Demon fights

[FATAL]

Post here interesting demon fights to occur, ie. 20 hell barons vs cyber demon. Then let others speculate how the battle would end.

First I would add here the first fight.

Let's say, 1 imp vs 1 lost soul

In my opinion the result of this fight is random. Probably lost soul would lose most of the fights, but still he has some chances.

Here's some things i've noticed during REAL imp vs lost soul fights.
Every time the lost soul charges against the imp, the imp might throw a fireball and stay undamaged. then again, if the lost soul gets to melee then i'd say the imp is history, the charge is so powerful.

BTW these fights occur in ultra violence. So monster attack more often than, for example, in "hey, not too rough" -difficulty.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Post here interesting demon fights to occur, ie. 20 hell barons vs cyber demon. Then let others speculate how the battle would end.

First I would add here the first fight.

Let's say, 1 imp vs 1 lost soul

In my opinion the result of this fight is random. Probably lost soul would lose most of the fights, but still he has some chances.

Here's some things i've noticed during REAL imp vs lost soul fights.
Every time the lost soul charges against the imp, the imp might throw a fireball and stay undamaged. then again, if the lost soul gets to melee then i'd say the imp is history, the charge is so powerful.

BTW these fights occur in ultra violence. So monster attack more often than, for example, in "hey, not too rough" -difficulty.

Heh, I almost feel like scripting a monster vs. monster map for Legacy.

[Chilvence]

Why not go one better and do genre wars in ZDoom - Hellspawn vs. Heretics :)

[FATAL]

I've thought about heretic's monsters vs. doom's demons and I think that heretic's monsters would win that match. The boss is so über 1337 in heretic. The basic red devil in heretic is much stronger than the zombie in DooM.
Same thing with more advanced monsters.

[Chilvence]

Ive been thinking of a making a novelty wad where the doom and heretic monsters run into an arena and slaughter each other - a sort of doom colisseum I guess

Using a script to intelligently replace/reduce their ranks, the result would be a perpetual fight where one team would gain some ground, then be fought back.

Only I havent got around to it...

[ToXiCFLUFF]

Ive been thinking of a making a novelty wad where the doom and heretic monsters run into an arena and slaughter each other - a sort of doom colisseum I guess

Using a script to intelligently replace/reduce their ranks, the result would be a perpetual fight where one team would gain some ground, then be fought back.

Only I havent got around to it... Do it Do it! This is also possible in Legacy - you can use and set Heretic things, codepointers and flags.

[Chilvence]

"Trouble is, I dont even know how to make the nose...."

Nah just kidding. I know roughly how to do it with zdoom. Legacy I have no clue about, so I wouldnt want to learn fragglescript and everything just for a joke map.

I just have to wait until I'm bored enough to slap it together :) (<---see title)

[Sickpuppy]

ok matchups usually occur like this:

Zombie vs anything loses
Shotgun Guy loses to most except vs zombie
Chiaingun dude wastes: Imps, Shotgun Guys, Zombies, Demons. Possible kills are revenants, cacodemons, Mancubus and even Arachnotrons if chaingun fires stuns any of them and prevents return fire.
Imps waste zombies, most of the times shotgun guys, and rarely chaingun dudes.
Demons/Spectres waste Imps, Zombies, Shotgun guys. Rarely do they kill a chaingun dude.
Revenants waste everything a chaingun dude can. Most times they waste a chaingun dude, lose most times to Cacodemons.
Cacodemons waste Imps, Demons/Spectres, Zombies, Shotgun guys, most of the time revenants, occasionally chaingun dudes.
Lost Souls waste zombies and usually shotgun guys, but have a hard time killing Imps and anything else.
Hell Knights waste all things Cacodemons can including Revenants. Occastionally kills mancubus if it corners one.
Arachnotrons waste most things in the game, including Mancubus, Hell Knights. Will waste Barons of Hell at range but will lose if cornered by one.
Mancubus will waste most things, but will lose to Baron of Hell most times or Arachnotron.
Baron of Hell, the baddest of the non-bosses, will waste everything beneath him thats not a boss except an Arachnotron whom of which he needs to corner.
SpiderMasterMind, will waste CyberDemon everytime at close ranges but is toast from a distance. Everything else is canon-fodder.
CyberDemon only has one threat, the Doom Marine, especially one with a Rocket Launcher or BFG. Most of the time will destroy the SpiderMasterMind if he keeps his distance.
Arch-Vile, not the strongest but is actually at the top of the chain, can kill ANYTHING, his attacks dont spark retaliation so he will continue to toss enemies into the air until they die. If enemies did retaliate however, would lose to CyberDemon, SpiderMastermind, Arachnotron, Baron of Hell. A closer matchup would be Mancubus or Hell Knight but should win over both of these.

[FATAL]

Very nice! Are those just estimates or tested stuff? Maybe both?

