Intelligence VS Hordes!

[Doom_Dude]

I was thinking that the New DooM game should have mixed AI. I say let there be some monsters with sharp, cunning AI, who can hunt your ass down or set nasty ambushes. The other monsters like Imps and Zombies could be like in the olde game, with lower AI, but tend to overwhelm you with thier numbers. Whatta ya all think?

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[Stphrz]

'zactly http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm35.gif

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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? -Captain Beefheart

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BOO!

[REoL]

That would work well, but for Nightmare skill, all monsters have superior AI, and not only that, will learn your gaming style, just like Descent did.


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King REoL
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[Ultimate Doom]

http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm3.gif

as long as theyre AI isnt smart enough to let them drop a weapon and bick up another. I mean, what if a zombie finds a bfg? eh..

[Finite]

HAHA

Would be funny to watch him fiddle with it and end up firing it backwards and blow himself up or something http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Life is Finite. Doom Hard.
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[Doom_Dude]

LOL.....Or he acidentally blows up a nest of Imps http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/wink.gif

Descent http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm13.gif .

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[REoL]

Now if a monster drops their weapon and picks up the BFG, you KNOW you're in for a challenging fight! Maybe the monsters will only have BFG's in Nightmare skill. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

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King REoL
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[Ultimate Doom]

haha thats brutal, i think they should be able to pick up other weapons, i wonder if id can make them do that. Uh.. imagine the cybie with a bfg in his other hand, o.. outa rockets, "doom laughs at cybies misfortune". "Cybie grins and pulls out a bfg he had hidden in his leg and grins at doom".
Doom: "eep!" http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm34.gif

[REoL]

That would be something. Better yet, the Spider Mastermind has 6 quick-firing BFG's, like his gatling gun. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/eek.gif


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King REoL
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REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
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[Finite]

LOL

That's about the time when I'd be thinking
"I GOTTA GET THE FOOOK OUTTA HERE..... "
before I get splattered by BFG energy shiznit thingys http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Life is Finite. Doom Hard.
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[REoL]

At least you can see the BFG shots coming. Put 6 Railguns on him, ouch, no reaction time. Then again, Railguns are so Quake anyway.


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[Da Man]

Damn you guys want to make the game impossible. Just FUCKING think about. Running from a frenzy of soilders who are armed with Big Fucking Gunns. And the AI thing seems interesting but damn think about.
You leave a bunch of goods that you don't need
right now for later. You then need them go back find out there missing thinking why, suddenly ambushed by say, a Demon who you can't kill because the piece of shit got too many meds.

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Hey hey, now I'm back and here to stay, listen what I have to say.

[REoL]

It could be like a TeamTNT add-on, where it's always impossible to win. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif


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King REoL

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The Long Hair Army

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[Da Man]

Yeah, just imagine if someone were to ask you
if you beat it. Then you say yes and everyone calls you a cheater. Peolpe need to think of hard levels not impossible. Like my gay cousins one level. It was Tricks and Traps from DooM 2 loaded with about 15 cyberdemons, 30 pain elemants,and about 30 reverants. Talk about dumb. Hardly added any goods. Of course thats why I call him gay (if its true or not).

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Hey hey, now I'm back and here to stay, listen what I have to say.

[REoL]

This is where PLAYTESTING comes in handy.
Why do people do that crap? Toughness AND doability for the average gamer is a tough thing to achieve.
I could plug Satan's Castle as an example, but I won't. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif


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King REoL

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[Shiv_Timberwolf]

Yeah! Hordes! I miss Doom's way of swamping you with baddies!
-Shiv

[Aliotroph?]

Why should a zombie with a BFG be hard to kill? Happens all the time in deathmatch and other players are faster than zombies.

Monsters should have intelligence affected by emotions like fear and hate. That would be really really scary.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[The Undertaker]

And hard to program.

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

It would be nice to see demons making tactical retreats at times, and even working together to try to trick / trap you.
-Shiv

[Aliotroph?]

On a simple level, faking emotions shouldn't be too hard. For example, if a monster has a friend and you kill the friend, he should become angry and seek revenge (more ruthless, doesn't follow team, etc). There could be randomization so different monsters react differently. A fearful monster would hang back and be less likely to charge you. If these effects were randomized the game would be very different every time you played.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[The Undertaker]

Replay value, the thing that keeps you coming back for more. Except is a level is planned to have monsters act a certain and they don't, well you can the level would probably suck. But a have emotions attribute could be set for the monsters.

[Aliotroph?]

That could work; although I think the addition of emotions would severely limit the need to design levels with monsters that act a specific way. You still could do it, but the random factor would make the game so much more playable time after time. Combined with good AI (the kind that appears to learn and think - or actually does), this would be an awesome asset.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[The Undertaker]

Lets not give id any ideas now. After seeing what they did with graphics on Doom3, they might go even half as far with AI, meaning some pretty damn smart imps (an IQ of 666 at least).

