jDoom Resource Pack (jDRP) 1.01

[Chilvence]

For some odd reason i feel the need to point out that beer is an excellent cure for anxiety in times like these.

[Jimbo.Jack]

not when you're by yourself

[Gordon228]

is this post now about beer or is it still on the topic of the JDRP?

[FreeLanZer]

LoL I grapped a beer... Thanx for the advice ;)
Anyway... Cheers..! *party*

[Weenuk]

Always glad to be help in these times of need, lol. I do have to agree with Chilvence. Anyway, back on topic. What kind of new models and 'stuff' are we going to be looking at grading and giving our opinions on in the near future? Mostly HUD models, decor, pickups, monsters, or some combination of everything. Any new effects like fireballs and stuff been worked on recently? I guess I am bored, maybe i'll go get a beer and join you FreeLanZer.

[tomrok777]

i think im gonna have a couple beers myself. sadly all ive got right now is bud, which is damn near the bottom of the barrel in my mind (being broke sucks, i just smoked my last ciggarette). but i guess if youre desperate enough, beer is beer. i hope we get some hud weapons in this latest pack, id really like to see that bfg finished, and possibly the shotty.

[DaniJ]

Ok guys n girls, I'm gonna have to take a shortcut tonight as I need to go out and won't have the time to update the jDRP Alpha website (I'll do that tomorrow).

So I've zipped up the whole of the current jDRP 1.1 alpha.

IF you want to download it here are the directions:

Win32 users:
You won't be able to use it with Snowberry due to a command-line length limit in WinXP. Instead you will need to extract the entire contents to /Data/jDoom/Auto DO NOT USE THE FOLDER NAMES WHEN EXTRACTING, all files should end up in the root /Data/jDoom/Auto.

You could install it as a Snowberry addon anyway but not all the modules will be loaded. If you do remember to remove any other jDRP modules you might have installed in /Data/jDoom/Auto.
---

Linux/Unix/MacOS/BEOS etc:
You CAN use it as a Snowberry addon if you wish OR you can simply install directly to /Data/jDoom/Auto.

To use it as a Snowberry addon:
Extract the contents of the zip to /Snowberry/Addons MAKE SURE TO USE THE FOLDER NAMES. After that simply start Snowberry and you will see it in the addons tree.
If you have previously installed any jDRP 1.1 Alpha files in Data/jDoom/Auto you should remove them.

To use in Data/jDoom/Auto:
You will need to extract the entire contents to /Data/jDoom/Auto DO NOT USE THE FOLDER NAMES WHEN EXTRACTING, all files should end up in the root /Data/jDoom/Auto.
---

Heres the link jDRP.box.zip (http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/files/jDRP.box.zip) - 37mb (it's a regular zip file)

Don't worry about the Devmode option in jDRP's settings panel in Snowberry it doesn't do anything without my magic responce file *smirk*.

And now a bit about what's included:
This update was mainly about getting jDRP in Snowberry addon format so don't expect many NEW models but several have been finished/improved. Other than that this release contains mostly bug fixes, but there are a few new goodies included as well as final versions of about a dozen models (mostly items and projectiles). Also included is a much cleaned up ultimate Doom titlepic (cheers chiv) and a few other new GUI patches (I've created a new DoomII credits pic, given the episode 1 map a spruce up and a few minor things).

[Caden]

I guess I haven't kept up, but what is Snowberry, and why do I/should I use it?

[Weenuk]

New version of the launcher. Oh boy, exams are over and I am drunk, so I hope I am right there. Keep up the good work Dani, I'll try to get on the resurrection stuff now that I am done, though there will be the week of total drunken bliss lol.

[Skitso]

New yellow and blue keycards sure are shiny but they don't look as good as they used to. Red keycard doesn't have a shinemap and looks much better than the other two.

Finally the backback has a texture. I suppose it's not a final version as it seems to lack any kind of details.

Green armour is still WIP...

Caco's horn shinemaps don't work properly.

[xZAOx]

Hey Dani, I took some screens of errors/anomolies I saw. You probably know about them, and they've been mentioned before, but hey, why not :)

http://xzaox.no-ip.com/jdrp/
1 - getting that blue line around the edges of the rims
2 - texture is not blending right at the edges (you can clearly see where the texture ends)
3 - red keycard has no shinemap
4 - Is the skull suppossed to look like that?

-Rob

[porjay]

wow everytime i see new things takes my breath away. *shocked* I don't really worry about telling you whats wrong because usually the items/model arn't complete and i know you see them. I'm just happy a talented model/skinner is remastering doom. I think its clever how you interprete the sprites and make then life like. Sometimes I can't even understand the sprite such as like death animations i can't interprete how they are actually dieing eg the demon knight. I can't wait to see and understand how they die.

Anyway keep up the FANTASTIC work. Can't wait for your next release *dark*

[porjay]

1 - getting that blue line around the edges of the rims
2 - texture is not blending right at the edges (you can clearly see where the texture ends)
3 - red keycard has no shinemap
4 - Is the skull suppossed to look like that?

-Rob

1. possibly the sprite is popping out of the model? ( i get same thing )
2. I get same thing
3. I'm pretty sure he knows just has been working on other models.
4. The model and skin arn't complete

All in all I'm sure its just things Dani hasn't finished yet *thumbs*

[Lightning Hunter]

This thread sure did slow down all of a sudden... This is one of the first few times that Dani does something and hardly any replies follow. I think you have to release something like a monster to attract everyone to this thread again Dani. I'm not trying to push you or anything, but feedback probably won't grow big again until people see something bigger pop out of the works. Thats ok though, it should leave you with more time to work on things since you don't have to reply as much here.

[Da_maniaC]

Hey guys...

I've been away from here a long time. Had a lot of stuff to do regarding other projects as well ass IRL, so i had to set priorities.

I was just wondering though... has the official beta rtesting begun yet?

And hows that modeller that joined the Dev team doing?

Any progress yet?

:)

[tomrok777]

And hows that modeller that joined the Dev team doing?


this is a good question. i totally forgot about the guy until you brought him up. is he still involved? is he working on something or has any of his work been released? if he is still around, id really like to see what he's done, how it compares to dani's work and such.

[FreeLanZer]

Dani: "SO... I will try again tomorrow."
...:( It's been a while...

[KevinCoyle]

I'd like to still help out, but for the next few weeks I have to finish my demo reel as I am graduating in june. Then it's off to find a job. I may be able to contribute some while I'm searching for employment, however long that might take...

[DaniJ]

Dani: "SO... I will try again tomorrow."
... It's been a while...I've just not had time. I released it in that big pack so I figured you'd all be OK till I had chance to update the site.
I will have the time tomorrow as I've got nothing going on.

No beta testing has begun yet.

Over the next couple of weeks I hope to get all of the current semi finished models complete before I release any more unfinished stuff.

I'm not surprised there hasn't been much feedback recently it doesn't bother me as I know what I need to do. That shiny keycard issue is odd though I'll look into that.

What problem with the caco's horns? I thought I'd fixed the lighting issue with them?

[sLydE]

anybody have that link for the test wad? I spent a long time looking back through and couldn't find it.

[FreeLanZer]

Here:
http://www.multokraftos.1go.dk/LB/jdrptest.wad
^_^

[Skitso]

Caco's horns are completely white or black depending on players view angle. No texture whatsoever.

[DaniJ]

Skitso: Sounds like you either need to update Doomsday or your video card doesn't support multitexturing 100% try toggling it in the control panel.

[Skitso]

My Doomsday is up to date and my Videocard is A6600GT... so I suppose those can't cause the problem... All other shiny things however work flawlessly.

[Skitso]

Oh, I just realized that the Caco-bug is present only in the Direct3d-mode. In OpenGL it works just fine. Strange?

[DaniJ]

I might know what the problem is... I'll try to fix it for next time.

[DistantJ]

Could someone perhaps post some screenshots?

[CrazedImp]

Yes, i'd like to post some screenshots, but since im a newbie i cant really know how yet, ah well i'm sure somebody here has enough experience (and time, lol) to do so

[DistantJ]

Use the print screen + paste method, save it as a jpeg, sign up to http://www.photobucket.com, upload the image, then write then the url of the image then

[CrazedImp]

Ok, hopefully this worked right... i have 3 screenies, one of the cacodemon (with proper horns), the bfg and the imp fireball and chaingun(tho not extremely clear but you can see it.

Caco: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/girman/cacodemon.jpg
Fireball/chaingun: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/girman/impys.jpg
BFG: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/girman/bfg.jpg

If it doesnt come up well... i'll try posting again.

Send me an email at girman@msn.com if they're not the screenshots u wanted, and send me a list ones you do want.
And just a random question, im running on a GeforceFX5700 with 3.4ghz P4 and 1.5GB of DDR RAM, yet im only getting on average 60FPS... is this normal or can i raise that?

[DistantJ]

Thankyou sir. Those look great! I still don't like the Shotgun though, lol... It doesn't have a sight on the end or anything, and the skinning at the bottom is horrible... There was one shotty model I used to have and LOVED. Though I had to re-skin it to be more black. Was made by the same guy as the pistol model... I wonder if I can find that again.

[xZAOx]

I could be wrong, but isn't that still a 1.0 shotgun? Dani hasn't released the new single shotgun model yet for 1.1 alpha.

-Rob

[DaniJ]

Yeah thats the really old shotgun HUD model. Which reminds me I really should finish the new one soon...

I'm currently thinking I won't be releasing anything further till 1.8.7 is released as some of the stuff I'm doing atm will require it.

What does everyone think of the new rocket and cacodemon projectiles?

[CrazedImp]

I think that the rocket projectile looks really good, and the caco projectile is excellent... though is it possible in the 1.8.7 release we'll see the HUD rocket launcher and possibly the new/polished monsters? (personally i'd like to see the finished demon without that annoying bug where it turns into a spectre for half a second).
Keep up the great work... everybody really appreciates it!!!

[DaniJ]

HUD rocket launcher - definetly
new/polished monsters - some, yes
finished demon - probably

:)

I've been doing some work on the caco and arachnotron models - fixing the worst of the bugs and trying to get them closer to the sprites. Both of which will be in the next update along with the (now finished) armor, rad suit and large cell items.

Next on the todo list is finishing optimising DaJuice's big tree model (currently stands at 4780 polys reduced from 9344 *sick*) so I can then UVW map and skin it.

In the mean time I've almost finished unwrapping the mangled tree trunk and I'm currently skinning the stalag (grey pointy stalagtite rock thingy).

