What's a GOOD level? [Archive]

Melfice

January 11th, 2003, 04:31 PM

If you can help it, try to develop your own style of mapping. Everyone has their own style, and does mapping a certain way. Take Mystic for example, he's known for his small but difficult Void type levels, that are colorful and futuristic. (Mystic#s 1-8, for Legacy, there's a link to "Doom Heaven in Big_Al's sig if you want to try them).

I can't say I myself have any certain style, I'd have to ask someone else. One of these days I'll get some pics of my new Legacy level up on here too.

Also, it's always fun to try something else you think no one else has done yet, or something similar to something else that's rarely done. Not trying to sound corny, but Mapping is yet another way of expressing yourself, you can almost think of it as an art.

The Undertaker

January 11th, 2003, 05:18 PM

A good level is one that gets its message across, like this this (http://doomworld.com/images/newstuff/100/_omfg.jpg) one did.
Or takes one aspect of gameplay, and takes it to the absolute extreme, like this this (ftp://3darchives.in-span.net/pub/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/m-o/nuts.zip) one does.
Or one that takes us into the past like this (ftp://3darchives.in-span.net/pub/idgames/sounds/nes_snd2.zip) one did.
Okay, here's some real advice, copy the E1 style like this (ftp://3darchives.in-span.net/pub/idgames/levels/doom/p-r/retroeps.zip) one did.

Sphagne

January 11th, 2003, 08:00 PM

Gameplay --> Design --> Features

Agent Spork

January 11th, 2003, 08:06 PM

Easy. Design, Gameplay, and Originality.

It's hard nowdays to find original maps. But now there's so many ways to be original, such as making a Legacy map with 3d Floors, colored lighting, deep water, fragglescript. Zdoom, you can use advanced ACS Scripting, Slopes, Mirrors, etc. With Jdoom, you can use XG Line Types, or even make your own models.

Gamplay is the most important. What's the use of playing a map that's just not fun? Who likes a map that's insanely impossible, and irritating?

Design is definatly important. If the level has a bad design, sometimes that may mean it has bad gameplay, and is unoriginal. If you actually work to make the maps look good, and make it have good gameplay, that's the aim.

Anyways, this is just my opinion.

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

January 11th, 2003, 10:31 PM

I'm entirely played out when it comes to Doom. I've played through maps with every kind of gameplay imaginable time and time again, so the only reason I play maps nowadays is for their visual and architectural accomplishments. I enjoy walking around places as an observer much more than emptying hordes of demons out of them for the 10,000th time. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy good design in the gameplay department, but when it comes to personal enjoyment, I'll take a great looking map and run through it with -nomonsters instead of a good-playing plain map anyday.

I'm the explorer type, really. I could care less about monsters, they usually just detract from the scenery.

For me personally, if I'm working with vanilla Doom I tend to design with gameplay = looks, but with ports it's typically build a cool structure, then throw some dudes in. I really don't like ports, because I don't feel a level is good unless I've taken full advantage of available features, i.e. used up the entire 32,000 sidedefs and used a lot of port-specific features. After that, what happens is I just can't keep up with what I've already built, which means I can't add more, then the level just sits there for months at a time.

I'm doing some detailed maps now for the sake of making detailed maps: after that, I don't think I'll ever map for a port again. I almost have to have limits forced on me to ensure I'll actually complete something.

I really just need to stop mapping entirely, but there's so much incomplete junk I have laying around that I've already spent so many years on I just can't let it slide. I guess it doesn't help that I'm constantly starting new stuff as well.

Anyway, visuals and looks go far and beyond gameplay of any kind. As long as there's enough ammo for the monsters, it's all good - whenever I play with monsters.

deepteam

January 11th, 2003, 10:53 PM

Hey Lut, you can go OVER 32k linedefs now with the latest ZDOOM 2.xx Also there is no more 128k BLOCKMAP limit. Put the bug in other port's ears - basically make the index values unsigned, change the blockmap and change the nodes. Latter needs some new standard - chicken and egg thing. I'll probably do a beta nodes builder to get it rolling. Might be GLBSP first though, since BOOMSDAY guy will change the code if I do it.

Next version of DeePsea will let you make >32k linedefs and of course >32k sidedefs and some other changes.
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On topic: I too like level design 1st, then gameplay. Also I prefer totally new textures (not stock DOOM textures - been there, done that too much). So also replace as many textures as possible. If a port supports it, use hi-res textures!!

Ninja_of_DooM

January 12th, 2003, 02:17 AM

A good level? The ones I make are good. I don't know if anyone's actually downloaded them though. Has anyone done that yet? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm25.gif

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Member of the NewDooM megawad team. Map 14: Jail Break.

