DeePsea 11.65 posted [Archive]

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deepteam

July 27th, 2002, 08:48 AM

DeePsea 11.65 Biggest changes are for Legacy and ZDOOM and XP. The short list:

Legacy #RRRGGBBA texture name support, ability to change specific colors for specials. For example, to highlight Legacy script lines.

New Editing dialogs with direct entry of Specials/ZDOOM/HEXEN values.

Ability to use any Node Builder desired automatically. Geared toward Legacy ZENNODE users and also for those ports that require GLBSP.

New Thing shape and display description option. Give any Thing a short (1-8 chararacters) description which shows onscreen, making it much easier to review sophisticated levels with lots of control Things as in ZDOOM.

New predefined Thing images for certain ZDOOM and HEXEN Things.

All this stuff is set in the OPT files, so change to whatever suits you.

Aliotroph?

July 27th, 2002, 11:59 AM

Is this the version I was just sent when I recently made my friend buy this for me (couple weeks ago)?

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

July 27th, 2002, 08:38 PM

Yes

Aliotroph?

July 27th, 2002, 11:06 PM

Kewl. This is the best editor I've ever use as far as I can tell. Well worth the big stack of money. I couldn't get the FS editor to work though. Whenever I had a script in there it kept crashing Legacy until I emptied all the code out. I tried it with a simple script too. Not sure what the problem is though because scripts always work for me and the map was fine.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

July 28th, 2002, 09:31 AM

Thanks.

All the F6/FS tool does is store the text file in the level header. The FS editor is whatever editor you choose. Default is Notepad. If you switched to some other editor, switch back to Notepad and see.

I've just checked this with Nimrod (exporting and saving the script) and it came out exactly the same. No crashes. Both copies are exactly the same. You can verify this easily yourself. You store the script, then export it again using a different file name. Now compare.

So either the scripts were flawed or you did something else too or it's something to do with Legacy/your configuration when tested from DeePsea. Sometimes a coding error only shows up when resources are a certain mix.

Aliotroph?

July 28th, 2002, 01:14 PM

Well, I think the error was something else. I was using Notepad (what's better than that? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif). Anyway I don't know, but won't be putting FS in my level for a while anyway.

Two other things:

1. Sometimes it's hard to tell which linedef types are for BooM or not because they're all in the same box.

2. Sometimes when you switch from one mode to another (the 3D viewer to vertex or sector modes) stuff doesn't refresh properly on the screen or not immediately. That gets a bit confusing. It's usually just the cursor but if you're in that 3D view mode and you switch to another window and switch back things start to get messed up and it's hard to get back to normal.

EDIT: Is there a way to kill that stupid DooM II screen at the start? It's annoying. And is there a way to change the default folder it looks for wads in? It always looks in the DeePsea folder.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 2nd, 2002, 11:32 PM

Been gone for a week.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade> Sometimes it's hard to tell which linedef types are for BooM or not because they're all in the same box.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean the onscreen display? Editing is automatically switched to a BOOM type (if it is such). BOOM types have BIG numbers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>2. Sometimes when you switch from one mode to another (the 3D viewer to vertex or sector modes) stuff doesn't refresh properly on the screen or not immediately. That gets a bit confusing. It's usually just the cursor but if you're in that 3D view mode and you switch to another window and switch back things start to get messed up and it's hard to get back to normal.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>3D view is NOT designed to switch between windows- IOW - do not let it loose focus. Basically, ALL editing was designed to be full-screen. However, some video card drivers (notably ATI), have cursor and other refresh glitches.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>EDIT: Is there a way to kill that stupid DooM II screen at the start?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>LOOK at the top of the screen. Do what it says.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>And is there a way to change the default folder it looks for wads in? It always looks in the DeePsea folder.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. F5 options. You can change MANY options in DeePsea. I suggest a quick review of the docs, esp the shortcut summary page, otherwise you'll never realize all the commands that exist http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

Aliotroph?

August 2nd, 2002, 11:40 PM

Hmmm, I didn't see the default folder thing in the options. I'll have another look. As for the video thing, yeah, I have a damned Radeon card so that's explained. Silly Compaq laptop. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

Is there anything you haven't thought of?

