How to scare the Hell out of the player!

[Zack]

Throughout the message board have been various suggestions about how id should be able to truely scare the player of the game. Well, this topic should hopefully gather all the ideas here.

Obviously, we want id to scare us in the same way they have scared us before. Even if you were 10 years old when you first played Doom (okay well, I was) and some parts don't scare you anymore, it is vital to keep that stuff in. Hey...think of it as a favor for those kids whose first game will be new Doom...just like ours was Doom.

Here is what I can remember as the scariest moments playing id's games.
Wolfenstein 3D. I'll tell ya, when those SS Nazis snuck up when I looked the wrong direction first, walking through a door, I chirped out a bit of a scream when one began firing his machinegun into the back of my neck. Also, for the bosses that required more ammo to kill with than I could hold at once, I was forced to run elsewhere and search for more. When you pop out of the dark hidden passageway, you have absolutely no idea where Grosse went off to. Seeking him out is truely scary. The same goes for Hitler in episode 3!

Doom. Being the first game with dynamic lighting, this was, in consequence, the first game with dark rooms and areas (okay okay...there was also Wizardry but that's not the same thing!!). Five years ago, I was afraid to venture into E1M2's maze. I didn't know what I'd find. As I started to work up the nerve to go in, I found my self quickly hitting ESC, the up arrow, ENTER, and Y. Getting up from the chair I turned to my older brother and said, "You can play!" As with Wolf3D, finding where the Cyberdemons in e2m8 and map32 wandered off to is extrmely frightening.
Quake. The fiend, definately. His overall appearance and the way he can jump like a gigantic spider or flea makes your heart race.
Quake II. Listening to the THUMP, THUMP of Makron lurking in the room above me in Boss2 was nerve-racking. Also, the underwater points in Quake2 is where my phobia kicks in: I have a fear of sharks. And swimming in an engine that is not designed for you to swim well in, in waters that are infested with eyeless baracudas...well, you can see where I'm going.
As for non-id games, some of those scared me too! The eerie music in the dungeon-maze of the 7th Guest (woo!), and the Chases in the not-so-popular Are You Afraid Of The Dark game (You can only hear it chasing you, but the primitive point-and-click engine prevented realtime sprites or any way of leting you know just how close it was! You couldn't turn around...and when it finlly jumps in front of you and grabs you....damn!)

That's pretty much the stuff that scared me in the past games. I'm sure there is much more that I cannot remember. Also, there should be in new Doom many different things for each phobia that different people have. There are fears of heights, water(like me), spiders, noises, just to name a few.

Everyone post your own individual phobias here! You don't have to get into detail but an example would be nice. Also try to include the main scary parts in the games you've played.

Also, a suggestion directed to id, if you guys ever see this: Go watch the movie Poltergeist, directed by Steven Speilburg. That should inspire you! 100% level dynamics and many new ways to display effects, and more.

Sorry for the extremely long post!!! Hope it was worth it :)

--Zack


[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 07-15-2000).]

[roark314]

I've got an awesome idea for a monster/boss of some sort...

Has anyone seen Little Nemo? It's kind of a little kid cartoon movie, but if you've seen it... Remember the nightmare they let out of it's big evil door? Seeing and having to battle something that looked and moved like that would be nuts!

[Zack]

Heh never heard of that movie. What's it about? If it sounds interesting enough I might look for it.

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Nevermind little nemo or whatever that is . Anything that suddenly comes outta the pitch dark is scary . Like the spiders in Hexen 2 that make skittering noises in the dark and jump outta nowhere . Then you have those berserkers in Quake 2 , that run out of a alcove and slam you over a ledge . Those demonic rats ( the Xaphan ) , in Requiem Avenging Angel , liked to suddenly come outta nowhere in a pack . Little viscious bas#$*ds chewed the crap out of me in the sewers .

A very intense battle with Tryxinos ( boss monster in Requiem ) , a lieutenant of Hell , made me all on edge as i fought him in that cramped room . You had to use your grenade launcher and the warp time spell ( short duration ) to defeat the demon . One of the finest and most , heart pounding , boss battles in gaming . If you never fought this dude then you be missing out on something cool .

Anytime your playin' a game and suddenly you hear a weird noise that you never heard before , and you wonder : "what the hell was that" ? Well thats creepy .

While playin Opposing Force you enter a new area and the screen displays Pitworms Nest and you hear it makin' a strange noise . You can't be sure if this worm thing is gonna come flyin' outta nowhere . The level starts and you see some dead grunts and it gives you the creeps , because you be wondering what this thing is that killed them . Yeah thats creepy . Then you see the thing and you say "Wtf is that" !

Yeah , scary stuff is good , as long as it isn't overdone .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 06-26-2000).]

[King_Ralph]

This is how you make a game scary...

HAVE NO SAVES!!!

As well as having really small enemies that make horrible noises and kill you quickly. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Zack]

Sitting alone at an old desk in the dark corner of an abandoned house, Bob is pressing buttons and staring intently at the glow of the computer monitor. Arthritis has had its claim on Bob's neck, shoulders, and other joints for years; he hasn't turned, or even looked away from his screen for over thirty-five years. The number of spiderwebs growing on and around Bob increases all the time, and now Bob looks almost as if he is wrapped in a cocoon. The spiders wait patiently for his weak heart, slowly pumping throughout Bob's body his only source of food, to quietly end its life-lasting action. The new Doom is a very, very long game.

But Bob started a new game way back, when he was just a teenager. And now, he could feel it: he was approaching the very end of the game. Getting excited, he realized this would be a great place to stop, anticipate the ending, eat breakfast. So Bob hit the Pause button on the keyboard, and bit open the scab on his lip, began sucking.

Bob's blood cannot recover its amount as quickly as it is being used in digestion. In fact, normally, Bob's own blood shouldn't have been enough to keep him satisfied. But for the past three and a half decades, he needed only rely on the recycling iron in his body, for he never moved, never talked, never slept. Nevertheless, his life supplies were finally on the borderline, his body could take no more, and it was ready to die.

Completing his meal, Bob hit the Pause button again and resumed the game. Behind that door, he knew, was the main boss of the game, the end of Doom, which had gotten many reviews, years ago, for its TERRIFIC storyline tie-ups and boss! His chest aching as his heart struggled to inconceivably pound a little harder, a little faster, Bob moved his player forward and approached the door. The door began to open, and--

The power went out. The heat from the age-old PC began to drain away, and the fan slowed quickly. There was silence.

Bob's eyes remained widened, and the scabbed, torn lips on his icy, wan face slowly pulled up into a wild, tormented grin. His heart ceased, gave up. The spiders knew their time, as Bob's pale, cool body grew even colder and whiter, and they scurried in through the openings in his body, ready to feast.

