Carnage Galore Hexen

[Frost Shards]

There was a discussion starting in another thread
about Carnage Galore 3.
Figured would be nice to carry
it out into another thread: save moderators some work
and eliminate my remorse from posting offtopic posts ;)

This topic may well belong to "other doom ports" section,
and not welcomed here. But since the mod in question is a fork
of jHexen, I would leave that at discretion of moderators.

By the way, from what I heard, there's supposed to be a secret fifth weapon.

OMG, this guy is reading my mind! He got lots and lots of stuff
in his mod I have always wanted (except item dropping ;)),
like item purchasing and secret statistics, as well as more
evasive enemies.

Don't tell me the secret weapon for mage is Merlin sword,
or I'll start believing in ESP. :D

I haven't found it yet (I just got the emerald key which opens that big reflective barrier).

I'm still in the episode one. Played as Archmage, hard as hell.
Been advancing slowly and agonizingly.
Took me about three
days to get to that balcony in Rrducai, where you light torches.
That was the end of it, couldn't get past that balcony no matter what.

Decided to replay as Warlock. Still pretty hard. This time got to
the end of the hub. Took a sneak peak into the second hub...
Didn't like what I saw.
Both in terms of level design and enemy
opposition. So I said to myself "No way I'm going out of the first
hub without visiting the secret level!" So now I'm looking for that
elusive rusted key. Just don't give me hints please *crazy*

Also tried playing as Pope. DANG! Completed the hub in 5 hours!
Walk in the park.
An already blatantly overpowered Cleric has become ever more
overpowered! (with the addition of hellstaff)

[Event Horizon]

Took a sneak peak into the second hub...
Didn't like what I saw.
Both in terms of level design and enemy
opposition. So I said to myself "No way I'm going out of the first
hub without visiting the secret level!"
You're talking about the ice level, right? Well, it may be huge, hard, and rather empty, but it gets better. You get the third weapon there if you missed it in the first hub (it's in the secret level). I made it through the barrier and got a huge surprise. I'm in map 12 now, so it looks like I'm close to finishing the hub.
Also tried playing as Pope. DANG! Completed the hub in 5 hours!
Walk in the park.
An already blatantly overpowered Cleric has become ever more
overpowered! (with the addition of hellstaff)
I didn't think he was that overpowered, since with all that power comes greater mana usage. A couple of times I went nuts with the Hellstaff, only to end up using my remaining coins I've been for a refill. The Firestorm is the same way, but not quite as bad. However, it does quite a bit of damage to the ice enemies. I found that the easiest class was the fighter, with the mage a close second (although the mage's Frost Shards and Ice Clouds are useless against some of the enemies in the second hub, but that's where the powered up wand comes in).

[Frost Shards]

I didn't think he was that overpowered, since with all that power comes greater mana usage. A couple of times I went nuts with the Hellstaff, only to end up using my remaining coins I've been for a refill

Man, you must be playing a different game then, hehe. That
goes the same for me only with mage. With cleric I alctually
never bought mana and still was in excess of 300
every now and then.

For comparison, it takes 14 mana to kill
a serpent with hellstaff and 27 with frost shards. That is from
close distance. From far away the ratio is worse because
of the high dispersion of FS. At close range FS is also more
difficult to use because of lower firing rate (ie dodge and aim
at the same time).

He should've made every star take up 1 mana, as it is in Heretic,
not 0.5 mana.

edit: although on nightmare difficulty you get 50% more mana.
So that must have been the difference between you and me.

[Event Horizon]

That's what it was. In skill 5, those large mana gives you a whopping 75 mana, and the large combined mana (only available in the second hub and quite rare) gives you an astounding 90 blue and green mana (I think). The Hellstaff uses the same amount of mana as the Serpent Staff, except both shots aren't fired at the same time, and you can't sap health away from the enemy up close (the powered up mace does that).

[Frost Shards]

Got the key. Turned out I missed a portal on Othir.