My own little bunch of WADs. Containing 3 individual maps. Download it here (http://sparky.suhost.com/pub/doom/ninja_of_doom_wads.zip)

Thanks to Sparky for the hosting.
If you would wish to host this then contact me at by E-mail. mailto:AndrewAFE@aol.comAndrewAFE@aol.com</A>

Hint to all Katana owners: Never sit on yours, It'll give you a very sore ass indeed.
------------------
Click here for flash.
Patrick Moore playing his xylophone. (http://www.b3ta.co.uk/patrickmoore)
The animated series of DooM.
DooM E1M1 in flash (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=58822&date=1034136000)

ReX

January 12th, 2003, 04:11 PM

The New Radical said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>What makes a map fun to play? What does everyone here think makes a level worth playing?<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>As most of the previous posts have indicated, gameplay and level design are what people generally look for in a map. Here's my take on each of these. I'm really just elaborating on these two points.

Gameplay:
1. Atmosphere. Many maps strive for a creepy atmosphere, with somewhat dimly-lit areas and the presence of monsters heard but not seen. Others go for reasonably well-lit areas, and even a brighter look to the map with new blue-sky textures, etc. Each approach works well, depending on the intention of the author.
2. Surprises. Some maps, especially the creepy ones, will spring traps on the unsuspecting player, perhaps without warning. It's best, however, to give the player either a clue that there's a trap, enough health & ammo to deal with the trap, or a way out. The key is to make the player sweat without dooming him/her to failure.
3. Action. Some maps will have enemies sniping at you from a distance, forcing you to duck and hide until you are close enough to deal with them. Others will have hordes of enemies swarming around. Others will require you to run through or retreat or cause enemy in-fights. All approaches can work very well if implemented properly.
4. Health/Armor/Weapons/Ammo Not too much, not too little. As always, keep the player on edge, but give him/her a chance.
5. Skill Levels. Not all players have the same skill. For wider appeal, skill levels should be implemented. Otherwise, in the text file specify which skill level the map was built for.
Level Design:
1. Theme. The most common themes appear to be tech/base, medeival, and hellish. When designing a level, try to stay within the theme, unless the story-line indicates otherwise. That's not to say that some elements of one cannot be introduced into a map with a different theme (e.g., the selective use of MARBFAC textures in tech/base maps). But this ought to be done with some care.
2. Architecture. The better the architecture, the more pleased your audience is likely to be. However, do not sacrifice gameplay for architecture (Lüt's opinion notwithstanding).
3. Map Layout. While there's nothing inherently wrong with a linear map, providing the player alternative paths to a given objective is often appreciated.
4. Map Structure. Avoid a map with the same height attributes throughout. In other words, make some rooms with higher ceilings or lower floors than others, make rooms that are higher up (accessible via stairs, elevators, or teleporters), etc. Add windows, especially to areas that the player will only access later in the map, or secret areas.
5. Texturing. Same principles as Themes, above. In addition, make sure textures are properly aligned.
More than $0.02 worth, wouldn't you say? Perhaps $0.03 or even $0.05 http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm30.gif

God-l-Send-l-Death

January 15th, 2003, 06:57 PM

I agree 100% with you ReX...personally, I enjoy non-linear levels better than linear ones...but it depends on wht you have to go through in order to reach the objective, though. Take for instance Cyberden, map 31 of Plutonia (Final Doom). The objective is to pretty clear once you get into the level, and the tasks you have to perform in order to reach it are pretty damn fun to me...plus the architecture is well done too. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm1.gif

Design, atmosphere, and most importantly replay value...if it makes you wanna come back and kill all the demons over and over again...then you should know it's a good map. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm20.gif

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I stalk, close in from above
Silent wings will test your faith
Death will never hear me pass
Pray for sin a shattered faith
Down on your knees, you're screaming out to die...

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

January 17th, 2003, 08:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Gameplay:

1. Atmosphere.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Really? I've always considered atmosphere a product of architecture (lighting in Doom(2) I consider "architecture" since it must be built).

Brad_tilf

January 17th, 2003, 09:10 AM

If you check out some of my reviews of maps on my doom2 wads page - http://www.doomwadstation.suhost.com
You can see how I judge a map or maps. Playability, level design and plain fun are important. Balancing out ammo/health/monsters so that the player is always pushing the limits but never out of options is important.

