Weapons

[Spinal_Job]

In all of iD software's games they use the same weapons over and over and over, it would be nice to have some orignal, creative weapons in Doom III. Post suggestions here!

[Zack]

Okay first of all let's stop calling it Doom III already! There already WAS a Final Doom and so Doom III sounds pretty stupid...no offense anyway.

Also, you are right about some of the weapons being overused, like the Super Shotgun and BFG. Yes...sadly the BFG would become far too trite if used in any more games. A nice replacement though, is this idea: An 'Ultimate Weapon' that is found only at the -end- of the game, perhaps even AFTER the final boss, and way more powerful than the BFG--but without losing weapon balance! Should still be creative...remember that Hand of God in Rise of the Triad? :)

[twisted]

I think a gaming company can only think of but so many kinds of futuristic weapons. I have always been satisfied with the arsenal at the player's disposal in all the id Software games. However, I am sure they will introduce some new weapons in the new doom hopefully! Hopefully, they will not make the stupid "alien arm" weapon that has appeared in many FPS like Half-Life. INMHO, I think it shows a lack of creativity:/

-twisted


------------------
Patrick 'twisted' Hardy
News Updates & Forums Moderator
http://www.newdoom.com

[Steven]

I'd like the same weapons in The new Doom

------------------
-Steve

[Phoebus]

Thanks guys, I agree: It should be referred to as the New DOOM! Nobody ever said it was going to be called Doom III, and that just doesn't sound/look good, IMO. I'm a little biased, but I really think The NEW DOOM just sounds perfect!

Sure you've played Doom, Doom II, and Final Doom . . . now here's the NEW DOOM!

The game that will not die. http://www.NEWDOOM.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
William Mull
NEWDOOM.com (http://NEWDOOM.com)
VoyagerEliteForce.com (http://VoyagerEliteForce.com)
RuneNews.com (http://RuneNews.com)
Soldier-of-Fortune.com (http://Soldier-of-Fortune.com)
Raven-Games.com (http://Raven-Games.com)
HereticII.com (http://HereticII.com)
HeXenWorld.NET (http://HeXenWorld.NET)
More to come!

[King_Ralph]

If there's one weapon they should keep, it's the chainsaw.

[Zack]

Agreed! Chainsaw all the way :)

[McBaine]

I think that the New Doom weapons should be big and futuristic. It needs at least 3 or 4 weapons from the past Doom games but heavily modified to look awsome.

[King_Ralph]

Ah! Here's a question!
Should there be a limited amount of inventory space??

Games are getting more and more realistic but do we want a set amount of weapons?
I'm not too sure about this one. I want big guns but i don't want to only hold about 4 of them.

[Zack]

In Rise of the Triad, I think you could only hold a certain number of weapons, or if not, then it was that you couldn't carry two specific weapons at the same time. When you picked one up, you would drop the other right there on the ground.

I personally don't like that idea. You're a marine! You can carry a ton if you have to! :)

--Zack

[GarGoyle]

huray for the chainsaw

but now we can saw of their arms so they can't do any more harm

and then their legs like in monthy pythons 'holy grail'

hilarious http://www.NEWDOOM.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
"it just gets better each day"

[twisted]

I would really like to see a limited amount of arsenal space, but I doubt id Software will pursue this. Having a limited amount of space to hold weapons proves to be even more of a challenge and is more realistic than carrying around 10+ weapons. Even though this setting was implemented in Soldier of Fortune, you could usually dig up more ammo of your dead enemies. However, if they did this in the new Doom, the aliens would have to have the same kind of guns as you. Otherwise if they didn't, it would be way too unfair to the player unless you had unlimited ammmo.

-twisted


------------------
Patrick 'twisted' Hardy
News Updates & Forums Moderator
http://www.newdoom.com

[King_Ralph]

I disagree.
If the enemies have the same weapons as you then there will be too much ammo! I want there to be rare amounts of ammo and you have to resort to your chainsaw or something. And when you're in big trouble you should have to run!

[Zack]

For Doom, limited arsenal would stink up the game.

I wanna see a lot more explosions! In the original engine, all that exploded were waste barrels and launched rockets. Neither Quake nor Q3A had more explosions than that, either. Quake2 and Half-Life had nice explosions (although the Q2 ones had too few polygons...would be better off as sprites).

