Light Levels In DooM? [Archive]

Doom_Dude

April 1st, 2002, 07:41 AM

Heya! Where can I get a list of what the actuall light levels are supposed to be in DooM? In the editors you can set the lighting to be between 1 and 256 but I'm pretty sure that the engine rounds the numbers off.....meaning if you set a light too 100 or 110 the engine will set it at 128 or whatever. I read something about this once and I think it was Lüt who mentioned it someplace. Anyways I was just looking for the info if anybody knows where to find it. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

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All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Doom_Dude

April 1st, 2002, 07:53 AM

Ugh! I think I found it and the lighting is supposed to be set in increments of 16. Funny that this isn't mentioned anyplace and I couldn't even find it in my DooM Hackers Guide. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/tongue.gif

16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128, 144, 160, 176, 192, 208, 224, 240, 256

Ok that's all. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

DarkWolf

April 1st, 2002, 11:56 AM

In my editor they go from 0 to 255 (one byte), rather than 1 to 256.

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-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

Aliotroph?

April 1st, 2002, 03:14 PM

Yeah, mine too. That increment of 16 thing makes sense when you're coding but it doesn't make sense that there aren't just 16 specified levels (0 - 15).

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

DarkWolf

April 1st, 2002, 06:22 PM

16 levels of light, that sounds about right considering that the colormap has a limited amount of palettes. I'm not sure if GL ports round the number or not, considering they don't use the colormap lump.

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-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

Doom_Dude

April 1st, 2002, 08:48 PM

Yeah you're right about the 1 to 255 thinghy....that's how it is in DoomCad too. Anyhow I'm sure about the 16 increment thing but can't find the documentation and was mostly curious about it. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Stphrz

April 1st, 2002, 09:33 PM

16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 112, 128, 144, 160, 176, 192, 208, 224, 240, 256In reality there is even less than that. Anything below 80 is essentially pitch black. Anything above 224 is essentially full bright. So that leaves you with just 10 noticably different, light levels in Doom.

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Aliotroph?

April 2nd, 2002, 12:29 AM

255 renders everything fullbright and kills the light diminishing effect. This might not happen at 224 or 240.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 2nd, 2002, 10:50 AM

OK, with light levels 224 and up, you only notice it in certain places. Remember that Doom renders straight walls at either +16 or -16 lighting, so these light levels like 224 and 240 would have an effect on the darkened walls, but not the lightened ones.

As for increments, it rounds anything between the numbers listed DOWN to the lowest available light level, so anything between 144 and 160 (for example, 159) would become 144, etc.

When I said I fixed the Millennium maps which had lighting in increments of 10 or 5, I meant I did it manually, sector-by-sector. I didn't use an auto-adjust lighting tool. I wish there was a tool like that though, it would save me a hell of a lot of time.

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 2nd, 2002, 03:26 PM

I should also add that I was talking to Colin Phipps and Julian in IRC and they each mentioned that there are a few ports that support any number between 0 and 255, and I believe those ports were PRBoom and ZDoom.

Doom_Dude

April 2nd, 2002, 05:37 PM

Ok kewl and thanx for the info. I'm adjusting my bad lighting habits in Vilecore and also wish there was a auto-adjust lighting tool. While I'm reorganising the entire megawad brick by brick I might as well heap on hours of work changing the lighting. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm32.gif

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Stphrz

April 2nd, 2002, 05:53 PM

Hey, maybe Jack could incorporate such a feature in Deepsea or something, if he hasn't already :) Any halfway decent coder could probably write a small utility without much trouble. Ask around. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm11.gif

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

deepteam

April 2nd, 2002, 06:50 PM

Rounding down could be "dangerous". Has to do with the way 2-sided lines distinquish.

A lot of people use a 1 unit light difference for this quirk. IOW, rounding would screw up the level.

IIRC - the surrounding light levels are also used to determine flicker and certain kinds of lighting.

For stock DOOM, just make sure they differ by 16 for most things. The final judge is the EYE. It's a non-issue. If the level looks good, don't worry about it.

It would be easy to code - so far I'm not convinced it would help anybody - and could really screw up a level. Some hangups are just that and nothing more http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

Stphrz

April 2nd, 2002, 07:14 PM

*Smacks forehead....

Gah! I just remembered *I* have actually used that 1 unit light level difference for certain things before myself. Totally forgot about that. You are correct, that such a "feature" or utlilty could indeed screw up certain levels.