[Sickpuppy]

A bit of both, I've tested scenarios before. Long time gaming experience gives me a pretty comprehensive idea of each monster characteristics and behaviour. All of the above were based on Doom1/2 in Ultra Violence mode.

If was to use Nightmare or the -fast monsters tag the result would be different.

For instance, a demon's speed and attack rate is increased by doubled in nightmare, meaning it has a better chance to charge an opponent and land an attack. Monsters disadvantaged in NM usually are the Arachnotron and SpiderMasterMind as their rate of fire cant be sped up any faster then what it already is.

[GreatWasabi]

The best fight has to be the Cyberdemon versus the Spider Mastermind. So funny. I usually stand behind the SM and use him as a shield while lobbing rockets at the Cyberdemon.

You guys should play this crazy ass wad...it rules.

http://www.areyep.com/Cyber3.zip

[FATAL]

One word: CRAZY

[BetoTheDestroyer]

6 cacodemons vs 2 baron of hells.*angry*

[FATAL]

I'm quite sure that cacos would kick barons' ass in that fight. Barons might still have some chances against cacos!

How's about 2 barons vs. 5 revenants?

[BetoTheDestroyer]

hmm what range?



heres another Revenant vs cacodemon. i think there tied ive seen cacos win and ive seen revenants wint that fight.

[BetoTheDestroyer]

barons will beat most demons at close range.Even mancubus and arachnotrons will lost to a Barons arm scratch.From long range though its a different story.

[FATAL]

Please use edit button instead of doubleposting.

Oh, and here's one: 4 imps vs. 1 caco!
Range 300 units. Check some editor to know how much that would be.

[Crono]

5 Formerhumans vs 1 Barrel

That is strange...
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[Crono]

5 Formerhumans vs 1 Barrel

[The Mastermind]

In reply to #1, the lost soul would totally own the imp. 2 imps, and it has no chance.

Originally posted by Chilvence:
Ive been thinking of a making a novelty wad where the doom and heretic monsters run into an arena and slaughter each other - a sort of doom colisseum I guess

You could set up sort of an army rank system. You know, where the Spider Mastermind has preference over everybody else. Just kidding. But seriously, I haven't played Heretic, are there many big monsters in it that can honestly compete with the likes of a Cyberdemon and the Spider Mastermind?

[HyperFlash]

Heh, I almost feel like scripting a monster vs. monster map for Legacy.

I had an idea for a WWE wad where a monster comes out into a ring and awaits his opponent. There would be all sorts of matches but I've never got around to do it cuz I don't know crap about map editting.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

But seriously, I haven't played Heretic, are there many big monsters in it that can honestly compete with the likes of a Cyberdemon and the Spider Mastermind? I wouldn't say there's any bosses as good. Although the teacups (I'm being serious) in Heretic's first episode boss map were pretty memorable.

[Chilvence]

But seriously, I haven't played Heretic, are there many big monsters in it that can honestly compete with the likes of a Cyberdemon and the Spider Mastermind?

Well thats the thing, Heretic might have used different amounts of damage, or different tactics to make a monster powerful, so the Doom enemies would have to be hacked (strenghtened or weakened, I dont know) to have an intresting fight. The bosses in Heretic I would say are more difficult to battle, but that situation might change in a monster v monster scenario.

If I am going to make it, I wouldnt include the sprites, it would be a total waste. I would put some instructions or a batch file to make the sprite wad with deutex (it is actually a simple process)

[BetoTheDestroyer]

2 cyberdemons vs 2 of everyother monster(excluding archvile since he cant be attacked)also only 1 spidermastermind.

[FATAL]

BetoTheDestroyer, that would be a pretty quick match. Cyberdemons would kick some arse in that fight.

[HyperFlash]

How about some of those SS soldiers vs. a group of shotgunners.

[BetoTheDestroyer]

Shot gunners will slaughter them nazis.How about 3 arachnotrons vs 5 mancubuses long range.

[HyperFlash]

I don't think Shotgunners can slaughter the nazies. The nazies shotguns are auotmatic. Plus they're a little harder to kill.

[ToXiCFLUFF]

I don't think Shotgunners can slaughter the nazies. The nazies shotguns are auotmatic. Plus they're a little harder to kill. I'm with you on that.

[BetoTheDestroyer]

If you turn on Fast Monsters then they will.

[Ben2k9]

you can get the archvile to be retaliated using Dehacked. Hes actually pretty piss poor and even a hell knight can kill him.

[devilofdoom]

How come you can't get two of the same kind of monster to fight each other cause ive had shit loads of imps everywhare hitting each other and the ones that get hit dont fight back.

[Cyrulik]

Shot gunners will slaughter them nazis.How about 3 arachnotrons vs 5 mancubuses long range.

arachnotrons hands down... the freakin mancubuses cant hit the broad side of a barn! at least the arachnotrons can shoot straight!

[Doom4Ever]

How come you can't get two of the same kind of monster to fight each other cause ive had shit loads of imps everywhare hitting each other and the ones that get hit dont fight back.