Plus I've finaly got the HUD chainsaw in-game. I'll post some screens of this stuff soon.

Chilvence - Did you get my mail about your zombies & modded player model?

[Ravey]

CrazedImp: I think that the FPS is capped at 60fps but you could probably change it through the config or console, I don't think that it was capped in the old versions though.

Nice screenshots by the way. :)

[DistantJ]

Dani, perhaps you could create a right-hold weapons addon with your models too? They all look fantastic, but it'd be cool to try them out shifted to the side so that they don't obscure the view.

[RiffRaff]

Dani, perhaps you could create a right-hold weapons addon with your models too? They all look fantastic, but it'd be cool to try them out shifted to the side so that they don't obscure the view.


NO!!!!!!!!

we've been through this already.

[Mr. Chris]

60 FPS is all one needs. Also Dani, why wait for 1.8.7 tho? What's in 1.8.7 that 1.8.6 does not have?

[DistantJ]

NO!!!!!!!!

we've been through this already.

What? And what in the HELL is wrong with giving people the option?

[DaniJ]

Well for BFG at least there won't be a right hold option :D

[draconx]

60 FPS is all one needs. Also Dani, why wait for 1.8.7 tho? What's in 1.8.7 that 1.8.6 does not have?Not entirely true. The ideal fps is always exactly the same as whatever your monitor's refresh is.

[DistantJ]

But your eye will rarely catch anything faster than 60FPS or notice a difference. The only difference higher refresh rates makes is that everything is clearer, nothing appears to move any more smoothly though.

Anyways 60FPS is a blessing, considering most games consoles usually run at something like 25 for most games.

[Relica Religia]

Getting as much FPS as you can without sacrificing too much eye candy is generally the way to go. Sure, the human eye can't register movements much over 60 or 65 FPS, but it's nice to have a constant 80 or so (if you can achieve such a thing) just for a buffer or "comfort zone," in case you hit a taxing area in the game.

Glad to see new updates, Dani. I can understand your decision to wait until 1.8.7 - as long as releases are forthcoming, I'm happy. *kewl*

[CrazedImp]

Ah i suppose it doesnt really matter, it practically never lags, its just of some screenshots i've seen say like "78.9FPS" or something. I still need to uprgrade my card to like a 6800 though, D3 runs at like 40fps.

And dani, good to hear the RL is finally coming, probably the HUD weapon i wanted to see the most, and the right hold option should be great, i dont understand why some people wont like it, right hold weapons are in practically all modern FPS.

[Organicjerk]

But your eye will rarely catch anything faster than 60FPS or notice a difference.

From what i understand, the stated 60fps human eye limit is a common misconception.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

"So the conclusion is: To make movies/Virtual Reality perfect, you'd have to know what you want. To have a perfect illusion of everything that can flash, blink and move you shouldn't go below 500 fps."

[KYPREO]

Not entirely true. The ideal fps is always exactly the same as whatever your monitor's refresh is.

exactly.

too low...jerky
too high...thrashing

[Chilvence]

The human eye doesn't work in FPS.

To be practical you need look no further than draconx's post. Since your eyes are interpreting light in a continuous stream, the concern is based less on how fast the screen refreshes, and more on the substance of the images. Generally, anything above or below the refresh rate of your monitor results in very subtle defects in the visual stream getting to your head, such as very slight tearing or erratically timed frame sequences rather than nice, steady constant ones. Like it or not, your brain is registering these artifacts, although most people have trained themselves to block them out - much like when you go to the cinema, you notice all the flickering white crap on the film for a few moments and then its gone. To make an analogy though, if you live on a very busy street, you might eventually get used to the noise, but you'd still feel better of if it wasn't there.

So in other words, chill out, move to the countryside and start a farm. Or just turn on Vsync and stop agonising over the microscopic difference in responsiveness :)

edit: I took so long to type that that 10 people got in ahead of me :)

[Duckattack]

hi

sorry to be a pain in the ass, but im a big fan and i was reading your posts, and you were talking about the next update, and you havent updated yoru jdrp alpha site in a while so i thought you were uploading somewhere else, i dont know if this is a stupid question but if im right can i have the link

thanks

[draconx]

Since people never seem to get this, lets just assume someone says "i get 500 fps therefore my game is better". Now lets say (to make the math simple) that the monitor refresh is 100Hz.

That means that your monitor finishes a scan from top to bottom 100 times a second. But with this 500fps, the graphics card is sending it new data to draw 500 times a second. This can be simplified: During one vertical pass of the monitor, it is told to draw 5 different images

Now the monitor isn't very bright, so whenever it gets new data it goes "Aha! New data! We're supposed to draw this, who cares about what we were doing before!". The old data is thrown away and replaced with the new data, which is then plotted on the screen from wherever it left off on the old data

So 5 images, one refresh. The monitor will draw the top 1/5th of the first image on the screen, recieve a video update, and draw the next 1/5th of the screen using the new image. It will continue until the screen is drawn completely. This results in 4 "tears" between these segments of the screen (they can be very noticable when there is a large horizontal displacement between the frames - i always see this on the pendulum thing at the start of chrono trigger if i dont have vsync on).

There i typed that out. These tears also occur at lower framerates too. The only time you will not get tearing is when your framerate is a factor of your monitor's refresh rate

Edit: There is an exception to this rule. If you are playing quake III, you can use this calculator (http://www.funender.com/quake/info/fps.htm) to work out the framerate that lets you jump the highest :)

[CrazedImp]

Hmm i never looked at it that way... ah well you learn something new everyday

[FreeLanZer]

Dani this release reminds me of the release of Half-Life² :( ...
Please post some screenshots... very soon.

[DaniJ]

I will do.

It's nice that you compare my work to Half-Life² *smirk*

I've got a lot of stuff on atm. For the next week I'm finishing the work I've be doing on deng 1.8.7, when thats done I'll continue on with the jDRP.

[CrazedImp]

Yes its true that JDRP1.1 is taking a long time to complete, as did half-life2 and D3, but we were patient with those games, no different here (i want it.... lol)

Though some new screenshots sound nice.. that should satisfy me until some new updates come out.

[SMB]

Hey, that kick-ass blood-drip effect got me thinking... and I ended up with this slower, more cinematic effect... where it fades to black. Tell me what you think?

InFine {
ID = "blooddrip"
Script {
IFNOT netgame DO
NoSkip
ColorAlpha 0 0 0 0
Rect redbox 0 -280 0 0
FillColor redbox TOP .326 .019 .019 .2
FillColor redbox BOTTOM .35 .04 .04 .7
ScaleXY redbox 320 200
Rect deadfx 0 -80 320 10
XImage deadfx "Deaddrip"
Alpha deadfx .7
In 8
ColorAlpha 1 0 0 .2
ScaleXY deadfx 320 300
Y deadfx 200
Y redbox 0
Wait 5
In 3
ColorAlpha .15 0 0 1
Wait 3
In 3
FillColor redbox BOTH 0 0 0 1
MARKER PAUSE
Wait 3
GOTO PAUSE
CanSkip
;
}
}

[DaniJ]

It does the same thing as the existing one but in a more round-about way?

The current one already does fade to black but only slightly as I don't think it should completely onscure your view.

[SMB]

I always thought it was you DIEING. I don't think you should have very good vision when you're dead.
Plus, this starts fading before the blood drip reaches the bottom, which is why its more complex.
But, yes, it is just a tweak. I'm not saying you have to use any of my crap :D. (BTW, is there a more appropriate section for stuff like this? Resource 'yard' of some sort, so things can be reviewed, counter-tweaked, etc?)

[Relica Religia]

Dani, did your site go down or something? Because This link (http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/) isn't working.

EDIT: Whoops, nevermind, forgot to put the last bit on the end there.

[Jimbo.Jack]

Dani, Should jdql.tk link to the modelyard, or your jdrp 1.1 site?

[DaniJ]

You can link to both if you 'd like. I'm not sure yet what will happen with the ModelYard since I can't use PHP on that domain...

Yeah you need to add /jDRPAlpha to the url.

[FreeLanZer]

Dani.. Please release some screenshots today... Or just some ported screenshots... !

[Romanov77]

Dani, I opened your site with Firefox and IE.... but I found NO images...


Btw, you rule, thanks for all your efforts !!

[Mad Max RW]

You have to register first then go to the download section. When you scroll over something a small image pops up. As it stands only a handful of things have pics along with them. Shotgun shells, ammo box, an old HUD chaingun, key cards, and I think that's it.

I'm thinking interest has faded considerably in the last year. That's fine. I don't think my jDoom configuration can get much better, to be honest. Extremely high res textures, fog, better skies, perfect HUD graphics, guns, blood splatter, cool particle effects, light emitters on certain textures, colored light, very good 3D monsters with great skins, etc., etc., all while preserving the Doom feel.Mission accomplished. Unless bump mapping, real time shadows, and ragdoll physics is introduced, not much more can be done without needlessly redoing already good work.

[Lightning Hunter]

You have to register first then go to the download section. When you scroll over something a small image pops up. As it stands only a handful of things have pics along with them. Shotgun shells, ammo box, an old HUD chaingun, key cards, and I think that's it.

I'm thinking interest has faded considerably in the last year. That's fine. I don't think my jDoom configuration can get much better, to be honest. Extremely high res textures, fog, better skies, perfect HUD graphics, guns, blood splatter, cool particle effects, light emitters on certain textures, colored light, very good 3D monsters with great skins, etc., etc., all while preserving the Doom feel.Mission accomplished. Unless bump mapping, real time shadows, and ragdoll physics is introduced, not much more can be done without needlessly redoing already good work.

This is not the case for me... I think the monsters are still cartoonish compared to what Dani is capable of. I'm just waiting for 3d models of monsters or bigger decorations. I especially want to see what Dani does with hanging bodies, since gore seems to be his specialty.

It sure seems to me that Dani was much faster at skinning when he very first joined the community! He's either become more meticulous on his own work, has less time to work, or is a procrastinator. :)

[Mad Max RW]

The "new" batch of monsters look pretty much identical to the ones I already have plus a few glitches and unfinished parts. They're admittedly little more than skin changes. His long awaited imp was the best looking thing to never be released. Keep in mind we've seen so little and heard so much after a year. A year. Put up or shut up. That's how it works. I've seen countless mods, games, whatever, lead people along forever until all attention is eventually lost. I've been on both sides, I know how it works.

Dani will probably never admit it, but I know he lost most of his drive in completing jDRP.