Get crackin' there Doom_Dude, you have a lot of work to do. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm4.gif

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Doom_Dude

April 2nd, 2002, 07:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Get crackin' there Doom_Dude, you have a lot of work to do.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

All I'm telling you is that the diff between Vilecore's original Map 01 and the new version is like night and day. Yeap I have a ton of work to do and lighting is only a small part of it. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

Stphrz have you editied anything lately? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/tongue.gif

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Stphrz

April 2nd, 2002, 08:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Stphrz have you editied anything lately? <hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Not really. Not anything I want anyone to see at any rate... I suck at Doom editing lately :P

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Aliotroph?

April 2nd, 2002, 10:18 PM

All I've made is that dehacked patch you've seen Doom_Dude (kinda cool really) and the beginnings of some silly deathmatch map in Wadauthor.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

Pate

April 2nd, 2002, 11:38 PM

This is just the kind of thing Why's scripting was made for. If you have to change a lot of sectors in a certain way, just write a script to do it for you. It's quite easy and certain not to miss any sector, even the really small ones hidden in corners. The beta 3 release of Why has documentation on how to do this. (Just remember: backup, backup backup, some bugs might still lurk there.)

Doom_Dude

April 3rd, 2002, 04:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Not really. Not anything I want anyone to see at any rate... I suck at Doom editing lately :P<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah right. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/tongue.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>This is just the kind of thing Why's scripting was made for. If you have to change a lot of sectors in a certain way, just write a script to do it for you. It's quite easy and certain not to miss any sector, even the really small ones hidden in corners. The beta 3 release of Why has documentation on how to do this. (Just remember: backup, backup backup, some bugs might still lurk there.)<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and even if that worked id srill go in and check every danged sector anyways out of paranoia....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>All I've made is that dehacked patch you've seen Doom_Dude (kinda cool really) and the beginnings of some silly deathmatch map in Wadauthor.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats more than what I've done in 3 1/2 months. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm32.gif

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Pate

April 3rd, 2002, 05:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>...and even if that worked id srill go in and check every danged sector anyways out of paranoia....<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you should in any case. Check, double-check, and then check again!

Rellik_jmd

April 3rd, 2002, 09:14 AM

Ah the fun fun world of obsessive compulsion.... Hmmm, the label on that can of soup is facing directly forward but I'm just gonna leave it. So what if it isn't perpendicular to the front of the shell and identicle to the other cans even;y spaced around it. I'll just leave it. It doesn't matter. I'll go watch some TV and...

*30 seconds later runsinto kitchen and turns can 3 millimeters to left.

------------------
Member of Team DEIM (http://www.teamdeim.com/)
Webmaster The DOOM Editing Resource (http://www.teamdeim.com/der/)

DarkWolf

April 3rd, 2002, 10:10 AM

Lighting differs because of monitor brightness and gamma settings anyway. You could spend a year perfecting the lighting on your map and still have it look too bright/dark on certain machines.

------------------
-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

Doom_Dude

April 3rd, 2002, 10:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>As you should in any case. Check, double-check, and then check again!<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me about it. I thought I was done vamping up map01 and then I find I have a wrong flat under a light in a side room. I must've walked by that a dozen times. Ugh!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Ah the fun fun world of obsessive compulsion....<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/tongue.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Lighting differs because of monitor brightness and gamma settings anyway. You could spend a year perfecting the lighting on your map and still have it look too bright/dark on certain machines.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's too true! I can't believe how dark my bro's monitor is compared to mine. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Aliotroph?

April 3rd, 2002, 10:25 AM

My old screen was too dark to play software mode in any game.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

Doom_Dude

April 3rd, 2002, 02:40 PM

Ugh! You mentioned that hated software mode again. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm32.gif

------------------
http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

DarkWolf

April 3rd, 2002, 03:09 PM

Just did a test in GL Legacy, apparently it still rounds.

