3D Baphomet Model

[Lord Kaizen]

How about a 3D model for Baphomet's face? He would be much, much cooler 3D rather than just a big picture on a wall. It could be made to replace Romero's head and be big enough to stick out and cover the entire wall. Plus it would be really neat if it was animated! *alien*

The only problem I see is that it wouldn't work well in custom maps because the direction and position of Romero's head wouldn't be the same. Two additional models would probably be needed for Final Doom because of this as well. It would just have to be set up so that it can be enabled and disabled from the add-ons tab.

[MasterOfPuppets]

i've thought about this a few times. the idea of replacing Romero's head seems alright for doom 2 at least. would be better if we could have the textures spawn a model via a .ded?

[Harry]

Yeah but the textures have to be layered if you know what I mean so, say if you do the horn texture there would be like 5 hornes sticking out

[Wicked Anime Kid]

i've thought about this a few times. the idea of replacing Romero's head seems alright for doom 2 at least. would be better if we could have the textures spawn a model via a .ded?
That would be something like a texture definition (like we have music and sound and leel definitions) and letting it have a 3d object.

[Chilvence]

I've wanted that for ages, that and some system of texture aliases. Its annoying to see the switches take up so much space....

[Kresjah]

It's a nice idea, and I would love to see a 3D Baphomet model, but if one use Romero's head to make it, it would still pose a problem on every usermade map. It would be a shame having to disable that model everytime you play a user-made map with the baphomet model, wouldn't it?

To be honest, I don't kknow if this is possible, but seeing as decorations were just 2D models, that were replaced with 3D models through a .ded, aren't there any way of replacing the walls with the baphomet texture with a 3D wall much the same (but not completely the same) way one did with decorations?

As I said, I'm not sure if it actually would work, but if it is possible to do it this way, it would be quite a but better than replacing Romero's head, considering the problems it would poze on some levels...

[DaniJ]

Yeah I already tried this and it would indeed look cool. I tried it with a huge Lost Soul. As mentioned it would only really be possible with model decorations (something Skyjake mentioned for 1.8 but will now wait till Hawthorn).

[Lord Kaizen]

Decoration models? Now that's something to look forward too!

But if you used a decoration model for Baphomet instead, the model wouldn't flinch when you hit it with a rocket, would it?

[Kresjah]

Just a pure theoretical question. If you disregard how much work it would require, it should be possible to replace walls based on a condition check where wall with texture = true then replace wall with certain 3D model? (I know that the condition check I'm talking about is extremely simplified, and that it would be a lot more complicated than that, but as I'm trying to speak in a language that should at least be fairly readable to mortals, then that's what I ended up with... and this is of course a pure theoretical question).

I guess that wouldn't exactly be of the highest priority for skyjake, but it would have been a nice addition to use in situations like these...

...then again, not being a programmer (just barely knowing the basics of programming), I don't know how hard it would be to implement this, not to mention if he would have to rearrange his whole code (which probably wouldn't be of interest).

[Guard.Dawg]

^ A friend of mine is working on that very thing right now. If I can get a hold of a version of it, I'll post it for all of you.

[Chilvence]

You mean displacement mapping, or actually replacing a given texture with a repeating model?? Displacement mapping would probably be a lot more reliable and fasterer, although it needs PS hardware.

[Kresjah]

chilvence: I don't know if it was me you were refering to, but if so, I'll try to make it clearer.

To be honest, I'm not sure of what you meant by displacement mapping (still a novice when it comes to graphics and programming technicals), but what I meant was something that did the same as and if tests, that tests if the wall has a certain texture (baphomet textures in this case), and replaces (preferably) the whole wall with a model, and resizes the model equally. Of course, running if tests for every single wall would make a hell of a lot of work for the machine, but it there was a more effective way of doing a similar check, would it be possible to replace the whole wall with a 3D model (determining angle based on the angle of the wall and which way the texture is placed)? Or would there be a better way to do it then replacing the wall with a 3D model?

The reasons I would prefer replacing the wall rather than Romero's head are because walls have an angle, while Romero's head doesn't, and also because the distance between the wall, and the actual placement of Romero's head may vary. As long as your rocket propels in the direct angle, you could place Romero's head a continent away... so let's say that Romero's head in one case IS a continent away, replacing it with a big 3D model wouldn't help, 'cause the 3D model wouldn't be long enough to reach "the end of the tunnel", so that it emerges out from the baphomet-textured wall. Not sure if I'm explaining this very well, but I hope you understand.

And one last thing... could you explain displacement mapping?

[Chilvence]

The proposed way of doing the model - textures is to define how a model gets attached to a texture using a ded. In this case, you would attach the model to the middle texture of the icon and it would be larger than the texture itself so as to cover the whole boss.

Displacement mapping, hrmm... Basically, if you imagine the way bumpmapping is done, with a simple black and white height map, and extend it so that each individual texel on a wall is shifted based on this heightmap in relation to the camera, you've basically got it. But I'm buggered if I'd know how to actually program it *grin*

[Guard.Dawg]

Far Cry supports displacement/offset mapping ... you should check it out to learn more.

Displacement Mapping in Far Cry (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/475/buddhaoffset3.jpg)
More (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3192/buddhaoffset2.jpg)

^ That's a completely flat surface *eek* ;)

[DaniJ]

Yeah offset displacement mapping is a quite a new technique (and quite simple in theory and implementation (in a flexible environment) from what I've heard). Offset displacement mapping would look stunning in Doomsday.

[Kresjah]

Ahh... now I understand. That would be a great feature. Has skyjake been thinking about implementing it sometime, or is this a soon-to-be feature request? :p

*Crossing his fingers of luck, hoping that it will come to the Doomsday Engine* :)

[The Undertaker]

Only the 6800 series supports it now and I don't think Skyjake going to spend $300. But there's always bump mapping.

[DaniJ]

Yeah I know. We'll just have to make do*casper*

Still at least we know bump mapping and T&L are being considered for Hawthorn.

[Guard.Dawg]

Guys you are wrong, you don't need a 6800 to do displacement mapping.

SM 2.0 supports the feature! As you know, all Direct X 9 cards have SM 2.0.

SM 3.0 only makes the process faster. So while bump-mapping is possible, so would disp/offset mapping!!

(if you dont believe me, get the offset test map for Far Cry and run it on anything but a 6800, it will work just fine!)

[MasterOfPuppets]

yup works fine.

[Xabora]

Dynamic branching - PS 2.0

http://esprit.campus.luth.se/~humus/3D/index.php

Download - With Source
http://esprit.campus.luth.se/~humus/3D/DynamicBranching.zip


Here's the effect woth PS 2.0

oh... and Hi! :)

[C e r b e r u s]

Nice idea indeed. *flip*

[Blizzardson]

Baphomet's face, so you mean icon of sin,i dthaugh some1 else made it in MD3 model i suggest befour this idea revived,i saw it on those fake doom3 pictures,whatever i saw it from. *book*

[Lord Kaizen]

Yep that's him, but Icon of Sin is just the level's name.

[jls23]

What about dynamic glow? I don't know anything about it, but it is apparently pretty easy. Check this out:

http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=tron1

[EazyCheeze]

Of course it's possible to remake the map with a custom model, then load it in as a replacement for MAP30.. but I understand the need to make everything as compatible with the original stuff as possible.