[SMB]

Do note that he's also developing DD now. (SkyJake is mostly doing Hawthorn aka Doomsday 2)
In fact, he's taken up a lot of projects here... and there is still the dreaded RL.
I got back here about a year later and found 4... FOUR DD releases since then. But then, SkyJake did say quite clearly that he would have more RL work, and he's doing it on a new engine, too. I think they're doing quite well, if you ask me. (But then, I did drop out of the Resurrection Mod for several RL reasons)

[EDIT]: Dani, I can confirm that the jDRP 1.1 site doesn't work properly in Opera. You can still get the files, but have no idea what they look like, or what the ratings are

[Technomancer]

That's pretty harsh there Mad Max, I mean, try and put yourself in Dani's shoes for a sec. He's taken on a huge project because it's something he wants to do. It's not something he has to do, if he wanted, he could just walk away right now, it's not his job, it's voluntary. I mean, how would you feel if you were rebuilding a classic car and all of a sudden someone comes out of the blue and demands that you have it ready to race by any set date? I think that, right there, would kill my motivation.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is just relax, have a beer and wait and see what Dani feels like producing, if we get some cool stuff then all right! If we don't, then atleast we've got something that we never had before.

I personally think that Dani is doing a hell of a service to the Doom Community and that we should be grateful to him, not demanding.

Good job on everything thus far Dani, and I hope you keep it up for us! *casper*

[draconx]

The "new" batch of monsters look pretty much identical to the ones I already have plus a few glitches and unfinished parts. They're admittedly little more than skin changes. His long awaited imp was the best looking thing to never be released. Keep in mind we've seen so little and heard so much after a year. A year. Put up or shut up. That's how it works. I've seen countless mods, games, whatever, lead people along forever until all attention is eventually lost. I've been on both sides, I know how it works.

Dani will probably never admit it, but I know he lost most of his drive in completing jDRP.If Dani is actually losing his drive to complete the project (which I don't believe for a moment), it is because of comments like this.

Dani: Take your time. Those of us that appreciate your work will all agree that you can take as much time as you like.

[CrazedImp]

Yes i agree... theres no need to be so impatient. Not everything (especially things like this) can be done quickly, and since Dani works on so many other things of course work will go slow.

It's nice that you have an opinion Mad Max, but could you please try and keep harsh comments to yourself? I dont mean to sound harsh myself but you know, comments such as that really do make people lose interest in things, and the JDRP is one of the last things we'd want to see discontinued, especially with some of the stuff we have already seen so far.

Keep up with the good work Dani... i dont mind how long we have to wait to see new stuff, just as long as you dont lose your drive for making it.

[Jimbo.Jack]

I'm not sure yet what will happen with the ModelYard since I can't use PHP on that domain...

why don't you get the model yard redirecting to the jdrp site?

Madmax if you wanna piss people off go do it in the rants and raves forum

[DaniJ]

First and foremost I have not lost any drive for working on jDRP. If anything I am more commited to it now than ever but lets look at the facts:

When I first came back to the Doom community I had plenty of spare time. I didn't know how to model and Cheb was in charge of the project doing all the modeling work. My skills were somewhat limited and I could only skin in one style (which wasn't particularly in-tune with the style ID used for Doom now that I look back) so it took me very little time to release a skin. Cheb then had to leave the community so I volunteered to take the reigns. At that time I didn't even know how to model so I set about learning the skills, learning Doomsday etc etc. Six months down the line I had taught myself most of what I would need to know but I was very inexperienced and hadn't ever worked on a project anywhere near the scale of jDRP. So I began getting myself and the project configured so that I could work comfortably on it. Which I think I've now achieved but it has taken me a long time to do so.

Back when I started the work I was doing was nowhere near the standard of the work I'm doing now. Humbly I like to think that the work I'm doing now is almost commercial standard but it has taken me a long time to learn these skills.

Unfortunetly the current situation is that I don't have anywhere near as much free time as I used to (what with work and Real Life commitments).

A very real problem for jDRP is that I am not good at animation. I don't have the time to learn either so it has always been a barrier that has prevented getting work released sooner since I get to the animation stage and then have to stop or end up taking much longer to get it completed.

jDRP now contains much more than models (detail textures, GUI patches, shiny surfaces etc etc) so this all takes time to produce.

As mentioned I have also began working on the coding side of things as I have always been interested in coding but untill recently my coding skills were mostly forgotten and wildly out of date so once again I set about teaching myself those skills again. So I started the SCUDD project to bring myself up to speed in those areas (another project that I don't have the time I would like to work on). So now I'm also spending some of my time working on Doomsday and the game dlls, the first fruits of this work you will see in the upcoming 1.8.7 release which Skyjake and myself are preparing atm (hence why work on jDRP has slowed to a crawl recently). This is another factor in the slowed development of jDRP as I am spending a fair amount of time reading the source code and learning how everything fits together (this has inadvertantly helped the jDRP in more ways than one. For instance I now have a much better understanding of how Doomsday works underneath so I can optimize jDRP much better than before as I know what/where the real limitations and bottlenecks are).

However I can understand your POV in that in a year of development jDRP has seen arguably little progress. And from looking at what has been released I agree with you up to a point. The fact is that the majority of the work I have done is yet to be released and is sat on my HD waiting to be completed.

I started the ALPHA phase to try to address the fact that I have little time to work on it thinking that if I released WIP versions of stuff that I was working on it would allow people to see that things were happening and allow people to see what the future will hold. It kind of backfired in someways but meh.

Anyway...

I am still very much commited to the project as it's something I love working on but atm I simply don't have the time for jDRP for the above reasons. Once 1.8.7 is released I plan to switch back to working on jDRP for a while so you will see a lot more rapid progress again.

As for procrastinating I plead guilty as charged but it is not my intent to do so. With that in mind feel free to take this post with a pinch of salt if that is your opinion but as I have said many times before in the past I do NOT have the time to work on a large mod project, I do what I can when I can.

On top of my own projects I also help others on theres (for example I am creating the WolfTC.dll but that should only take a week to do) and I spend a fair bit of time working on other things to help the Doomsday community (eg writing stuff for the DEW).

I can confirm that the jDRP 1.1 site doesn't work properly in Opera.Unfortunetly I can't see the situation changing anytime soon since I don't have the time. It works in Mozilla and IE so for the mean time if possible I would suggest to use those.
why don't you get the model yard redirecting to the jdrp site?
I might do that but for the moment TheModelYard should still be considered the projects home. There is talk (between Skyjake and myself) that Doomsday's home on the net might be changing, so atm I don't know what the future will hold.

Now I have to disappear for a few hours as I have to create the artwork for four, 4 foot tall graphic panels for an exhibition. I'll be back latter on tonight with the screens I promised.

[Mad Max RW]

My point is that even after the last discussion (from I don't how long ago) about stopping with the predicted release dates and just doing things at your own pace has all gone down the toilet. Just say "when it's done" for now on. I'm begging you.

And I'm not the problem here. The problem is I'm the only one with balls to speak up.

Technomancer, it's funny you use rebuilding classic cars as an example. I used to do that as a living alongside school. Being under a dark, dirty, rusting machine, covered in oil and other horrible stuff, putting stuff together and taking it apart for hours. Then the boss comes over and makes you do it 5 more times before the day is over. The pressure was always on, and you know what I did? Worked harder. The fruits of my labor paid off. Sitting in my garage right now is a mint condition 69 Camaro.

[LK873]

So you own a nice car? Big deal. It seems to me you have failed to understand why the work itself has slowed down in the last year. The reason he made the Alpha site was to show he still works on the project and is still devoted to it. And to get rid of release dates and all that kinda stuff. I mean, 1.8.7 was supposed to be released in March! Now I know it's most likely the end of this month. I don't rely on release dates much anymore.

[DistantJ]

Oh man, are people pressuring Dani now? Geez you guys you're getting this amazing sourceport for free, and all these modelpacks, for entirely free. And you complain about a bit of waiting.

I do agree that perhaps just a "when it's finished, I'll put it up" idea is better than setting a deadline for this,

[Chilvence]

How come I never get this sort of attention? I hardly do anything around here *grin*

[FreeLanZer]

Well Chilvence you can at least get my attention by helping me... ;)
PM me if you would help... :)

And Dani... Come on... I can't take that long just to make a simple screenshot or even shoter time to make a ported screenshot of a model...!

Like this one:
http://home.no/fragagib/jdrpprev/Head2.png

BTW: This Model looks about finish to me... could you please release it as it is ...? like you've done with some of the other 1.1 models...

[DaniJ]

I'm working. I said I'll post some screens latter and I will.

Ok then. From now on when it's done is the offical release date.

Head on Pole: I'll release it in the next batch yes.

[LK873]

Hooray for Dani!

[Cain]

...Where is the respect...

-Dani working hard for the community ( making the JDRP, coding, texturing, skining, tweaking, testing, helping some people here )... and never does not ask anything in return... ( *thumbs* )

-Who here can say : "Hey Dani, i go to help you, i can making models with same quality of your models..." ( *book* )

-Well... i thing all peapole can he owes a minimum of respect and for this reason must have patience without putting pressure...

[FreeLanZer]

Yeah I really respect you Dani...;)
But a simple thing as a screenshot ain't pressure...

[LK873]

There's a difference between asking and pressuring.

Asking would be what he's doing
"Dani, can we have a screenshot sometime?"
Pressuring would be more like
"WTF there hasn't been screenshots in like 2 months WE WANT SCREENSHOTS NOW!!!!!!!!!!"

[Lightning Hunter]

There's a difference between asking and pressuring.

Asking would be what he's doing
"Dani, can we have a screenshot sometime?"
Pressuring would be more like
"WTF there hasn't been screenshots in like 2 months WE WANT SCREENSHOTS NOW!!!!!!!!!!"

However, asking repeatedly kind of is pressuring, and that’s what FreeLanZer seems to be doing. Just ask once, and if Dani doesn't do it, then go play some Jdoom instead. :-P

[DistantJ]

And realise that, unlike some people here, he has this thing some of us humans like to call "a life".

[LK873]

Yes, this too is true. However, my life is on hold because I'm skipping a majority of this weeks school. :P

[Lightning Hunter]

And realise that, unlike some people here, he has this thing some of us humans like to call "a life".

This will only trigger a flame war, with people here saying that they have a life too. Just drop the arguing now and let the thread go back on topic.

[LK873]

On topic it is!
Dani, when I get home later this week (Thursday, presumably) I'll be more then happy to help out with shinifying textures and things of the like.