------------------
-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

theDOOMguy

April 3rd, 2002, 08:50 PM

doomcad? dude get waded, it's way better

unlike the other editor you don't have to place vertexes before drawing lines, waded does it for you

get version 1.88(it's not buggy like 1.87)

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 3rd, 2002, 10:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>get version 1.88<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>1.88 is horrible, it offers more limited filesizes, it takes anywhere from 5 to 15 times as long to "make sector", it goes goofy when you delete things, has more "make sector" freezes, etc.

theDOOMguy

April 3rd, 2002, 11:11 PM

you have to be talking about doomcad because i have found all of that to be untrue

i have not found any limited file sizes in any version of waded nor have i noticed it taking longer in 1.88, you may have 1.88 confused with 1.87

because that sounds a lot like 1.87(the bugs galore version)

1.87 had a ton of make sector freezes, i have yet to see any with 1.88(and have made several wads with it)

did you get your version on a cd? because that's the only place i know you can get 1.87 anymore plus it would prove the version your talking about is in fact 1.87

i have not seen any problems with 1.88

DarkWolf

April 4th, 2002, 04:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>unlike the other editor you don't have to place vertexes before drawing lines, waded does it for you<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you think that's a good thing? I feel powerless when I can't manipulate my vertices.

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-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

Rellik_jmd

April 4th, 2002, 09:06 AM

I've had loads of problems with 1.88, but it's still the editor I use to make levels (and WadAuthor to paste 'em together) http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif. Heh, I've hit the size limit on maps as small as 140kb....

Where do I get version 1.87?

------------------
Member of Team DEIM (http://www.teamdeim.com/)
Webmaster The DOOM Editing Resource (http://www.teamdeim.com/der/)

Doom_Dude

April 4th, 2002, 05:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>doomcad? dude get waded, it's way better
unlike the other editor you don't have to place vertexes before drawing lines, waded does it for you

get version 1.88(it's not buggy like 1.87)<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somehow I don't think so. I prefer the way DoomCad works and why the hell would I want to stop using something I know like the back of my hand and that works fine for me?? I like drawing my sectors by connecting the dots. Whats with Waded not allowing you to manipulate vertices???? That's no good at all if you ask me...besides ya'll just said it's danged buggy. DoomCad 5.1 has one bug that I've found and that crops up when you start deleting linedefs. Sooooo if I want to delete a few linedefs I just boot up DoomCad 6.1 and delete what I want and get back into 5.1 again. Other than that DoomCad 5.1 works A1. Oh and before somebody says 'why don't you use 6.1 it's better'....just so ya know I don't like the 6.1 interface and how they changed the names of the triggers and things. Bleah. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm12.gif

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

DarkWolf

April 4th, 2002, 06:03 PM

It's easier, in my opinion, to split sectors and line defs with an editor that allows you to manipulate vertices.

------------------
-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

theDOOMguy

April 4th, 2002, 08:56 PM

waded allows you to manipulate them

just click on them and drag in the lindef mode

it also allows you to place them individually

you see the button that allows you to delete them will CREAT them if you press the wrong mouse button

but you CAN manipulate them without first placing them, just move the mouse up to it, click, and drag(this off course manipulates the lines accordingly)

BTW the ONLY place you can get waded 1.87 is on the tricks of the doom gurus CD

Aliotroph?

April 4th, 2002, 11:36 PM

Hey DooM_Dude, you should check if there's a file that defines all the line types. If there is, just send it to me and I'll fix it.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 5th, 2002, 06:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>v1.87<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh, I don't there is such a thing. v1.83 is around though, and it's the best. Just do a time comparison on some simple "make sector" rooms between v1.83 and v1.88, you'll notice the difference.

The level size limit in WadEd is due to it's use of conventional memory. I think if you press "I", you'll see the used and maximum stats available. v1.88 took more conventional memory, thus cutting down on level sizes available. I used to max out my maps, and the "upgrade" to v1.88 meant I couldn't load about 1/3 of my maps.

But now I got good Windows editors and don't really touch WadEd anymore.

Doom_Dude

April 5th, 2002, 02:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Hey DooM_Dude, you should check if there's a file that defines all the line types. If there is, just send it to me and I'll fix it.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmmm are we talking about Legacy tricks now?

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

theDOOMguy

April 5th, 2002, 10:06 PM

hmm? i HAVE used that "l" thing and noticed that

but what IS conventional memory?

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 6th, 2002, 03:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>but what IS conventional memory?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Heh, it's been so long since I've had to worry about it that I've forgotten.

Back in the DOS days, it was basically how much memory you had available to run any kind of programs. There was a total of 640k available (that was the max no matter what) and once your DOS and hardware drivers were loaded, you were lucky to get more than 620k free if you were an expert memory manager, although I was able to get 634K all the time with QEMM, which helped WadEd big-time. If you were low on conventional memory (for whatever reason), you'd have a lot of programs that just wouldn't run.