Oh, here's another question. I imported a bunch of flats and textures into map map and they worked but when I added another batch of flats it didn't work at all. They're in the wad in the fight place with the others but they don't show in the texture selection things for my sectors. Any advice would be helpful. I read the docs on the flat stuff and I can't figure this out. Thanks. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 3rd, 2002, 10:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Hmmm, I didn't see the default folder thing in the options.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Set Save Path. Docs explain this is also for reading files as well as saving. Default can be temporarily overridden if you switch folders till you exit and restart. Other default paths that can be set are for graphics and pasting in other WADs.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>I imported a bunch of flats and textures into map map and they worked but when I added another batch of flats it didn't work at all.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Either they are not in the right place (between FF_START and FF_END/F_END or you have more than 1 PWAD loaded with FLATS. So reset/close all files (there's a menu command that does this) and then open up the one with all the new FLATs.

Aliotroph?

August 3rd, 2002, 11:36 AM

Well, turns out the flats I imported somehow didn't get imported as flats. Kinda weird. That's why only half of them worked. I must have clicked the wrong button when I imported them.

One last question. How do you delete a lump from a wad? I can't find it in the docs and I can't find a button for it anywhere.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 3rd, 2002, 12:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>How do you delete a lump from a wad? I can't find it in the docs and I can't find a button for it anywhere.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>F7, button labelled "PWAD Lump Fixing (Ren-Mov-Del)". This tool is specifically designed to rearrange, rename and delete lumps.

However, you can also delete and rename lumps with the F7/Import tool. Just delete the lump using the right target listbox.

Aliotroph?

August 8th, 2002, 05:44 PM

Hehe, I figured it out just after I posted that question. I find some lump stuff easier in Wintex but maybe that's just me.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 9th, 2002, 05:24 PM

It's called getting used to a different way of thinking and doing.

I organized by FUNCTION. So if you know what it is you want to do, the F7 menu has categorized it.

Mostly one Export, Import/Merge, Texture/Edit, Create Textures (from BMPS) or Delete/Rearrange. Duck simple and quick.

Btw - all that "cleanwad" stuff is for the birds. Anytime you save or alter PWAD with any of the tools, a PWAD is automatically "cleaned". Cleaning is required only if you used a tool that does a poor job of maintaining proper offsets. Mostly old tools.

I think Wintex is bizarre http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

Aliotroph?

August 10th, 2002, 12:04 AM

Wintex is quite bizarre but it jives quite well with my way of thinking. If only it was more reliable.

Anyway, I think I know a bug in DeePsea that isn't my video driver (at least I hope not). I noticed the linedef dialog never displays "MISSING" for textures on the second sidedef. They display in the status boxes but not the dialog.

Damn, DeePsea is reliable though. It never dies and it does what it says it does. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

I still think the 3D thing should have textures and the ability to edit them (Duke3D did it and Duk3D is old). http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 10th, 2002, 08:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Anyway, I think I know a bug in DeePsea that isn't my video driver (at least I hope not). I noticed the linedef dialog never displays "MISSING" for textures on the second sidedef. They display in the status boxes but not the dialog.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>You are correct. I think it's on purpose, but not sure it's supposed to do that on the main dialog only on the "button" textures. I don't think it is. Need to look what I accidently changed?

It has to do with with "missing" being a bit special and the way the texture display works for the "buttons" only.

DeePsea automatically tries to position the cursor at the last valid texture you entered for that texture position in the display if it's missing. This saves you from having to type the texture name in.

But as I said, I think this was only supposed to be for the "buttons" that you can push to replace textures (as well as the main dialog boxes.

Look at the buttons values and you'll see the words "missing", even though the main display does not.

As a side note, the buttons (in all the dialogs) work a bit differently than the main dialog in terms of setting values.

For example, if you select a bunch of sectors and leave the sector lighting the same value in the main dialog - nothing is changed. However, if you push the
"light" button - ALL the selected sectors are changed to the current value displayed.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Damn, DeePsea is reliable though. It never dies and it does what it says it does. <hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>I still think the 3D thing should have textures and the ability to edit them (Duke3D did it and Duk3D is old). <hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>People always forget that the Duke 2D editing sucked hard. One of the worst map editing styles I've ever seen.

Now - what you are asking for is a lot harder to do in DOOM. Duke has no bsp. Even if I "borrowed" DOOM code, it would be a huge amount of code and it requires one to build a bsp tree. Then there's the massive work required. Look how long it takes for the ports to make simple changes.