So what's the current plan with the pack, now that it's deviating from just models. Are you gonna go the whole nine yards and try to create shines for all the textures, are you gonna try and create hi-res patches for everything? etc.

[Lord Kaizen]

I'd know I'd be pissed if I was working on a project in my spare time and people kept bitching at me when It's going to be done. These alpha updates every once in a while are good enough to keep me satisfied. Dani, do you forsee that you may have more free time this summer?

Anyway....

I finally got around to checking out the updates. :)

Changes I noticed:
New menu skull, Doom title screen and credit screen - very nice
Ammo box and small cell - these look different, have they been changed since last update?
New caco lightning ball - ah...SWEET!!
Thorny thing - looks finished to me
Flooting lava chunk with skulls - looks like you decided to go a different direction with the skin
Computer map - vent on the side was replaced by a cpu fan
Arachnotron shot - the impact effect is 3D now...swanky!
New Commander Keen - this got me thinking... Giving the Wolf SS guys a more realistic model would be defeating the purpose of them looking like they came right out of Wolf 3D (same deal with the high-res Wolf textures). I think it would be better that they get a 3D model that looks really cartoonish like the original, or just a highres sprite with the same pixalated look as Commander Keen and maybe visable damage.

[FreeLanZer]

Ok Just whack me...! I'm sorry I was such an idiot in your eyes...
Maybe it's because I've done 278 textures in no time for our Wolfenstein for Doomsday TC... ?
Anyway I'll leave you alone and wish for some screenshots...

[Chilvence]

heh, it seems my joke fell flat on its face...

[Lightning Hunter]

heh, it seems my joke fell flat on its face...

lol, I think people are too worked up to notice it right now. :P

[hurleybird]

I would rather have an awesome model pack that takes three years to make than a shitty one released relativley shortly. I think dani is on the right track. I mean, look at how many awesome imp models he's scrapped because he knew he could do better, thats the kind of perfectionism (sp?) that I like.

[DaniJ]

heh, it seems my joke fell flat on its face...Heh. I ignored the post for shits n' giggles :)

ATM I'm finishing adding game status cvars (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=797737&group_id=74815&atid=542102) to jDoom/jHeretic/jHexen. For example you can now use console commands like this:
if player-health < 10 msg "better find some health fast!"

Once they are all implemented I'll go take some screenshots.

[DistantJ]

Wow what a great idea!

Is it possible to change the amount of messages displayed at once? like 1 instead of 4?

[DaniJ]

http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/pics/saw.jpg
http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/pics/skulls.jpg
http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/pics/dearch.jpg
http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/pics/bits.jpg
Is it possible to change the amount of messages displayed at once? like 1 instead of 4?That is already in jDoom (but not jHeretic or jHexen.
msg-count - in the console can be used to set the number of messages.

However I've updated the msg code for the other two games for 1.8.7 so all the games use jDoom's msg code (which means you get all the features like a message cache and multiple msgs can be displayed at once) and added an option for left/center/right msg alignment.

[Chilvence]

You are crazy good at doing that gory slimy sort of stuff

[Lightning Hunter]

You are crazy good at doing that gory slimy sort of stuff

Yeah, that’s not an understatement either. That floating skull is just crazy! :O

Your Gore/slime/hellish skins almost look similar to Doom 3 actually. And that’s not a bad thing. :)

[xZAOx]

Mmmmm...tasty!!

[CrazedImp]

OOOOhhhh the arachnotron looks niiice.... and floting skull is, wow.
Now that i've seen some of that gory stuff i cant imagine what you'll do with the new gore FX.

[sirsinalot]

haha, I just figured out what the checkered model is, the leg looks weird unskinned, but I'm sure it will kick ass when it's done, like all of your other models and gore stuff. Also, it would be cool if the leg had some drops of blood dripping from the bottom, possibly by means of particle effects.

[FreeLanZer]

Now that's the spirit Dani :D (party) ...
These models are in level with Half-Life² and Doom³ *jawdrop* !!!
Now look how the thread lived up again ;)...
Wow... I could look at these screenshots for hours... *thumbs*

[Lightning Hunter]

haha, I just figured out what the checkered model is, the leg looks weird unskinned

I was thinking it looked more like a hand puppet :P

[CrazedImp]

It won't once the skin gets put on

[Relica Religia]

OH GOD YES.

Dani, I love how you're so proficient with slimy, shiny gore, but still have the skills to make a model of a chainsaw looks unbelievably lifelike.

It takes time to make good things come to fruition. Sure, you could release a bunch of jumbled crap in between, but why not skip the middle man.

My God. *bow*

[Lightning Hunter]

It won't once the skin gets put on

Really? I thought those checkers were the permanent skin... *whatever*

:P

[Romanov77]

Dani, cant wait to see you working on Heretic/Hexen!!! *l7*

[LK873]

I think he's only going to be doing Doom models.

I'll leave him to answer that though.

[Romanov77]

Well, the Doom RP already rocks...after a couple of releases I think it will be so good that would be impossible to do better...

Instead, Hexen and Heretic still require models, skies....

[Harry]

All those models look abseloutely amazing :D especially the chainsaw and floating skulls, I think that leg model could use a few more polys on the foot, surely it cant hurt to make it slightly more rounded..but i suppose the awesomeness of the skin will cover it up :D
I like the way you're going with that new demon also :)

[DistantJ]

This is going to be the final step to making jDooM perfect. I love how 'accurate' these ones are, Dani.

What I mean by that is, it's exactly how you'd imagine the models to look if the original DooM was made today. Wonderful stuff. This coupled with the texture pack, environment pack, ambiance pack and my upcoming "Sounds of DooM" (non copyright infringing) soundpack (which I may see if I am allowed to call the jDSP so it can be official), will be just incredible!

[Lightning Hunter]

Well, the Doom RP already rocks...after a couple of releases I think it will be so good that would be impossible to do better...

Instead, Hexen and Heretic still require models, skies....

Um.. . I don't know about you, but I don't want a few models here and there that look like Dani's Floating skull pictured above mixed with the old models. The last thing I want is a game full of models that have different qualities and styles. They wouldn't fit together at all! Nope, I think Dani has many updates to do before he’s done. *shades*

[Lord Kaizen]

Terrific stuff! :)

Will the skin of the floating skulls be animated like the sprite?

[xZAOx]

I think, after all the resource packs (models/textures/etc) get finished, the last step in recreating Doom would be to actually start recreating the wads. Keeping the levels effectively exactly the same in terms of overall layout, item/baddie/doors/secrets/etc placement, but just adding more detail to the rooms as needed (kinda like Boingo is doing with the Chex Quest wads).

But that'd be somewhere down the line I imagine. Until then, I can't wait till all the new things jDoom is doing these days is fully taken advantage of with these model and texture packs! It's gonna kick some ass.

-Rob

[DistantJ]

I realise the Demon is a WIP, but I'd like to suggest making the eyebrows more chunky and sticky-outy - to make him seem more angry, and the edges of the mouth to be down a little more to look a little meaner - as it looks kind of like it's smiling at the moment.

[sirsinalot]

Terrific stuff!

Will the skin of the floating skulls be animated like the sprite?
It doesn't need to be animated, the shiny texture on it gives the same illusion as the sprite had.

[Lord Kaizen]

Oh, but I thoght it was supposed to look as if it was on fire.

[DaniJ]

Yes the skin will be animated.

What I have in mind is some sort of magneus (sp?) rock with a magma center (sounds like a chocolate) impregnated with quartz (as you can see by the lower half of the work done on existing texture so far) which refracts the light giving the vague impression of being on fire.

I will only suspend reality up to a point with jDRP as I do want everything to look believable but the outlandish designs and often completely abstract styles add so much to Doom's classic style. Retaining that style is far more important to me than making something 100% realistic. Realisticaly styled FPS are a dime a dozen and doing that to Doom is tantamount to defacing a work of art IMO.

[DistantJ]

Well said.

Anyways the thing was animated so it looked like it was the lava that's underneath it shining on it - hence why it was usually above lava.

[Lightning Hunter]

I think, after all the resource packs (models/textures/etc) get finished, the last step in recreating Doom would be to actually start recreating the wads.

-Rob

Now that's something I can do well! Maybe I could go through and add more detail to each level in Doom 2 while keeping the same feel and themes to them. I've also always wanted to go through and make the original Doom2 levels harder for Ultra Violence (more monsters, more traps, etc.. Maybe I could do both of these things. :D

If anyone else thinks this is a good idea and would like to see it, let me know through PM or something and maybe I can start a project to add detail into the original doom levels.

I have a small photo album of previous levels I've done in the past here:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/l_hunter8/
All of the levels shown were being made for a 32 level megawad that I never got around to finishing (I might still finish it someday). The name of it was originally Hell's Curse. Note that these levels are slightly older, so I can do much better work than that now.

I don't think that releasing the Doom 2 levels updated in a PWAD is illegal, as long as I don't include the graphics, sounds or anything else but the levels. This would also make the finished file size smaller (maybe like 5-10MB max), since it wouldn’t have to contain everything in the Doom 2 WAD.

[DaniJ]

I don't think that releasing the Doom 2 levels updated in a PWAD is illegal, as long as I don't include the graphics, sounds or anything else but the levels. This would also make the finished file size smaller (maybe like 5-10MB max), since it wouldn’t have to contain everything in the Doom 2 WAD.Nope it still wouldn't be legal. Perhaps if you started from scratch WITHOUT using the originals doing a side-by-side reference and instead going from memory it might be legal but I still wouldn't bank on it. In truth I don't know.

[Lightning Hunter]

Nope it still wouldn't be legal. Perhaps if you started from scratch WITHOUT using the originals doing a side-by-side reference and instead going from memory it might be legal but I still wouldn't bank on it. In truth I don't know.

I thought it wasn't illegal... About a year ago, Slyrr talked about him and Skyjake planning to add some new monsters to Heretic. I offered to go through and manually place the new monsters into the Heretic levels if they did it. Slyrr said he later found out that it would be fine to release it as long as we only contain the levels in the PWAD and nothing else. Now that I think about it though, that is Raven Games and not ID Software, so I'm not sure if ID Software would say the same. Where could I look to figure this out?

Edit: What would be illegal about it anyway? If I released updated versions of just the levels themselves, then people still have to own a copy of Doom 2 in order to use them.

[SMB]

I belive iD's position is if you reqire the IWAD, you're fine. As soon as you don't (or make it trivial to do so) they will call the attack laywers on all of this 'derivitive' work (j?RP, j?TP, any resource update) that is, normally, illegal to do, doesn't matter if you did it off the original, drew over it, or just from memory. All this is from memory, though, so take it with a grain of salt. Check iD's site...