--Zack

[Zack]

And the moral of the story is, DUH, Ralph doesn't know what he's talking about! No saves. HAHAHA! I laugh at you, Ralph! Don't take it personally, bud :)

[CheapTrick]

In HL when i was crawling tru the ventilation
sytem and it broke, and i crached down on the
floor below... turned around and looked right
inn the face off those two grunts.
That kinda got my atention.

And those little buggers that sudently jumped
right inn my face when i least expected it.

"u turn on your flashlight to get som idea off
the distanse to the next corner... Clik BOM!!! SqEEE!
Takkatakkatakktakka. Eat lead u....."

Corners in games and things like the vents...
are my fobias.
They gets my hart pumping.
Then i took and played a little doom last nite.
And noticed all those secret doors they used
too get the same effect.
Soo it! is there inn there original Doom's
Ready too get implemented inn the new one.

It is there in the Quake series too but for
some reason it dossent work.
Mybee it is all those halways and the choise
off collors they used inn it.

But i like the Aliens movie running inn the airvent stuff.
And espesially if something is behind u and
u cant se it... but it is closing inn on u...
And something may stand around the corner ust
waiting for u too come runnig like a maniac...
Then! BOOOOO!!!
And u get innwolved a crazy shoot out 8))

But the worst solution they somethimes makes
in games too make things harder and more exiting is this.
Ure always low on ammo... like in SystemChock2.

That is not making it more exiting only more irritating.
I wanna shoot tha pop gun... not run around
on a newer ending surch for ammo.
And when u finaly find some then it is only 10 shells for the shootgun.
I dont think that is a good solution
It is more fun for the player too be able too
do a LOT! off target practise on multible targets instead.
And if it is posible to make the AI seek cover like
the grunts does in HL then it is poosible
to have a shoot out whit some monsters
last loonger.
Espesially if when u have the "one shoot one kill" stuff.
It then is upp too the plaers ability to hit
the target that is getting the blood flowing.

"Damn i missed it!!! arghhh ratatatata.."

(U run around a crate too seek cover so u could
reload the pop gun... wow the crate morphes in too a cyberdemon u stear at the morphing taking place. argh they made som new improvments sinse the last time i was here u think.
U turn to run out the door u came inn but Damn. it is goone...
Its just not there anymore.
In the corner on the other side u se a airvent..
U turn and start running like crazy u melt the cover of it using the new lasercutter.
Jumps inn and crawls inn too safty...
At least u think u where but the auto cleaning system just desided it was time too start up... u can feal the cleaner robot working its way
closer and closer NOOOO! what the...
this aint my lucky day....

8) )

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah , low ammo overkill is a pain in the ass . I guess System Shock 2 used this to the extreme , where every round must count towars a kill . I wan't to let my chaingun flow through rounds like a horde of bees descending on a flower . I like to have rounds chipping the stone out of a doorway as the enemy within' takes cover or dies . Eat lead you fraggin' monster !

WHOAH ! Zack dude ! That was some , fraggin' awesome , decriptive writing . Very cool . Hehe , i wonder if the old King_Ralph got the message ! Sort of rantish and funny . Decades of playin' Doom and what does Bob get ? A power outage ! Man did i ever laugh ! Everyone here things i'm insane , laughing at my computer like that .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 06-27-2000).]

[Zack]

Are you kidding? I laugh at my screen all the time! I always see funny things. I think I'm going to annoy everyone at the movies as I laugh horrendously at the bits and peices of Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle that are only the tiniest bit funny. 20 years ago. "OH MAN THAT'S GREAT! AHAHAHA! THEY GOT RUN OVER BY A CAR! ROCKY CAN'T FLY! THIS IS RICH!!" And everyone is scowling at me and leaving or looking for an usher or walking toward me ready to kick my sorry ass....I have such an imagination.

I'd like to see individual bullets have effects on the enemy. In every game, lets use the original Doom for example, it's unlike this. You shoot just enough rockets at a cyberdemon to waste him with one more pistol shot, but he is not weakened the tiniest bit! It makes it look quite a bit unrealistic.

Perhaps, after the first few shots on an enemy, if it hurts him a bit, he'd fall back or scream or grab the area that got shot. (Please don't let me see screenies of imps clutching their nuts!) If they get hurt and are near death, like the cyb with 1 health point left, they should be crawling after you, trying to get one last kick at you, trying to take you down with them. If the cyberdemon crawling in pain gets close enough, he can still hurt you, whack his rocket-launcher arm on your head, stuff like that. I'm tired of wasting all my ammo on two enemies, havin them near-dead, but still no noticable effect on them.

Also, even though locational damage sucks, it would be nice to have at least SOME pinpointed differences. The cyberdemon's rocket-arm may ricochet bullets off of it and won't take damage that way. And perhaps the cyb's weak spot would be in the abdomenal area; it is very thin there and a bullet can penetrate right through the other side, pulling apart a few 'wires' or veins supporting the cyb.

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah , the near death Cyberdemon crawls over to you and tries to club you to death with his rocket arm . The beast just doesn't have the strength to fire one more rocket , so he starts chewing on your ankle like a demented rat . That would be funny . Say , where do these Cyberdemon guys keep all those huge rockets ? They must have deep pockets !

But , all kinds of unrealistic stuff appears in games . Like how do you injest a soulsphere , without getting lockjaw . How is it that a simple medkit can heal you so fast when all you did was walk on the thing ? How can the player carry all that gear ?

Yet , what you say is true . When a monster like a Baron is one hit point away from death , the critter looks fine . With one shot from the pop gun , the demon suddenly turns into a lump a crapola . I don't like the loacation damage thing either . The challenge of fighting a tough monster is defeated by the one shot to the head trick . I don't see how , blowing a creatures arm off is supposed to make a better game . Funny the first time you do it , but boring and stupid after the hundreth time .

I like the Quake 2 style of damage that creatures showed after taking a lot of hits . If they could use that system , plus make monsters stagger , accidently blast a buddy , trip and fall into a hole , etc..... , just before death . Then that would be cool .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

THAT would be funny, watching a monster waving it's arms around in circles, tottering on the edge of a deep hole and then flipping forward and plunging in :) Or maybe slipping and sliding on ice or a floor with a film of slime on it...

Soul Spheres aren't ingested. According to the Doom novels, they are absorbed. Upon contact, they splash all over you, and writhe their liquid in through your skin, healing your wounds quickly. (I'd LOVE to see that in new Doom, real time!!)

Perhaps cyberdemons don't carry their infinite supply of rockets with them at all. Perhaps each time one fires, a new rocket, from a huge storage area inaccessable to you, is teleported into his launcher, ready to go.

[King_Ralph]

Everyone laughs at me. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Doom_Dude]

Ummmmmm , Zack . I think you made the old King_Ralph all sad and stuff .