Go watch James Bond in The World is Not Enough, and think about all those explosions :)

--Zack

[Zack]

Dual chainguns would make things less realistic. With your hands full, how would you open doors or pick up items?

Also, to supply more realism, certainitems you pick up shouldn't just dissapear. After all...it's not like you have been carrying every used medkit box with you!

Instead, after you use a medikit, it should appear on the floor still, only used. Like fallen over and items spilling out of it or something similar. In Deathmatch, it would just pack itself back together :)

Another example would be health potions. Instead of carrying every blue jug with you, it should appear on its side and empty. In deathmatch, it'll stand back up on its own and magically refill itself with its mysterious bubbly liquid!

Weapons you already have should be the same way...if you pick up a second weapon it should remain on the floor with the ammo taken out of it, until someone without that weapon (in deathmatch) picks it up. Also in deathmatch, if ammo is taken out, it might fill itself with ammo again before being picked up.

Another realistic effect is blood everywhere. Not just on the walls and floor, but on items, too. See that shotgun guy you just killed? Blood got splattered from his open chest onto the shotgun. You don't have a shotgun yet, so you walk over it to pick it up. And, now in your HUD, you can still see the actual blood on your shotgun in the same places that it was when it first got splattered!

One more thing...in deathmatch or chasecam modes, it could look like you are actually bending over to pick up items--or better yet, just kicking them into your free hand or backpack with your feet!

--Zack

[Eric Q. Pfeiffer]

Hey I like Zacks idea about the GOD mode, like in ROTD where you actually became god...shweet! I think the chainsaw and the berserk are definites. I also wouldn't mind seeing a bunch of easter eggs...Like one cool thing in Rise of the triad was that if you played the game around xmas time, xmas music would be playing.

[King_Ralph]

Yeah! Easter eggs are essential!!

[Zack]

argh! Stop that, Ralph! Stoppit stoppit stoppit! That's cheating!! :)

--Zack

[King_Ralph]

What did I do?
All said is that easter eggs are essential. Is that wrong?
If you're worried about me catching up with the amount of posts you have then don't be as your way ahead of me and it doesn't really matter.

[Zack]

Hehehe. I'm just saying you keep agreeing on posts as if you are only posting to catch up.

Anyway, why are easter eggs so important?? I don't understand that.

--Zack

[This message has been edited by Zack (edited 06-10-2000).]

[King_Ralph]

Because they give the game good repay value. Unless you're talking about easter eggs that you can only get to by cheating...well they're just funny. http://www.NEWDOOM.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Zack]

Easter eggs are funny only if you are an id fan. Otherwise they just completely ruin the atmosphere for everyone else. 'Specially newbies. Although if the idsters insert themselves into the game plot somehow that may not be as bad. You know, like you see John Carmack suddenly running around a corner toward you, screaming for help, and behind him from the corner emerges a new enemy that chops poor John's head clean off with a sword :) ...or you could save him and he can give you vital information, or become an important role in the game somehow...

--Zack

[Doom_Dude]

I would like to see them put into the New Doom a weapon i just thought of called the Shurikan Chucker ! This weapon has a long , narrow barrel with a groove down its length , where the high velocity shurikans fly out of a magazine of about 20 shurikans ! Can you imagine walkin' into a trap , where about 20 imps come otta nowhere and you let loose with the Shurikan Chucker ! Blades are flyin everywhere , cuttin imps up into bits of fur and blood ! You end up takin some damage because of the ricocheting shurikans , but it takes care of the imps . For a weapon like this , the ammo should be a little sparse , so you'd just save your ammo for tough encounters . Sounds also like a fun Dm weapon too . Imagine releasing the flyin shurikans into a room of enemies . Is this a good idea for a weapon or what ?

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[This message has been edited by Doom_Dude (edited 06-15-2000).]