Fortunately Windows has completely trashed that concept (in relation to programs being able to run), although a lot of DOS apps still depend on it (even if running in Windows), and running them in Windows isn't the best idea since Windows itself takes a good load of conventional memory from those programs.

Aliotroph?

April 6th, 2002, 10:56 AM

Why is it only 640k?

No DooM_Dude, I meant there might be a file in DoomCAD that defines what the editor says about all the DooM line types (what what it describes them as). I can't see why they'd remove the ability to have nice descriptions if they had them before. Unless Lüt's idea about memory holds true here too. Maybe they saved some by cutting all the text.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

Doom_Dude

April 6th, 2002, 12:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>No DooM_Dude, I meant there might be a file in DoomCAD that defines what the editor says about all the DooM line types (what what it describes them as). I can't see why they'd remove the ability to have nice descriptions if they had them before.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh that. I already started changing the names awhile ago but got bored...besides I still prefer 5.1 so it's just a waste of time.

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 6th, 2002, 02:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Why is it only 640k?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>I believe that's called "lack of foresight", similar to when Microsoft designed FAT32 under the impression that no home user would ever have a hard drive larger than 8GB.

DarkWolf

April 6th, 2002, 04:29 PM

I believe someone in the industry said something about never needing anything over 640k a while back.

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-DarkWolf
Scientia et mors
446F 6F6D

Doom_Dude

April 6th, 2002, 06:08 PM

I heard something along those lines too.

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Stphrz

April 6th, 2002, 06:39 PM

Yeah. That was good 'ol Bill Gates.

He said something along the lines of:

"640k oughta be enough for anybody"

http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm4.gif

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Doom_Dude

April 6th, 2002, 07:43 PM

LOL. I thought he was supposed to be bright. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm32.gif

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The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

theDOOMguy

April 6th, 2002, 09:17 PM

well do you know of any good decoders?

i could change the "max" variables so that problem wouldn't exist

Aliotroph?

April 6th, 2002, 10:16 PM

[in a nerdy voice]: "I started Microsoft with the vision of a computer on every desk in every home. Microsoft has never deviated from that vision." - Bill Gates (taken from Encarta 95)

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

theDOOMguy

April 6th, 2002, 11:14 PM

yeah i really hate bill geeks

Aliotroph?

April 7th, 2002, 01:15 AM

M$'s products just keep getting dumber and dumber. The new PictureIt is almost totally unusable to anyone used to a normal looking interface.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

Doom_Dude

April 7th, 2002, 09:45 AM

LOL What a crazy forum. A guy asks about DooM light levels and it turns into a Bill Gates bashing thinghy.

Well I'm really pleased to have figured out my replacing switch textures with XWE. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/biggrin.gif

Screw gates!

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Aliotroph?

April 7th, 2002, 01:12 PM

No! Whatever you do don't let him screw anymore. He has enough children. We don't need anymore of Mini-Bill.

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

Doom_Dude

April 7th, 2002, 06:28 PM

Ugh! I meant something other than anything sexual. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm36.gif

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF
The Megawad: Home of Vilecore (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/)

All that glitters is not gold.
------------------------
Sometimes it's not easy following the path of least resistance.

Aliotroph?

April 7th, 2002, 07:31 PM

LOL I know. I was just playing with your mind. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

theDOOMguy

April 7th, 2002, 08:21 PM

maybe we could bullet-fuck his(bill geek's) skull(okay so that's not really fucking http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm27.gif )

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

April 8th, 2002, 01:21 AM

Uh, Bill Gates has kids?

Aliotroph?

April 8th, 2002, 11:36 AM

I know he has a daughter. They were talking about her on an interview. He said something about getting her a library card and they replied, "Don't you already partially own that library?"

------------------
"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

theDOOMguy

April 8th, 2002, 09:43 PM

that just proves my theory that even his kids hate him

Rellik_jmd

April 8th, 2002, 10:38 PM

They just had their 3rd a couple days ago. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif Dammit there was something else I was gonna say but... oh yeah! Heh remember a few years back when people would say "8 gigabyte harddrive? You'll never use it all!"

Meh.

------------------
Member of Team DEIM (http://www.teamdeim.com/)
Webmaster The DOOM Editing Resource (http://www.teamdeim.com/der/)