If this was a well paying job - I would http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

Aliotroph?

August 11th, 2002, 12:47 PM

Hmmm, I'm not sure why you need a BSP to display it just because the game uses it. Are you sure you could just draw it fram back to front without needing to worry about speed? I mean somehow Duke3D ran on a 486 box and everyone who uses DeePsea probably has a Pentium something-or-other. There are other games that don't use BSP's either. The big 3D RPG things come to mind.

BUILD did have bad 2D editing though. There's no arguing that.

Oh yeah, how is it that the texture thing in my level can say "MISSING" but in the game it shows a default texture? This happens even though it was saved with nothing in there and loaded up with nothing in there (I think).

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 11th, 2002, 02:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Hmmm, I'm not sure why you need a BSP to display it just because the game uses it. <hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Easy answer: Why do all the ports still use a BSP? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif Not saying it can't be done, but there's the question of reasonable effort involved. If nobody has done this, I'm not exactly motivated to spend a year just to do this, when some wise guy will just say it's not required to make levels http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>I mean somehow Duke3D ran on a 486<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>So did DOOM. Has nothing to do with your original statement. Duke has DIFFERENT rules/layout for the internal map vs DOOM.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>There are other games that don't use BSP's either. The big 3D RPG things come to mind.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Same answer. You can name ANY game for that matter. What you are leaving out is the SIZE of those games and the amount of work that went into them. AND that they now typically rely on hardware rendering/DirectX/OGL support - NOT software rendering.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Oh yeah, how is it that the texture thing in my level can say "MISSING" but in the game it shows a default texture?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Not really sure what you are saying. If a sidedef does not have a texture (- value) and it shows a texture in the game, that's just the way the engine code is working by accident at that location. Not too unusual - even DOOM2 had those kind of mistakes - the back texture showed through and you can't tell it's missing.

Aliotroph?

August 11th, 2002, 07:13 PM

Well, I was thinking exclusively of software rendering for those games I had in mind. I have no idea how those worked. There is a DooM port that got rid of the BSP stuff though. Actually, I think I sent you the link once because the code was released on the site. Heh, whatever. Doesn't really matter.

Maybe haviing the 3D walkthrough draw some real lines so we can see dimensions better would be good though.

That texture thing is weird. I'd usually expect a HOM but it's probably better if it doesn't.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

deepteam

August 11th, 2002, 07:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>. There is a DooM port that got rid of the BSP stuff though. Actually, I think I sent you the link once because the code was released on the site. Heh, whatever. Doesn't really matter.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, thanks for the link - very interesting. Not really a DOOM port, more like CUBE. The general problem is the amount of work required and the general lack of time.

CheapAlert

August 12th, 2002, 09:49 AM

not a beg, just a ?: is Amulets & Armor support certain in future versions?

deepteam

August 12th, 2002, 01:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>not a beg, just a ?: is Amulets & Armor support certain in future versions?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>I assume you are asking about DeePsea and HEXEN/HERETIC.

You can edit either of those. Switch to the right project and that come up.

If you mean something else, please explain. You can also add you own special types via the OPT file for the game.
========================================

And Alio, I did make a mistake on the 2nd side missing just as I described.

Please send me an email and I'll update you.

CheapAlert

August 12th, 2002, 01:47 PM

Amulets & Armor is not hexen/heretic. It uses PIECES of the doom engine, I can open their .MAP files and change them and save them, but it'd be much better to support those RES files. A&A's engine is so much like doom, it just sorts out files differently, and not in WAD's. With some good guesswork, you can get support in there.

Aliotroph?

August 12th, 2002, 03:26 PM

It was probably the last game to use the DooM engine. If you want it deepteam you can get it here (http://www.the-underdogs.org). Most of the linedef types from DooM are probably intact and there seem to be some new line/sector types.

Personally, I think that game has shit graphics and a crappy movement interface.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager

CheapAlert

August 13th, 2002, 09:37 AM

no one ever uses the mouse to move around...the game's very fun, tho. Wish a res editor and a dehacker could become a reality. Wished that on last night's meteor shower.

Aliotroph?

August 13th, 2002, 11:41 AM

People use the mouse to aim. Even in games with no vertical aiming. It just works better.

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"Computer, install a recursive subroutine." - Harry Kim, Star Trek Voyager