MidnightStorm

January 17th, 2003, 03:53 PM

I sent in a map for you to take a look at if you would. I only had the map file on this comp...I'll send you the readme as soon as I can find it.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Brad_tilf

January 17th, 2003, 04:46 PM

Yup - I got it.
http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm20.gif

MidnightStorm

January 17th, 2003, 05:30 PM

Great http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif I look forward to seeing the review.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

ReX

January 17th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Hi Sam. I remember Wages of Sin, which was a pretty cool map. I'm sure your other maps are equally cool.

MidnightStorm

January 17th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Hey bro glad to see you back! I've made a few more Doom and Doom 2 maps since...when I get a chance I'll send 'em to you. The latest map I released is a level 30 replacement for Doom 2. Pester Doom Dude for a copy > )

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Doom_Dude

January 18th, 2003, 05:30 AM

Are you talking about your NDCP map???? If so, ReX probably already played it. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm12.gif

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/ndcp)
http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/Ndcp/themegawad.JPG (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad)
----Linedef Technician and Sector Maker Upper----

Brad_tilf

January 18th, 2003, 07:28 AM

My review has been posted.
Looks pretty good.
http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm30.gif
http://www.doomwadstation.suhost.com/mort.html

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 08:18 AM

I read it, and thanks http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm35.gif There was a small error in the review, but oh well LOL (I sent you an email explaining what I did). Also, I'm part Indian, and believe that perfection is reserved for the Spirit, not for mere mortals. (Take a close look at Indian artwork sometime and you'll see that none of it is quite perfect. The "flawed" artwork reflects that belief.)

Afterthought: In the original version or the map, there were going to be TWO cyberdemons instead of just one, but I thought that be a bit too much.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Brad_tilf

January 18th, 2003, 08:35 AM

Ya - you're probably right

ReX

January 18th, 2003, 08:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>My review has been posted.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>"Cannot find server" and "The page cannot be displayed". Will try to get in again later.

ReX

January 18th, 2003, 08:55 AM

DooM Dude said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>Are you talking about your NDCP map???? If so, ReX probably already played it.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>The Sepulchre. Indeed I have. Good stuff.

Brad_tilf

January 18th, 2003, 09:27 AM

Perhaps you should have tried the "refresh" button on your browser cuz it has been up right along.

Stphrz

January 18th, 2003, 09:37 AM

Wait wait wait! Isn't that map from MidnightStorm that was reviewed supposed to be for the newdoom megawad project?? If it is what in the blue fuck is it doing being reviewed and made available for download? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm23.gif

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Exl

January 18th, 2003, 09:41 AM

Yep, it is. Altough I think he should've at least waited with releasing his map until the NDCP project is finished, it's his map and so his decision. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm36.gif

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WhackEd 1.1.81 (http://home.wanadoo.nl/dennis.meuwissen/whacked)

Eat pie, eat bacon, but never eat them both at the same time.

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 09:42 AM

I made the map available for review and download. As the creator of the map, it is my right to do so.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Stphrz

January 18th, 2003, 09:44 AM

Well all the levels in the newdoom project are supposed to be original never before seen or played levels. It ain't his decision. Once he submitted the map to the project team, it became the collective property of the team. We may as end this project if people are going to independently release their maps at will. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm10.gif

There are certain rules that have to be abided by when you work as a TEAM! Rule number one is you don't independently release your fucking work.

Jesus.
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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

Ninja_of_DooM

January 18th, 2003, 09:58 AM

The only way the NDCP maps shopuld be realeased to the public individually is if the map get's screwed up (like several of mine) and then gets replaced by another map for the project so the reject goes on to be individual. (like moi) These should never be realeased until the project's completed. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm22.gif

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Member of the NewDooM megawad team. Map 14: Jail Break.

My own little bunch of WADs. Containing 3 individual maps. Download it here (http://sparky.suhost.com/pub/doom/ninja_of_doom_wads.zip)

Thanks to Sparky for the hosting.
If you would wish to host this then contact me at by E-mail. mailto:AndrewAFE@aol.comAndrewAFE@aol.com</A>

Hint to all Katana owners: Never sit on yours, It'll give you a very sore ass indeed.
------------------
Click here for flash.
Patrick Moore playing his xylophone. (http://www.b3ta.co.uk/patrickmoore)
The animated series of DooM.
DooM E1M1 in flash (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/content.php?id=58822&date=1034136000)

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 10:18 AM

I like both of you, but on this I respectfully have to disagree on this issue. If it makes you feel any better, the map that I released for review and download will NOT be exactly the same map that will be in the NDCP. I've had a few ideas for improvement to the map and am in the process of making the changes.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Stphrz

January 18th, 2003, 01:07 PM

Individuals releasing maps intended for a team project cheapens the project. It is just not done. Ever. If you want to release such a map, you inform the team and you make a completely new map to replace it.