Yeah id like to knwo that also
they IMPS never fight each other...
id like to see some IMPS roast each other with
some fireballs...*burn*

[The Undertaker]

Because all demons are immune to their own projectiles, bullets are fair game.

[Sickpuppy]

How come you can't get two of the same kind of monster to fight each other cause ive had shit loads of imps everywhare hitting each other and the ones that get hit dont fight back.

Try using dehacked/wacked to flag the monsters in-fight tag. That will get even Cyberdemons fighting each other, however legacy doesnt support this option so you'll need to use either Doom95 or another compatible port.

[Ledmeister]

How come you can't get two of the same kind of monster to fight each other cause ive had shit loads of imps everywhare hitting each other and the ones that get hit dont fight back. You can get many monster types to fight with their own kind if the barrel bug comes into play. In old versions of Doom, monsters will even attack themselves because of the bug.
For demos of Imps, Barons, Cacodemons, Revenants killing their own kind (plus some other oddities):
http://classicdoom.com/odddemos.htm
Some monsters attacking themselves (requires Doom v1.1):
http://classicdoom.com/v11bbugs.htm

[ToXiCFLUFF]

You can get many monster types to fight with their own kind if the barrel bug comes into play. In old versions of Doom, monsters will even attack themselves because of the bug.
For demos of Imps, Barons, Cacodemons, Revenants killing their own kind (plus some other oddities):
http://classicdoom.com/odddemos.htm
Some monsters attacking themselves (requires Doom v1.1):
http://classicdoom.com/v11bbugs.htm You certainly know your stuff.

[Sickpuppy]

How come you can't get two of the same kind of monster to fight each other cause ive had shit loads of imps everywhare hitting each other and the ones that get hit dont fight back. You can get many monster types to fight with their own kind if the barrel bug comes into play. In old versions of Doom, monsters will even attack themselves because of the bug.
For demos of Imps, Barons, Cacodemons, Revenants killing their own kind (plus some other oddities):
http://classicdoom.com/odddemos.htm
Some monsters attacking themselves (requires Doom v1.1):
http://classicdoom.com/v11bbugs.htm

Thats how I got my first ever in-house Baron fight to occur on E1M8 (using the barrels). I thought it was mad watching the Barons belt the crap out of each other. *casper*

[Arzca85]

If I remember correctly there was a somekind of "mod" made of monsters fights, you were able to spawn monsters, and they attacked against the monsters spawned by the other player. It was called DoomWars, and it uses Legacy. It was great to spawn tons of shotgun guys against senseless amount if Imps, that was one nice bloodbath...

[Sickpuppy]

you can get the archvile to be retaliated using Dehacked. Hes actually pretty piss poor and even a hell knight can kill him.

Whats the dehacked switch in order to do that?

Would be nice to see the arch getting some of his own medicine thrown back at him. :)

[Shadow Wolf]

Hmmm, its not necissarily true that the Arch Vile cann't be retaliated on by other creautres. Remember splash damage, and leading targets? I've led enemies to hit each other by dodging their shots until they hit another demon with whatever they shoot. Plus, CyberDemons shoot rockets, which have splash damage, so they can blow up Arch Viles.

[Ben2k9]

you can get the archvile to be retaliated using Dehacked. Hes actually pretty piss poor and even a hell knight can kill him.

Whats the dehacked switch in order to do that?

Would be nice to see the arch getting some of his own medicine thrown back at him. :)

i usually swap it with the item respawn, since i dont realistally see my hacks being played online i never actually use this thing, plus it doesnt really matter if its swapped because it still functions as the respawn flag.

[Sickpuppy]

I've been toying around a bit with dwars, pretty interesting as it lets you spawn monster that fight on your behalf.

Through rigorous testing I've found the Arch-Vile to be pretty strong in one on one matchups, but it falls in close quarter combat to Arachnotrons, Mancubus and Hell Knights/Barons.

In ranged warfare the Arch-Vile fares better the greater the distance, due to 100% accuracy within its LOS.

[yabbacard]

I've found the Arch-Vile to be pretty strong in one on one matchups, but it falls in close quarter combat to Arachnotrons, Mancubus and Hell Knights/Barons.That will be partly because of it hurting itself with its own splash damage. Sometimes in normal play you'll get an archie attacking a cyberdemon (the archie repeatedly blasting the cyber, and the cyber not retaliating). It depends on the specifics, but quite often the archie dies first.

[Sickpuppy]

Thats true, I've had the archie kill itself with its own attack when I was standing next to it while it hit me. I should also add that the while the Archie loses, its not by much, especially where the hell knight is concerned. In some of the simulations I did vs Hell Knight, the Archie won, but they were pretty rare. However an Arch-Vile in ranged warfare can kill up to 4 Hell Knights Knights, Kill Baron's and even Mancubus. Arachnotron's still cut the archie down tho.