One thing that REALLY pisses me off is that he proceeded
to weaken the arc of death to indecency. Good work dude,
robbed the mage of the only decent weapon, and the pride
of the whole game of hexen. Now the poor mage is completely
useless. U.S.E.L.E.S.S., I mean it. Good work.

[doomer]

Guys
This sounds good - can someone post a link where it can be downloaded from?
Thanks

[Event Horizon]

It's the same strength as it always was. It even seems to last a little longer (meaning that it does more damage before dissipating). However, some of the monsters have increased health, which may make it look like the Arc of Death is weaker. You must have gotten the Arc of Death on map 6, and immediately had to kill all of those brown Chaos Serpents. Those things are hard to kill regardless. I found that the powered up third weapon is enough to kill most enemies in one or two direct hits. It's especially effective against Centaurs and those pesky Shadow Wizards (almost always keeps then in their pain state, preventing them from disappearing until it wears off).

By the way, did you get the Wings of Wrath yet? You may want to use them before picking up the Heart of D'Sparil in the back. I found that out the hard way, heheh. I'm sure it's possible to get through that, but it's much easier to hover above all the confusion.

[Frost Shards]

doomer: fury.ravencommunity.net

Oh, yeah, I had wings at that point. (And thanked Korax I did :))

You're partially right.
I still think he did weaken it. Although not as much as I thought
before.

What the heck, let's ask him :)

[Event Horizon]

I just found the fifth weapon (and the Horn Key). I won't spoil it, but it's not the Merlin sword. Still, it's worth the battle I had to fight in order to get it, and it's insanely powerful when you use the Tome of Power on it. I should know, I got hit with one of those blasts in that battle. It may not look as nice as the Unmaker, but it's got it where it counts.

Here's a hint: this is where you use the Heart of D'Sparil you found in the Treasure Vaults.

[Frost Shards]

Ok, thanks. That's what I thought about heart of d'sparil.

[Event Horizon]

After playing it through as a mage (I tried fighter first), I think I can safely say that the Arc of Death hasn't been weakened at all. It still kills many enemies in one or two shots, and some of the stronger ones take around three or four. It does has a little trouble with the Frost Lich, in places with a very high ceiling (i.e. in the first part of map 7), and in narrow corridors and caves where it tends to hit a wall, which immediately stops the attack. It was like that in the original Hexen though. Trying to kill Slaughtaurs, etc. with the Arc of Death in maps like Wasteland, Caves of Circe, Forsaken Outpost, and the chapels of the third hub (not so much the Dragon Chapel though) was just plain annoying.

[Frost Shards]

Sure as hell it has been. Not only that, but I now know
precicesly WHY it has been weakened. Try the following:

take the unmodified jHexen (a recent version from
doomsdayHQ, for example).

Launch a new network game with the following parameters:

map: 6 bright crucible
skill: easy
deathmatch: yes
monsters: yes
random classes: no
damage mod: 1
health mod: 20

As you spawn, immedeately to your left will be arc of death.
Now try it on some monsters nearby... Notice anything? :)

[Event Horizon]

In the original Hexen, the brown Chaos Serpents have a health around 200-300, but in this game, their health is around 1000. Each hit from the fighter's axe does around 100 damage, so it's a reasonable indicator of how strong an enemy is. In the original, it takes three hits to kill either Chaos Serpent, while here it takes 6 hits to kill the green one, and over 10 to kill the brown one. The Sabreclaw seems to be about the same health as the Ettin, and both the axe and Arc of Death affect them the same. Same with the Reivers. Also, it takes four hammer shots to kill the green Chaos Serpents and five or six for the brown ones instead of just two in the original.

Besides, Hexen was a bit too easy anyway. I guess I could always ask (didn't get around to it before, heh).

[Frost Shards]

You didn't follow my recipe, i take it :( If you did you would
see exactly my point.

[Event Horizon]

I can't right now. I don't have access to my computer at home.

[Frost Shards]

I can't right now. I don't have access to my computer at home. np In the original Hexen, the brown Chaos Serpents have a health around 200-300, but in this game, their health is around 1000. And I have absolutely no problem with that :) On the contrary, I like stronger enemies, because they give more value
to porkelators and banishment devices :)

The problem that I'm having is that mage all of a sudden
became unbearably weak as compared to other classes.
Playing as mage on hard difficulty is a draconian toil.
Reloading each savegame ten times. Running out of mana.