We discussed all this in the early stages of the project. We agreed that only team members would have access to the maps and resource wad. This is the standard way team projects have been conducted since Doom editing started.

Did any of the members of Alien Vendetta release their work on their own before it was released? No. Did any of the members of any major well know Doom megawad release their work on their own before it was released? No.

It's about a team effort. Not about searching for an individual pat on the back.

It's just common sense and common courtesy.

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 05:35 PM

You are making assumptions, and you know what you get when you assume? You make an ASS out of U and ME. You could have at least asked WHY I released the map instead of flying off the damn handle. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm10.gif You seem to think that I released the map for personal recognition, which is far from being the case.

I released the map as a preview and teaser, to let people know that we mean business, and give them a peek of what to look forward to. As I stated earlier, the map I released was a preliminary one, not the final version. I got some ideas on how to improve the map's looks and gameplay, ANOTHER reason why I had it reviewed, to see what could stand some improvement and what I was doing right, as I had never made a map 30 replacement before. If you can't understand that, then that's YOUR problem, not mine. I've said all I am going to say about this issue of yours.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Stphrz

January 18th, 2003, 06:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>I released the map as a preview and teaser, to let people know that we mean business,<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Not your call. Did you ask sparky or Doom_Dude? Did they give their permission? Did you discuss your plans with some of the other team members first? If so, then you have my apology and you can forget the rest of this post and I'll take back everything I said earlier. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>ANOTHER reason why I had it reviewed, to see what could stand some improvement and what I was doing right, as I had never made a map 30 replacement before.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, did you ask other team members for their two cents? You have twenty some odd people to get feedback from. Doom_Dude has experience writing wad reviews, and tons of mapping experience. What is his opinion, chopped liver? For that matter what about my opinion or ReX's. We know a thing or three about mapping too y'know.

Finally: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>You could have at least asked WHY I released the map instead of flying off the damn handle.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>You released the map to a review site. I dunno about you, but when I submit a map for review it's because I think I've come up with something pretty good and look forward to recieving praise. I think you protest too much.

Sure, you are right, you made the map, the map is yours. Thing is you made a promise to give that map to the newdoom megawad project. Exclusively. That's how team projects have always worked.

This is also my last word on this subject.

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 06:50 PM

OK you asked for this...

For one damn thing you don't know me well enough to make that kind of judgement about me. I map out of love of the game, not out of some half assed attempt at recognition, and don't you fucking DARE to think that my motives are the same as yours. ALSO, I needed the opinion of a third party, someone outside of the project team, that would be unbiased in thier opinions and criticisms.

FURTHERMORE, if you scroll up on this thread, you will notice that Doom Dude did not say anything about my submitting the map for review. While it is true that I should have asked first, I did not feel I had to, but I would have had the review withdrawn if he had said anything against it.

FINALLY, while I did agree to give the map to the NewDoom Community Project, I do NOT remember giving exclusive rights to it, nor would I have agreed to that condition in the first place. Here are the rules I agreed to..

The Rules Are:

Maps Must Be For Plain Doom2 (no port)

Maps Must Be As Error Free As Possible

You May use Boom Or Zdoom to Get Rid Of Doom Limits Like Visplanes ( or any other port )

No New Spirits,Music,Sounds,or Textures Just Stick With Stuff From Doom2.wad

There Is No Size Limit But Dont Make A Tiny Tiny Or Mega Huge Map

Difficulty Is Inbetween Easy-Hard

And You May Use Any Style/Theme

There is nothing in there about restricting distribution of the map prior to the project's release, nor is there anything about giving the community project exclusive distribution rights.

Thanks a fat lot for ruining an otherwise good day. I'm having this thread closed by request because it's gone to shit. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm23.gif

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Stphrz

January 18th, 2003, 07:31 PM

you: sent in a map for you to take a look at if you would. I only had the map file on this comp...I'll send you the readme as soon as I can find it. no mention that this was the NDCP map...

brad said: Yup - I got it.

you: Great. I look forward to seeing the review.

ReX: Hi Sam. I remember Wages of Sin, which was a pretty cool map. I'm sure your other maps are equally cool.

You: Hey bro glad to see you back! I've made a few more Doom and Doom 2 maps since...when I get a chance I'll send 'em to you. The latest map I released is a level 30 replacement for Doom 2. Pester Doom Dude for a copy > )no indication that this was the map you sent into the review site. At all. In fact is sounds like it was probably a different map

Doom_Dude: Are you talking about your NDCP map???? If so, ReX probably already played itHere Doom_Dude is obviously unaware of what has actually been transpiring as I was

brad: My review has been posted. Looks pretty good.