Hey King_Ralph , it's just that your no save game idea seems twisted to us . Sorry that we're all unbelievers , but the idea is so weird that we can't help but make fun . I couldn't help but chuckle at the funny story Zack posted . Sorry dude .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-01-2000).]

[Finite]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH

Doom_dude and Zack are the funniest.. HAHAHAHA

as far as scary stuff... definitely the vents in HL gave me the creeps

i remember crawling along with my flashlight pointed ahead... minding my own business... then i hear a headcrab jumping at me... i literally jumped out of my chair, then quickly spun my mouse around and blasted the damn thing... that game got me pumped http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

also in Alone in the Dark.... one time i cleared an area of zombies... and went into a room and searched around. When i had finished searching (still in search mode if any of u have played the game).. i went to the door and opened it. BAH!! S***!! i screamed.. a bloody zombie was waiting right at the door!! i quickly pressed enter.. got me rifle out and blew that sucker away... but damn it scared the s*** out of me!!

Suprises are scary. Suspense is scary. Music and erie sound effects can add suspense and scare the hell out of people. This is good stuff http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

Being on 10 health, no armour, with only a pistol... hiding in a dark area.. and then hearing the "DA DUM DA DUM" of a cyberdemon walking by... THAT IS SCARY.

Also... things that are nearly dead crawling towards you are scary. Especially if they fake death and wait for you to turn around.. before crawling up to you and biting your ankles http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

------
Finite

[Doom_Dude]

I played Thief : The Dark Project Gold , and at one point they send you to the ruined part of the city ( can't remember exact name of level ) , and the place is crawling with zombies and ghostly , undead , Hammerite priests . The level design is spooky , with lots of leaning builings , caved in roofs , rotten timbers that emerge from the mossy ground . The place has creepy , dark corners and multiple routes to confuse the player ( but not too confusing ) . Very creepy .

Anyways i was in this ruined building , when i heard a weird clickering and skittering noise that made my skin crawl . No words on this planet can describe the exact sound . As i peered into a big hole in the wooden floor that revealed a dark , musty basement , i saw a strange creature that resembled a walking insect . I dropped a mine into the hole and the thing set it off , but kept on moving . It went off into the darkness and i heard it no more . At this point i said to myself : " i ain't jumpin' down into that place " !

The scarier moment came much later . I discovered a underground passage . I black jacked some Burricks and went deep into the underground . Eventually i entered a room that had a hole in the ceiling .

Thats when i realised that i was looking up into the very room that i had been looking down into earlier . Very creepy . So where the hell is this weird insect creature that walks on mines and keeps walking ?? I immediately retraced my steps and got the hell outta there and i ain't going back there either . Thief is a sneaking game and you really don't have many powerfull weapons like plasma guns and stuff . So i crept the hell away from there and saved my fire arrows for those , big assed , creepy , hairy , jiant , spiders , that i found later on in the ruins .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-04-2000).]

[Finite]

Some of these ideas rule. Id should use some of the ideas in HL, Thief, and even Alone in the Dark.. and improve on them. We have been scared in the past, and I'm sure id can scare us again

------
Finite

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah , scary is a good concept as long as they don't go overboard with it . I think Thief used the big spiders perfectly . They appeared in only a couple places in the ruins . This is scary , because you think that , a spider will be around every corner . It freaks you out when you move from building to building and........................nothing ! It creeps ya , because your all tensed up to have a big spider jump outta nowhere and ..........your alone , but your not sure . After a time , your walking along and ...........ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! A zombie walks by , scaring the crap outta you .



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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Finite]

EXACTLY!

You have to have moments of tension... and then allow the tension to subside... and the gamer relaxs... only to scare the SHITE out of them just when they feel the most secure... now that takes skill to pull off but I'm sure those smart guys at id can do it http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Zack]

Yes, that's what they hire level designers for :)

I still think they should also hire a story / script writer too. Dean Koontz is perfect for the job.

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah , Zack . One thing that id always seemed to be a little sketchy on is the story . I think Quake 2 had a good base for a story but needed much more info to help flesh out the world of the Stroggians .

Yeah , done right a story line that unfolds during gameplay can add a lot to a game . Yeah id dudes , flesh out the story this time . Make it unfold and ............. oh , yeah . They ain't gonna do this ! I think they hate big assed stories in games .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Doom_Dude]

I stood alone in the ruins , amongst the deep shadows . Ahead i hear a steady , click , click , click , click , noise .

As i peek around a brick wall i see a massive spider , patrolling the small bridge . I know that if it sees me i am gonna freak ! If it sees the light from my fire arrow it's gonna come for me .

I slide myself out into the open shadows and watch the creepy beast . A chill crosses my spine . I have one chance . One shot . A miss here will bring the spider running .

As the thing walks towards me , i draw my bow and sight on the bridges center . The spider turns to walk back across the bridge . I loose my arrow and hold my breath . The arrow flys like an angel of death . Before it hits i realise i have fired the most perfect shot . So perfect that in a million years of shooting , i would never be able to do it again so nicely .

The fire arrow slams the spider broadside . It walked into the flying bolt . It crumples and dies . Curls up with eight legs in the air . Good bye you f***er !

I saved the game immediately ! Yeah that was creepy . Very intense moment in gaming . Yeah even Thief is creepy .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

[two months later] DoomDude: They are not called "Stroggians," they are called the Strogg. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Just saw House on Haunted Hill the other night. This story kept a Doomish theme (serious! similar to e1m2) only scarier! It actually spooked me quite a few times http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif Maybe using the type of atmosphere that was in HoHH would be good. The Darkness that creeped around in the walls until the end (similar to Ghost's hell-shadows), the gore, the big tank (psychotic scene), wow that would make an awesome Doom!

Wow I started this post before school let out. Now I'm back in school. Ack.

--Zack

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"You wanna see something REALLY scary?"

[BioRock]

dont laugh but when i was 3 years old....my father put me in the front of the TV, put an SMS pad in the hand, put the WonderBoy #1 cartidge in the SMS, turn it on and let me alone in front of this beast!!!(believe it or not......) i begin to cry....cry...and cry again i dont know why but i was very frightened........i begin to ran outdoor and cry again...... that was the worst time of my life........

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I'm not a single rock.....I'm your badest nightmare.....I wanna hear you pain....

[Pred]

I think dark maze like areas are really scarry. Everytime I have to venture into a dark mazy area in a game like Doom or Quake Im always pushing the quicksave button.

As for Doom_Dude's soul sphere thing, The soul spheres are filled with goop and when you touch em they pop on you and heal your wounds. It says so in the DooM novels too! hehe.

[Pred]

Oh yeah! And for scarry enemies, anything that's spider like freaks me out like the Arachnotrons. Nothing scarrier then running in a dull room and hearing 6 of em wake up and start chasing you with their metal legs and plasma rifles. Or the Demons, stupid fast running pigs that grunt everywhere and run fast.