Playing as Cleric on _nightmare_ is a walk in the park.
Barely ever reloaded a saved game. Unused mana lying around
everywhere.

Arc of death has sooo many weaknesses already:
Slow moving,
deviates from straight path. Hard to hit from far away.
Really hard to hit flyers from midrange.
Takes a lot of mana, if you miss--it's wasted.
Kills slowly. And of course, as you said, it's unusable in tight places.

That's why it's supposed that a single hit
is deadly _at least_ for most flyers. Now it takes
3 hits to kill an ice gargoyle... given that 1 out of every
3 shots miss.
To oversome that you have to fight close by.
Mage becomes a melee character.
What's the difference then between mage and fighter?
Answer: Less armor.

[Abrax]

I found the mod quite easy, puzzle wize, the only things I find a challenge are the Skull Wizards. I completed the first hub, including the secret map (where you find the heart of D'Sparil) in just over two hours, on Skill 3.

As I'm playing as the Cleric (still in hub 2 at the min), I find the Hellstaff infuriating, purely because of the fact that most enemies dodge it = meaning waste of mana = temper (but not tantrum :) )

I would rather have the Serpent Staff back anyday, although I have found that the Firestorm is pathetic compared to how it was in Hexen, the only way to get the desireablr result out of it is to power it up, but tomes are hard to come by (even though I currently have 9 silver coins and nothing seems to catch my eye (fletchettes, discs of repulsion, Bah))

I started off playing as the mage, but got fed up with the pathetic FS (although I usually play as the mage, I never actually use them, because i like to leave physical eveidence that I've been there). Although I'm no Hexen god, I am actually finding the mod quite easy, up to the bit where I am now.

Which hub is the secret weapon found? PM if you don't want to spoil it for anyone else.

[Event Horizon]

After playing that network mode, I saw how long it takes to kill even the simplest enemies. Now that's overkill.

Anyway, as for the Arc of Death, after asking him, I found that it wasn't weakened at all. The Ice Gargoyles have a bit of a resistance built into them. They are as strong as the green gargoyles, but they are slightly more tolerant of anything that isn't fire based, and ice does nothing. Since the mage doesn't have any fire based weapons at this point, I can see how it can be frustrating. He also said that he would experiment with the settings and make it easier for the mage (maybe give less of a resistance to lightning weapons and give ice based weapons some power against them). The Devil is set up like that (some resistance to fire, none for anything else, and ice does more damage). Hopefully, a minor patch will be released in a couple of days.

Anyway, here's a list he gave me of most of the monsters in the first two hubs and their health amounts for both games:


Ettin - 175 Sabreclaw - 180
Afrit - 80 Gargoyle - 300
Venom Gargoyle - 500
Ice Gargoyle - 500
Devil - 800
Chaos Serpent - 250 Chaos Serpent - 600
Brown Chaos Serpent - 250 Chaos Mutant - 1000
Centaur - 200 Magic Centaur - 350
Slaughtaur - 250 Flame Centaur - 500
Dark Bishop - 130 Disciple of D'Sparil - 350
Reiver - 150 Sidhe - 200

Stalker - 90
Stalker Leader - 90

Death Wyvern - 640 Death Wyvern - 1200

MT_LIGHTNING_CEILING MT_LIGHTNING_CEILING
spawnhealth - 144 spawnhealth - 144
damage - 8 damage - 8
MT_LIGHTNING_FLOOR MT_LIGHTNING_FLOOR
spawnhealth - 144 spawnhealth - 144
damage - 8 damage - 8
MT_LIGHTNING_ZAP MT_LIGHTNING_ZAP
spawnhealth - 1000 spawnhealth - 1000
damage - 2 damage - 2

As you can see, the weapon hasn't been changed at all (the spawnhealth - 144 determines how long it lasts). Only the monsters' health has been increased.

