later on in the development process, and that not everything will be included. You can't say that id 'lied', no company can really lie when they are trying to sell a product, it just doesnt work for business. That one should be obvious.

Oh, and whether you find is scary or not is your opinon. You cannot hold somethng as arguable as an opinion against a game, whether you found it scary or not is beside the point, its that someone, somewhere (including myself) got and will get a scare or two out of it. Some people will be frightened out of their seats, some will just continue playing as it was nothing, something so variable cannot be held up as an arguement.

[Mystic]

I cant see the point in wanting total darkness myself, seems to me a game like that might be fun for a few minutes then quickly become very boring but then Im not a snivelling camper type, Im more the 'running around like a maniac with a shotgun' type.

[Caden]

I cant see the point in wanting total darkness myself, seems to me a game like that might be fun for a few minutes then quickly become very boring but then Im not a snivelling camper type, Im more the 'running around like a maniac with a shotgun' type.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why would you camp in single player?

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

Not being able to destruct lights isn't going to take away from the experience.

it may hurt in multiplayer, but from my singleplayer experience, im glad we can be plunged into comeplete darkness

[Caden]

its the multiplayer that keeps a game going *cough cough half lfie cough*

[Doom_Dude]

Whats the problem with the dissolving bodies? I think it a cool looking effect. I don't care if they melt, fade, burn up or just explode as long as the enemy dies and stays dead. :D

Like iori said, not everybody is going to find the same level of scaryness in D3... everybody is different.

The scripted events are cool and add a lot to the overall ambience. It looks and feels like a base on Mars and that your a Marine. I think they did a great job.

Same heads.... well they could've had a few more but I'm too busy playing SP and looking in corners for gear to worry about heads. :p

[jls23]

Actually, it was more like 8 gigs caden.

[ARMYguy]

im using a mod that takes 2 seconds to install that makes the bodies not disappear, and they can be moved, they stack on each other, they stop doors, they act just like bodies, so the mod did its job well. Watch out for the co op mods, theres one that STEALS your cd key... I also got the mod that addes the character shadows... that is THE stupidest thing to yell at ID for, you cant even notice anything different in the game unless you get real close, and look hard. People can be retarded.

As for the lights in Multi, im working on making my own maps, so this isnt a problem. However, all lights i feel should have a switch, and not be blown up, so that newbs cant reck a good game. Also games with 20 or 30 people DIDNT lag when i played, so ID must have over estimated their engine or something.

[iori]

There are the character shadows in multiplayer, I guess id felt that they didnt add anything to singleplayer... which indeed they dont. The awesome thing about multiplayer is that character shadows can finally give away a person's position, I think thats a brilliant little bit of gameplay (I hate to say the term innovation...) that works especially well in a 1 vs 1 hunt around a level.

[Aliotroph?]

I remember being able to shoot out just about all the lights in AvP. That was pretty fun. It would be a great feature in a DooM III DM map but you'd have to be careful to balance the gameplay to stop some really cheap tactics.

[iori]

Hehe, Like having a depot with tons of flourescent light tubes and a stepladder you can push around, so one can manually change the light fixtures.

[Krehator]

I'm not sure about scary but definately some anticipation and surprise in the darkness. I like it. Nothing like hearing that groan and running into a corner to grab yer flashlight and see wtf is coming. Then once you do get the spotlight on it, the damn thing is right on top of you!!! Fumble fumble.......AHHHHHHH come on you slow ass gun!

[Nemesis]

Meh...I don't do MP (I don't have a good enough connection) and it's nothing I'm gonna lose sleep over. Doom 3 is still exceptionally awesome. :)

[MasterOfPuppets]

the multiplayer is only ok. the lag is terrible, but at least it is consitent. not nearly as bad as Far Cry or Painkiller.

[Scarekrowe]

I love the dissapearing bodies. To me that's more of what demons would do. I also love the lighting and the textures, I think it's beautiful. Really, what's the heads matter? ID never promised anything other then it'll be scary. Which it is. Lights totally off, volume up. Maybe it's because I played so much of the original when I was younger, that it scares me. Cause I remember being scared of the first one. I don't see what the big deal about the scripted events is, I like them. I also think ID did a really good job of capturing the abandonment and hopelessness you'd feel in that situation. Specially sense you're just a marine, not anything that special. You're not a regular guy who has the hero with in or you're not a hardcore bad ass which is what it seems like a lot of games focus on as their main characters. In Doom you're just a marine following orders, you're trying to save yourself.

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

having a game being scripted doesnt really affect the game, it only shows the path to creating the engine. Doom 3 is an experience of its own, but hl2's source engine is probably going to be the one used the most by other developers.