[Zack]

Actually, the only things in my opinion about Doom that are considered 'official' are whatever appeared in the game itself. The novels don't count, because the authors wrote down -their own- interpretations. I thought the slimey goop was rediculous. In the mythos outpost, part of my latest story kinda lets you know how I feel about that! http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

But Doom_Dude's idea of swallowing it isn't too bad. The soul sphere could simply be a jawbreaker. hehehe.

--Zack

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"You wanna see something REALLY scary?"

[WickedOne]

The lost souls used to freak me out when i turned a corner, especially if you have fast monsters on.

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Marine = Exorcist

or something

[Empyrial Revenant]

How about having some of the monsters be able to break through walls. I mean after awhile that cyberdemon should be able to blast through to get to you.

It would be very scary to be walking down a path and suddenly a Baron of hell punches through the wall in front of you

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Let the world die
So be it

[Finite]

I think sound has a lot to do with scary things... such as the lost souls, the headcrabs in HL (scared the **** out of me), and the massive blue fire guys in HL... of course the cyberdemon's footsteps come in here http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyone played Deus ex? The bots in that are pretty scary once you see how EASILY they can absolutely destroy you... so when u hear them walk and the ground shakes (yes ... the ground actually shakes beneath you! its cool http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif) you tend to crawl away into some dark spot and hope they won't see you. And yeah it'd be cool if a cyberdemon chased you through a level, blowing walls apart whenever he hears you move, and all you hear are explosions and that *THUD* *THUUUUDD* etc http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Doom_Dude]

Sounds can drive a player crazy. Some of the sounds in Thief were very creepy. Especially the sound of the shuffling Zombies and the sound of the walking and hissing spiders. Even the lava had a weird groaning, bubbling, hissing sound that was creepish.

Hopefully they will gear up some really cool and creepy sounds in the new Doom.

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

I agree with the sounds. Thank god id are spending more time with sounds this time! That'll make it even scarier!

*thinks about the cyb shuffling around WHERE IS HE I DUNNO !!! SHUDDER*

[Doom_Dude]

Sounds coming through a good soundcard and outta mediocre, speakers is ok, but when I scrapped my generic soundcard (came with my computer straight from store) and I put in a new Soundblaster X-gamer and replaced the shitty $15.00 dollar speakers with the Cambridge Soundworks speakers, I couldn't believe what awesome sounds I was missing. Suddenly I was hearing Doom like it never sounded before. With the subwoofer cranked up, just the breathing of the Zombies is more awesome and beefier than ever. The music now sounds totally unbelievable and I'm hearing little things like chimes and stuff I never noticed before. The drums and bass really rock more solid and I can't wait to hear the new Doom game with these speakers. Hell, my computer sounds better than my Stereo system.

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

Sadly, I was stuck with the sound card that came with this now-dead computer for three years. It totally sucked. But I installed an unused SB64 and things sounded SO much better! I can't wait to get my *drool* new computer with SB Live...

I still have the crappy multimedia speakers that came with this PC though. But getting new speakers is far from priority at the moment. *CRY* Doom isn't running anymore. *sniff* It restarts the system every time I try to run it. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Doom_Dude]

Damn. Just when you got your pc running again it went and failed ya. *sniff*

Sometimes my computer bugs out and crashes. Hope this helps a little. *sigh*

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile . (I'm Talkin' ArchVile!!!!)

[Finite]

Well I just hooked up my stereo to my computer a week ago, adding another 2 speakers to the mix. That makes a total of 7 SPEAKERS!! (4 front, 2 back, 1 subbie) And yes, they all operate at once http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif Hrrmm I think I told you guys about this some other time, did I? Or am I just going insane? Probably the latter. Anyways, the sound is AWESOME... absolutely massive, but my parents are home most of the time and they always ask me to turn it down. GRRRRR. So I turn it up EXTRA loud when they're away http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Finite (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Sub Demon]

No, NO NO no, I will never venture into the halls of the damned (E2M7or8) again! My GAMA correction was screwed up and I was low on ammo and it was dark, and I could hear them coming and noooo... never again!

[Doom_Dude]

So Finite, when you crank it up and fire off the double barrelled shotgun, do the windows shake? Does all the fur fly off the dog and do the neighbors head for the bomb shelter? Hahaaha.

Hey Sub Demon........cool nick. But how can a demon be scared of the dark? Thats sorta weird.

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile . (I'm Talkin' ArchVile!!!!)

[Finite]

HAhaha Doom_dude, not quite, but when I pump up the subbie to full my table, seat and other equipment around me shakes due to the SSG blast. w00t! http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif
And firing off plasma rounds is just something else. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Death Squad Member 666]

Hey there people...I am new to this Newdoom message board. I just became a member today.

I would just like to say that I have the Klipsch Pro Media speakers. With the environmental effects set to "hangar" in my surround mixer menu of the Creative SB Live! ( MP3 version ) and playing through these speakers...all I can say is "Oh my God !"
The echo of weapons and monster sounds is nothing short of incredible in Doom !
I wish I could convey to you all just how magnificent Doom and Doom II can sound.
In ZDoom, when you open a secret area, the bass thunders so loud it just vibrates the whole house. The chaingun and handgun shots are just too painfully loud to handle !
The shotgun is surly louder and more powerful than the real thing !
And all of this power and volume at about 15% on the master volume dial on the command satellite speaker. 400 watts of analog stereo is alot I know, but these Klipsch speakers are just insane !
I pity all who don't have good speakers, since I believe that the music and sound effects are at least 50% of the play experience, if not more...

------------------
Now they learn why they are afraid of the Dark. Now they learn why they Fear the Night.

[Death Squad Member 666]

I do not understand all of this talk about being scared when playing Doom.

When I first played Doom, I did not understand anything about how the 3D graphics engine worked. Everything was a mistery. The only "fear" I had was my own ignorance of the technology behind the dumb little demon sprites...
Once DoomCAD had stripped away all of the mistery, Doom was just a game.
I can't really say I ever had a scary moment playing Doom. Just annoying frustration when I performed an incorrect maneuver to avoid a cacodemon's plasma orb, and it slammed into me causing instant death.
The rest of the time I just played with glazed eyes, on autopilot. The game is just so damn easy once you master the straif keys.
Getting hit is unheard of, except when you screw up your coordination...
Only Death Match offers any challenge.

Speaking of Death Match, when I used to play Doom II on modem in DM, we always played cooperatively, and fought the bad-asses together. Only when the level was clear did we take shots at each other for awhile.
It was just more fun to take on the monsters together, cover each others backs, develop "raiding" techniques.
I don't know what's wrong with the world today...seems all people want to do is blow each other up with rockets. Why not play together against the enemy, and finish the game together ?!
Anyone else agree with me on this ?