[DaniJ]

If I released updated versions of just the levels themselves, then people still have to own a copy of Doom 2 in order to use them.Thats not the point, AFAIK the levels are copyrighted as well but hey I dunno for sure.

[draconx]

Nope you are technically not allowed to remake the level in such a way. One level, nobody is going to care. 32 levels, and you're going to have a problem. What you CAN do however, would be some sort of wad patch program which updates the iWad with the changes. The program would have to run entirely off a list of changes, comparing changes to the wad file itself and updating as necessary. Just "checking if iwad is proper" and then just writing the entire changed iwad stored in the exe is still NOT legal.

[Lightning Hunter]

Nope you are technically not allowed to remake the level in such a way. One level, nobody is going to care. 32 levels, and you're going to have a problem. What you CAN do however, would be some sort of wad patch program which updates the iWad with the changes. The program would have to run entirely off a list of changes, comparing changes to the wad file itself and updating as necessary. Just "checking if iwad is proper" and then just writing the entire changed iwad stored in the exe is still NOT legal.

I've heard of that solution before, and it's never made any sense to me. What is the difference between an exe patch that updates your levels and a PWAD that updates your levels? Both end up with the same results. Either way, the main IWAD is still required... It's not like I'm going to release the levels and claim them as my own original work. I might e-mail ID Software on this issue soon, but I don't know what I'd ask them. I hate e-mailing official game companies, because they rarely respond (at least to my questions they don't). Anyone have any ideas?

[DistantJ]

Perhaps if you were to merge the pWAD with the iWAD with WinTex, to make a new iWAD, and then created a patch using ClickTeam Patch Maker.

Lightning Hunter - I think it may be due to the fact that with a pWAD alone, it could be possible to run it on Final DooM - therefore having the copyrighted DooM 2 levels without necessarily owning DooM 2. I know it's rare that someone owns Final DooM and not DooM 2 nowadays, but still, it's possible.

Other than that though, I can't see a pWAD doing such a thing as being illegal, as long as it doesn't contain any important graphics or data - just the maps, that way you will have to own the original iWAD in order to be able to play it.

I have had the intention to update the DooM 1 and 2 maps someday myself in order to add colourrooms to the levels to try and match the Playstation version, but I've heard that a future release of Doomsday will allow colourrooms to be done via DED file without any alteration to the WAD, so I'd like to wait for then.

[CrazedImp]

Oooo oooo i love making coloured rooms... i'll help if you want me to!!
And yes i know how to use deds... surprisingly... i cant really do much else apart from mapping...

[DistantJ]

You played PSX DooM? That's how I want it to be really. I want to go so far as to almost create a PSX DooM "TC" someday. Just without the toned-down textures (ya know, when they used a lot of boring textures instead of the cool ones in some levels).

[draconx]

Other than that though, I can't see a pWAD doing such a thing as being illegal, as long as it doesn't contain any important graphics or data - just the maps, that way you will have to own the original iWAD in order to be able to play it.The MAPS are copyright. As are the textures. As are the sounds. ID holds the right to copy these - the term "copy" includes derivative works. It is ILLEGAL to copy these without express written permission from ID.

I've heard of that solution before, and it's never made any sense to me. What is the difference between an exe patch that updates your levels and a PWAD that updates your levels? Both end up with the same results. Either way, the main IWAD is still required... It's not like I'm going to release the levels and claim them as my own original work. I might e-mail ID Software on this issue soon, but I don't know what I'd ask them. I hate e-mailing official game companies, because they rarely respond (at least to my questions they don't). Anyone have any ideas?The reason the PWAD will not work, is the PWAD has the ENTIRE level geometry inside it. You are violating IDs copyright on the levels by distributing this PWAD.

An exe patch program would basically do this: Open the IWAD, start modifying level 1, perform alteration A at coords (X, Y), perform alteration B, etc.

Of course, you could always ask ID if the pwad method would be okay, they may say yes.

[DistantJ]

But you can't play the pWAD without owning the iWAD.

So if that is illegal, then that would make the jDooM texture pack illegal. And the soundtracks. And this jDooM resource pack. Since they also contain the original material and/or recreations of them.

[FATAL]

If you've been around Doom 3 community, you could've seen that id has made no reaction whatsoever to the Doom 2 remake mod. It has almost exactly the same levels, so it would be illegal as you said.

I say go for it!

[DistantJ]

Yep I think people are being too worried. Besides if it is illegal you'll just be asked to take it down, which you'd do. That doesnt' stop you from making it.

[draconx]

So if that is illegal, then that would make the jDooM texture pack illegal. And the soundtracks. And this jDooM resource pack. Since they also contain the original material and/or recreations of them.
Soundtracks do not fall into the category whatsoever, due to the way a MIDI file works. A MIDI file is basically sheet music. The music is then "performed" by something (could be a live orchestra, or a wavetable device). It is then recorded. Take Sycraft's soundtracks for example. They are basically a recording of his performance of the Doom music which he purchased the scores to. And you are legally allowed to record and sell your performances of such sheet music.

The models and textures are different, but still valid. They do not directly contain any of IDs work, only a facsimile of it. If the skin for the model contained any part of the original sprite (no matter HOW filtered it may be), it is technically copying the sprite, for the skin would now be considered a derivative work. The same goes for textures. This distinction is important! This allows you to make your own tetris game (or for that matter any other type of game similar to one made previously)! However, software patents threaten this simple right this very day.

So the pwad method could be implemented, but the new map would have to contain no piece of the original in its construction.

Yep I think people are being too worried. Besides if it is illegal you'll just be asked to take it down, which you'd do. That doesnt' stop you from making it.Do you want to spend years on a project only to be asked to take it down right when you finish it, and never distribute it to anyone again? I sure wouldn't. Always make sure your project does not violate any copyrights before you begin!

[Lightning Hunter]

The reason the PWAD will not work, is the PWAD has the ENTIRE level geometry inside it. You are violating IDs copyright on the levels by distributing this PWAD.

What PWAD? I haven't made anything yet. :P

I'll use the patch method only if I can edit the levels normally using WAD author. Someone else would then have to tell me how to make the changes into a patch. What I won't (and can't) do, is program something myself and write a line of code for each change in the levels.

[SMB]

Dude's: as far as I can remember:
1) ID has copyright on EVERYTHING in doom.
2) ANYTHING that is somewhat similar is a derivitive work. THIS INCLUDES things that were done 'by eye' so on and so forth... which includes Doomsday, models, textures, sounds, music, EVERYTHING.
3) ID wants more moneys from Doom. So they GIVE SPECIFIC RIGHTS to derive from their work, in the same way that the GPL works (still under copyright, but certain rights are conditionally granted) so they can mooch off of community work.
4) ID's stance on those given rights are (as I remember from double-digit months ago) as long as you are still requiring an IWAD, you're fine. So if I were to make a shotgun model for doomsday, that would be fine, but if I used it for my own game, they now have a legal position to take down my work, even though it was entirely my own work.

NOTE: YOU DON'T HAVE COPYRIGHT ON THESE WORKS!
If you have a problem with any of this, I suggest you contact your local government official and ask him to fix copyright law.

[Romanov77]

As if that *cant remember his name* doesnt have enough Ferrari's in his garage...

[Vi3tSkl11]

John Carmack. (You're gonna get shot. Geebus...)

[CrazedImp]

Ahahahahahaha shot.... and the dude probably owns the ferrari company now...

[deepteam]

Soundtracks do not fall into the category whatsoever, due to the way a MIDI file works. A MIDI file is basically sheet music. The music is then "performed" by something (could be a live orchestra, or a wavetable device).
Sort of right and sort of misleading. A MIDI file is first of all not sheet music. The "way a .. file works" has nothing to do with copyright. For example, if you took a DOOM MUS file that originally worked using the MIDI function of a sound card and then recorded it as WAV, you are violating copyright.

This is no different than transforming pictures from a "real" picture to digital or for that matter taking a digital picture and printing it. The original copyright is always intact. IOW, sheet music is actually copyrighted.

Here's a quote (last of 4) used to determine if something is a problem -and that's why a lot of DOOM stuff is just ignored:

4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of the copyrighted work. Criteria used to determine adverse market effect include (a) accessibility of the work, (b) date of its creation or publication, (c) economic life of the work, (d) price, and (e) evidence of abandonment.

Check this out for more info http://www.mpa.org/copyright/you.html#record Check the section "Making a Record: Do I Have To Obtain a Mechanical License? "

Note that recording rights (distributing your work) and sheet rights are directly related to each other.

More info http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sup_01_17_10_10.html
And you are legally allowed to record and sell your performances of such sheet music.
See above.
The models and textures are different, but still valid. They do not directly contain any of IDs work, only a facsimile of it.
Actually ID could sue on the premise of (mind blanking out) something like intellectual concept - there's a better word, but atm can't think of it. That sort of attack has been done. Because of 4 above, you don't see this for DOOM stuff.
So the pwad method could be implemented, but the new map would have to contain no piece of the original in its construction.
Technically correct, but realistically incorrect. ID has not enforced this and as such has most likely lost the right to complain. More importantly, they just don't care. It wouldn't make business sense to make a fuss since their costs would far exceed any monetary loss (if any).

[DistantJ]

Duyde. The designs of the monsters are copyrighted. Therefore the models would be illegal if your claims are true. Creating models of the enemies is exactly the same as creating done up levels. ID aren't gonna do anything anyway, we'd be creating an addon for DooM, not a ripoff of it. Besides, you can't play the pWAD without owning the original iWAD anyway. Yuo're going way too far with specifics, if we're going to be like that, this whole site is basically illegal. If we're going with that way of thinking, the images on this forum are illegal. The top banner with the DooM pictures are illegal. Our sidepics are mostly illegal.

Besides, a majority of the textures in the texture pack do include filters or draw-overs of the original images.

As said in the post above by deepteam, it would apply to things which would stunt the value of the copyrighted material - i.e. if people were to download this stuff instead of buy the original DooM. If anything, our work INCREASES the value of DooM, as it turns the game into something even the gamers of today can play without it looking slightly dated - if people stumble across jDooM it gives them all the more reason to buy the DooM collection even today. In fact, I didn't have a hard copy of all of the DooM games anymore back when I first found jDooM. I just had my old DooM 2 v1.666 which was installed from back when it was still sold on a bunch of floppy discs. Then I went out and bought the DooM collector's edition set with all 3 titles, and also bought as Hexen and Heretic, just because of jDooM and the texture and modelpacks, and I should think that other people probably would do so too, and I'm sure there are others who have done so, all because of all this stuff.

