Graphical effects

[Carma]

Yesterday I've changed my graphic card from GF2 Pro 64M to GF3 Ti200 64M and I've noticed that in games added reflections effects in some places And I have again paid attention that in DoomsDay the graphic is not so alive as in other games as for me
And even all that hi-res models skins textures particle effects can't make it go away

I think that in game water must be water not just floor with animated texture
Room after battle must be not only with dead bodies

Now weapons have metal reflections on them butwe have walls with metal texture, they must be with reflections too & all other things

And last word about particles
All these DoomLights are good things, but when light point is butoon is very small I'm starting thinking how to disable that light Then what wiil be to textures with lights & grates?

PS: It was so hard for me to write this post (my english is so bad)*book*

[XeroTrace AKA sigmst]

shaders.

[Carma]

Not only shaders
Bump & Gloss maps
Especially water & walls

[XeroTrace AKA sigmst]

we need mirrors too! zdoomgl has them. ( or just zdoom or doom gl? dunno)

[Chilvence]

http://timmie.squabble.org/screenshots/zdoomgl_42.jpg

[Carma]

Other question how to implement all that things & who can

For example - I know simply structure of DDay & all I can do now it's connect required files correctly and all

[XeroTrace AKA sigmst]

offset BM.

[CheapAlert]

You can't have bump/gloss/ppl in Doom engines ya know, though pixelshaded reflection water is a possibility...

[Carma]

Shaders

Do You know what problems when using them it can raise?

Big slowdowns if compiled for different graphic cards & shader versions

[Tyberious]

don't worry, 1.8 and 2.0 will offer vast quality and speed upgrades when it comes to engine speed and quality. I think we have it good now though.

rememebr, the wait has always been worth it, skyjake has managed to pull doom up by its boot straps, brush it off and make it better as one of the source port creators. I salute and respect him.

[Carma]

I mean that Dani want's shaders, that right, but for which card that will be written?

Some day's ago I've obtained(at least) GeForce 3 and now I can see all that things if they will be released

But, if shader rogram will be compiled for ATi cards I'll get smaller speed on my card than on ATi's

[Hexagon]

First, sorry but you can not compare the DooMsday engine with another Game engine (Commercial or non-commercial), it has been written on the core of the classical DooM source not from scratch... ...so it inherit a lot of its limitations....

This little problems of shaders will be fixed with the Open GL 2.0 i think ... (and actually, my GFX card doesn't have usage of them.... ..so....)

A lot of great things have already made by Skyjake (3d models, 3d HUDs, high-res textures, XG, infine & particles,fakeradio ......) so i'm already happy with it.... ....just have to be patient....

[Deathgiver]

I mean that Dani want's shaders, that right, but for which card that will be written?

Some day's ago I've obtained(at least) GeForce 3 and now I can see all that things if they will be released

But, if shader rogram will be compiled for ATi cards I'll get smaller speed on my card than on ATi's

Skyjake himself uses an nvidia card so I don't think you need to worry.

[Carma]

Which card uses Dani?

[DaniJ]

I've only got a GF4 440SE crappy I know but it at least makes me spend more time on optimizing the jDRP :D

I think I'm gonna get a new card, I'll definetly be sticking with NVIDA.

[Sambo9000]

PS: It was so hard for me to write this post (my english is so bad)
I thought you did really well.

[The Undertaker]

Aren't shaders (or fragment programs in GL) compiled by the driver in real time (unless precomplied shaders are used to increase performance by "optimizing"). The Forceware drivers increased DX9 performance by improving the compiler.

[Carma]

I thought you did really well.

I'm trying

About theme
Why only shaders?
What about old cards?
Dreams about DDay with new effects on old MX cards are gone?
What about that mappings & other things? there is nothing else to use?

[Slide]

Why only shaders?
What about old cards?

Hang on - we haven't even got them yet!

[Carma]

Hang on - we haven't even got them yet!

???
What do you mean?
You are ATi's?

Anyway what about other peoples who have them & more older cards?

Because SkyJake tolds that he found one thing in rendering engine that improves speed And I belive with that thing even on old cards it is possible to play with all that things

[Slide]

I was saying that Doomsday doesn't use any of this stuff yet - and the engine tends to allow for everything to be turned on and off for performance.

Let's see what Skyjake can come up with.

[timmie]

note that the shaders we're talking about are more like texture scripts, NOT vertex/pixel shaders. I really dislike DirectX's decision to call them shaders rather than vertex/fragment programs like they're called in OpenGL (much more clear, imo).

The shaders we'd have in Doomsday would be like the shaders in Quake3. Whether or not those use vertex/fragment programs is up to skyJake. I don't use any of that stuff in ZDoomGL yet, it's all just done with multiple passes so it should work with virtually any card.

And CheapAlert, you could have that bump/gloss/ppl in Doom if you wanted. Just use the sector lighting as the ambient pass and then do all the fancy stuff on the dynamic lights in the scene.

[DaniJ]

note that the shaders we're talking about are more like texture scripts, NOT vertex/pixel shaders. I really dislike DirectX's decision to call them shaders rather than vertex/fragment programs like they're called in OpenGL (much more clear, imo).
Agreed!

Anybody remember the old fire effects people used to make in QBASIC? Well pixel shaders are basically the same thing except done directly in your frame buffer.

Quake3 shaders are as timmie said - little scripts to define what happens to the textures that are wrapped onto the model/wall etc. So for instance the spinning discs and jumpad effects etc are all done with shaders. They can also be used for faking other effects.

Has anyone played Tron 2? It's definetly got the trade mark tron look volumetric lighting. How they do it is quite complex (they had to get both NVIDA and ATI to work on it with them).

If anyones interested it works like this:
For every normal frame rendered a second one is produced in the frame buffer. Except in this second render they turn off all the lighting and change all the textures to a set of pre made (mainly black&white) ones. They then apply a gaussian blur to this second frame (via a pixel shader program) and then blend it in over the top of the normal render, and the result is one of the most distinctive graphic styles I've seen in a long time.

[Carma]

About Tron 2.0
I've played this game on DX7 cards and later after upgrade completed game on DX8 cards
I haven't seen any changes in pictures

About OpenGL 2.0
When at least it will be released
And how much time will be required for SkyJake to implement support? Think about that

[Hexagon]

About OpenGL 2.0
When at least it will be released
And how much time will be required for SkyJake to implement support? Think about that

I don't think they will change OPEN GL standart syntax, they would keep compatibility, it's not DX ..... GL Code Update would be minimal...

[Carma]

I knew this
But aboutshaders versions ...