The Firestorm actually has been increased slightly. It goes further and the fire rotates around a slightly smaller circle, which causes more damage. For example, play normal Hexen (or JHexen), use the weapons cheat and find a destructible tree (map 1 has some). Shoot the firestorm at it and you'll see that many times it doesn't even destroy it on the first try, and the fire just rotates around it harmlessly. The same goes with the Centaurs. The firestorm was almost completely useless against them for the same reason. Now open up Fury's JHexen and try the same thing in map 2. The tree is destroyed instantly every time. It's also very effective against Centaurs. I'm not sure, but I think it even does a little more damage.

[Frost Shards]

I completed the first hub, including the secret map (where you find the heart of D'Sparil) in just over two hours, on Skill 3.

As I'm playing as the Cleric

Exactly, exactly. I completed it on skill 4 in 5 hours as Cleric.
That char has become little too good. I found it impossible
to complete first hub on skill 4 as a mage.

After playing that network mode, I saw how long it takes to kill even the simplest enemies. Now that's overkill.

That's what I wanted to show you. In the original,
it takes one hit to kill any
basic enemy, even if you give them 20x health.

As you can see, the weapon hasn't been changed at all (the spawnhealth - 144 determines how long it lasts). Only the monsters' health has been increased

Now that's weird. It seems now like network mode is different in
some way.

The Firestorm actually has been increased slightly. It goes further and the fire rotates around a slightly smaller circle, which causes more damage.

And that's unfair! He proceeded to improve not one, but two
of the cleric's weapons. I understand introducing hellstaff,
because it saved him some work on the Tome of Power,
that's perfectly allright. But cleric was overpowered
ALREADY, before any modifications. Why not improve other
classes as well?

For example, play normal Hexen (or JHexen), use the weapons cheat and find a destructible tree (map 1 has some). Shoot the firestorm at it and you'll see that many times it doesn't even destroy it on the first try, and the fire just rotates around it harmlessly.

I understand what you say... But firestorm is meant against moving, not stationary targets. Packed, not standalone targets.

You gave an example with trees. Here's a counter example,
with the same trees. Go to map ?? darkmere (2 hub). In the
beginning there is a row of trees. Shoot ONCE. See? This is
because firestorm is meant for 2-3 enemies standing close
by (like serpents).

Same with moving targets. A walking or flying monster will
actaully step on one of the flame tongues radiating from the
center.

same goes with the Centaurs. The firestorm was almost completely useless against them for the same reason. Yes, it is useless against centaurs. Serpent staff is
even more useless against centaurs. So what? Rockets are
useless against shamblers. Nails are useless against
zombies. It is a basic rule of games, that something is useless
against somebody :p Cleric has got bottles. One bottle
completely neutralizes and then kills 2 centaurs on average.
A well placed bottle kills 5.

Even firestorm, when you manage to collect a crowd of
centaurs, is very effective. You can't be everything for everybody
in every single weapon. That would be boring. That's what
we have different weapons for, and different classes.

As I perceive it, there was a subtle balance between AOD and
Firestorm in the original

AOD : Firestorm

damage/mana is high : damage/mana is low
damage/time is low : damage/time is high

hard to hit : easy to hit
one hit deadly : multiple hits to kill

standalone targets : packed targets
stationary targets : moving targets

I'm not saying he has to stick with this, he is an artist after all,
it's his artistic decision that counts. But he has to compensate
with something. He also said that he would experiment with the settings and make it easier for the mage That's good news. And hey, bring him on this board!
Here's a first class feedback for his work.

[doomer]

This is a great mod . If you guys know the maker - can you sak him if it's possible to upgrade it to work with the latest doomsday instead of the older one it's packaged with?

[Vermil]

Here's Ichor's thread on Carnage Galore on DW. He's banned from posting here.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21782

In it, he says he intends to finish the mod completly before updating it for newer versions of Doomsday.

[Frost Shards]

He's banned from posting here, Wha wha wha what???? Banned from here? Is he banned from newdoom.com, or just from Doomsday? Gee, I better stop
discussing his mod, or I'll get banned too.