So do you really think ID would come and try and take us down on a stupid little technicality?

[deepteam]

2) ANYTHING that is somewhat similar is a derivitive work. THIS INCLUDES things that were done 'by eye' so on and so forth... which includes Doomsday, models, textures, sounds, music, EVERYTHING.
Not exactly true. In fact, if you copy a painting "by eye", it's perfectly legal - done all the time at sidewalk stuff for tourists. The key is that you did not use some sort of device to make the copy. So you can make up a new texture mimicking the original so long as it isn't a literal copy using a machine. Digital stuff like color altering, smearing, etc do not count. To be safe, it better look quite different since digital stuff is easier to fake vs an original drawing/painting using real canvas and real oils.
4) ID's stance on those given rights are (as I remember from double-digit months ago) as long as you are still requiring an IWAD, you're fine. So if I were to make a shotgun model for doomsday, that would be fine, but if I used it for my own game, they now have a legal position to take down my work, even though it was entirely my own work.
ID will probably never say it's ok (causes other problems for them), but in practice they don't care.

If you make your own shotgun model, they haven't got a leg to stand on. It's YOUR work and you can use it however you see fit. For a start, a model is certainly is dramatically different from a sprite *smirk* For another, they don't have a lock on shotgun images *alienate*

[DistantJ]

Deepteam - the post above has been edited since you posted - please check it.

[DistantJ]

Not exactly true. In fact, if you copy a painting "by eye", it's perfectly legal - done all the time at sidewalk stuff for tourists. The key is that you did not use some sort of device to make the copy. So you can make up a new texture mimicking the original so long as it isn't a literal copy using a machine. Digital stuff like color altering, smearing, etc do not count. To be safe, it better look quite different since digital stuff is easier to fake vs an original drawing/painting using real canvas and real oils.
That depends. If what you say there is true then that means another team could re-create DooM with per pixel accuracy from scratch, and sell it under the title "DooM" without any consent of ID software, and be legal. This is not the case. We are recreating images created originally and copyrighted by ID software, therefore if it wasn't for you needing the iWAD to be able to do anything with them, it would be illegal. The DESIGN is copyrighted, not just the actual creation of it. If one of us went and used these textures and/or models in our own game which we distributed, then yes, that would be illegal. The reason the sheet music thing works differently is mainly because the classical pieces that are commonly recreated and sold as a composer's own version was created back in the day when copyrights weren't really needed, and the great composers did not put such protection on their work. Doing so with a piece written recently would be a different issue as a copyright is put on the actual writing of the song, not just the recording/composition.

[MTKnight]

Unfortunetly I can't see the situation changing anytime soon since I don't have the time. It works in Mozilla and IE so for the mean time if possible I would suggest to use those.
I do. I'd be glad to have a look at it and see what's amiss. I haven't looked at the site in anything other than Opera, so I don't offhand know what's wrong, but I can certainly investigate and tweak.

[Romanov77]

I wonder if anyone on Earth owns a legal WAD ...
(except me of curse ;-), my beloved Collector's edition!)

It takes about 60 secs to dl Doom2. wad... and you can find it anywhere...

[xZAOx]

I think you'd be surprised how many people, in this forum especially, do own legal copies.

-Rob

[FreeLanZer]

We'll actually I own a legal WAD for every Doom game... Because I also own the Doom Collector's Edition.. :D

[SMB]

If you make your own shotgun model, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
I didn't say they would WIN, but they would have a case. I made a model that simulates the appearance of their sprite, I use it in a way that follows with their licence to use Doom ports. I now use this "derivitive" work in another context, and boom! Of course, this is all guessed pseudo-law... EULA "click-wrap" type agreement, no precendent, etc...
Oh yeah, all this digital copying stuff is horse-shit. Copyright was around before computers, you know. Copyright was used (amongst other things) to stop rival theatre companies from ripping off other performances, by people in the audience REMEMBERING the entire play, then writing it down afterwards. (I've heard most of our copys of Shakespeare's plays were from this.) Anyone selling a copy of a classic painting or composition (et al) is fine because most of those works are from about 400 years before copyright, not because they didn't use a camera.
therefore if it wasn't for you needing the iWAD to be able to do anything with them, it would be illegal.
Actually, this is ONLY because iD explicitly said so. (although I still can't find the original doc, iD's site is an endless morass of Doom3 ads!) If I were to make a level for UT that used a texture I modified from the original (angel/demon stained glass, anyone :D), it's still illegal because I made a copy (that was derived from) their work, even if you need UT to actually play the level.
It's nice to know at least a third of you actually read other people's posts first, though :D.
PS: deepteam, about your "no. 4" clause: is this actually legally binding? Has an IP lawsuit been overturned because there was no commercial dammage? That would be AWSOME, if so! But I suspect not... (oh yeah, dont trust anyone that says "The fact that you have in hand a particular piece of printed music is also the result of contributions of a group of people whose work, for the most part, goes uncredited--music retailers and music publishers." - Publishers SUCK! Noone should get 60-80% of the profit just for having money to push struff from factory to store)

[FreeLanZer]

Well why ask Id over to New Doom and have a look a things..?
Then they could judge if this is ok or not...

[draconx]

Not exactly true. In fact, if you copy a painting "by eye", it's perfectly legal - done all the time at sidewalk stuff for tourists. The key is that you did not use some sort of device to make the copy. So you can make up a new texture mimicking the original so long as it isn't a literal copy using a machine. Digital stuff like color altering, smearing, etc do not count. To be safe, it better look quite different since digital stuff is easier to fake vs an original drawing/painting using real canvas and real oils.Thats what I was trying to say with the models and textures.

A MIDI file is first of all not sheet music.Except that is precisely what a MIDI file is - a set of instructions on how to perform a piece of music. Although I guess I was mistaken with the rules for recording.. I always thought I could record/perform the pieces from my conservatory book as I pleased (referring of course to the pieces in which the copyright has not yet expired :P).

[DaniJ]

If one of us went and used these textures and/or models in our own game which we distributed, then yes, that would be illegal.Wrong. That would be 100% legal as long as the "copy by eye" method was imployed during the creation of all resources and the demons were named differently. Obviously though you couldn't call it Doom as that IS a trademark (NOT a copyright! there is a big difference).

I happen to know a LOT about this kinda stuff since I work as a graphic designer for a living.

The jDRP 1.1 is 100% legal since EVERYTHING in it has been created from scratch by hand and eye. The only possible legal grey area is as Deep said: "intellectual copyright" and that would only apply in jDRP's case because the modules bare the trademark'd names of some of the monsters.

Its the same reason why I can draw a picture of a cartoon mouse wearing red shorts with white buttons, put it on a T-Shirt and sell it. If I put "Mickey" on it I could probably get away with it if I had a decent lawyer (since "Taking the mickey" is a common phrase in the UK) but if I wrote "Mickey Mouse" on said T-Shirt, and proceeded to sell it I'd be in BIG trouble.

[DistantJ]

Well I've seen cases where people have been taken to court for ripping off a design - and that doesn't involve using any of the original material.

I just finished a 2 year course in Graphic Design myself... And I'm sure laws for just graphic imaging are different for the laws of moving pictures like a movie or a game...

I'm not trying to imply that the jDRP is illegal - I'm just trying to say that whoever started all this techincal crap about pWADs is wasting their time.

[Mad Max RW]

Some of you guys are out of your minds. You realize how many Doom 1/2 remakes there are for Doom 3? Or how many were already made for the originals in the last decade? None of them have been ordered to stop. I'm pretty sure the Demongate expansion had a few dozen. There's also a Doom1->Doom2 port containing the entire Doom1 singleplayer floating around from years ago.

If you're going to remake or copy something of id's and keep it on an id product, there's NOTHING to worry about.

[FreeLanZer]

Let's stop this crap now... This Copyright-stuff is getting on my nerves...! :S

[DaniJ]

I'm not trying to imply that the jDRP is illegal - I'm just trying to say that whoever started all this techincal crap about pWADs is wasting their time.
I know you weren't but considering this is the jDRP thread and not the "legalities of derived work in game mods" thread, I thought it would be a good idea to make that statement to declare jDRP's position.

It was also an attempt to get back on topic ;)

/takes mod hat off

[Lightning Hunter]

Great, look what I started...

I think I'm just going to drop the idea of improving the levels, because all this nonsense isn't worth the trouble. Unless someone finds out what ID Software’s stand on this issue is (and I'm not talking about guesses, it has to be 100% sure), then I'm not going to do anything. I don't think anyone really gives a crap about me improving the levels anyway, so lets just get back on the topic of Dani's JDRP now.

[Romanov77]

Legal or not legal, the JDRP rocks.

[SMB]

Maybe UK laws? Im pretty sure that would be pretty dangerous in the US (I don't live there, thank god, but our laws can sometimes be as bad... (NZ for anyone who cares))
Of course, everything I know is hearsay, so you are probably right...

[DistantJ]

Great, look what I started...

I think I'm just going to drop the idea of improving the levels, because all this nonsense isn't worth the trouble. Unless someone finds out what ID Software’s stand on this issue is (and I'm not talking about guesses, it has to be 100% sure), then I'm not going to do anything. I don't think anyone really gives a crap about me improving the levels anyway, so lets just get back on the topic of Dani's JDRP now.

Nah you didn't start it, it's whoever pointlessly started all this legal mumbo jumbo. This is just a bit of fan-made fun - a hobby, we ain't professionals, so we shouldn't be worrying about all this stuff. I mean the people who put Beavis and Butthead sounds into DooM didn't have to go and clear everything with MTV, and the people behind Sonic DooM didn't have to go and consult Sega. Nor did those behind Simpsons DooM go and contact fox.

There's also a Doom1->Doom2 port containing the entire Doom1 singleplayer floating around from years ago.
Where is this WAD? I want it!

[Jimbo.Jack]

SMB: I care. I from there too.

Dani: have you checked your email? I would like a bit of help before continuing.

[Technomancer]

I have only one comment on the legality of recreating the Doom levels and that is that since the shareware was a free version, you could release those levels without risk of legal action. That limits you to the first episode of Doom 1 though :( One of the Doom 3 mods I follow has been doing that to avoid legal issues.