[JoeCosman]

in all honesty, I really despise Easter Eggs and cheat codes in games. sure, its fun when you just want to play around, but in order to maintain the proper feelings and desperation, there shouldnt be any form of cheating(instead, just wait for the hack that comes out weeks after release)

when encountering a really big boss, you lose the feeling of survival when you can just 'pop' open the console and type GODMODE=1.

this just means you really dont want to play at all.

for some people it is an incredible challenge to beat the levels without using any type of cheats, codes, or hacks.(check out the Quake done Quick films for an example) this not only provides entertaining encounters, but also teaches you different techniques for accomplishing tasks(who could have thought that you can rocket jump up to that inaccessible sniping spot??) the goal?

think different.

[Zack]

I agree. However, cheats are still good for the million-to-one chance that you are absolutely stuck. In Half-Life, I only saved by means of Quicksaving, and by the time I reached Nihilanth at the end, I was in bad shape and had no savegame when I -wasn't- in bad shape...I ended up working on the final map (while literally developing a fear of teleporters at the same time *shudder*) for at least a week, until I concluded it impossible unless I started over completely. And consiering it always took my k6-200 about 3 minutes to load each map, I decided to take the quicker way out and cheat. I enabled notargets so that nihilanth completely forgot I was there, but for some reason or other, maybe because of a bug in the CD release, the map wouldn't fade out and lead to the conclusion, and I was walking around staring at a defeated Nihilanth for quite a while...had to WARP to the conclusion; lucky for me, the console actually stated what map came next.

So basically cheats when you start are pretty bad. A good idea is to have the game actually watch you play it, and when it realizes that you have been failing at least 10 or 15 times, will allow you to cheat until you arrive to the next map or position in the map.

--Zack

[CRETE]

OK, guys lets' not get off topic.
I wanna talk about the chainsaw sitchiashun.
Chainsaws tend to be sloppy, making it difficult for creators to make realistic localized damage for it. What about more of a sword type weapon? Not even a real sword. More of a long knife. A machetti even. That would give an excuse to have nice clean damage like that shown in Soldier of Fortune. Y hit some demon wit a low shot and boom it's leg is oof it's body all flailing like a geko's tail. With a cainsaw, yor gonna have to have ripped muscle tissue and a lot more blood spatter everywhere. Besides, where do you keep a chainsaw?

[CRETE]

Oh, and before I forget I need to make one thing clear.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THERE BE A SNIPER RIFLE IN THE NEW DOOM! THIS IS NOT RAINBOW SIX OR SOLDIER OF FORTUNE TYPE GAMEPLAY! I'M SERIOUS, NO SNIPER RIFLE!

-Viva La Resistance

[This message has been edited by CRETE (edited 06-17-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

Send me to cheaters anonymous ! I use cheats and i will use them again ! Don't take away my beautiful cheats !

So now that everyone thinks i'm a cheater of the first degree , let me tell ya where i use all these cheats . In level designing ! I rarely use em in actual gameplay , but man it sure does make a mapper's life easier to noclip through a wall to check out a room or whatever . Sure beats walkin' through two miles of corridors , just to look at a texture alignment . Just to refresh all your gaming memories , the cheats ain't there for your use ( in theory ) , but are implemented for the game designers ( practice ) . They ain't gonna go away anytime soon ( cheats that is ) . All they ( game developers ) can do is make it harder for gamers to get at . But some dude always cracks the code and releases the info on how to enable the cheats anyways . Also , with games shipping with editor programs nowadays , they might as well release the codes for designer purposes . Besides , if gamer X doesn't have the will power to keep away from cheat codes , then gamer X should sign up for Cheaters Anonymous . Too bad gamer X couldn't stay away from cheats , for he went and ruined his game . Besides how the hell did you expect gamer X to get that stupid staff of Nerfertum ?

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[King_Ralph]

I hate cheats.
Evil things that spoil the game.
Doom is meant to be scary.
How will that be when you have god mode on.
You do the game in order.
You use the guns you find.
You take the damage from your enemies.

Cheats are for the scum of hell.

But it you are using cheats AFTER you have completed the game without them then I suppose it's ok.
Actually, how about you can only use cheats on the difficulty you have completed it on?
I reckon it's good idea.

[CRETE]

What about alternative fire?
Should id give in and just be one of the many game companies who makes weapons that can have more than one use? I can understand the zoom in QIII but that shouldn't be consisdered the same as alternative fire since it could be done with the gauntlet which really has no use for a zoom. Alternative fire or no?