[jls23]

I'm sick of people fawning over hl2. I have many complaints about Doom3, but I predict I shall have more about hl2. Just to enlighten everyone:

Everything you saw in those hl2 movies was scripted!!! The busting through the door, the falling stack of boards, it was all scripted! The HL2 characters are not that smart!!! No one mention how great half-life 2 looks compared to d3, and that goes double for farcry! They are not as good, so shutup!

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

I'm sick of people fawning over hl2. I have many complaints about Doom3, but I predict I shall have more about hl2. Just to enlighten everyone:

Everything you saw in those hl2 movies was scripted!!! The busting through the door, the falling stack of boards, it was all scripted! The HL2 characters are not that smart!

what proof do you have? have you played the beta? im also sick of d3 fanboys complaining that hl2 is dumb shit compared to d3. get me proof

[jls23]

I'm not a "fanboy" to any game. And if I said whether I've played the beta or not I could get a lot more attention payed to me than I'd like. HL2's hype CLEARLY exceeds it's capabilities even before it's released, and with doom 3 you couldn't tell until it got released. The only way, as I see it, that HL2 could be better, is that a lot of people expect a lot less from it.

[Scarekrowe]

having a game being scripted doesnt really affect the game, it only shows the path to creating the engine

I don't understand what you mean. Shows the path to creating the engine?

[ARMYguy]

The majority of hl2 is scripted, its very easy to tell when you watch the movies carfully. I hope those movies of the AI isnt the AI in the game, it reminds me of the first medal of honor, where they just stand there and shoot til they die. lol hl2 by itself is just like any other game like halo or doom 3, its not better, and in some cases, worse. I admit that having c-s source and day of defeat 2 in your corner only helps though, i love both games.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

lol hl2 by itself is just like any other game like halo or doom 3, its not better, and in some cases, worse.You wouldn't really know, not having played the finished article.

From the leak I played most stuff is scripted, which sucks. However, one of the few things which wasn't scripted is the AI, and with certain kinds of enemies it was actually pretty incredible how well they travelled around.

But who knows, these things may have changed by the time the game is actually released.

[jls23]

Actually I take back what I said. Half-Life 2 looks like a really cool game, but it still, in my eyes, sux compared to Doom3. The leak was actually released in russia as the full game, I wonder how they liked it. The leak was fun, but the Doom 3 a***a was much better. Graphicswise anyways, the hl2 one had a better feel to it, but the d3a was still better over-all.

[Caden]

I'm not a "fanboy" to any game. And if I said whether I've played the beta or not I could get a lot more attention payed to me than I'd like. HL2's hype CLEARLY exceeds it's capabilities even before it's released, and with doom 3 you couldn't tell until it got released. The only way, as I see it, that HL2 could be better, is that a lot of people expect a lot less from it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The physics engine is whats the coolest about it, and the materials.

[Wicked Anime Kid]

Every game has to be scripted to some extend.
People complaining about doom3 being scripted, it HAS to be scripted otherwise the models would just stand there looking good and not do a thing. Also like in-game scenes have to be scripted cause I don't think that someone would give an AI to a moving camera that suddenly decides to go and show off.... No, it has to be given when it starts, what co-ordinates and whatever.

HL2 is just like doom3, for the most part scripted.

[{TTr}Uber_soldat]

in a way, it may possibly matter whether a event is scripted or not, if the ai is good and there is no scripting, the ai may adjust to things happening differently. Pretend the ai was scripted to ambush you in the stairs, and instead of the stairs, you take the elevator, you could then shoot the ai in the back. but if it had good ai, and it wasnt scripted, the ai could hear the elevator, then come and attempt to attack you there.

[ARMYguy]

The supposedly good "unscriped" AI was in Far Cry. It didnt seem to be scriped in a lot of areas, and because of it, look at it. Enemies just sat there, being dumb asses, acting like robots that swear a lot, since they like to say, "im gonna open up a can of whoop ass on ya" every other minute. Scripted events ae much better with today's technological level of AI, meaning, AI isnt good enough yet.

[Doom_Dude]

The whole HL2 vs D3 thing is getting annoying.

[jls23]

Yea let's start with Doom vs. Far Cry shall we?

Let me start: Far Cry sux!!!!

[Mystic]

some folk are probably too stupid to be scared, that or they wont admit it in case you call them a pussy.

[Ninja_of_DooM]

The whole HL2 vs D3 thing is getting annoying.
I know, what's the deal with these people?
I agree Mystic. Some people are just dumb really.

Yea let's start with Doom vs. Far Cry shall we?
AhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaNO! Puuuulease.*rolleyes*

[Wouse101]

oh no! teh game is ruined because i cant break every light in every room and make the entire map totally dark.

do you have ANY IDEA the amount of noobie-ness you would get with that? people showing up in servers, breaking all the lights and leaving? no thank you.

yeh i think i'd agree there, i'd be like a new form of camping, but in darkness!