Those models are awesome by the way!, I especially liked the floating skulls! *thumbs*

[DistantJ]

Yeah Classic DooM for DooM 3 right? As soon as I get my new memory module so I can play DooM 3 that's the first thing I'm getting. After having played DooM 3 thoroughly of course. Where's this DooM 1 remake for DooM 2 I keep hearing of?

[mrsabidji]

I don't think it exists. Besides, there would be no point in it, since both DooM1 and DooM2 use the same game engine (and the .exe is the same, just with a different name). The only things that change are the levels, some monsters/textures/sounds and the color palette.
Actually, if you replace DooM2's WAD file with DooM1's, it automagically transforms into the original DooM game.

[SMB]

You're forgetting the double shotty, man! Not to mention the different menu (no Episodes) etc...
I'm sure others can list a freakishly large set of differences (are you sure you dont mean jDoom?)

[mrsabidji]

Yes, I am. I forgot to mention the double cannon shotgun, indeed. And also some other stuff I suppose, which are of no importance since they're all part of the doom2.wad file. I did experiment a lot with doom and doom2, back in the 386/486 era and I can assure you than from version 1.666*, doom.exe and doom2.exe are exactly the same file. You can check for yourself if you still have a puter running DOS somewhere.

*: the reason being that, IIRC, DooM2 was released with the version 1.666 of the .exe

[DistantJ]

I wanna be able to move a DooM 2 pWAD map to DooM 1 somehow but it doesn't seem to wanna work. Keeps asking for something called "AASHITTY". I thought that if I removed all the DooM 2 stuff it'd work, considering what you mentioned there.

[DaniJ]

In order to convert a Doom2 pwad to Doom you need to do the following:

Remove any THINGS that only appear in Doom2 (eg archviles, double shotty)
Change any textures/flats only found in Doom2 to what you want as long as they are in Doom
Change the map name identifier on the map lump eg (MAP01 to E1M1)

[DistantJ]

I think it's the first two I'm not getting right. It just keeps asking me for "AASHITTY". Which I believe was a texture never used in DooM 2 but did appear in the WAD, right?

[CrazedImp]

Yes it did appear in the wad, not sure if anybody really knows why... gets annoying for me too sometimes if i wanna convert D2 to D1.

[FreeLanZer]

AASHITTY appears in the wad because Id had a problem with the textures in the wad file... Doom wouldn't load the first texture correct so they made this AASHITTY to fill the space for the first texture which isn't used... But the texture is also used in the texture with another name... ;) So it doesn't really matter whats on the texture of AASHITTY.. :)

[Besli]

Freelanzer, you are working on Wolfenstein for Doomsday!?
It looks really good!! Thank you for doing this!! *bow*

[FreeLanZer]

Yeah I'm part of the project..;)
I've made 281 textures and flats for it now and that means that I am the primary texture artist on the team... But I'm not finished yet.. :D
Thanx for the feedback Besli.. :)

Anyway, if you guys wanna see the screenshots from the project... visit my website below.. ;)

[DaniJ]

http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/jDRPAlpha/pics/HUDRocket.jpg
Still missing a lot of detail on this like scratches, smoke staining etc. It's now hollow so that you can see the rocket pass through the chamber when firing and so that it looks more solid when slinging it over your shoulder when changing weapon.

It's based on the model used in 1.01. Allthough I've added more polys to the model for more detail I've managed to remove more than I've added so in actual fact this version of the model actualy has a lower poly count than the 1.0.1 version. I've redone the UVW's as well and achieved a much better pixel density this time round (I've increased the pixel usage so that the skin is now achieving 50% higher resolution). Add to that the new skin is 1024x1024 the new rocket launcher is approx 600% higher resolution.

[Skitso]

Perfect as usual. :) You are just too good.

[FreeLanZer]

WOW!!! This is awesome..!! and yes you are ALWAYS great there has never been anything that I disliked..!

[DistantJ]

Kicking ass, Dani. Anymore work on the monster models? Those are the ones I'm most excited about.

[FreeLanZer]

Yeah me to... :D
Actually I think I'm gonna shit in my pants when you show the Cyberdemon finished...!
But I've only seen glimps of the Imp and I would really like to see some bigger ported screenshots of it...
Well maybe also other things and beings...

[Jimbo.Jack]

I heard that the mosters were going to be done in 1.2

dani: if you texture well enough round the new hole you made. you should be able to hide the polygonal shape of it.

[Lord Kaizen]

The scorched metal is a lovely touch, me thinks. :D

[SMB]

Whoop! Whoop! The jDRP will live forever!
If you're worried about the polygonal hole, you could also try making it use more segments horizontally than verticaly, as it will be hard to see vertical detail at that angle. Oh yeah, I think at some point you may have to decide whether you want players to upgrade their computers ;)
Very minor note: I prefer more self shadowing, esp. with area shadows. Those side fins seem a little light. (But, of course, your work still redefines how kick-ass md2 models can look!)
Nice work with the back-lighting and scorch-marks, though.

[DaniJ]

Thanks guys (gals too?)

The side fins are light because there is a shiny texture to go on top which will drastically darken them.

The hole is indeed skinned so you can't notice the polygonal nature of it but it only works when the model is rendered from the player's perspective.

Yeah it is still lacking some shadows, work continues...

[DistantJ]

How're the monsters coming? And any work on the shotgun?

[FreeLanZer]

Uhm Dani did you notice, when you made the skin for the four shotgun shells, that they already were fired..?

[DaniJ]

What makes you say that?

[FreeLanZer]

Well I don't really know ... *ugh* .. I just noticed it...

[DaniJ]

I totally don't see what you mean. The rounds are still inside the cases.

If you mean the skin on the HUD model shotgun rounds i know about it and will fix it when I find some reference pics of spent rounds.

[Lord Kaizen]

Shotgun pellets are inside the shells, not attached to the end like a regular bullet.

[FreeLanZer]

Ok I'll try to explain it again the 3d model for the 4 shotgunshells, is already fired.
Like this one is not fired: http://www.cigarit.com/images/categories/hum01.jpg
and this one is: I can't find a picture of a fired one... sorry. But when fired, the centre dot in the bottom is push in, and the top of the shell is opened.

You really don't have to do this Dani... It's just because I noticed it... ;)

[Ton80]

To Dani
Fired shells ref pics link (http://sporting-goods.listings.ebay.ca/Reloading-Equipment_Shells-Hulls_W0QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ71121QQsocmdZListi ngItemList) Strange on what one can find on eBay.

I now notice what Freelanzer is talking about. They do look a bit strange with apparent fired primers up close but it isn't a big thing. Something to do when you are bored. ;)

[FreeLanZer]

Yes .. exactly... Hmmm still waiting on more progress info...

[DaniJ]

Sorry I still don't see what the problem is with the 4 shells item model. You'll have to point it out.
http://www.daniel.ddsdesign.co.uk/Stuff/Shells.jpg
That is the current skin for the shells.

[FreeLanZer]

Ok first question: Do you know how a shotgun shell looks like when has been fired...?

Here is my explanation as an image: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/freelanzer/Doomsday.jpg

And also whet is the progress of jDRP...?

[DaniJ]

What is the difference??? If you mean the pin in the middle then look at the skin, its exactly the same as your not fired example above.

No, I have no idea even what the difference is. I've never even seen a shotgun (or any gun for that matter) in real life.

As I've said before, there has been and will be no progress on jDRP till the next version of Doomsday is released.

[Relica Religia]

What everyone basically means is that the current "4 shells" ammo pickups have pushed in brass centers - or simply appear to - which in real life would mean they have already been fired and are simply spent casings. If you lightened up the brass centers on the tops of the "4 shells", then they would look like fresh, unfired shells.

I honestly didn't even notice that until I read these last few posts.

[Cain]

You mean something like that ...?

http://cainx.free.fr/Img/bullet.jpg

[DaniJ]

Thanks for the explanation. I'll fix both the item skin (lightened center) and the fired shells skin (as per Cain's helpful pic above) in the next update.

Cheers for the heads up, else I wouldn't have known differently.

[FreeLanZer]

I'm sorry I couldn't explain it good enough ... but then it's good that the other guys could :D

Oh boy... I can't wait for 1.8.7 could you mention only one thing about that you think will be the best function...?

[DaniJ]

Oh boy... I can't wait for 1.8.7 could you mention only one thing about that you think will be the best function...?
BIAS lighting, BIAS shadowing, in-game BIAS light editor ;)

[Da_maniaC]

Hey guys.

(/me pops in for a look again since 4 weeks) :p

Nice progress you have made Dani.

I just downloaded the 37 MB package and am about to try it.

As ppl have said before, nice job so far! :)

And i cant wait to see 1.8.7. ;)

[FreeLanZer]

Yeah everybody is talking about BIAS lighting, but what does it look like does anybody have a screenshot of a game using that...?

[Lord Kaizen]

Here ya go :D :

http://img267.echo.cx/img267/5575/bias25vr.jpg
http://img267.echo.cx/img267/7079/bias13xp.jpg

[Relica Religia]

Think of it as GL smoothing for sector-to-sector brightness levels. *wacky*

[SMB]

Yeah, theres a REASON he hasen't released 1.8.7 :P
It's (sorta) in there now, type rend-bias 1 or something to that effect, and a couple others.
I'm sure a CVS pull would get a MUCH better working version, but I trust Dani to figure out what
to do with it...

[FreeLanZer]

Thanx for the pics Lord Kaizen..;)
This looks great.. Now I really can't wait.. *crazy* !!!

Now lets get back on topic...

Hey guy have a look at the Doom sprites in real life figures:
http://www.gothtech.com/SoL/DOOM.htm
Maybe it could be used as reference for the jDRP 1.1 ...? *smirk*

[Lord Kaizen]

....And here are the original models that were used to create the sprites.
These were posted here before, but I enjoy pimping them. :D

http://img132.echo.cx/img132/6673/spidermanc23jb.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/5678/spidermanc9zb.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/1475/revenent0dc.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/4411/revbaron7rx.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/8479/mastermind2mo.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/3466/mancubus1kg.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/2280/doomguy3gd.jpg
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/9061/archvile1ca.jpg

[micko]

HI guys i don't post often but anyway

a couple of weeks ago my computer crashed and i had to reinstall everything, i was wondering if i should get 1.0.1 or wait for 1.1 if its not far from release,
and i can't be bothered going through the entire forums looking for a release date
so if anyone knows the release date could they post it here

Cheers Micko aka duckattack aka the attack duck aka donkey shlong

[Canassa]

HI guys i don't post often but anyway

a couple of weeks ago my computer crashed and i had to reinstall everything, i was wondering if i should get 1.0.1 or wait for 1.1 if its not far from release,
and i can't be bothered going through the entire forums looking for a release date
so if anyone knows the release date could they post it here

Cheers Micko aka duckattack aka the attack duck aka donkey shlong

As far as I know there is no release date for the jDRP 1.1, it could take a day, a month or a year. So I think you should just get the 1.0.1 while Dani is working in the 1.1.