[Vermil]

So he posts on DW. Probably best not to discuss it though (the banning I mean, not the mod which IMO is great).

[Vermil]

EDIT: Original contents no longer nesscerry, thankfully :)

[Vermil]

Stil as proved ealier in the thread, Ichor seems friendly enough to answer any questions us NewDoomers come up with, regardless of his banning.

Can anyone provide some "hints" about accessing the secret level on the 1st hub? I'm the end of it (after having to replay it due to lost savegames *angry* *bliss* ), but I'd like to get the heart before I move on. It'd be a shame to miss out on a chance to get the 5th weapon on the second hub...

[Event Horizon]

It's not that hard, but it does involve some walking around. First, find the silver key in map 5. Then go upstairs to the silver doors (there's some silver doors down in the basement. Don't go there yet). Inside that room is a silver coin. Get the coin and head back to map 1. Use the coin to get the Yorick's Skull and use it on that headless statue. From there, you should be able to find the secret map.

I will say this: get the Wings of Wrath on map 2 just before going to the secret map. They aren't necessary to complete the map, but it makes some parts a whole lot easier.

[Vermil]

Thanks for the info Event Horizon.

I wondered why Yoricks skull was on sale when I started. Then I noticed a couple of headless statues later on. But still it didn't click (D'oh) until your help.

With the heart, it's on to Hub 2...

[Frost Shards]

I think, risking to be wrong again, that this game has
dead-ends. If it has, it's obviously not a bug, because
it's too obvious to be missed as a bug.

If you don't visit the secret level on first hub, you don't
have the Heart. Consequently, you cannot complete
the hub 2, because the Heart is required to advance
in game. Therefore, the "secret" level on hub 1 is
not a secret level at all.

Next, if you let's say first install the Yorick's skull
in the first town (forgot the name) and THEN
install one in Rrducai, you will not get another
skull. Therefore you're stuck. So it also matters
in what sequence you install the skulls.

[Vermil]

I've just done some tests with the
Yorick Skulls and it seems that the
location each portal that opens, goes
to is not preset.

The portal that opens in the town where
you place the first skull always leads to
the room in the basement of the
Haunted Castle containing another skull.

The portal that opens in the town you
place the second skull always opens leads
to the room on the middle floor of the
castle containing another skull

And the portal that opens in the town you
place third skull always takes you to the
room on the upper floor containing the
Rusted Key.

That's some impressive scripting by Ichor.

As for the Heart, that is interesting...

[Frost Shards]

Hmmm. That was not like this for me. For me the secret level
actually became unaccessible, so I had to replay from the
beginning to get there.

[Vermil]

Strange, in my tests the secret level never became inacessible. What I wrote happened. I've just done some more runs and it's still the case for me.

To test the heart thoery someone would have to run around Hub2 picking up the required items...

[Event Horizon]

I know this topic is rather old, but...

I just finished going through the first and second hubs again, this time skipping the secret map. The battle with those Blood Liches at the end of map 5 was a lot harder, since you only had the second weapon, but after a couple of tries, I managed to beat them. Then I played through all of the second hub without the Heart of D'Sparil. Everything was the same until map 9, when I noticed that the message was different when I picked up that book. Also, there was no Vial of Mysterious Liquid in the lab. Everything still functioned like normal though. Things were different in map 11 as well. In place of the Ritual Chalice, there was a Boots of Speed (they weren't there on that tomb near the library). I still didn't know what to expect. Now then, map 12. I made it down to the lowest depths. In that big room there, I saw the pedestal where the Heart of D'Sparil was to be placed, but D'Sparil's body was not there. Instead, monsters teleported in (including more of those #$%!#$ red Chaos Serpents). After a minute or so, the pillar where the horn key lowered and I was able to leave like before.

So, it is possible to beat the second hub without going through map 6, but you won't be able to fight D'Sparil or use his weapon. A marvellous feat of scripting indeed.