------------------
Now they learn why they are afraid of the Dark. Now they learn why they Fear the Night.

[BioRock]

surely, the coop game are always better, but why playing on internet when we can play with our friend on one pc with legacy and really make fun....

------------------
hey.... check everywhere!!! the life is beautyful!!!!
I'm Blind...that's not my fault...

[Death Squad Member 666]

Fear in a Video Game can be a powerful influence on the weak minded. Instead of fear all I ever got was frustration.

Entering a dimly lit room, only to be slashed to death my a hidden group of Imps, is not scary, does not invoke feelings of terror,dread,panic,horror,fright or anything.
I just curse,hit F9 & quickload again to where I was outside the room, and this time cleanse the room first with a rocket or two...
I always remain firmly grounded in reality
I also find that loud music and effects severely disrupts my coordination ability, and I always end up turning it off when I am playing seriously.

If id software want's to scare the player, they just have to set many elements of the game outside, at night. Oh, and please give the central character in the game a Flashlight will ya' !?
You know, so we can look into the shadows of a dark room befor entering. Equiping the Doomtrooper with a full compliment of United States Special Forces hardware would be logical too.
ALL weapons right from the get-go of the game. I'm tired of this "finding ammo" crap in games...since when have you found any ammo just lying around on the curb somewhere ? Oh sure, maybe a casing from last night's drive-by, but no real live ammo clips.
You must be required to utilize weapons from civilian gun stores, and the occasional gun toting zombie police officer...
Ammo should have a real physical weight, and slow you down...you should get tired...carry your own water and food too. You will have a PDA too, which you can use to communicate with UAC Headquarters an any time.

Anyway, I will be happy with DOOM III whatever it is like. And if it falls short, maybe HALO will be some good...

------------------
Now they learn why they are afraid of the Dark. Now they learn why they Fear the Night.

[Don Incognito]

You have some good points...

...but not everyone wants reality in a video game..

..or am I wrong?

And who's to deside what reality is? Is this reality?
Who knows? Oops, kinda lost it there...

------------------
With Love and Admiration, (laced with Raw Passion).


[This message has been edited by Don Incognito (edited 09-28-2000).]

[Finite]

I know what you mean about co-op... I have very found memories of modem-to-modem doom co-op games. Now it's all deathmatch or teamplay. One interesting mod for Half-life is Sven Co-op, which allows co-op play over the net in Half-life... but hardly anyone plays it. It's a pity. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Zack]

Uhh, Sub Demon was like, "House of the Damned (e2m7or8)"

:P House of the Damned? E2m7 is Spawning Vats, E2m8 is the Tower of Babel. I think House of the Damned, if anything, was in e3.

DSM666, I'm sure what you mean by "Doom is too easy with strafe" is that Doom is too easy to BEAT with strafe. It still poses a huge challenge, in Nightmare and even in Ultra Violence. You can practice and practice and your skill will improve. Without practice, the game is still hard. Strafin' don't effect nothin'!


[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 09-29-2000).]

[Finite]

Hey DSM, you reckon Doom is easy do you? Ok, try playing the entire of Ultimate Doom, Doom 2 and Final Doom all on Ultra-Violence, then come back to me and tell me it was easy. http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Death Squad Member 666]

Ah...I know what you mean. To play both DOOM games back to back on Ultra-Violence would be somewhat difficult !
Mainly due to boredom.
I get sick of playing after more than a few levels.
I developed this nasty habit a while back of quick saving every 30 seconds or so. As soon as I take a hit, and too much health, I quickload. This has developed into a bizzare "perfectionist" disorder...
But when I want to blaze through a level to the exit in record time, then it gets interesting ! Then I don't quicksave except for the ends of each level.

I also play some levels, like map13 in Doom II, from scratch each time, respawning with nothing more than the handgun.
I find this method of play to be the most efective way of demonstrating ones true skill...

And as for strafing...it really is the key to avoidance of enemy projectiles.
When you know every single level inside-out, and every bad guy is in the same place, and is defeated in the same manner...I mean, hey, what's left ?

Seriously though, I've spent up to six hours a day for months on end playing Doom II this last year, since getting a new PC.
Well, not every day...but alot anyway !

I like to think I'm a good player, at least against the dumbass monsters anyway...
As for DeathMatches, I don't expect I would last more than a few seconds with the likes of one of you Elite players eh ?
That's because I fall apart when I have to rush through a level ! I like to proceed slowly, sniping the monsters from around corners etc.This type of play conditioning would work against me during a furious DM session...
One of my recent goals was to get through DOOM II without dieing once, but I failed.
Just ran low on health in map16, took too many hits, and died. I gave up on that idea sinec then !
And as for Nighmare...the respawn of monsters you've already killed was just too hard. Suddenly you have all these bad-asses ganging up on you on your 6, you are out of ammo, try using the chainsaw, die instantly...Aaarrrgh !


I have that csDoom, but have not felt I was ready to try it !
Hmmm...I just don't know how to play properly in a DM session. Part of the reason I joined this newdoom was to find people to play against !
So who wants to annihilate a "thinks he's so good" Doom player ?! I don't care about being fragged into oblivion, I just don't want the immature tuanting and BS when I **** up in the game !!

------------------
Now they learn why they are afraid of the Dark. Now they learn why they Fear the Night.

[This message has been edited by Death Squad Member 666 (edited 09-29-2000).]

[The Worshipper of DOOM]