[Doom_Dude]

Cheats are evil things that spoil the game , only to those who are foolish enough to abuse them . If Joe Blow wants to ruin his game with cheats , then who the heck gives a flyin' rats ass . Go ahead Joe , use god mode to get past the cyberdemon , but when i play it i'm gonna use my double barreled , shot gun and a lot of strafin' . The cheats are there , like i said , for a reason . Might as well get used to em .

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[CRETE]

1. Machetti
2. Desert Eagle
3. Pump Double Barrelled Shotgun
4. ?
5. Gatling Gun
6. ?
7. Rocket Launcher
8. Plasma Rifle
9. Laser Cutter
0. Hand of God

I just set this folder on fire!

-Viva La Resistance

[This message has been edited by CRETE (edited 06-18-2000).]

[Doom_Dude]

Some items we actually agree on .

1) Venomous Throwing Knife
2) 9mm Hand Gun
3) Double Barrelled Shotgun ( over & under )
4) Chaingun
5) Grenade Launcher ( Gas grenades & Lava Grenades )
6) Proximity Mine
7) Rocket Launcher ( plasma rockets & High Impact )
8) Shurikan Chucker
9) Laser Rifle
0) Staff Of Doom

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[CRETE]

I notice that you have some weapons with dual firing options.
I don't think that that is in classic id tradition. Putting in an alternative fire makes the new DOOM just like any other fps.
Proximity Mine sounds more like something that needs to be in an inventory. My belief is that all #'s should be propulsion devices.
I also think that the weapons should sound like something that would be issued by an organization or government. The shuriekan chucker should be left for a more old school type game like Hexen or sumfin.
Where is the plasma rifle? That gun should absolutely be redesigned and modeled solely for the purpose of letting us DOOM fans hear the delightful noise it makes. NO rocket can replace that weapon.
Over Under? That means the barrels should be one on top of the other right? Cuz I'm all for that.

-Viva La Resistance

[Doom_Dude]

You said that dual firing weapons we're never a id thing , yet in the Quake mission packs we had the following :

Nail gun ( regular nails / lava nails )
Rocket launcher ( normal rockets / multi rockets )
Lightning gun ( lightning mode / plasma mode )
Grenade Launcher ( grenades / multi grenades )

Though the mission packs were developed by Hipnotic Interactive and Rogue they stiil have the good ole id stamp on em .

What the heck is a laser cutter ? Can i open my tin of beans with that ?

Yeah , one barrel above the other ! At least we agree on some stuff .

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[McBaine]

Yeah, over/under shot gun barrels id the way to go. however, i think that the game should include a SEMI-automatic assault rifle, as an alternative to the ammo-guzzling chaingun. it would be cool if you could toggle ammo from armor piercing and explosive tipped rounds. maybe the chaingun would fire the explosive tipped, and the assault rifle would fire the armor piercing.
maybe instead of the bullets being propelled by gun powder, they could be powered by electro-magnet propulsion thus providing railgun like power but without the long recharge time between shots. remember, this is the future we're talkin about. the chaingun is great for speed-damage, whilst the assault rifle for those times when long range accurecy is needed.


[This message has been edited by McBaine (edited 06-19-2000).]

[CRETE]

Mission packs were never my thing.

To answer your question, the laser cutterwold basically be the equivalent of the lightning gun only you wouldliterally be able to saw your enemies up with it. The damage would decrease as your enemy got farther away from you but it would still be one hell of a weapon. It could be worked into the plot as a tool which was dropped by some marine engineers who were sent in before you to clear the way for the other marines.

-Viva La Resistance

[King_Ralph]

There better be more than 10 weapons. I mean you can't be lazy and do 10 weapons because there are only 10 slots. They should perhaps use half-life's catergory system.

And if you start off with a pistol then I'm going to scream. There have been too many games that begin with a pistol. I say you should start off with a flame thrower. First of all they could show off the graphics. Second of all it would make sense that it is not a good weapon as you can't really set demons on fire as they aren't wearing any clothes. Some enemies wont have any damage made to them as they are already on fire and it would only really be good against the zombies/grunts as they are wearing clothes. Thirdly it would be good to light up dark places with.