[Silencer]

Strange thing, but I checked http://fury.ravencommunity.net/ earlier this week and all but one of the Carnage Galore III files have been taken off the server. The only download left is the second hub. Does anyone know what's going on, or if they've been moved?

[Vermil]

Silencer: The 2nd Hub zip contains everything from the old CGIII downloads (the first hub and it's patch), so my guess is that they were taken down because they weren’t necessary anymore.

Event Horizon: yeah, that is some impressive scripting. I wonder if theres going to be any more similar secrets on later hubs.

[Silencer]

OK thanks. I'll check it out.

[Silencer]

I have a strategy for beating D'Sparil which works pretty well:

The first thing you'll want to do is clear the Disciples out of the room without harming the Magma Serpents if possible. The reason is so that you can Charm them, starting with the closest one and then the ones in the corners. If a Charm fails, reload and try again. Once all three are on your side, get the secret and go around the room and gather your items.

Now perform the ritual as usual, but save before you place the Heart. You might notice that you can beat on D'Sparil's deflated body, but I don't think it does any good until he's actually revived. Now if you're a cleric, drop 5 Flechettes on each side of his body right before you place the heart. Regardless once you place the Heart, quickly use a Chaos Device! You'll appear at the exit to Undercroft, but then be rudely teleported back to the lava room.

Walk up to the barriers and use them to lower them. By now your Magma Serpents should have whacked down D'Sparil's reinforcements and started in on him, which means he'll be attacking them. Try to get him to focus on you instead by shooting him from the stairway. Don't enter the room or the barriers will go back up. Just stay in the stairway and hit him from there. If he summons Disciples, try to lure them upstairs so you can collect whatever they drop.

When D'Sparil is weakened, two things will happen. First, one of each type of Lich will appear, and second he'll switch to his powered up attack. The Liches are actually more of a threat to you right now, so switch your attention to them. By the time they go down D'Sparil should be near death, so finish him off if your Magma Serpents haven't already. I was able to waste him in just a couple of minutes this way. The downside is that you don't get to "farm" the Disciples for items.

[Event Horizon]

I did something slightly different. First, I only charmed the one Magma Serpent walking around. The other two I either banished or turned to pigs. This way, they cannot be resurrected later on. Once I place the gem and D'Sparil is revived, I use the Tome of Power and Time Stop, and fire as many shots of the third weapon (and maybe throw in a few Fire Waves) until the spell wears off. This will give you a huge head start. Sometimes I'd use another one while the Tome of Power is still active. By then, he will be weak enough to change his attack. Otherwise, I'd just collect some mana and continue killing everything.

Once the Liches appear, things can get out of control real fast. By the time they are destroyed, there's usually quite a few enemies flying around, and the deadMagma Serpent that I charmed has been resurrected and the charm spell broken (you're the target again). Before I can concentrate on D'Sparil, I have to clear the room out. Another Time Stop would work, but I'd rather save them for later, so I fire a few Porkelators and Banishment. Another idea is to just let D'Sparil wipe them out with that main attack of his. I have at least two Kraters of Might by now, so mana isn't a problem. When he finally dies, I pick up his weapon, finish off what's left and prepare for a battle that may easily be just as hard as the one I just fought (and a fiendish puzzle for the unobservant).

[SpawnofCheese]

This mod sounds good where might I get it?

[Ben2k9]

http://fury.ravencommunity.net/

[AcidGlow]

Website is gone. Does anyone have the last version of Carnage Galore?

[Ton80]

ftp://archives.3dgamers.com/pub/idgames/levels/hexen/d-f/
http://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames/levels/hexen/d-f/fury_ch2.zip
http://www.downloads.orcishweb.com/fury/game/
It's named furych2.zip. I'm not sure if this is the one you are looking for.


Current search of threads that Ichor's been recently posting in. He is the author.
http://ravenforums.com/search.php?search_author=Ichor&sid=0185e90c04e0ae667fe795f2499e094e

[AcidGlow]

Niiiice. Thankx man. :)

[mvm199]

R_TextureNumForName: ICYMTN not found

i keep getting this error when i run both furygl and furyd3d. can anyone help me please?