[DistantJ]

Yeah it'd be cool to see the shotgun cartridges with the pin in, and the fired ones with the busted end. though it wouldn't look exactly how Cain drew it, not quite that perfectly squared, heh.

I own a 44 shotgun y'see and have been shooting and such (I'm British =P) so yah. The reason for the pin (called a primer), Dani, is because it contains a lot of gun powder in the bottom end (where the brass 'head' is), sealed off with a bit of plastic, called a 'wad', to separate it from the projectile, which is usually lots of tiny pellets of lead, but can sometimes be other stuff, like a single projectile called a 'slug' for instance, though I'd say the DooM shotgun was the pellets due to the fact that the shot scatters and covers a wide area. There can be a few wads, and there's usually one on the other end too, they all keep the pellets together whilst travelling up the barrel. The pin (primer) in the back is there to literally ignite the gun powder. It contains stuff which explodes when given a whack by the firing pin(inside the gun), igniting the gun powder, the force causing the wad to shoot outwards, pulling the rest of the contents of the cartridge with it, holding them together until they're blasted out of the barrel. This causes the end of the cartridge to be busted open which is why you see the ugly mashed up end on Cain's picture.

http://www.scoutxing.com/crafts/slides/images/shot2.jpg

(You also might want to add some faint black marks which could appear to be writing into the skin, because they usually do have some faint writing printed on them.)

[Canassa]

Okay, maybe I am asking too much :) but some smoke effects would be cool too.

http://img94.echo.cx/img94/7241/bullet0ds.jpg

Canassa

[FreeLanZer]

Oh yeah..!!! :D :D :D
But lets see what Dani says to it...

[DaniJ]

I'll give the smoke a go but I'm not promising anything. It's not possible to spawn particles from a HUD weapon state atm so I'd have to do it another way.

[Da_maniaC]

Dont know if this was already known, but my Floating Skull seems to have some chuckled off pieces.
IS it intended to look like this? :

http://members.home.nl/djthesp/floating_skull.jpg

Just thought I'd let you know.

[Lord Kaizen]

That's just exactly how mine looks. I believe it is because the model is not fully skinned.

[DaniJ]

As it says on the tin: Alpha meaning not finished :)

Any module with a version number lower than 1.0 should be considered unfinished.

[Da_maniaC]

As it says on the tin: Alpha meaning not finished :)

Any module with a version number lower than 1.0 should be considered unfinished.

Well i never looked at that (Dont have much time remember...).
So i didnt know wether it would be a final model or not.

[DistantJ]

I'll give the smoke a go but I'm not promising anything. It's not possible to spawn particles from a HUD weapon state atm so I'd have to do it another way.

If you were to make smoke effects, it'd have to be very light, far lighter than what you see on the pic cain posted. Sometimes a little smoke comes out but it's usually not much,

[Canassa]

Dani, just an ideia I had, maybe you could make the smoke by rendering a transparent sprite on the screen

OFF-TOPIC:

DistantJ, since you know shotguns I would like to ask you a question: What do you think about the reload animation? Is it realistic? I always wanted to know if someone can reload a double barrel THAT fast.

Thanks,
Canassa

[DistantJ]

Yeah you probably could reload it that fast with practise, it's not really hard to reload a double barrel. It's just amazing he could get the new cartridges out of his pocket so fast, lol, but then again "Doomguy"s other guns don't even need reloading at all.

The unrealistic part is the fact that both barrels shoot at once in the game. That just doesn't happen. You have two barrels so that you can have two shots before you have to reload, and that's how it works. Some have two triggers, one for each barrel, though I'm not sure if you can do both at once or not, but most commonly it's just a single trigger which each time you press it it fires a shot out of one barrel.

[Romanov77]

Dani...when your next masterpiece will be released??
And what about the new doomsday version?? Any key changes??
There is also another texture pack coming???

I expect great things...Im going to double the RAM just for it!!!

[FreeLanZer]

OT:
Remember guys to celebrate with a beer when we reach #4000 posts.. *party* !! :D

[PeoN4Ever]

before #4000 post it has to hit #200 pages
anywho...
I have 2 things...
What is this?
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~dgar/whatisthis.jpg

and what could this mean?
http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~dgar/9.GIF

[DaniJ]

Well the next version of Doomsday will be 1.9 (yes 1.9 not 1.8.7).

The first one, I've no idea looks like a bit of a model.

[PeoN4Ever]

oh well that game ended kinda quick.
Was hoping others would have a crack at em first

[DistantJ]

The first one is part of your Doomguy model. lol

[Gordon228]

the first one is part of a modle and the second one is the new doomsday that will be out soon i hope.

[Romanov77]

When the pack will be released?? I really cant wait!! ;)

[DaniJ]

Yesterday I had the pleasure of trying the new Wacom Intuos 3 (http://www.wacom.com/productinfo/intuos.cfm) tablet. It is far FAR better than my current Trust tablet and was a sheer joy to use. I plan on getting me one of these babys as soon as I can afford it as they will dramticaly improve my productivety. I was only able to spend a couple of hours with it but in that time I finished FOUR 1024x1024 skins for jDRP.

I would love a Cintiq but hey my budget just won't stretch THAT far (£1400) atm.

If any of you are seriously into graphic/texture design I would definetly recomend getting a good tablet.

[Harry]

I would like one of those, there is no way I will be able to get hold of one in quite a few years:(
Which skins did you finish?

[Chilvence]

I would love a Cintiq but hey my budget just won't stretch THAT far (£1400) atm.

Heh I have the irony of knowing that even though I could well have afforded one not less than a month ago, I really dont think I would have justified it. Ah well now I'm skint and need a job anyway so it don't matter much.

But why, why must it make my eyes water so....

[FreeLanZer]

OMG! Prepare the party for page 200 of this thread... *party*

[Skitso]

Pretty popular thread, I'd say. ;)

[Skitso]

*party**flip**flip* 200 *flip**flip**party*

[LStanley]

Skitso... you are a goofball....

btw... if you guys need an extra hand making models... send me a PM and I'll see what i can do... I'm kinda busy to go reading 200 pages of old history... :p

[Mr. Chris]

Umm it's page 80 for me...max out your posts per page on the User CP..

[Lightning Hunter]

Skitso... you are a goofball....

btw... if you guys need an extra hand making models... send me a PM and I'll see what i can do... I'm kinda busy to go reading 200 pages of old history... :p

I'll sum it up for you: Dani has made some cool models and skins. He is still currently making cool models and skins. People argue occasionally here when Dani doesn't release something for a while. That's it I think.

[sirsinalot]

I'll sum it up for you: Dani has made some cool models and skins. He is still currently making cool models and skins. People argue occasionally here when Dani doesn't release something for a while. That's it I think. Haha, I love it. It's funny because it's true. :p Also, though I think you forgot that their is someone helping Dani, he just never really posts here. Kevin Coyle, or something like that.

[Dan1588]

Here we are June, 2005 and Dani has still done nothing. It shouldn't take years to do an update for a resource pack.

[Skitso]

Go home. It's not like he owes you anything.

Moron.

[FreeLanZer]

Yup same here Dan1588... Don't be such a pushover...!

[Lightning Hunter]

People argue occasionally here when Dani doesn't release something for a while.

Here we are June, 2005 and Dani has still done nothing. It shouldn't take years to do an update for a resource pack.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that we are currently in the time phase where Dani will not be releasing anything for a while. So expect the arguments to start soon.

http://glidush2.fotopages.com/images/smilies/argue_mad.gifhttp://glidush2.fotopages.com/images/smilies/argue_mad.gifhttp://glidush2.fotopages.com/images/smilies/argue_mad.gif

[DaniJ]

Not that old chestnut again. You all know my position (I'm currently working on Dday) so please just give me time and I will deliver the goods (jDRP) no matter how long it takes. Just because stuff isn't released doesn't mean nothing is happening, far FAR from it. I've got a little stockpile of things waiting in the wings and pretty soon there will be another big update (including some stuff nobody knows about);)

[ace]

(including some stuff nobody knows about);)

What oh what could that be? Oh, the possibilities are endless... come on, you can tell us, can't you? :D

(EDIT: as for that 200 pages thing, for some reason this post starts the 400th for me... weird.)

[FreeLanZer]

http://www.yaa.dk/doom/xXx.bmp

We can't wait.. *crazy*

[LStanley]

ok well.. I'd like to help.. guess he's gonna have to ask me or something??? I'll just wait... no biggie..

[Lightning Hunter]

Not that old chestnut again. You all know my position (I'm currently working on Dday) so please just give me time and I will deliver the goods (jDRP) no matter how long it takes. Just because stuff isn't released doesn't mean nothing is happening, far FAR from it. I've got a little stockpile of things waiting in the wings and pretty soon there will be another big update (including some stuff nobody knows about);)

No need to explain yourself. Ignoring those comments is the best way to deal with it I think. You can't please everyone!

I look forward to the next release. *thumbs*

[xZAOx]

You can't please everyone!

Sure you can! Didn't you see the "Please everyone and make it all better" button in the control panel?

Geez! Some people just don't pay attention!

*l7*

-Rob

[Ravey]

Not that old chestnut again. You all know my position (I'm currently working on Dday) so please just give me time and I will deliver the goods (jDRP) no matter how long it takes. Just because stuff isn't released doesn't mean nothing is happening, far FAR from it. I've got a little stockpile of things waiting in the wings and pretty soon there will be another big update (including some stuff nobody knows about);)
Also, what does this guy think the alpha pack is for... But I want this new stuff now btw. :(

I believe in you Dani. :D

[Gordon228]

I hope it all comes soon. The better the program the better the game.

[sirsinalot]

Sorry to be one to break the silence, but it's driving me crazy to have it all quiet in here, so I have to ask; is their any update on the status of doomsday 1.9.0, Dani?

[FreeLanZer]

Yeah any updates..?

[FreeLanZer]

*party* *flip* *flip* FLZ @ POST #4000 !!! *flip* *flip* *party*
This is beginning to be a VERY big thread..!!! Great job guys.. :D