I think your idea on the phobias is great Zack- Im just hoping that the stuff people post here is noticed and used in the making of the New Doom. Like other people I think methods used in other games like Thief, Half-Life and stuff shouldnt be ignored- they could add a lot to it. The thing that scared me the most about the first doom (im 14 now so I was pretty young when I played it) was the Satanical Crosses and evil stars in the floor- the litte blood streams that came out of the mouths of those crazed gargoyles on the walls- the flashing lights and the strange breathing noises and eye gouging noise that went throughout the level when someone was still alive in the area. I think Suprises are good, like if you were walking through a corridoor on a quiet level with a small gun and then suddenly the wall opened to your left and then "tada" a cyberdemon inside the opening decided he didnt like you very much- woah yeah that makes you jump till your head hits the ceiling above your pc, but the only thing about it thats really that scary about it is the jump it gives you and then possibilty of it happening again. I think things that you are warned about beforehand can sometimes be just as scary as if it was a suprise- the anticipation of it- I remember in some levels of Doom, im not sure wether this is just me but in the levels with hard things in like Barons and nasty Cyberdemons and other horrible things they always seemed to warn you that they were in the area with big red stars of david and weird skulls with white eyes...aa...memorys of a disturbed childhood come back to me... Well anyway I wont bore you as you lot have played DOOM aswell. Phobias, thats what I wanted to mention- here is a couple of things that really would make me crawl into a corner and suck my thumb:
1.Big things in the Sea...I like the idea of water in levels but I think the main problem is there just isnt enough of it- I mean picture this as a part in the new doom- There is an Island with a nasty unholy castle out on it, and you (the doom_guy) has to get to it- the sea is made of blood and is warm as you wade into it- I can imagine playing the game swimming through the blood and then suddenly stopping half way to the island- looking at something far below me in the deep sea- I stare at it for a minute and it doesnt move so I carry on swimming and think nothing of it..then I hear a strange noise echo through the water and I look back and the thing is gone- and then I start swimming as fast as possible to shore and I look underwater to see a huge giant squid with Red glowing eyes that shine through the blood at my little legs kicking to get to shore- the squid (to fit into the Doom world) has big upside down crosses on its head and long tenticles with hooks on with lumps of flesh attached to them, some trailing behind on little tendon strings. I think its about time a really big underwater creature appeared- like bigger then the Unreal Titan (that scared me)
2. I think use of radio transmissions could add to the atmosphere- like you come accross a deserted outpost and you find the main computers and you play the captains log (like event horizon) and you hear him saying something like "Captain S.Himon reporting in, today weve stayed on full alert due to missing personell and reports of Zombies and other strange stuff- sounds stupid but weve already lost two men and im not taken any chances--------" "Sir Sir theyve busted the door"Ccczhzhzhzz "BLAM BLAM BLAM run!! BLAM BLAM REeeeeeeee!! Aaah! help get it off get it Chzhzzzzz AAARAAAAAAAGGH (choking noise)" stuff like that to add to the storyline because besides finding the odd dead marine in DOOM, there wasnt really any real evidence of any marines beside you.
Sorry for the long post guys Its just I completely worshipped the Original Doom and I dont want the New one to turn out a flop- I want it to not just shake the foundations of gaming, I want it to take the throne once more and lay its feet firmly on the backs of other games. Long Live ID.

[Finite]

Good post http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

I like the idea of having logs, etc that you mentioned. This was used HEAPS in System Shock 2 and really added so much to the plot development and suspense. I also like your vivid description of the underwater creature, that would be scary indeed hehe. But I from memory none of the DooM monsters ever had symbols engraved onto them or anything... the only demonic "symbols" as such were the goat horns on the cyberdemons etc, so I don't think it would be appropriate. And I also hope the ID guys see this.. however I doubt they will. Even if we email all these ideas to Carmark himself, he'll probably be getting thousands of ideas and suggestions and won't even read it/take note. But we can always hope http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Life is Finite. Doom Hard.
http://www.newdoom.com/snd/sig.gif

[The Worshipper of DOOM]

sorry ppl my dumb computer made me think my post didnt work so i tried it again to find two posts. DOH.

[Ultimate Doom]

http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm3.gif

!!!!!!!
havent you guys ever played doom on nightmare!? they better have that in doom3.

=x

[REoL]

I'm not sure about Quake II, but I know everything from DooM to Quake III: Arena had Nightmare (although Q3:A called it something else).

I don't see why DooM III wouldn't have it either, probably hidden, ala Quake, perhaps? http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif


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King REoL
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/sig.jpg

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

http://members.aol.com/georgef551/longhair.jpg

[Ultimate Doom]

http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm3.gif

has anyone ever even beat doom or doom2 on nightmare?

[Doom_Dude]

http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm3.gif I dunno, but I know it would never be me! I have to kill everything that moves, so I wouldn't make it out of the first map....lol. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smilies/cwm3.gif

------------------
http://www.newdoom.com/themegawad/sig/doomdude.gif
Check Out The Vilecore Megawad! (http://www.newdoom.com/themegawad/)
The only Good ArchVile is a DEAD Archvile.

[REoL]

I got to E1M3 once in Nightmare.

Note that I said ONCE. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif Usually, I'm in the same boat as Doom_dude.


------------------
King REoL
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/sig.jpg

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

http://members.aol.com/georgef551/longhair.jpg

[Finite]

I got to MAP03 in Doom2 on nightmare. You just have to run and PRAY. Pick up everything on the way and hope a shotgun guy doenst respawn behind you and remove that last 10 HP http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

I tried playing MAP07 on Nightmare. As if the mancubi weren't hard enough to dodge/kill.. you have to do it QUICKLY to trigger the surrounding doors to open! If one respawns... they don't open. And then you have to kill all the arachnotrons before any respawn! ARGH. Never completed it http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif I did manage to kill all the macubi though, but after that I just jumped onto the platform (Legacy, of course http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif) and got the hell outa there.

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Life is Finite. Doom Hard.
http://www.newdoom.com/snd/sig.gif

[REoL]

Sounds like the ultimate challenge.

I won't even bother to challenge that.


------------------
King REoL
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/sig.jpg

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

http://members.aol.com/georgef551/longhair.jpg

[Ultimate Doom]

yea.. so... what happens if you beat it on nightmare... ¿

[Finite]

Probably the same thing that happens when you beat it on UV or whatever. It's just a challenge.. I don't think there is any special reward at the end.

------------------
Life is Finite. Doom Hard.
http://www.newdoom.com/snd/sig.gif

[Ultimate Doom]

the world may never know... beating nightmare should do somethin cause its so dam near imposible.

[REoL]

I think that's the whole point of Nightmare mode.

I don't think anything different happens if you could beat it Nightmare Mode. I saw no special graphics or congrats speeches, so it's more for personal gain than anything.


------------------
King REoL
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/sig.jpg

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

http://members.aol.com/georgef551/longhair.jpg

[Ultimate Doom]

youll never know till ya beat it on nightmare..

[REoL]

I looked at all the graphics and pulled the .EXE apart with DeHackEd, and there's no special Nightmare congrats stuff whatsoever. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/frown.gif It would've been nice to have, though.


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King REoL
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/sig.jpg

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

http://members.aol.com/georgef551/longhair.jpg

[Da Man]

Here's a scary idea. How about you go to HEAVEN instead of hell for once. God wants to
put an end to the U.A.C. for all the killing (of Imps) it has done. Sounds gay but think about.
Id needs to think about something new instead of the you start on a moon or something, go to hell, kill some badasses, and miracously find a warp to take you back.

------------------
Hey hey, now I'm back and here to stay, listen what I have to say.

[REoL]

To be a little more PC, maybe Hell invades Heaven, and you have to use your usual combat gear to clean house.

How spititual is that.... http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
King REoL

The John Smith Army
The Long Hair Army

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

[Da Man]

Yeah, and your only weapons are holy water and a cross.

------------------
Da Man is going to tell you a little story about pie.
Its tough to be the man.
Going over to John Carmack's old fun house, taking a chance, hoping someone's home.

[REoL]

You can't forget the power of prayer, too. Your 3'rd weapon. http://forums.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
King REoL

The John Smith Army
The Long Hair Army

REoL TOUGH: Has it been 7 YEARS already?! Jesus Christ....
http://members.aol.com/georgef551/REoL_TOUGH.html

[Pantsman2k]

maybe they oughta have something like the batcomp from Q2

[Leo32]

Something odd if you feel like reading it:

...Back in the days of consoles like the NES and computers that used real "floppy" disks, a few games sparked some confusion and made me a bit jumpy, and the memories of those games sometimes do even today. (I'm 17) The odd thing about all those old primitive games was that what they used to try to scare me typically didn't scare me at all; rather it would be some technical flaw or other unintendid happening that would make me somewhat jittery. Laugh if you want to, but I'm serious. I think it was the bad graphics and primitive sound combinations in certain games that for some reason sparked uneasy feelings that still bother me today. And they are *stupid* thoughts indeed, yet for some reason they still plauge me, and I just don't know why.

Some of this shit includes: The dungeons/sub map in Zelda I(NES), the entire Black Bass game(NES, that game was FREAKY), Faxanadu(NES), 10-Yard Fight(NES), 1942(NES), Ghosts n' Goblins(NES), The intentional "Hideo" interruption while playing Metal Gear Solid(PSX), and finally an oddity with FFTactics(PSX) that occasionally gives me wierd dreams of fighting black-clothed guys in locations not really in the game. ...Just a bunch of stuff, mainly with console games, that tended to creep up on me. Exactly why I have no idea. I probably play video games too much. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

...Anyways I believe that there are two kinds of "fear"- Fear that makes you come back for more (Like Doom, because the fear is enjoyable, thrilling, whatever you want to call it), and finally a 'real' sort of fear(no matter how silly or blown out of porportion) that makes you want to either avoid certain aspects of a game altogether, or simply never want to play, see, hear, or smell the game again, period.

That's my 2 cents.

[Hunt1024]

I havent read all these posts so I dont know if someone has already suggested this but one thing I find disturbing is when u have a realistic setting, but its all wrong and defiled looking. Like in Silent Hill where its like any street but its all real f@#ked up like someone or something has control over the place. Also I think that mazes and puzzle style maps can be used to invoke a deep fear into players. Getting that feeling of "havent I been here before" and things like coming back to the same place but its all different.
The latter of these could make level design very complicated, but done well, this kind of thing could keep a player on they're toes constantly. It also prevents players from becoming familiar with the map the first time they play it and thinking they can just go back where they know everyone is dead without needing re-appearing enemies.

I think that while all the big monsters etc are great for a scary action game, if u want to really freak people out u need a few wierd characters. For example, a young boy or something as a boss. At first u might think "Oh wow! A human!" But then as u get closer and see the way this freaky kid is looking at u, u crap urself as he starts glowing and drains your health with some wierd evil power. Or he can use telekenesis to launch large objects at u etc.

I think that adding the human elemant to the game would be cool. If u get to meet a few people along the way such as dying soldiers etc but then u get possesed people and u dont know wethere to kill them or not. Thats how u screw with peoples conscience. Then again, u get those people who would just kill everything and thats fine.

Anyways, if anyone thinks anything of my ideas please let me know. I have heaps more.....

[Hunt1024]

I think that inspiration can be drawn from Aliens to create a freaky little imp style character that likes to stay in the dark. He can scale walls and likes to hide and attack you from behind. You can hear him somewhere in the room so you turn on the head light on your helmet and start looking in the shadows. He sees your light coming towards him and moves to avoid it. You rarely get a good look at one while it is alive but it has real freaky reflective eyes that u can see from a distance. He is a fast little bugger and hard to hit. More of an annoying ammo user upperer than anything else, but very lethal in packs. These guys could dwell in dark parts of the map and u never really know if they are around, only by the noise they make. A freaky whisper style voice and the scratching sounds he makes when he scampers around the walls. It would be coll if they could be programmed to act scared if caught in the light. Like if they back up against the wall and growl fiercely at you and would rather run to the shadows than fight in the light. Make it look like some kind of skinny vampire bat faced imp thing with sharp claws (for climbing and killing).
Just imagine: u r getting frustrated with the little buggers and u have wasted enough ammo already, but then u get on of them caught in the light in a corner. Hes gonna have to go through you to get away. You can see it is petrified. Now u get ur sweet vengence as u start up the chainsaw and walk slowly towards him with that Doom grin showing in the bottom of the screen >:)

[Ultimate Doom]

heres how i see it.. when i first played doom, it was on a small 15.7" viewable with sucky speakers. The only thing i feared was eye strain. Now i got this kick ass speaker surround setup with a subwoofer and my comps down in my basement wear its nice and dark... so hell yea when its night time and i play, it can get real freaky. Its not just how they make the game, but its your atmosphere that can freak you out.

[Hunt1024]

well obviously atmosphere is an issue, but how can a game developer do anything about that? I think the trick is, keeping players on the edge. I admit, I jump sometimes when playing AVP as a marine (only as the marine though). I dont want DOOM3 to keep me THAT close to the edge all the time. But there should be contrast between different sections. One minute you are battling a group of enemies, its not scary, just intense battle. They are all dead, but are they really? You walk further into the darkness. Running should make more noise, and alert 'dumb' enemies (ones without supernatural senses) to ur presence. I think that the running noise should also take over from how well YOU hear things. In real life, you cant hear faint noises when running, you also should make breathing noises that can mask over subtle sounds that would otherwise alert you of danger eg. the scratching sounds of those characters i was talking about. If you run, you might not hear it and suddenly be swarmed from all around.

Keen eyes and keen ears can more easily be frightened also. Lots of wierd noises throughout the game, some mean something, some dont. "Was that the wind???".

Also, enemies need to be deadly. It should be of great advantage if you spot them first. Or even if you get to spot them at all before the are upon you with infected claws.

I think that people with REALLY crappy speakers whould not be taken into the equation. If they cant hear the sounds, get some headphones!

I would like to see enemy ambushes. Some enemies should have intelligence so that when they hear you coming, they run and hide behind a wall, or on a ledge above where you will come through and pounce. This could be dynamic, solves the problem of knowing where an enemy entity box has been placed on the map and just aiming for it as soon as you turn the corner.

[Ultimate Doom]

the only time doom ever scared me was when i would play it alone in the dark with my speakers/subwoofer on blast. It can really mess with your head, especially if your on somethin... heheh but anyway, i think the NewDoom should have surround sound setup. that way youll jump when you actually think you heard a baron bust through your bedroom door. If you dont wanna get scared, you wont... if you do... try surround sound.

[Mixplit]

Do any of you remember Aliens Doom. The 1st level was so creepy. It was filled with all these creepy sound effects from the movie. you would keep expecting the aliens to pop out any moment. Then you get to the end of the level and realize there were no aliens on the level, just creepy images and sounds to freak you out. It sure worked.

[Captin'WeeWee]

Have any of you played doom 64 for nintendo 64? pretty good game I like what they did with some of the monsters, kinda glitchy. It was alot darker then DooM 2 and the characters werent so cartoonish, they were more seriouslooking, more scary. but the scary part about the game was the music.. it was freaky as shit.. it wasnt even music really just strange noises... little kids voices.. the sound of doors closing was much more dramatic, imps warping in, they even put monster sounds in the music to keep you on edge.. you should play it, all the way through on ultra violince with the sound up in the dark, if you dont get even a little bit freaked out your full of it.
The problem with new games is they take up way to much memory, you can pack rooms full of demons anymore, like in DooM, its 3 or 4 guys in a room , go down a hallway, 2 or 3 more guys.. They scariest thing that could happen is you are traveling around and havent seen a demon in a while, but you know there around somewhere. then you open a door.. and there is a small army standing in formation, 20 former humans 20 imps 15 demons 5 in change of everything else and one cyberdeomon and one spidermind. Imagine walking into a room like that, you would turn whiter then frosty your jaw would drop and turn around and run for you life...

------------------
Cheater! Cheater! Demon Eater!!!

[The Undertaker]

It isn't called Ultra Violence on DooM 64, its called I own DooM I think. The so called music of DooM 64 is really fucked up on some levels. And on the last few levels there isn't any at all. But you gotta love that warping sound coming from behind after hitting that switch feeling.

[Leo32]

Sometimes I think the music plays a greater role in a game than the graphics. There is nothing creepier than well-devised ambience, which is why I think the current Doom games lack an overall spookiness- Every level just plays music, and in a LOT of cases old music is just reused in the later levels, which just ruins the potential "feel" for a level.

Ambience can do what "music" cannot. However, making an ambience track out of Midi music would be damn near impossible, because of everyone's quality of Midi on their PC...

I'm not saying Doom's music sucks (Most of it is quite memorable and sounds awesome if you have good midi instrument samples), I'm just saying ambience would work a hell of a lot better (the PSX port of Doom uses some decent ambience).

Also maybe making the music more interactive with the level itself would be better, too. Like having objects or whatever contribute to the ambience, unless you say, destroyed them or something, in which then the sounds would go away. ...I don't know. I just think the sound is important to a game. I mean, you could have mind-blowing graphics, but if there was corny music playing in the background that would just ruin the experience, wouldn't it?

[Aliotroph?]

I got DooM when I was twelve so certain parts were really scary. The two that come to mind are the first demon on e1m4 (twice as strong as anything previous) and the first time I seriously tried to kill the cyberdemon. I went downstairs shaking like I was having a seizure aftwards. My mother was confused.

As for locational damage, it seems to work well in Half-Life. In Blue Shift I know that if I don't manage to hit that grunt in the head with my two remaining shells, I'm going to die a bloody death. It doesn't always work anyway; sometimes you just get killed.

The other great thing about HL was the big monster in the map called Power Up. It's like the cyberdemon's big brother. The whole level is solid concrete, but this thing shakes it by stomping. It's really scary. I didn't even risk finding out what this thing could do before I ran away. The sound played an important part here.

Here's my idea for scaryness though. Create a character in the game that the player will become really attached to. I'm not saying this has to be female. Then create a scenario where this character is captured and if you can't do something really fast, they'll be ripped apart (slowly and painfully) right before your eyes. This would be so disturbing it would give anyone nightmares. It would probably turn more than a few people off of the game for the rest of forever too.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Leo32]

Parts of the DOOM series that I found a bit creepy/nerve racking/stuff like that:

1. E1M2's maze initially gave me the creeps with all those flashing lights and I refused to enter it. (Not anymore of course!)

2. E1M4's little maze did the same as above.

3. E1M9's final teleport into that room made no sense to me, and seemed a little odd.

4. I love how the original DOOM is structured: Human-like in mission 1, slightly demon-twisted in mission 2, and total hell in mission 3.

5. Forget which one, it's like E2M3 or something, where it has that (what I call) Indian-ish music playing. ...Sounded especially creepy on the SuperNES.

6. My first encounter with the Cyberdemon. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/wink.gif

7. The level "Halls of the Damned" really freaked me out. I'd do the long hallway-chamber part first, and attempt the big dark maze-like rooms last. Often I'd get lost in there, and upon finding the way out, I would get this urge to run to the exit and frantically open the keycard'ed doors to exit. It still kind of does.

8. "The Focus" level in Doom II: In the PSX version the ambience oddly goes in near-perfect sync with those clanging shutters, which are a bit creepy to me.
Some other later levels in the PSX version had areas with this clanging noise coming out of nowhere and I can't stand that kind of stuff. (I really makes me jumpy)

9. Regular Doom's "Limbo" (SNES version)level actually gave me the feeling I was underground.

Surprisingly, the SuperNES version of Doom seemed creepier to me than the other versions. The music was a lot better, too, but everything else (especially the gfx) really sucked.

Ok, I'm done. Sorry for the long post. http://forums.newdoom.com/UBB/tongue.gif

[Aliotroph?]

American McGee's Alice is a frightening game. I played the demo and saw how much Disney had perverted that story. The real version scared the crap out of me. It was dark and twisted with scary characters and frightening places. Doesn't sound like a kid's story anymore. If the new DooM can do that to me, I'll be happy.

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"Killed Aliotroph?"
- obituary from Perfect Dark

[Shiv_Timberwolf]

Ok, a quick compilation of scary elements:

Ambience
-Darkness. Lots of flickering shadows, dark corners, and potential for something to be hidind 3ft away from you.
-Music. Deeply ambient music, creepy, pant wetting.
-Ambient Sounds. Screams, marine-talk, sound of monsters, sounds of breathing! Monsters talking ("Your flesh betrays you" -System Shock 2, freaked the fuck out of me!)

Shock Tactics
-Things jumping out of the darkness (ala Alien vs. Predator)
-Baddies behind doors when everything was silent
-Baddies suddenly appearing behind you (like in Half-Life when the life reaches ground level and you realise you're facing the wrong way)
-fast moving baddies

Psychological Fear
-Smart baddies. Like the assassins in HL.
-Absence of a quicksave. Maybe something more along the lines of Project IGI, Tomb Raider etc. where your game is saved (automatically?) at certain points. This adds to the pressure enormously.
-Ammo shortage. Knowing that you've got only enough ammo for a couple more baddies.
-Not knowing. Hearing a monster, not knowing where it is. Not knowing what is just around the next corner. Etc.
-Baddies coming from all directions (above, below, along the ceiling etc.)
-Foreshadowing. If you know something is going to happen or if there's something wierd going on. Eg. a collection of mutilated bodies around a specific area.

I prob missed some, but they are the most imp.
-Shiv

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"Preserve wildlife: Pickle a squirrel"