The point here is, nobody knew exactly what was going on so nobody could raise any objections. The map being discussed could have been any old map that you had lying around.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>FINALLY, while I did agree to give the map to the NewDoom Community Project, I do NOT remember giving exclusive rights to it, nor would I have agreed to that condition in the first place.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>How generous of you...What happened to mapping for love of the game? What happened to team spirit? Giving exclusive rights to your contribution is what being part of a team is all about. I'll tell you something. I put a fuckload of work into my map. I really pressed myself to do stuff I hadn't done before. There's only one way it's going to be released. As part of the NDCP project. It will be released it's own *ONLY* if the project gets cancelled. That is what I promised.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>There is nothing in there about restricting distribution of the map prior to the project's release, nor is there anything about giving the community project exclusive distribution rights.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Please. Then what the hell would be the point??? Did you not see the forum posts where sparky made it clear that only team members could have access to the maps and resources? Why the hell did Doom_Dude distribute the finished maps by email and put a damned password on the texture wad? Huh? Why take all those measures to ensure secrecy? Huh? Huh?

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

MidnightStorm

January 18th, 2003, 08:07 PM

This argument is not worth continuing with you. I will discuss the matter with Doom Dude, the REAL project leader, and take it from there. The best I can say of you is that you have managed to prove yourself an absolutely arrogant piece of shit. Maybe you should have your nick changed to Linguica becuase your crap is exactly the same type of self righteous bullshit I would expect to hear from him.

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

The Albino Negro [Lüt]

January 19th, 2003, 02:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>The best I can say of you is that you have managed to prove yourself an absolutely arrogant piece of shit.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe, but he's still right.

deepteam

January 19th, 2003, 03:00 PM

Right. Could be some cultural issue at work here? Anyway, when one works as a "team", it's generally accepted that nobody releases anything publicly since that obviously detracts from the final product. It's true that technically there's nothing to keep one from releasing the level, but this isn't about technicalities, it's about customary western "team" rules.

Let's chalk it up as a learning experience. We all make mistakes http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif - making a big deal out of this won't change what happened.

Of course the next time we'll all flame your little ass http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm5.gif

MidnightStorm

January 19th, 2003, 04:14 PM

(nods) I do think I figured out what happened though...I believe my map was the first one that was complete, even before the texture wad for the project was made, so had no idea that everything was supposed to be kept that tight, and I was out of the loop a lot due to an unusually busy holiday season (I was working 36 hour shifts). I have worked in three or four megawad projects previously, but none of them were against releasing individual maps prior to the release of the project. (shrugs) All I can say is that in the future it might be a good idea to set up some sort of project discussion board or find a way to mass mail news and important information.

MS

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Member of the NewDoom Megawad Team

Doom_Dude

January 20th, 2003, 07:53 AM

ACCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK! WHAT THE BLAZING.......?????

I just read most of this disagreement. I hope its all cleared up now.......

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade>FURTHERMORE, if you scroll up on this thread, you will notice that Doom Dude did not say anything about my submitting the map for review. While it is true that I should have asked first, I did not feel I had to, but I would have had the review withdrawn if he had said anything against it.<hr width="100%" size="1" noshade></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't know what map you submitted to be reviewed or I would've said something. I've not been interested in anything doom related since before Christmas so I didn't go to read the review in question or to look and see what map you sent in. I just assumed it was one of your older maps or some other that you worked on. I definitely didn't think you had sent in your NDCP map. I only mentioned your NDCP map when you told ReX to ask me for your map and I asked what map??.

I would've preferred that everyone kept thier wads exclusively for the megawad at least until it was done. Oh well, that's the way it goes. That's just my opinion though. Heh I'm not even a fan of demo releases.

Furthermore I'm not the leader, Sparky is.

It's your map and you can do what you want with it MS. Id never ask to have it removed from where it's been reviewed especially if that's been done already.

Well your both right I guess and I don't want to pick sides in this. That always bothers me big time when 2 people start fighting over something. Like wtf do you say to please both yet remains true to what you think is right?

Hope ya calmed down Stphrz.

Hope your having a better day Midnight.

Is the war over?

Now I don't feel much like mapping. I have the bleaghs. :/

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http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/sig/vilesig1.GIF (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/ndcp)
http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad/Ndcp/themegawad.JPG (http://www.newdoom.com/hosted/themegawad)
----Linedef Technician and Sector Maker Upper----