[CRETE]

You tryin to tell me that flesh can't burn?
We don't need no stnking cloths to burn sumfin! Problem is, these are demons. Ithink they've kinda gotten used to the whole fire and brimstone routine.

-Viva La Resistance

[Doom_Dude]

I like McBaines ideas on the chaingun and semi automatic rifle using different types of rounds .

CRETE , the laser cutter is a good idea , but should it be assigned a weapons slot ? It sounds more like an inventory item like my proximity mine suggestion .

How can nakedness keep ya from being fried by a flame thrower ? I think the flame thrower is a ugly style of weapon like the Unreal sludge gun jobby . What if the flame thrower was more like a liquid nitrogen thrower , that would freeze imps into solid blocks of ice . Ah S*#t thats too much like that Duke Nukem weapon .

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[CRETE]

Wait.
I'm confused. You're the one who brought up the clothes/flamethrower argument. I don't know where i stand anymore. I think I misunderstood the first message and will reread it. But I do not think it should be #2. It should be a higher number if it's gonna exist at all.

-Viva La Resistance

[King_Ralph]

It would be a very original idea to start off with a flame thrower. But other weapons would be fine as long as you don't start off with a pistol!!

[CRETE]

What if it was a really powerful pistol?
You could get a Desert Eagle or a Laser Pistol or something that could actually kill an imp with one correctly placed shot?

-Viva La Resistance

[Zack]

I'd like to see the game start with you having an entire arsenal of weapons! That would be just slightly more realistic. Space marines would know that fighting demonic creatures from Hell would be just a bit tougher than fighting human beings, and should all be equipped with a number of weapons. Pistol, shotgun, chaingun, the normal stuff. And then after just the beginning of the game, something happens to you, you fall unconscious (trip, or a cyb CLONKS his rocket-arm on your head) and when you wake up...you have nothing but your bare fist, and quicly seek a new weapon.

--Zack

[CRETE]

Why did they take your weapons and not kill you?
Who took my weapons, Zack? Tell me or I will come to your house and I will...ok...calming down now. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! WHERE ARE MY #^(!ING WEAPONS!? OK! THAT'S IT! I'M COMIN DOWN THERE!

-My Power Be Upon You

[Zack]

While you are hiking from Rhode Island to Pennsylvania, I might inform you that the Cyberdemon has no knowledge of human medical technology or the human anatomy, and took you for dead after you fell unconscious. He stole your weapons to build and enhance his own fleet...perhaps even give himself a rocket launcher on his other arm!!!

--Zack

[CRETE]

Oh! Let me continue this!
He leaves the scene of your fall but drops his cyberdemon wallet. You pick up the wallet (which has pictures of his cyberdemon kids) and you say "Hey, Dude! Your Wallet!"
He doesn't hear you so you have to go to the fraggin suburbs of Hell (what a hastle) and give him back his wallet. He invites you in to meet the kids and take alook at the new closet he just had installed. You say "Whoah! Nice Closet!" And that is the beginning of a beautiful frienship between the both of you...until his kids are eating your heart while you're asleep.

-My Power Be Upon You

[Doom_Dude]

If someone takes all my fraggin' weapons again like they did in Half~Life then i'm gonna go and bury my computer in the backyard . I don't wanna see that foolishness again in any game , especially Doom ! The dirty buggers did it to me a second time too when i was stupid enough to play Sin . No weapons stealin' please !!!!

------------------
The only good Vile is a dead Vile .

[Zack]

I thought the 'weapons-stealing' was really neat in Half-Life! It was an original idea. But if new Doom took the idea without modifying it any, it would kinda stink.

In Cyberia2, you looked down from the top of a very tall building, and are so scared of the height that you dropped your gun...that was okay, too, because it wasn't stolen from the enemy, and it gives more of a challenge without a weapon, until you ran into the ship equipped with a laser turret.

Plus, the main character has the same name as me!!!

[JoeCosman]

how about using the environment props for weapons.

example:
grabbing a chair from the mess hall and beating to death the imp who shot you in the ass....

[JoeCosman]

of course, if you could do that, you can chuck the chair into the middle of a room and blow it up with a rocket launcher, spraying shrapnel everywhere.
kind of like a homemade Handgrenade.