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

Put it this way, even the first Doom had something that hints at this (your face on the status bar changing when things get rough). And other games have already incorporated various emotion-based tactics.
It is possible, and yes, it would increase the playability of the game enormously. As long as they don't make the mistake of AvP, which is to have all the baddies in the level actively seek you out. This meant no safe-points and huge spaces of no baddies.
-Shiv

[Aliotroph?]

Having enemies all actively seek out the player indicates a lack of coordinated strategy among the monsters. If they team up sometimes and work together the game will be better and that won't happen.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

I loved the way Marines would run away from grenades in HL. That was well done.
It would be great to see the baddies using real tactics like traps, luring you into an ambush, sneaking around you to shoot you in the back of the head (like so many annoying people on deathmatch!)
Thinking about it, it would really be awsome to see them working in squadrons. But then again, that may not be Demon-like behaviour. We never really got an idea of how intelligent the demons were supposed to be and how altruistic and cooperative (with each otehr) they were. Maybe they were self-driven, killing only for their own good etc.
-Shiv

[Aliotroph?]

The soldiers in HL acted like you said but most of that was partially scripted. The zombies in DooM are supposed to be stupid methinks, but some of the others might work together (at least with their own species).

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

Good point, I almost forgot about the inter-species tension. lol.
Yeah, it would be fun to see more of that coming through. Perhaps seeing a couple of inter-species fights/arguments.
-Shiv

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"Preserve wildlife: Pickle a squirrel"

[Aliotroph?]

It would also be interesting if monsters had friends and tried to save them.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

*puts on best demon voice*
You fragged my mate!

lol
-Shiv

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"Preserve wildlife: Pickle a squirrel"

[Aliotroph?]

Maybe the players could have affairs with zombie chicks too. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm1.gif

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

Hmmm....sounds too Duke3D-esque for me.
-Shiv

[Aliotroph?]

Yeah probably.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Doom_Dude]

Blasting the demons! You're supposed to be blasting them not humping them! http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm27.gif

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[Demon Slayer]

Okay, this is how I think the intelligence should be done.
Here is a list of the varying IQ status':
0-80: Dumb
81-108: Average
109-150: Very Smart
151-200: Superior
201-1000: God-Like

Doom Guy: 107
Zombie: 50
Imp: 103
Demon/Spectre: 55
Baron: 120
Knight: 90
Cacodemon: 20
Lost Soul: 60
Pain Elemental: 20
Revenant: 137
Arch-Vile: 200
Arachnotron: 160
Cyberdemon: 120
Spider Mastermind: 1000
Any Boss Demon: 666

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Hmmm... Kill the demon or let it live? BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

[HyperFlash]

But what happens to their I.Q. if they get a head injury?

[The Undertaker]

gibs on ground: 1337

[HyperFlash]

I'd sure hate to encounter those dudes! http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm20.gif

[the_Danarchist]

Why would cacos have less IQ than zombies. Zombies should only have about 5 IQ on that scale. Cacos should have at least 50.

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[logjon2]

The only thing I see with an IQ over 4 that would work with others is the spider. Maybe I'm just biased because I can see the big-ass brain.

[logjon2]

"Okay, this is how I think the intelligence should be done.
Here is a list of the varying IQ status':
0-80: Dumb
81-108: Average
109-150: Very Smart
151-200: Superior
201-1000: God-Like
Doom Guy: 107
Zombie: 50
Imp: 103
Demon/Spectre: 55
Baron: 120
Knight: 90
Cacodemon: 20
Lost Soul: 60
Pain Elemental: 20
Revenant: 137
Arch-Vile: 200
Arachnotron: 160
Cyberdemon: 120
Spider Mastermind: 1000
Any Boss Demon: 666"

Can't forget fatass. How's 100 sound for blubber boy? And I think you mixed up the zombie's IQ with the Cacodemon.

Also, to some earlier post:
I really don't see zombies being smart enough to pick up a better gun. It requires logic and reason to see that a plasma rifle will deal more damage than the shotgun. It doesn't require much brainpower, but it requires more than I see in the zombies.

[logjon2]

Umm . . . I didn't mean to post this . . . I can't delete my post . . . can someone delete this post?

[Aliotroph?]

LOL That's pretty funny. What did you post before you edited it? http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smilies/cwm27.gif

Sorry, I just can't help finding this funny. It doesn't really matter because you can edit your posts to make sure you don't say things you don't want. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/smile.gif

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[logjon2]

I tried editing the post before it, and when it didn't show up, I just added what I wanted to say in a following post(the one that I now want deleted.) Of course, after I made the second post my edits showed up. I guess that's my punishment for being impatient . . . look like a dumbass. As if that's anything new.

[Aliotroph?]

Sounds like you just had to refresh the page. The damn cache does that a lot. IE never seems to know when to look for new content.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[logjon2]

Yep, I figured that out a little to late though. And that god damn post is still there.

[pritch]

hello those who already know me, and to those who don't.

Those who do, you know Lüt has somewhat screwed me of late, so I've come here to play a little.

heh, I'm a more senior member here having posted once now than I am at DW.

Anyways, I think some people are abusing the [img] tags a bit, but never mind.

Right, let's do it!

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[Aliotroph?]

People always abuse those damn things. Some of their stuff is really fun though.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark