New Doom & New Monsters

[Doom_Dude]

So we all wanna see all the old monsters in the New Doom . Yeah , thats cool . But what can they put in the game that would help make it more cool ?

What about ghouls ? These guys are undead and feast on the flesh of the dead . I think of them as hells vultures , that come out to feed on some poor dead sap .

What about a Cyberdemoness ? Lighter and more agile that the other fella , but with less of a punch ( only slightly ) . Could be a cool idea for a monster .

Hell tentacle . It is attached to a wall with a group of suckers . It is able to blend in with the wall texture it is against , like a chameleon . When you near it , it whips out and tries to strangle you . To avoid death , it can detach itself and try and slither away . Thats when you start jumpin' on it with your combat boots !

Flyin' demon . I dunno about you dudes but i want somethin' with wings in the New Doom . Some scaly , shrieking , demonic , flyin serpent would be cool . It flys in at you to strafe you with acid or to rake you with razor sharp talons . We already have " floatin monsters " like the Cacodemon , but maybe somethin' with wings would be different . Besides lots of demons are supposed to be winged .

What do you fellers think ? Any other ideas or anything ? Go ahead and post away !



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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

I think, instead of just three different classes of zombies, there should be HUNDREDS of different ones, enough so that you will seldom be able to recognize the same one twice! This adds more realism because it won't look like some woman had given birth to centuplets (I kinda made that word up...but 100 identical twins!!!) and sent them all into the army! Instead it will look like all different marines (with different faces, but similar uniforms) and make more sense. Dontcha think?

Ghouls might not be a very good touch...although Doom took place in Hell, I never saw any ghosts or anything. Save it for GhostBusters Doom :)

As for the Cyberdemoness, I never saw any 'gender' of demons in the original Doom. They're not boys nor girls, but all...its. (In fact, I take back that corny 'Cyberdemon child' idea from that Conflict of Sin thing =P)

Doom has tried flying, screeching monsters before, dude, and nobody LIKED the Lost Soul! I don't think anything screeching with wings (And I think of dragons when I think those words...) would be Doomish.

Although it sounds as if it's ripping off the Half-Life tentacles, your wall-tentacle idea sounds pretty cool.

Doom featured a lot of mechanical spiders (arachnotrons, Spider Mastermind). Perhaps another spider monster would be a good idea. Not as big as the other two, but actually, the size of a normal, large spider, like the Trapdoor or Tarantula. They'd rest on the ceiling, very very still, until you near them, and then one would suddenly spindle down on its thread, right in front of your face! Clutch on your face and begin to suck the blood right from your forehead. You'd have to shake around to throw it off, and then it would either possibly go back up toward the ceiling, or begin to crawl on the ground just like a headcrab, where you can shoot it. That'd scare the crap outta me :)

--Zack

[Finite]

I'd have to agree with zack pretty much here... including those spiders. Scary **** i reckon http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

Other ideas .. hrmmm

How about a really BIG version of the demon? make it brown or something.. and it basically comes up to you and tries to rip your head off... and will do if it gets too close.... it'd have to be pretty fast too... but only have it in very open areas (otherwise you'd die instantly http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif)

And about the ghouls.... DONT DARE make it like the cemetary levels in Turok 2.... THAT WAS HORRIBLE..... i think a better idea would be make the zombiemen fall to the ground when shot in the legs or something.. and then crawl towards you even with half their body gone etc.. i.e. make the zombiemen more ghoul-like http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

its hard to think of new monsters... I'll come back later with more ideas http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Finite

[Zack]

I think the Demon idea is kewl, but it should be the same Demon from the original Doom that tries to bite your head off. That's what it looked like before, and only losing 5% or 6% health was, IMO, not realistic!

Don't make him brown...that would kill the term "pinkie" :)

Basically the demon was fine just the way it was, in appearance and stuff. But he was far too easy. He should have been able to chomp you up in one bite.

Quake 1's Fiend, I think, was id's idea of an improved demon. And I agree with them--he jumps halfway across the room in a swift motion, much like that Zool dog dude in Ghostbusters, and slashes at you, could bite you too. And the SFX for both the Fiend and the Demon were great...perhaps a mixture of each and even more wild-animal/disgusting SFX would help make a great New Doom Demon!

--Zack

[twisted]

One monster I think someone already mentioned was one where it would hide in the shadows. I'd love to see myself going down a dark corridor where I hear this faint breathing. Suddenly a huge creature jumps into the light and attacks me! How does that sound?

-twisted

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Patrick 'twisted' Hardy
News Updates & Forums Moderator
http://www.newdoom.com

[Doom_Dude]

If they put a spider in the New Doom it would have to be a cybernetic / mechanic revamp of the old spider . These other type of spiders you dudes are talking about : trapdoor / tarantula , well those big hairy type have been done to death . Spiders can be found in Hexen 2 , Sytem Shock 2 , Sin ( mission pack ) , Unreal ( mission pack ) , and Daikatana has the biggest lookin' , hairy tarantula style spider ever ! I don't wanna see no spiders like that in Doom ! Besides your spider idea sounds like a face hugger from Aliens .

How come you dudes say that you can have zombies in Doom and no ghouls ? When i say ghoul i ain't talkin' about ghosts ! Ghouls in my book are solid like zombies . Zombies are undead that seem to want to destroy everything that is living . Ghouls roam in packs and probably feed on the creatures that zombies killed .

I hate lost souls !!!!! Where in Doom did you see anything with flapping wings ? Pain Elementals , Cacodemons and Lost souls FLOATED ! A winged , flying creature ain't a lost soul . So eliminate the shrieking part and add a lot of scales , teeth and talons all set together on a pair of bat like wings . And no , it don't have to look like a dragon , either .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

But what you just described IS a dragon!

And ghouls, by definition, are evil spirits that feed on the dead. They originated from Muslim mythology. But the point is they are -spirits- just like ghosts, and are by no means solid.

But I guess my spider idea was taken already, then :( Heh, oh well. I had a feeling it wasn't too original; it sounded like HL's headcrab a bit, anyway.

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

I will draw this demon and when this fan art thing is set up you will see that it ain't a dragon ! It's a demon i tell ya !

Well fragg the ghoul thing . I really didn't think it was written in stone that ghouls = ghosts . Oh well i give up . All my ideas are crap .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Finite]

Hrmmm when I was thinking ghouls I thought zombies... because there were zombies in Turok 2 but I didn't like the way they would constantly reappear out of the ground... sorta creeped me out too much http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

We need something that is either on the walls or can climb onto the walls. Because at the moment... doom walls are pretty boring. I'd like to spice em up a bit with some creatures that can climb onto em. I also reckon that for atmosphere... the walls should be LIVING, dripping with blood and stuff... http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

That's all for now

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Finite

[Zack]

How about REALLY dynamic walls...like, did you ever see the movie Labrynth, with David Bowie?

Well this girl Sarah was going through the huge labrynth, looking for a way to the castle in the center, and constantly would a wall appear right where she was standing seconds ago! A very freaky twist :)

Something like that in Doom could be used to at least scare the player or spicen up the game a little bit. You walk along a twisting tunnel in a maze, come to a dead end, and turn around for the trek back. But when you get back to where you were, there's nothing but a wall! When you return to the original dead end, the wall is gone and you can continue. (Actually, this could probably have been done in the original Doom, too, but I never saw it...)

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Actually Zack , that wall trick can be done in the original Doom . You can have an entire maze change just by walkin' over an invisible trigger ( the wall suddenly appearin' out of thin air , can't be done --- yet ). Remember how in some classic Doom levels you would find a door opened up where no door was before . Same thing , just used a little different . It's still a cool idea and i hope they do use it in the New Doom .

What if my ghoul monster idea wasn't a ghoul but called somethin else like Dreademons or somethin' . They look somethin like zombies , but are shorter and roam the plains of hell in packs .

Actually i like my Hell Tentacle idea the best . I don't think it would be a Half~Life ripp off . It would be much smaller and would be wound up in a bunch against a rock wall . At first glance it looks like a part of the wall . It tries to grab you and crush you like a boa constrictor . Wrapping you up in its coils . At this point it can release the wall and start munching you with it sucker mouth , thats full of needle sharp teeth .

Monsters that crawl on walls is a good idea . My centipede monster that no one liked could be made to do that . I like the idea that the player , in order to survive , must be observant of his entire surroundings , including walls and ceilings . Yeah .
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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-08-2000).]

[Zack]

I like the wall tentacles, actually. It's a good idea. Although similar to the red tongue thingies on the Half-Life ceilings (they ate you too), it's an original idea still.

Also, a great effect and nice detail is lotsa bugs. Harmless, maybe gross-looking bugs crawling on the floor, crawling on your boots, crawling up the walls. Valve has a slight idea what I'm talking about with those roaches crawling everywhere, and id had the idea with the flies on the corpses in Quake II. Ahh, those flies were so cool!! :)

--Zack

[Zack]

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[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 07-09-2000).]

[Finite]

Yeah... the entire bloody game has to be ALIVE... ceilings, floors, walls, rocks, pillars... all can be living with some sorta creature or another...

I like the maze idea... maybe have it as a demons trick on you.. as a trap or something. For instance.. say the aim of a search mission is to get a key. At a certain point the demons would create an image of the key or something somwhere. Then, upon approaching it gleafully, the image dissapears, the floor colapses and you fall into a pit full of zombies, or walls that eat you or whatever. Now that would scare the **** outa people http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Doom_Dude]

Ummmmmmmm . Well , a lot of mazes have been done before in games , especially in some of the older games . The maze idea is okay as long as the maze isn't too boxy . They should use some different architecture , because a lot of mazes look like " hi , your in da old egyptian , blocky maze again thing ) and that is boring .

I like the idea of having a maze that has a few traps in it . I thought that the buzz~saw traps in the " Blood Sacrifice " map of the Quake mission pack : Dissolution Of Eternity were cool . Yeah , some different traps would be cool .

The key idea is cool . I seem to remember a level somewhere in Quake that had an idea like that . It was set up , so that when the player approached the key , it suddenly shot down through the floor on a pedestal . Then you had to find your way into the lower chamber . That was cool .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[ncr]

The Quake map Doom_Dude is talking about is E4M2, a bloody nice map both in SP and MP.

That disappearing key thingy sounds bloody good in my opinion, although I think it would be cooler if it just disappeared, rather than sunk into the floor, like in Quake. It would slowly fade away, dissolving into the air when approached. Like, you see the key far ahead of you, in the end of a corridor you just entered. You become incredibly happy, since you've found that bloody key you have been looking for for so long. You immediately start running towards it. As you are about 20-30 metres away from it, you suddenly see how it's slowly fading away, dissolving into the air.

It's simply teleported to another location, which you'll now have to find.

And that makes me think of something else, which could also be quite neat.

How about making all teleporting effects look like this? Monsters, players or whatever is teleported, dissolves into particles and disappears. This, along with the classic green lighting effects would be quite nice, I suppose.

[This message has been edited by ncr (edited 11-02-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah , a fine map it is . Jumpin' across those buzz~saws in the floor was cool and sorta tense . Especially , hehe , when ya jumped over or onto the ones comin' up the corridor .

The disappearing key idea is cool . Yeah , i like it , but will they use it ?

Ummmm , ncr , dude i hope that wouldn't make the teleporters look too star trekish ! What if the dude who gets on the teleporter appears to be dissolving and the last thing you see , before the green flash , is a his skeleton , holding a plasma rifle . Yeah , that sounds cool .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

I'd love to see all the items in the original Doom, just with more realism, and more logical explanation but without taking anything away.

So when it comes to teleporting, the translucent green smog should still remain (fully animated this time), and whatever is being transported dissapear in any kewl looking, logical way (which is, dealing with the transferral of each atom at a time). Here are some ideas for teleporting effects.

One, the model could be transformed into particles, retaining the colors that they were, that explode into all dirctions and dissolve. This would be like the Quake2 teleports, except not all a solid ugly pink color.

Two, the model could actually transform into the glowing green teleport ball itself, and do just the opposite on the other side. (Another nice effect adding to this is if the ball would shoot at the speed of a bullet through walls in the direction it is heading. It could also leave a Slimer-style goo splotch on the walls! Seeing someone teleport like that would be very kewl. And the first-person view would definately be worth the one-or-two-second delay it takes to teleport!!!! Also, since this feature would allow the player to go thru walls without cheating, it should look realistic from wherever the teleport path is: simply dark, rocks, stones or dust, directly in your face, shooting by, is all you see.

Another way is, among the green glow, atoms from the player model begin to drift, beginning from top to bottom (think of the crooked view on the top of those old, small TVs) and the atoms, retaining a slight image of the player or object teleporting, would shoot to the destination.

What do you guys think?

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Hey Zack ! Your green ball-o-tranporter stuff sounds cool . Having it shoot through walls and stuff is cool . Yeah i like it .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

Just remember that it'd only shoot through walls if they are in the way between source and destination :)

[ncr]

I meant E3M2. I wrote E4M2, but I meant E3M2. I shall now get some sleep.

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah Zack . Also if your standing there in a room and a monster teleports , you see the teleporting sphere flying past your nose . Even cooler would be to have the sphere actually pass through your body as it flys towards the other teleporter .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

Yeah. A drawback though would be the tricks often used in Doom, where a cyberdemon, for example, would appear, and then suddenly teleport and you have no idea where. Or when a billion monsters spill out through a teleport. In those cases, perhaps it could be defined in the map to hide the glowing green ball...or better yet, use a different type of teleporter mentioned, like exploding into a million fragments in all directions.

--Zack

[Finite]

hehe sounds cool... but enough teleporting stuff... back to monsters please http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyone thought of any more monster ideas?

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Finite

[Zack]

I absolutely loved that purple squashy thing in Quake 1. I forget what it's called right now because I haven't played Quake in quite a while. But it's in episode 4 only, I think, and is small and bounces and squishes all around the room really fast. When you finally kill it, it explodes into particles and can hurt if you are close by (In a room with many of them, they'd kill each other in a chain reaction like toxic barrels in Doom)! This dude was completely original and he was really kewl, I'd love to see something like it in new Doom! Whatchu guys think?

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Ummmmmmmmmmm , Zack , do you mean by purple squashy things........ like Spawn ? You got the green flavor and the purple flavor . Yeah i think they called those floppy terrors Hell Spawn . One of the mission packs had the green ones i think .

The other monster type i liked in Quake ( mission pack 1 ) were the little Gremlins . Dirty little friggers jump outta the ceiling in a pack . It was funny the time one of them stole my laser rifle and blasted anouther Gremlin . The whole place erupted in mayhem as the little buggers were fighting and runnin around . Little chitterin' creepy b****rds ! Gimme back my laser rifle ! Hey you ! Don't you dare fire that rocket launcher ! Stop stealing my stuff ! Eat lead !

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-14-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

As far as monsters go no one has really touched too much on , one certain area . But i wouldn't wanna give Zack the creeps .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

Man, the only thing that gives me the creeps is the Twilight Zone movie. That was really kewl! "Ya wanna see something REALLY scary?" heheh....waita minute that wasn't scary at all. Hrm, just really funny. heheh...

So anyway, nothing gives me the creeps except for spiders bigger than a penny (and smaller than an arachnotron), heights, and Pokemon. Nothing but.

--Zackahahahahah

[Doom_Dude]

The spiders in Hexen 2 got me creeped . And Thief .........Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr....man you ain't seen nothin' till ya see those things . SHUTUP ! Sorry , don't get me going on about spiders .

I think that water based monsters are one of the things that game designers have only barely touched on . I was thinking that a shark / squid creature would be cool . Actually i drew this thing the other day . The front parts are shark~like , but verge on the snakish . The rear parts are long tentacles that end in sharp horn~like jobbies . It looks like a fast swimmer and is sorta creepy . Anyone else got any water based monster ideas ?

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-16-2000).]

[Zack]

Hehe , you should play Hexen 2 . No spiders in that one , nope . Actually those Hexen 2 spiders got me creeped .

Zuh? That makes no sense, you just contradicted yourself!

It must've been you, Doom_Dude, who said Half-Life sucks, and you didn't even bother to play it. Why, how can you say nobody's touched upon the idea of water based monsters! id's had that idea going since Quake 1, and Valve used the Icthyosaur in Half-Life. That thing was scary as hell. Fast deadly and ugly.

I never said I was afraid of swimming! I'm not three. I'm fifteen! *holds up fifteen fingers* Anyway, I'm just sort of scareda sharks when you can't see 'em. I have no fear of swimming in a pool or at the beach. If there's been a history of sharks in the area, THEN I might think twice before going in.

[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 07-16-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

Whoah Zack ! Now i think you need to take a pill ! I never said Half~Life sucked . I might of said that i thought parts of it sucked , like the end boss .

Yeah , the icyhosaurus thing was creepy , especially the part at the dam . I thought Half~Life was excellent , but i found the parts near the end dissapointing . If i thought H.L. sucked , i wouldn't be editing maps for it ! As a matter of fact Half~Life is one of the best games ever created . You are wrong because i played it twice . It was that crazy Crete guy who said it sucked and never played it or somethin' .

I was joking about the spider thing . Though now that i look at it , i see that it makes no sense .

What i meant by game designers barely touching on water based monsters is : I can count the total of them on one and a half hands , or can i ? . Quake 2 Shark , Hexen 2 Hydra , Half~Life icy....big ugly fish , Quake Rotfish , Ummmmmmmmmmm , Requiem : Avenging Angel Pitkis (demon fish ) , errrrrrrrrrrr , well thats all i can come up with . This is what i meant . I didn't say they never , ever made a water monster before .

Sorry . I thought you said water and it was sharks . My mistake . I wasn't trying to be offensive .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

Heh, it's okay, no offense taken.

Oh yeah! Crete, I remember that guy. Sorry I thought it was you---what was i thinking!!! That it was you. yeah but....stupid thought...ahh forget it!

Oh, and it's icthyosaur. "ichthys" is Greek for a fish. And "saorus" is Greek for a lizard. So you could call it the Fishlizard, if ichthyosaur is too hard!! :)

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

Yeah . No problem . I was just trying to come up with some different water type of monster . Any ideas ? Lets talk fish !

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Finite]

Hrmm strange that the icthyosaur in HL looks NOTHING like the skeletons of icthyosaurs that scientists have found... (you know ... that sea reptile that lived bout same time as dinosaurs...)

I agree water animals are scary... in fact the icthy and barracuda sharks are the ones that come to mind... and i definitely think a demonic octopus-like creature would be scary as!! Especially if it looked as evil as a cyberdemon and moved like a octopus... in bursts of speed... and if it is HUGE ... http://www.newdoom.com/ubb/smile.gif hehhe man i'd wanna be out of that water pretty damn quickly!!!

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Finite

[Doom_Dude]

Finite , you are right there . Anything like that lurking in the dark , watery , depths and coming out of a cave or somethin' , would be damn scary ! A giant moray eel also would be creepy , especially with all those teeth and its speed .

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[roark314]

Some ideas on monsters...I think the spider thing might be good, but the spiders should be somewhat small. It would be awesome if you walked into a room, looked accross into a hall on the other side, and suddenly a huge swarm of the things come skittering in, crawling all over the floor, walls, & ceilings. Anyone see the new lost in space movie? Those were some creepy spiders.

The ghoul idea made me think of something. It would be cool to have ambient creatures: Stuff that lives in hell but isn't necessarily out to kill you, such as the idea of rotting corses walking around in groups and eating other rotting corpses...or something like that.

Has anyone seen Little Nemo? It's some little kid movie, kid of anime style..but it has an awesome looking monster in it. If you've seen it, remember the Nightmare? It's basically a living mass of black liquid. But what was scary about it was the way it moved...which I can't really describe.

When the idea of a bigger demon came up, for some reason I though it should be on four legs. Has anyone seen Relic? Something like that creature would be cool.

[Doom_Dude]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............i have seen more spiders in fps games than anyone here ! I swear to you all that spiders are in all kinds of games . Go get the Hexen 2 demo or somethin and see for yourself !

A black pool of what ? Is that thing like the evil pool of tar stuff that swallowed whatshername in Star Trek ? Ummmmmmm....it would be cool if it could move like that .

Never saw any relic movie . Besides four legs , what did it look like ?

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 07-20-2000).]

[Zack]

I dub this post, the "James Earl Jones Post." Need a number? Dial 411!

I never saw Little Nemo, but a Hellish theme like the Nightmare scene in All Dogs Go To Heaven (1) would be pretty neat. That part still scares me =)

I vaguely remember that tar pit in Star Trek! I am not a ST fanatic or anything, but I grew up with the show because my Dad would watch every single show and rerun of The Next Generation. Whenever I hear the theme song to TNG, I am reminded of my youth and the good times I spent years ago in life :)
Anyway, that tar pit thingie was kinda kewl, I remembew bein' reawwy mistyfied when I sawed it an' I musta been a toddler!

Whoops, that's my bad "babytalk" habit. Got it from too many hours on yiffnet :)

--Zack, tailsfox16@hotmail.com

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"You wanna see something REALLY scary?"

[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 07-20-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

James Earl Jones What? Huh?

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[WickedOne]

You guys were talking about dissapearing keys? They do that to death in DooM 64.

Some of the stuff like the purple ooze thing is pulling doom too star wars or trek or whatever. Doom has always had a gothic/hellish atmosphere and making a tentacle like in halflife would mess sh*t up
can you imagine a flock of lost souls with a tentacle thingy behind them while playing a level? Its would be like playing two different games.

I like the idea about the winged demon. It should be like the gargoyle from heretic.

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heh heh heh.......

[-tdk-jb]

A cool new enemy would also be a cyber-human. Take one of the zombies, mount a mini-gun on to their arm, and let 'em loose! They'd be kind of slow but could take lots damage and would shoot with awesome accuracy.

Another good idea would be to have AI partners. Lets say a couple more space marines lived then what we thought, and you could use them in a way similar to the Barney's in Half-Life. They wouldnt get stuck on corners though.

[Doom_Dude]

I agree totally that a winged demon should be in the next Doom game. So far the only flying demons were actually floaters, like the Cacodemon.

The tentacle idea is not supposed to look like the Half-Life tentacle. Its supposed to be much smaller and attaches itself to the side of a rock or stone wall where it blends in and coils up against the stone. It lashes out and actually tries to wrap you up in its grey colored length. It can detach itself from the rock wall and slither off something like a snake but less gracefull. I know no one else like the idea but i do.

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The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Empyrial Revenant]

actually i like that idea. I have had a very similer one at one time. Mine had holes in the wall where they would hide and the only time you could shoot them is when they attack.

[Doom_Dude]

Hey, cool! I like your idea too, Empyrial Revenant. That monster in a hole (like a cave moray eel) would be a challenge to kill since the only time it comes out is when you get too close!

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$h1t I forgot to click on the add my signature freaking box. Stupid freaking dialog box! Why doesn't it just default to adding it. Then if ya want to disable the signature, then you click da phucking box.....crap. Better yet....no box, just signature!

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 10-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 10-21-2000).]

[WickedOne]

Cyber Human? Ever played Quake 2?

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Help.....demons......crunch

[Doom_Dude]

Ya Cyber-humans have been done...alot. Quake II and Sin come to mind..

http://www.occdsb.on.ca/~lbh/dave/hexen2.jpg And here's anouther thing that's been done to death lately..SPIDERS!

*Note: The Hexen II spiders had Quake emblems on thier abdomens....did ya know that?

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The Megawad: Vilecore Site (http://www.newdoom.com/themegawad/) The only Good ArchVile is a DEAD Archvile... Vilecore has Viles that need slaying! (Megawad Coming Soon)

[Fyewit]

What about human heads thathad spider legs and they could crawl along the walls and stuff and they would say really freaky stuff to you........